The return of classic movement mechanics?

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> > > > > Halo needed to adapt to the future. Every popular shooter game now has sprint, slide, and clamber. Playing a game without those abilities feels old and clunky.
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> > > > Honest question: have you played either Doom (2016) or Doom Eternal? If so, did you find it/them “old and clunky” or otherwise lacking in the gameplay?
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> > > > > How can Halo be a rival to games like Warzone, Apex, and Fortnite?
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> > > > I’m not convinced that Halo should try competing against Battle Royale games. I think it should instead set out to live up to its reputation and legacy as a more traditional FPS. Why do you think Halo should set itself up as a rival to a different genre of games?
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> > > > > They need advanced movement mechanics like them to stay in the fight.
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> > > > ”Advanced movement mechanics” has become a bit of a buzz phrase, hasn’t it? What makes a movement mechanic advanced?
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> > > > > I will still say Halo 3 was the best shooter of all time in my opinion, but going back and playing it now after all these years with technology and games creating better mechanics, now my favorite game feels old and clunky.
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> > > > The absence of mechanics like Sprint in Halo 3 was not due to technological limitations. Sprint was tested and scrapped in Halo 2’s development on the original Xbox because the devs felt it had a negative effect on the gameplay.
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> > > > My condolences for Halo 3 feeling too old and clunky for you. Another honest question: have you played Halo 3 in the Master Chief Collection? If so, have you adjusted the FoV to something higher than the paltry 70(?) degrees it had on the 360? If not and if possible, I highly recommend doing so.
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> > > > > TLDR; Adapt to the future.
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> > > > Sprint has been around for well over a decade. It is not new or innovative, nor is it something to be shoehorned. It perplexes me that many treat it as some inevitability, as if FPS games are ultimately fated to reach a singularity of design.
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> > > > We all want Halo’s next iteration to be different from any previous entry though. Many of us simply find Sprint to be incongruous with Halo’s gameplay style that encourages free movement in combat.
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> > > > Sprint works in games like Gears of War (which came out in ‘06), because the gameplay style centers around cover-based shooting and rushing between cover fits that theme.
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> > > > Sprint works in games like CoD, Battlefield, and virtually every other modern military shooter because their gameplay style centers around a balance between lethality and mobility. ADS and crouching make the player move slower but improves accuracy. Moving (including jumping) reduces accuracy. A mechanic where the player can forgo weapon usage in exchange for faster forward movement fits that theme.
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> > > > But Halo? Halo’s combat can be likened to a dance! You aren’t penalized for strafing or jumping; you’re encouraged to be a moving target! A mechanic that not only restricts weapon usage to move optimally, but also limits that movement to the forward direction is antithetical to Halo’s theme… and those are the two essential aspects of Sprint.
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> > > > Don’t you agree there are better ways to iterate on Halo’s formula?
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> > > Doom was too fast.
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> > So obviously not slow. Did you find it clunky?
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> > What about the other questions in my post? I was looking forward to reading your responses.
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> You have to find that sweet spot between old and new feeling. You don’t want too many new mechanics where the game doesn’t feel like Halo. But at the same time you don’t want it to feel old and clunky. Even though Doom is fast, doesn’t mean its good. Being too fast changes the strategy of the game, and makes people too slippery.

Right, you want it to be fresh in that there are new discoveries to make, experiments to test, and maneuvers to master; but you also want it to be familiar and recognizable. You say you don’t want too many new mechanics, but I’d argue the nature and effects of new mechanics are at least equally important to that balance as the quantity of them.

To clarify, I’m not advocating for Halo adopting Doom-like movement speed. I think Halo Infinite’s movement speed is a good pace. I brought up those games as examples of modern games that lack a sprint mechanic and yet aren’t slow or “clunky”, although I’m still not sure what you mean by clunky in this context.

> Strafing is a main movement mechanic for defense. I felt like it was ruined from H5 thrust ability. The thrust to me was like a get out of jail free card. A way to just run away and escape. And I don’t feel like an escape mechanic was good to put into Halo.

Strafing isn’t what I would consider a mechanic, per se. It’s more of an emergent player behavior made viable by the game’s mechanics (or lack thereof). Thrusters were essentially an attempt to augment and automate strafing. It’s a similar case for Sprint, Clamber, and Slide, isn’t it?

Wasn’t Sprint at least as much “a way to just run away and escape” as Thrusters? Sure, H5’s iteration of Sprint meant you had to break line-of-sight first and it’d delay your shield recharge, but if you could get out of sight you could then move faster than your attackers. If your attackers decided to give chase, they’d also be stopped from recovering shields and would have to stop sprinting (letting you continue to widen the gap) just to take a shot at you. The shield recharge delay (meant to discourage running away) was a double-edged sword, punishing players that pursued as well.

