The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
6102

> 2535425697773043;6100:
> ok boomer go back to mcc now

The obvious retort would be “Go back to Halo 5 and/or CoD”, but that would add as little to the discussion as your comment.

Instead, how’s about I ask you why you think telling others to just play games they’ve already experienced is acceptable?

Surely you understand that we (like you) want a new game to experience and would like said new game to suit our preferences, right?

You don’t actually believe the caricature of “anti-Sprint” fans being opposed to any and all change and just wanting a carbon copy of Halo 3, do you?

6103

Is there no willingness to compromise, or is the argument to have it completely removed. Because there are two camps, those who like the old mechanics and those who like the new sprint mechanics. Personally I have been a fan of the series since halo 1. But I also enjoyed halo 5. Didnt like halo 4 as much though. I am wondering if both camps have a point they are willing to compromise. Example, sprint exists but its not a major boost of speed and therefore maps should be built around walk speeds since they are close in speed. And maybe having disadvantages to sprint (reduced ability to recharge speeds, limited sprint duration, slow weapon draw). These would be things to encourage sprint only when necessary and not all the time like in COD.

Just spit balling, but I am genuinely curious. Is there any room for compromise, or do people in the sprint removal camp want it removed no compromise?

6104

I really like infinite’s mechanics so far, a few things here and there could change but despite that, it is really cool.

6105

> 2533274821196527;6103:
> Is there no willingness to compromise, or is the argument to have it completely removed. Because there are two camps, those who like the old mechanics and those who like the new sprint mechanics. Personally I have been a fan of the series since halo 1. But I also enjoyed halo 5. Didnt like halo 4 as much though. I am wondering if both camps have a point they are willing to compromise. Example, sprint exists but its not a major boost of speed and therefore maps should be built around walk speeds since they are close in speed. And maybe having disadvantages to sprint (reduced ability to recharge speeds, limited sprint duration, slow weapon draw). These would be things to encourage sprint only when necessary and not all the time like in COD.
>
> Just spit balling, but I am genuinely curious. Is there any room for compromise, or do people in the sprint removal camp want it removed no compromise?

I believe halo 5 was already chance 1 at a real Comprise, and the problem is if people don’t like a mechanic then trying to have some sort of middle ground doesn’t tend to work if that actual problem still exists.

but…like I’ve said in another thread, I do think as of right now infinite might have the best iteration of sprint that I can tolerate since its just like a 9% speed increase, much more minuscule compared to past games but it’s still something I’d ask why even keep sprint or why remove it when you try a compromise. The issue with compromise over a mechanic is someone’s still going to be unhappy with it either because #1 it still exists or #2 if you’re pro for the mechanic it comes off as being nerfed or weaker in its attempt to also appease people who dislike it and there are pro sprint threads or radar posts talking about raising sprints speed up again to fix it. That’s the problem with a compromise, you might make it something more tolerable (and I actually can probably tolerate infinite and have more fun than I did in reach-halo 5) for those who dislike it but you also risk upsetting those who happen to like the mechanic.

6106

> 2533274821196527;6103:
> Is there no willingness to compromise, or is the argument to have it completely removed. Because there are two camps, those who like the old mechanics and those who like the new sprint mechanics. Personally I have been a fan of the series since halo 1. But I also enjoyed halo 5. Didnt like halo 4 as much though. I am wondering if both camps have a point they are willing to compromise. Example, sprint exists but its not a major boost of speed and therefore maps should be built around walk speeds since they are close in speed. And maybe having disadvantages to sprint (reduced ability to recharge speeds, limited sprint duration, slow weapon draw). These would be things to encourage sprint only when necessary and not all the time like in COD.
>
> Just spit balling, but I am genuinely curious. Is there any room for compromise, or do people in the sprint removal camp want it removed no compromise?

There’s always a room for compromise. As of right now, it’s the closest thing we’ll get to basically not having sprint at all. The maps seem to be designed around not using sprint or clamber, if you can successfully do physics exploits.

One compromise I’ve been in favor of for a while is to replace the sprint button with a multi-functional Armor Ability button. So basically, when you pickup an AA, you also get access to secondary functions that complement it, such as Sliding with Sprint or Spartan Charge with Thrusters. It’s a callback to Reach and more in line with Halo’s sandbox core than forcing everyone to use an unchangeable set of abilities. The original problem with Armor Abilities was that the maps and multiplayer modes were designed with them in mind rather than being designed for the core Halo experience first, which continued on into Halo 5. Armor Abilities are better used when adding flavor to Halo rather than being the flavor of Halo.