Halo Infinite’s iteration of Sprint thankfully doesn’t have much utility as an escape mechanic, but it doesn’t seem to have much utility at all aside from transitioning into a slide. It feels redundant, involves a significant motion tracker rework (one that I’ve not made a determination on yet, mind you), and takes up an input on the controller/keyboard that could’ve been used for something else.

> To me Halo is all about starting the same as everyone else. And getting in intense 1v1 fights, and having teamwork that will melt people if focused fire correctly.

Those are definitely things I hold as central to Halo’s gameplay identity too, but I think there’s a good bit more to it than that. I’d add to that list (in no particular order):

  • the layered shield/health system - conditional weapon attributes (unshielded headshot modifiers, plasma weapons’ increased damage to shields, etc.) - moving and shooting at the same time without compromising either - on-map weapons, power-ups, etc. for players to scavenge and fight over - a fun and varied weapon/vehicle sandboxEvery iteration of Halo (so far) has kept to at least most of these, but you can see how not adhering to even one impacts the gameplay significantly.

> Your right Halo shouldn’t compete against battle royale games. But at the same time don’t you think Halo should compete with the top shooters. And right now the top shooters are battle royale games.

I think Halo is at its best when it stays true to itself. I also think there are better ways for Halo to adapt than mimicry. People play different games for different experiences, after all.

You didn’t really answer this question and I’m still curious to hear your answer to it: What makes a movement mechanic advanced?

I don’t see how anyone can have an issue with infinite sprint. I honest feel it’s all become a mental thing nothing more. It doesn’t interfere with firefights, and it’s not that fast to where maps are too stretched out to compensate. Some may ask so why have it? I will say sprint gets the nudged to stay due to btb and modern gameplay. It feels weird to play a game fps or 3rd person and not be able to sprint.

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> I don’t see how anyone can have an issue with infinite sprint.

Haha, for a moment I wasn’t sure if you meant Infinite’s iteration of sprint or infinite sprint, as in “you can sprint forever”.

> I honest feel it’s all become a mental thing nothing more.

We’ll put a pin in this one.

> It doesn’t interfere with firefights, and it’s not that fast to where maps are too stretched out to compensate.

The way it’s implemented in Infinite does have a noticeable effect on combat, since sprinting now reveals players on the motion tracker while “walking” players won’t show up until they’re already shooting. You’re right that it doesn’t appear to have the effect on map design that it had on the previous games with it.

> Some may ask so why have it?

I’d rather frame the question as “Why have it instead of something else?” If it’s so negligible a feature that you can’t imagine why anyone would oppose its inclusion, wouldn’t the input on the controller/keyboard be better utilized by something else?

> I will say sprint gets the nudged to stay due to btb and modern gameplay.

You can’t think of anything that would better serve the gameplay and player enjoyment than a ~10% speed boost that restricts you to forward movement, reveals you on enemy motion trackers, and cancels out when you fire your weapon?

> It feels weird to play a game fps or 3rd person and not be able to sprint.

Okay, remember that comment you made that I said we’d put a pin in? Let’s take a look back at that: “I honest feel it’s all become a mental thing nothing more.” Seems relevant here, doesn’t it?

I bet if you increase the base movement to sprint speed ppl will still say we are moving too slow. Look its never been about sprint its been about the animations.

The entire point of Sprinting vs the Classic Jog is to travel from Point A to B at a faster rate. But in Halo Infinite, Sprinting is barely faster than the base movement. So why not remove Sprint so and increase the base movement so that we are fighting at max speed at all times?

Just to clarify I don’t hate sprint and I defiantly don’t want to move “slow” or “walk”, my biggest issue in Halo Infinite is how slow we move, especially when we aren’t sprinting. You have players praising how slow sprint is, because they want to see the animation vs the efficiency of the mechanic.

Or if we are to keep sprint, and keep the movement as slow as it is then 343i is going to have to add man cannons, teleporters, and grav lifts to compensate for the slower movements. Bungie did it in their games and I think 343i should do the same. Especially since they are determined to incorporate sprint into Halo’s mechanics.

Halo isn’t just about its core mechanics its also about map design, interactable, and of course the sandbox.

I just find it funny that answer to the whole thing was to make a sprint that is functionally useless beyond the ability to slide. It pretty much further solidifies that it’s not really about the speed of traversal, or the “risk-reward” factor of being guns ready, or the idea of being a super soldier that should be flying around the map at Mach 3. People just wanted sprint, because it’s sprint and they’re used to sprint.

And since it’s in a new game, I should be able to easily take the approach that this trimmed down sprint is the next evolution of Halo and not the old and dated experiences of Halo 5. If you don’t like it, I guess you’re just a bigot that can’t adapt to change.

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> I just find it funny that answer to the whole thing was to make a sprint that is functionally useless beyond the ability to slide. It pretty much further solidifies that it’s not really about the speed of traversal, or the “risk-reward” factor of being guns ready, or the idea of being a super soldier that should be flying around the map at Mach 3. People just wanted sprint, because it’s sprint and they’re used to sprint.

You would think the enhanced mobility fans and immersion warriors would be having an uproar right about now considering sprint is now completely useless as a speed boost. Yet I haven’t seen one single complaint anywhere. It’s almost as if it was never about speed to begin with. Color me surprised.

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> I just find it funny that answer to the whole thing was to make a sprint that is functionally useless beyond the ability to slide.

It’s hilarious, because I’ve said that this is the only solution outside of removal nearly a decade ago, predating Halo 4, and sprint has become less and less useful with every game ever since. I regret never outright making the prediction “in the next game sprint will have less restrictions, and be half as fast”.

Honestly, I never believed 343i could be so stubborn in their indecisiveness that it’d ever come to this. Like, at every step of the way I either expected them to ditch sprint, or finally say “this is our sprint, we’re proud of it, and we’ve given it the power it deserves”. But I guess this is what the realities of triple-A game development get you when you have a popular mechanic that is completely incompatible with your game.

Sprint is in Halo Infinite, but for the first time I think this is a hollow victory for anyone who wished for its stay.

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> I don’t see how anyone can have an issue with infinite sprint. I honest feel it’s all become a mental thing nothing more. It doesn’t interfere with firefights, and it’s not that fast to where maps are too stretched out to compensate. Some may ask so why have it? I will say sprint gets the nudged to stay due to btb and modern gameplay. It feels weird to play a game fps or 3rd person and not be able to sprint.

The fact that sprint in Halo Infinite is so useless only serves to demonstrate how it has no place in the game. Regarding BTB, with sprint giving only a 10% speed increase, it’s easier than ever to say: “just up the base movement speed”. can anybody object to a 10% increase in BMS? If not, just bump it up and get rid of sprint. Problem solved.

Useless? Halo Infinite seems to be a springboard for more mobility without making standard max speed less useful.

I’ve been seeing a handful of people voicing their concerns about sprint being fairly useless. I would like to propose a simple and fair solution that doesn’t compromise the balance between sprinting and walking.

Add a piece of equipment that you can pick up that boosts sprint speed temporarily when used.

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> Useless? Halo Infinite seems to be a springboard for more mobility without making standard max speed less useful.

This “sprint is a gateway/springboard to mobility” idea doesn’t justify sprint. Nothing about that gateway depends on the existence of sprint.

Let’s talk about slide, because it’s the only mechanic that has anything to do with sprint at all. Here’s the thing: slide does not depend on sprint. Slide doesn’t have to be activated via sprint. There are two relevant steps in Halo Infinite that a player needs to take to slide:

  • Press a button that puts the player in a state where pressing crouch activates slide. - Press crouch to slide.Now, I want you to pay attention to one thing: neither of those steps says anything about sprint. It just happens that the button you press in step 1 activates sprint, but that is completely irrelevant to the functioning of slide. If we remove sprint, we vacate a button. Then we can use that button to reduce sliding to a single step:
  • Press a button to slide.Or if you prefer to maintain a needlessly complicated button combination, you can also do crouch + button = slide.

The sprinting state being used in the implementation of slide doesn’t count anything in favor of sprint, because sprint is unnecessary for implementing slide.

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> > Useless? Halo Infinite seems to be a springboard for more mobility without making standard max speed less useful.
>
> This “sprint is a gateway/springboard to mobility” idea doesn’t justify sprint. Nothing about that gateway depends on the existence of sprint.
>
> Let’s talk about slide, because it’s the only mechanic that has anything to do with sprint at all. Here’s the thing: slide does not depend on sprint. Slide doesn’t have to be activated via sprint. There are two relevant steps in Halo Infinite that a player needs to take to slide:
> - Press a button that puts the player in a state where pressing crouch activates slide. - Press crouch to slide.Now, I want you to pay attention to one thing: neither of those steps says anything about sprint. It just happens that the button you press in step 1 activates sprint, but that is completely irrelevant to the functioning of slide. If we remove sprint, we vacate a button. Then we can use that button to reduce sliding to a single step:
> - Press a button to slide.Or if you prefer to maintain a needlessly complicated button combination, you can also do crouch + button = slide.
>
> The sprinting state being used in the implementation of slide doesn’t count anything in favor of sprint, because sprint is unnecessary for implementing slide.