The competitive playlist in Reach showed us how this series could work going forward to appease to both those in favor and in opposition of sprint, but it was too late by the time several of us realized how important good implementation of AAs were to the future of Halo’s core sandbox. Armor Abilities as map pickups is something 343 hasn’t experimented with until now, but it’s still a ways off from actually making Armor Abilities map pickups. We’re a minority opinion, but I personally love the possibilities Armor Abilities, Loadouts, and Ordnance could bring to Customs. It’s a shame 343 abandoned them in favor of a predetermined toolkit. The return of Equipment is excellent, but the retention of a permanent sprint is incredibly disappointing when I look at it in the eyes of a Custom Games host.

6107

“Explain why you feel Halo has become better or worse with the new mechanics, and provide reasons to support your argument.”

Halo needed to adapt to the future. Every popular shooter game now has sprint, slide, and clamber. Playing a game without those abilities feels old and clunky. How can Halo be a rival to games like Warzone, Apex, and Fortnite? They need advanced movement mechanics like them to stay in the fight.

I will still say Halo 3 was the best shooter of all time in my opinion, but going back and playing it now after all these years with technology and games creating better mechanics, now my favorite game feels old and clunky.

TLDR; Adapt to the future.

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> 2533274833656619;6107:
> “Explain why you feel Halo has become better or worse with the new mechanics, and provide reasons to support your argument.”
>
> Halo needed to adapt to the future. Every popular shooter game now has sprint, slide, and clamber. Playing a game without those abilities feels old and clunky. How can Halo be a rival to games like Warzone, Apex, and Fortnite? They need advanced movement mechanics like them to stay in the fight.
>
> I will still say Halo 3 was the best shooter of all time in my opinion, but going back and playing it now after all these years with technology and games creating better mechanics, now my favorite game feels old and clunky.
>
> TLDR; Adapt to the future.

I’ll counter your evolution argument with Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, Valorant, and Overwatch. Ignoring Activision-Blizzard’s justifiably controversial nature, Overwatch is an incredibly simple shooter at its core. There’s only stick/WASD movement, jump, and crouch that’s universal for all characters, and the game was incredibly successful for a few years. Valorant and Counter-Strike have WASD movement, walk, jump, and crouch, and they’re both incredibly successful shooters, with prize pools occasionally in the millions. Those two games may not exist in the console space, but on PC, they’re probably the most populated shooters from the Americas, especially since they’re both free-to-play.

Instead of comparing Halo’s popularity to Battle Royale shooters, it’s better to compare its popularity to traditional team vs. team shooters. There’s also the “saturated market” argument one could make against sprint, but I’ll leave it to someone else since I’m more focused on Custom Games, the player sandbox, and map design.

6109

Sprint didn’t seem to affect gameplay too much in the tech preview. By that I mean there is very little penalty to sprinting, yet it barely gives you any extra speed anyway.

However, I would like to see maps that rely less on sprint and clamber for the jumps. When you need sprint to make a jump, you are forced to continue looking in that direction for the duration of the jump. When you need clamber to make a jump, you are forced to lower your weapon briefly. This can give enemies the first shot (or two) in a fight over high ground. I would prefer the maps be more traversable with simple jumps or crouch-jumps, so players can continue to stay engaged in combat in parallel with traversal. I think this could be achieved by placing some intermediate jumps. The player can still clamber for easier (or maybe faster) traversal, or they can choose to make an extra jump while simultaneously shooting at their target.

Additionally, it seems like radar was nerfed just to also nerf the new sprint. I would like the radar to pickup base movement speed, as I felt the gameplay could be quite chaotic at times during the PvP portion of the tech preview. Part of this was likely due to the fact that players could move at (basically) full-speed, undetected by radar. This felt particularly messy on Recharge, where there are lots of routes, complex verticality, and poor lines-of sight. I don’t even think players are intending to take advantage of the chaos, there was just a bunch of incidental “flanking”, mutual jump-scares, and vanishing prey. This wouldn’t be such an issue with an organized team, and I personally enjoy some gamemodes that don’t feature radar, but Social Slayer needs classic radar, in my opinion.

Slide is still take it or leave it for me… I get that it opens opportunity for momentum-movement quirks that high-skill players enjoy, but I don’t see why that couldn’t be incorporated through different mechanics. Like, if you could ramp-crouch instead of ramp-slide, then I don’t really think anybody would miss slide. On the other hand, if slide didn’t require exploits to build momentum, but actually intentionally built speed while sliding down slopes, then it should stay. Either way, I don’t think it’s necessary for sprint to be a pre-requisite to slide. That’s just my thoughts.

6110

> 2533274833656619;6107:
> Halo needed to adapt to the future. Every popular shooter game now has sprint, slide, and clamber. Playing a game without those abilities feels old and clunky.

Honest question: have you played either Doom (2016) or Doom Eternal? If so, did you find it/them “old and clunky” or otherwise lacking in the gameplay?

> How can Halo be a rival to games like Warzone, Apex, and Fortnite?

I’m not convinced that Halo should try competing against Battle Royale games. I think it should instead set out to live up to its reputation and legacy as a more traditional FPS. Why do you think Halo should set itself up as a rival to a different genre of games?

> They need advanced movement mechanics like them to stay in the fight.

”Advanced movement mechanics” has become a bit of a buzz phrase, hasn’t it? What makes a movement mechanic advanced?

> I will still say Halo 3 was the best shooter of all time in my opinion, but going back and playing it now after all these years with technology and games creating better mechanics, now my favorite game feels old and clunky.

The absence of mechanics like Sprint in Halo 3 was not due to technological limitations. Sprint was tested and scrapped in Halo 2’s development on the original Xbox because the devs felt it had a negative effect on the gameplay.

My condolences for Halo 3 feeling too old and clunky for you. Another honest question: have you played Halo 3 in the Master Chief Collection? If so, have you adjusted the FoV to something higher than the paltry 70(?) degrees it had on the 360? If not and if possible, I highly recommend doing so.

> TLDR; Adapt to the future.

Sprint has been around for well over a decade. It is not new or innovative, nor is it something to be shoehorned. It perplexes me that many treat it as some inevitability, as if FPS games are ultimately fated to reach a singularity of design.

We all want Halo’s next iteration to be different from any previous entry though. Many of us simply find Sprint to be incongruous with Halo’s gameplay style that encourages free movement in combat.

Sprint works in games like Gears of War (which came out in ‘06), because the gameplay style centers around cover-based shooting and rushing between cover fits that theme.

Sprint works in games like CoD, Battlefield, and virtually every other modern military shooter because their gameplay style centers around a balance between lethality and mobility. ADS and crouching make the player move slower but improves accuracy. Moving (including jumping) reduces accuracy. A mechanic where the player can forgo weapon usage in exchange for faster forward movement fits that theme.

But Halo? Halo’s combat can be likened to a dance! You aren’t penalized for strafing or jumping; you’re encouraged to be a moving target! A mechanic that not only restricts weapon usage to move optimally, but also limits that movement to the forward direction is antithetical to Halo’s theme… and those are the two essential aspects of Sprint.

Don’t you agree there are better ways to iterate on Halo’s formula?

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> 2535440283237581;6095:
> > 2535424388350319;6092:
> > > 2533274905541250;6074:
> > > Move base speed up to sprint speed as there isn’t much difference. Then remove sprint and change the radar back to how it used to work.
> >
> > Must Hurt to talk an walk at the same time do all these people got one track minds… let’s play a game at one speed when we have the option an reasons to play at atleast 2 speeds now luckily we have Sprint. Simply justified (what could possibly be lacking by not being forced to drive all around at Max speed)…
>
> How does characterizing people who don’t prefer Sprint as having a hard time multitasking make any sense? Without Sprint, players are able to multitask more often because they don’t have to choose between weapon usage and optimal movement (and can look in a different direction than they’re moving at all times). Sprint actively limits how players can multitask.
>
> Having variable movement speeds isn’t the issue, as players obviously move slower when crouched (and can traditionally move slower while standing by simply not pushing the analog stick all the way). I understand that last part isn’t really applicable with M&K, but you’re acting as though moving at Infinite’s sprint speed would be like “driving” a race car when it’s a ~10% increase from base movement.

Say what you want! But No hard feelings I have a one track mind when doing some tasks in my life as well but this game isn’t K-12 Common Core!!!
play Halo Wars 2 if you need to a more clear cut example of why multitasking can add depth to a real time game… ((if all your units moved as fast as a warthog))… Possible Base effect the warthog no longer should be the scout this unit looses value for said option.
Halo infinite the option: everyone moves at Max speed ok so now l (me an others) loose… doesn’t feel like this could be me in that suit anymore. But hey I could decide to walk but then I may have to watch my back more frequently how disadvantageous could this be…