That would look and feel terrible. So Spartans just slide going zero? That would be pretty asinine.

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> > Useless? Halo Infinite seems to be a springboard for more mobility without making standard max speed less useful.
>
> This “sprint is a gateway/springboard to mobility” idea doesn’t justify sprint. Nothing about that gateway depends on the existence of sprint.
>
> Let’s talk about slide, because it’s the only mechanic that has anything to do with sprint at all. Here’s the thing: slide does not depend on sprint. Slide doesn’t have to be activated via sprint. There are two relevant steps in Halo Infinite that a player needs to take to slide:
> - Press a button that puts the player in a state where pressing crouch activates slide. - Press crouch to slide.Now, I want you to pay attention to one thing: neither of those steps says anything about sprint. It just happens that the button you press in step 1 activates sprint, but that is completely irrelevant to the functioning of slide. If we remove sprint, we vacate a button. Then we can use that button to reduce sliding to a single step:
> - Press a button to slide.Or if you prefer to maintain a needlessly complicated button combination, you can also do crouch + button = slide.
>
> The sprinting state being used in the implementation of slide doesn’t count anything in favor of sprint, because sprint is unnecessary for implementing slide.

This is possible, but slide would become something you just spam endlessly to move faster all the time since your ability to fire is never interrupted. At that point you might as well just have spartans slide endlessly around the map LMAO rip walking welcome to Halo: Sliding Evolved

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> > > Useless? Halo Infinite seems to be a springboard for more mobility without making standard max speed less useful.
> >
> > This “sprint is a gateway/springboard to mobility” idea doesn’t justify sprint. Nothing about that gateway depends on the existence of sprint.
> >
> > Let’s talk about slide, because it’s the only mechanic that has anything to do with sprint at all. Here’s the thing: slide does not depend on sprint. Slide doesn’t have to be activated via sprint. There are two relevant steps in Halo Infinite that a player needs to take to slide:
> > - Press a button that puts the player in a state where pressing crouch activates slide. - Press crouch to slide.Now, I want you to pay attention to one thing: neither of those steps says anything about sprint. It just happens that the button you press in step 1 activates sprint, but that is completely irrelevant to the functioning of slide. If we remove sprint, we vacate a button. Then we can use that button to reduce sliding to a single step:
> > - Press a button to slide.Or if you prefer to maintain a needlessly complicated button combination, you can also do crouch + button = slide.
> >
> > The sprinting state being used in the implementation of slide doesn’t count anything in favor of sprint, because sprint is unnecessary for implementing slide.
>
> That would look and feel terrible. So Spartans just slide going zero? That would be pretty asinine.

Realistically “slide” would just be reworded into “Evade/Thrusters/whatever” and a slightly different animation, since what’s being asked out of slide isn’t “the prerequesite of sprint”, it’s “low profile movement that probably affects geometry.”

And we know an idea of “evade” without sprint isn’t impossible, because Reach did it.

(and honestly just trying to slide going zero would just make you crouch instead - games already figured out the whole momentum thing.)

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> That would look and feel terrible. So Spartans just slide going zero? That would be pretty asinine.

Use a bit of creativity: you can require forward movement if you want to. You can make it look and feel exactly like sliding immediately after activating sprint does now.

Besides that, I don’t actually see how sliding from a stationary position would look or feel horrible. From an animation point of view, you could animate the Spartan take a fast step forward before going into slide. In terms of feel, it’d be about like using Thruster Pack or Evade from zero, which i guess you may feel strongly about, but IMO feels completely fine.

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> This is possible, but slide would become something you just spam endlessly to move faster all the time since your ability to fire is never interrupted. At that point you might as well just have spartans slide endlessly around the map LMAO rip walking welcome to Halo: Sliding Evolved

Ever heard of cooldowns? You could make it as slow as sprint-slide combo in Halo Infinite, if you want to.

Come on people. Could you please put just a little bit of thought into thinking about the implementation before coming up with some easily addressable reason to hate the idea. The reality is that this suggestion is so general that you can make it look, feel, and behave more or less as it does in Halo Infinite, or if you’re not afraid of change, you could actually take it in an entirely different direction and do something much more interesting with it.