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> 2535440283237581;6110:
> > 2533274833656619;6107:
> > Halo needed to adapt to the future. Every popular shooter game now has sprint, slide, and clamber. Playing a game without those abilities feels old and clunky.
>
> Honest question: have you played either Doom (2016) or Doom Eternal? If so, did you find it/them “old and clunky” or otherwise lacking in the gameplay?
>
>
> > How can Halo be a rival to games like Warzone, Apex, and Fortnite?
>
> I’m not convinced that Halo should try competing against Battle Royale games. I think it should instead set out to live up to its reputation and legacy as a more traditional FPS. Why do you think Halo should set itself up as a rival to a different genre of games?
>
>
> > They need advanced movement mechanics like them to stay in the fight.
>
> ”Advanced movement mechanics” has become a bit of a buzz phrase, hasn’t it? What makes a movement mechanic advanced?
>
>
> > I will still say Halo 3 was the best shooter of all time in my opinion, but going back and playing it now after all these years with technology and games creating better mechanics, now my favorite game feels old and clunky.
>
> The absence of mechanics like Sprint in Halo 3 was not due to technological limitations. Sprint was tested and scrapped in Halo 2’s development on the original Xbox because the devs felt it had a negative effect on the gameplay.
>
> My condolences for Halo 3 feeling too old and clunky for you. Another honest question: have you played Halo 3 in the Master Chief Collection? If so, have you adjusted the FoV to something higher than the paltry 70(?) degrees it had on the 360? If not and if possible, I highly recommend doing so.
>
>
> > TLDR; Adapt to the future.
>
> Sprint has been around for well over a decade. It is not new or innovative, nor is it something to be shoehorned. It perplexes me that many treat it as some inevitability, as if FPS games are ultimately fated to reach a singularity of design.
>
> We all want Halo’s next iteration to be different from any previous entry though. Many of us simply find Sprint to be incongruous with Halo’s gameplay style that encourages free movement in combat.
>
> Sprint works in games like Gears of War (which came out in ‘06), because the gameplay style centers around cover-based shooting and rushing between cover fits that theme.
>
> Sprint works in games like CoD, Battlefield, and virtually every other modern military shooter because their gameplay style centers around a balance between lethality and mobility. ADS and crouching make the player move slower but improves accuracy. Moving (including jumping) reduces accuracy. A mechanic where the player can forgo weapon usage in exchange for faster forward movement fits that theme.
>
> But Halo? Halo’s combat can be likened to a dance! You aren’t penalized for strafing or jumping; you’re encouraged to be a moving target! A mechanic that not only restricts weapon usage to move optimally, but also limits that movement to the forward direction is antithetical to Halo’s theme… and those are the two essential aspects of Sprint.
>
> Don’t you agree there are better ways to iterate on Halo’s formula?

Doom was too fast.

6113

> 2533274833656619;6112:
> > 2535440283237581;6110:
> > > 2533274833656619;6107:
> > > Halo needed to adapt to the future. Every popular shooter game now has sprint, slide, and clamber. Playing a game without those abilities feels old and clunky.
> >
> > Honest question: have you played either Doom (2016) or Doom Eternal? If so, did you find it/them “old and clunky” or otherwise lacking in the gameplay?
> >
> >
> > > How can Halo be a rival to games like Warzone, Apex, and Fortnite?
> >
> > I’m not convinced that Halo should try competing against Battle Royale games. I think it should instead set out to live up to its reputation and legacy as a more traditional FPS. Why do you think Halo should set itself up as a rival to a different genre of games?
> >
> >
> > > They need advanced movement mechanics like them to stay in the fight.
> >
> > ”Advanced movement mechanics” has become a bit of a buzz phrase, hasn’t it? What makes a movement mechanic advanced?
> >
> >
> > > I will still say Halo 3 was the best shooter of all time in my opinion, but going back and playing it now after all these years with technology and games creating better mechanics, now my favorite game feels old and clunky.
> >
> > The absence of mechanics like Sprint in Halo 3 was not due to technological limitations. Sprint was tested and scrapped in Halo 2’s development on the original Xbox because the devs felt it had a negative effect on the gameplay.
> >
> > My condolences for Halo 3 feeling too old and clunky for you. Another honest question: have you played Halo 3 in the Master Chief Collection? If so, have you adjusted the FoV to something higher than the paltry 70(?) degrees it had on the 360? If not and if possible, I highly recommend doing so.
> >
> >
> > > TLDR; Adapt to the future.
> >
> > Sprint has been around for well over a decade. It is not new or innovative, nor is it something to be shoehorned. It perplexes me that many treat it as some inevitability, as if FPS games are ultimately fated to reach a singularity of design.
> >
> > We all want Halo’s next iteration to be different from any previous entry though. Many of us simply find Sprint to be incongruous with Halo’s gameplay style that encourages free movement in combat.
> >
> > Sprint works in games like Gears of War (which came out in ‘06), because the gameplay style centers around cover-based shooting and rushing between cover fits that theme.
> >
> > Sprint works in games like CoD, Battlefield, and virtually every other modern military shooter because their gameplay style centers around a balance between lethality and mobility. ADS and crouching make the player move slower but improves accuracy. Moving (including jumping) reduces accuracy. A mechanic where the player can forgo weapon usage in exchange for faster forward movement fits that theme.
> >
> > But Halo? Halo’s combat can be likened to a dance! You aren’t penalized for strafing or jumping; you’re encouraged to be a moving target! A mechanic that not only restricts weapon usage to move optimally, but also limits that movement to the forward direction is antithetical to Halo’s theme… and those are the two essential aspects of Sprint.
> >
> > Don’t you agree there are better ways to iterate on Halo’s formula?
>
> Doom was too fast.

So obviously not slow. Did you find it clunky?

What about the other questions in my post? I was looking forward to reading your responses.

6114

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> It adds depth by adding an option that gives you a disadvantage and an advantage. You get increased movement speed at the penalty of not being able to look around freely and shoot right away.

More options doesn’t automatically mean increased depth. Even if those options have advantages and disadvantages.
Increased depth comes from added viable choices in given situations. If new options invalidate more options than it adds, you’ve decreased the depth.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> This is good because it rewards game awareness and increases the skill ceiling. There, easily explained. As I said, it’s very simple but you aren’t even bothering to give it nay thought.

The awareness you use for sprinting is the same as you’d have without sprint, and sprint doesn’t require anything else from the player other than pressing a button.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> Grand strategy games have some of the biggest audiences so I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Please see League of Legends and or Dota 2. A games with more depth tend to have greater longevity.

Grand Strategy is a genre containing large scale strategy games, can be in both battlefield as well as in terms of time. Titles lite Crusaders Kings, Total War and Europa Universalis belong to this genre.
This genre does not in any way hold the same scale of population as the other genres.

LoL and Dota have absolutely nothing to do with Grand Strategy games, they’re Mobas, Massive Online Battle Arena games.

Yes, more depth in general leads to longer longevity.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> SOME games do do fine without it but that doesn’t mean it’s bad to add.

Of course it can be bad to add.
Bungie cut it from Halo 2 because they felt it caused pacing issues.
Doom 2016’s development was completely restarted when they started calling their game Call of Doom, and instead went in a completely different direction, with gameplay which would be different if it featured sprint due to the current gameplay loop.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> “Sure you can, but that design have other requirements which some do not like making it into the maps.
> Noticed anything else people have been saying?”
>
> Completely meaningless statement.

No it’s not.
If one of sprint’s effect on maps is an overall larger map, smaller close quarter maps are not made.
Leading to the smallest maps being in the medium size. For instance, some people dislike the absense of the truly small maps.
Or, for instance longer corridors, less map complexity and so forth.
We haven’t really seen that much utilities on the maps to traverse them, such as man cannons and teleporters in the newer titles, things which were a little more common in the original Trilogy.

Also, you didn’t bring up anything else than that of map design, henche why I asked if you happened to notice something else that was vrought up.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> There isn’t Irony here you just aren’t thinking very much. I like halo 5 because it is new and innovative.

Of course there is.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> I like infinite because it will be new and innovative.

Innovative?
Scaling back on what Halo 5 had, removed some of it. Re-introduced equipment from Halo 3, and that’s basically it.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> You don’t like that halo is new and innovative so why would you want them to make a new halo that is the same as the old halos?

“You oppose sprint, therefore you don’t want new and innovative stuff, you only want old games remade.”

Impressive, and classic.
Pray tell, how exactly did you come to that conclusion?

Because I’ve got stuff which says otherwise.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> That doesn’t make any sense. I don’t want halo infinite to be like 5, I want it to be a new experience.

Yet here we are with you advocating copying game mechanics from other games, because… they’re “essential”.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> Um, pretty sure you don’t know how development works. We aren’t all still playing Pong because technology has advanced… so this was a weird statement.

And I’m pretty sure you do not read properly, or just make wild swings now.
A decade is ten years, current year is 2021, so, what technological advancements have we done since 2011, which allow new mechanics in Halo? In Games overall?

The last big thing has been motion capture, and that in itself has been isolated to niche games.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> Advances in gaming technology (CPUs and GPUs) to add things like sprinting and sliding and jumping. I thought that would be self-explanatory. Seriously, just think about it for a second.

So, what advances in the CPU and GPU, has allowed Programming languages to disable user features, change animation and increase/decrease/change variables or transformation/traversal of specific axises in a certain manner?