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> > I strongly disagree with many siding against for a few valid reasons. I will say both parties have VERY good standing but if it hasn’t been said in the 305 pages.
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> > The sprint trade off is simple. As of RN sprint is a LITTLE TOO SLOW. not much, but a Spartan at fast walk shouldn’t be able to keep pace with a Spartan full sprint. H5 did it best. You start slow then build up speed.
> >
> > In initial sprint you can quickly get back to firing and slide and jump aren’t very far.
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> > At full speed you could slam, slide and jump long distances but reaction time was GREATLY decreased.
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> > I understand half the fan base is VERY against it HOWEVER it made arena in Five arguably one of the most versatile if not comparable to the speed and fluidity of TitanFall2’s MP.
> > H5 had just as much if not MORE Tournaments then H2 ever did.
> >
> > Sprint is a trade off that has advantages and disadvantages, as does any type. Remember the Armor Lock debate. If you knew how and when to use it, you were godly; But not always! And if you didn’t, well you let the forums and matches know.
>
> Sprint is 9% faster than BMS, that’s plenty of an increase
> Makes it so sprint has a useage but isin’t overbearing and forced upon the player, also makes it so maps don’t have to be bloated to compensate
> H5 clearly didn’t do it “best” had it, there wouldn’t be a change in this iteration, I feel it forced to you either sprint or put yourself at a disadvantage.
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> This is a good balance
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> And it didn’t mattre if you knew how to use armour lock or not, it was awful for game play

on a bigger map that takes 30 seconds to go from your spawn to the enemy spawn, a 10% speed increase would mean you are 3 seconds faster. that does not sound like much, but its enough time for roughly to Br kills. Thats the difference between a 1:1 and a 3:1 once you get there. huge effect.
so 10% is enough for BTB effects, but small enough to keep the moment to moment gameplay intact.

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> > That would look and feel terrible. So Spartans just slide going zero? That would be pretty asinine.
>
> Use a bit of creativity: you can require forward movement if you want to. You can make it look and feel exactly like sliding immediately after activating sprint does now.
>
> Besides that, I don’t actually see how sliding from a stationary position would look or feel horrible. From an animation point of view, you could animate the Spartan take a fast step forward before going into slide. In terms of feel, it’d be about like using Thruster Pack or Evade from zero, which i guess you may feel strongly about, but IMO feels completely fine.
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> > This is possible, but slide would become something you just spam endlessly to move faster all the time since your ability to fire is never interrupted. At that point you might as well just have spartans slide endlessly around the map LMAO rip walking welcome to Halo: Sliding Evolved
>
> Ever heard of cooldowns? You could make it as slow as sprint-slide combo in Halo Infinite, if you want to.
>
> Come on people. Could you please put just a little bit of thought into thinking about the implementation before coming up with some easily addressable reason to hate the idea. The reality is that this suggestion is so general that you can make it look, feel, and behave more or less as it does in Halo Infinite, or if you’re not afraid of change, you could actually take it in an entirely different direction and do something much more interesting with it.

So long as the windup for the slide makes your gun unusable, I think this would be fine. Otherwise the functionality is not the same and sliding would become something with too little downside. Sure, you show up on radar, but you move faster AND have a lower profile. The temporary disabling the player’s weapon is a necessary trade off alongside showing up on radar so that you can catch someone executing a slide at the wrong moment.

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> > That would look and feel terrible. So Spartans just slide going zero? That would be pretty asinine.
>
> Use a bit of creativity:

I’d rather just go with the thing that feels good and makes the most sense; sprint.

343i got rid of the problematic, goofy nonsense from Halo 5 that made the game feel wonky. Sprint, slide and mantling make the game feel smoother and feel more alive.

Why not focus on something that actually does fundamentally stop the game from having that beloved classic feeling? ADS.

Sprint, slide and clamber feel pretty great in Infinite and I appreciate them a heck of a lot more here than in Halo 5. This feels like an actual modernized Halo.

People who hate these mechanics but still want to play Infinite might just need to get used to it. It’s supposed to be around for 10 years right?

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> Sprint, slide and clamber feel pretty great in Infinite and I appreciate them a heck of a lot more here than in Halo 5. This feels like an actual modernized Halo.
>
> People who hate these mechanics but still want to play Infinite might just need to get used to it. It’s supposed to be around for 10 years right?

My thoughts exactly. The grapple shot in particular really makes me want to see more limited use movement enhancing equipment.

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> on a bigger map that takes 30 seconds to go from your spawn to the enemy spawn, a 10% speed increase would mean you are 3 seconds faster. that does not sound like much, but its enough time for roughly to Br kills. Thats the difference between a 1:1 and a 3:1 once you get there. huge effect.
> so 10% is enough for BTB effects, but small enough to keep the moment to moment gameplay intact.

I’m not really certain what the three seconds amount to, or is supposed to represent?
Two optimal BR kills?
As in, you get them when you supposidely traverse a BTB map on foot for whatever reason?