Sprinting in programming is merely conditions.

When you press a button
Check if the sprint bool is true, if it isn’t, set it true, change the parameters you want to change, then proceed.

It uses basically the most basic of programming functions, and you could not have games without any of those.

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> I’ve already dived pretty deep simply put, sprinting adds more depth which is good.

A few sentences?
Depth in gameplay is good, but your explanation of how sprint adds depth is non-existant

> 2533274856169067;6069:
> Isn’t that your argument? You just want halo to stay the same without innovating or changing? Why do you even want a new halo?

No, it isn’t, I’m not talking about “evolution”, “growing up”, “progress” and bringing in how other popular games use specific mechanics, and that they’re essential to the modern game etc, and as such Halo needs them.

As far as wanting “the same game and nothing new”, going to link this for the second time in this response.

> 2533274825992292;6082:
> H5 had just as much if not MORE Tournaments then H2 ever did.

Mkay.
Halo 2 was there with the rise of popularity of e-sports, with tournaments done with a third party holding the tournaments.
Halo 5 came into an already flourishing e-sports business, with the HCS, a tournament series created and maintained by i343.

> 2533274825992292;6082:
> Sprint is a trade off that has advantages and disadvantages, as does any type. Remember the Armor Lock debate. If you knew how and when to use it, you were godly; But not always! And if you didn’t, well you let the forums and matches know.

Yeah I remember, and how this is phrased, it wouldn’t have mattered if Armor Lock had killed everyone nearby. Because it still had the disadvantage of being completely stationary.

> 2533274833656619;6112:
> Doom was too fast.

Doom was too fast for you to notice if it was old and clunky?

How about this, when you’re not sprinting in Halo 4 or 5, does it feel old and clunky?

6115

> 2535424388350319;6111:
> > 2535440283237581;6095:
> > > 2535424388350319;6092:
> > > > 2533274905541250;6074:
> > > > Move base speed up to sprint speed as there isn’t much difference. Then remove sprint and change the radar back to how it used to work.
> > >
> > > Must Hurt to talk an walk at the same time do all these people got one track minds…
> >
> > How does characterizing people who don’t prefer Sprint as having a hard time multitasking make any sense? Without Sprint, players are able to multitask more often because they don’t have to choose between weapon usage and optimal movement (and can look in a different direction than they’re moving at all times). Sprint actively limits how players can multitask.
>
> Say what you want! But No hard feelings I have a one track mind when doing some tasks in my life as well but this game isn’t K-12 Common Core!!!
> play Halo Wars 2 if you need to a more clear cut example of why multitasking can add depth to a real time game… ((if all your units moved as fast as a warthog))… Possible Base effect the warthog no longer should be the scout this unit looses value for said option.
> Halo infinite the option: everyone moves at Max speed ok so now l (me an others) loose… doesn’t feel like this could be me in that suit anymore. But hey I could decide to walk but then I may have to watch my back more frequently how disadvantageous could this be…

I’m having a hard time understanding you, honestly. Your initial comment painted Sprint as a mechanic that requires multitasking. I asked how.

Your reply isn’t an argument for how Sprint promotes multitasking. It’s an argument for why multitasking adds depth to gameplay (which is not something I disputed), sandwiched between “Don’t feel bad, I too have a hard time multitasking sometimes!” and… Well, I’m not sure what you were trying to say with the last bit.

6116

I don’t mind sprint in its current form as a standalone mechanic. It removes the ability to shoot instantly while giving a very slight speed increase. But the way it works in conjunction with the radar makes it nearly useless except to access slides. Sprint isint the problem it’s the awful radar design.

6117

> 2535440283237581;6113:
> > 2533274833656619;6112:
> > > 2535440283237581;6110:
> > > > 2533274833656619;6107:
> > > > Halo needed to adapt to the future. Every popular shooter game now has sprint, slide, and clamber. Playing a game without those abilities feels old and clunky.
> > >
> > > Honest question: have you played either Doom (2016) or Doom Eternal? If so, did you find it/them “old and clunky” or otherwise lacking in the gameplay?
> > >
> > >
> > > > How can Halo be a rival to games like Warzone, Apex, and Fortnite?
> > >
> > > I’m not convinced that Halo should try competing against Battle Royale games. I think it should instead set out to live up to its reputation and legacy as a more traditional FPS. Why do you think Halo should set itself up as a rival to a different genre of games?
> > >
> > >
> > > > They need advanced movement mechanics like them to stay in the fight.
> > >
> > > ”Advanced movement mechanics” has become a bit of a buzz phrase, hasn’t it? What makes a movement mechanic advanced?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I will still say Halo 3 was the best shooter of all time in my opinion, but going back and playing it now after all these years with technology and games creating better mechanics, now my favorite game feels old and clunky.
> > >
> > > The absence of mechanics like Sprint in Halo 3 was not due to technological limitations. Sprint was tested and scrapped in Halo 2’s development on the original Xbox because the devs felt it had a negative effect on the gameplay.
> > >
> > > My condolences for Halo 3 feeling too old and clunky for you. Another honest question: have you played Halo 3 in the Master Chief Collection? If so, have you adjusted the FoV to something higher than the paltry 70(?) degrees it had on the 360? If not and if possible, I highly recommend doing so.
> > >
> > >
> > > > TLDR; Adapt to the future.
> > >
> > > Sprint has been around for well over a decade. It is not new or innovative, nor is it something to be shoehorned. It perplexes me that many treat it as some inevitability, as if FPS games are ultimately fated to reach a singularity of design.
> > >
> > > We all want Halo’s next iteration to be different from any previous entry though. Many of us simply find Sprint to be incongruous with Halo’s gameplay style that encourages free movement in combat.
> > >
> > > Sprint works in games like Gears of War (which came out in ‘06), because the gameplay style centers around cover-based shooting and rushing between cover fits that theme.
> > >
> > > Sprint works in games like CoD, Battlefield, and virtually every other modern military shooter because their gameplay style centers around a balance between lethality and mobility. ADS and crouching make the player move slower but improves accuracy. Moving (including jumping) reduces accuracy. A mechanic where the player can forgo weapon usage in exchange for faster forward movement fits that theme.
> > >
> > > But Halo? Halo’s combat can be likened to a dance! You aren’t penalized for strafing or jumping; you’re encouraged to be a moving target! A mechanic that not only restricts weapon usage to move optimally, but also limits that movement to the forward direction is antithetical to Halo’s theme… and those are the two essential aspects of Sprint.
> > >
> > > Don’t you agree there are better ways to iterate on Halo’s formula?
> >
> > Doom was too fast.
>
> So obviously not slow. Did you find it clunky?
>
> What about the other questions in my post? I was looking forward to reading your responses.

You have to find that sweet spot between old and new feeling. You don’t want too many new mechanics where the game doesn’t feel like Halo. But at the same time you don’t want it to feel old and clunky. Even though Doom is fast, doesn’t mean its good. Being too fast changes the strategy of the game, and makes people too slippery.

Strafing is a main movement mechanic for defense. I felt like it was ruined from H5 thrust ability. The thrust to me was like a get out of jail free card. A way to just run away and escape. And I don’t feel like an escape mechanic was good to put into Halo.

To me Halo is all about starting the same as everyone else. And getting in intense 1v1 fights, and having teamwork that will melt people if focused fire correctly.

Your right Halo shouldn’t compete against battle royale games. But at the same time don’t you think Halo should compete with the top shooters. And right now the top shooters are battle royale games.

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> > > 2533274833656619;6112:
> > > > 2535440283237581;6110:
> > > > > 2533274833656619;6107:
> > > > > Halo needed to adapt to the future. Every popular shooter game now has sprint, slide, and clamber. Playing a game without those abilities feels old and clunky.
> > > >
> > > > Honest question: have you played either Doom (2016) or Doom Eternal? If so, did you find it/them “old and clunky” or otherwise lacking in the gameplay?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > How can Halo be a rival to games like Warzone, Apex, and Fortnite?
> > > >
> > > > I’m not convinced that Halo should try competing against Battle Royale games. I think it should instead set out to live up to its reputation and legacy as a more traditional FPS. Why do you think Halo should set itself up as a rival to a different genre of games?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > They need advanced movement mechanics like them to stay in the fight.
> > > >
> > > > ”Advanced movement mechanics” has become a bit of a buzz phrase, hasn’t it? What makes a movement mechanic advanced?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I will still say Halo 3 was the best shooter of all time in my opinion, but going back and playing it now after all these years with technology and games creating better mechanics, now my favorite game feels old and clunky.
> > > >
> > > > The absence of mechanics like Sprint in Halo 3 was not due to technological limitations. Sprint was tested and scrapped in Halo 2’s development on the original Xbox because the devs felt it had a negative effect on the gameplay.
> > > >
> > > > My condolences for Halo 3 feeling too old and clunky for you. Another honest question: have you played Halo 3 in the Master Chief Collection? If so, have you adjusted the FoV to something higher than the paltry 70(?) degrees it had on the 360? If not and if possible, I highly recommend doing so.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > TLDR; Adapt to the future.
> > > >
> > > > Sprint has been around for well over a decade. It is not new or innovative, nor is it something to be shoehorned. It perplexes me that many treat it as some inevitability, as if FPS games are ultimately fated to reach a singularity of design.
> > > >
> > > > We all want Halo’s next iteration to be different from any previous entry though. Many of us simply find Sprint to be incongruous with Halo’s gameplay style that encourages free movement in combat.
> > > >
> > > > Sprint works in games like Gears of War (which came out in ‘06), because the gameplay style centers around cover-based shooting and rushing between cover fits that theme.
> > > >
> > > > Sprint works in games like CoD, Battlefield, and virtually every other modern military shooter because their gameplay style centers around a balance between lethality and mobility. ADS and crouching make the player move slower but improves accuracy. Moving (including jumping) reduces accuracy. A mechanic where the player can forgo weapon usage in exchange for faster forward movement fits that theme.
> > > >
> > > > But Halo? Halo’s combat can be likened to a dance! You aren’t penalized for strafing or jumping; you’re encouraged to be a moving target! A mechanic that not only restricts weapon usage to move optimally, but also limits that movement to the forward direction is antithetical to Halo’s theme… and those are the two essential aspects of Sprint.
> > > >
> > > > Don’t you agree there are better ways to iterate on Halo’s formula?
> > >
> > > Doom was too fast.
> >
> > So obviously not slow. Did you find it clunky?
> >
> > What about the other questions in my post? I was looking forward to reading your responses.
>
> You have to find that sweet spot between old and new feeling. You don’t want too many new mechanics where the game doesn’t feel like Halo. But at the same time you don’t want it to feel old and clunky. Even though Doom is fast, doesn’t mean its good. Being too fast changes the strategy of the game, and makes people too slippery.
>
> Your right Halo shouldn’t compete against battle royale games. But at the same time don’t you think Halo should compete with the top shooters. And right now the top shooters are battle royale games.

If Halo did try to compete with Battle Royales because they were the top shooters, it’d be lost in the sea of saturation in the same way it became “lost” when it chased after the “Advanced Movement” shooter hype. When people talk “advanced movement,” it’s always Call of Duty or Titanfall. Never Halo.

EDIT: To respond to your old and new feeling part, so what is a good shooter to you? Just because I personally don’t like Valorant or Rainbow Six Siege’s gameplay, that doesn’t mean they’re not good shooters.
EDIT 2: I guess I’ll elaborate on this point. Having sprint as a core mechanic drastically changed the way maps were designed in Halo Reach - 5 into a way that maps didn’t feel like they belonged in Halo. Maps in 4v4 playlists went from (typically) small open areas into medium-sized lane maps, and map add-ons such as gravity lifts, teleports, or man cannons were lost in the shift towards a sprint-based design. Having sprint doesn’t necessarily mean that those add-ons cannot exist on a map, but it did limit Halo’s map design in such a way that encouraged lane traversal and more long-range shooting so that sprint had an actual purpose in the game’s multiplayer and map design.
EDIT 3: In the 4v4 maps that weren’t small arenas in the original Halo trilogy, they had vehicles in addition to the other add-ons to facilitate travel and protection, which sprint didn’t have to negate, but did. In Reach through 5, none of the 4v4 maps off the top of my mind seemed to use vehicles because of Sprint taking precedence over other means of traversal.

6119

Halo doesn’t need to be popular to be good.

6120

I mean this discussion is somewhat over since the closed beta came out and I got to play it last weekend. I don’t think they’ll change much anymore at this point.
Sprint is still there but a lot has been cut out and honestly it felt pretty amazing. Movements are great, you still get sprint you still get clamber, but no ground pound, spartan charge or thrusters - at least not in this closed beta. The hook was an absolute game changer and added a completely new layer to the game and for me it felt like true Halo. The movement felt absolutely solid and the weapon handling felt better than halo 5 and by far better than previous Halos. Since this is not a sound mixing thread I’m going to stick to movement only but my god that sniper sounds -Yoink!- and the new pistol is absolutely fantastic and that menu soundtrack made me change my underwear.
After all that, 343 is on the right track imo and with this adaption as of closed beta status found a great middle ground between new and classic movements. I’m actually excited for this game now to be honest. The bots were amazingly good for AI only and I am pumped about how the hook will work out in campaign and MP.

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> > ok boomer go back to mcc now
>
> We could just as easily tell you to play Halo Reach-5 for eternity, and leave it at that. But we don’t. We use logic to elaborate on how Sprint and other “advanced” movement mechanics are destructive mechanics within Halo.

Ok boomer