The return of classic movement mechanics?

> 2533274968707582;579:
> > 2533274795123910;577:
> > “The Mjolnir MK7 has built in mechanical weights which move around the waist and chest along with leg algorithms, all of which allow the user to maintain top possible speed and have the upper torso free for other use, mainly combat.
> >
> > Users have succesfully held consistent top speed without harm for the user, while the the same time been able to accurately hit all targets presented to them during multiple test runs.”
> >
> > On another note, a super advanced exoskeleton power armor with AI docking and controll which doesn’t have aim correction and auto targeting…
>
> Just goes to show that even for people who really want to justify sprint with superficial lore arguments, they don’t know much about the Halo universe to properly use them.

I don’t think that was an actual quote from one of the Halo novels so much as him writing a plausible lore-friendly explanation for simply increasing BMS.

> 2535440283237581;581:
> > 2533274968707582;579:
> > > 2533274795123910;577:
> > > “The Mjolnir MK7 has built in mechanical weights which move around the waist and chest along with leg algorithms, all of which allow the user to maintain top possible speed and have the upper torso free for other use, mainly combat.
> > >
> > > Users have succesfully held consistent top speed without harm for the user, while the the same time been able to accurately hit all targets presented to them during multiple test runs.”
> > >
> > > On another note, a super advanced exoskeleton power armor with AI docking and controll which doesn’t have aim correction and auto targeting…
> >
> > Just goes to show that even for people who really want to justify sprint with superficial lore arguments, they don’t know much about the Halo universe to properly use them.
>
> I don’t think that was an actual quote from one of the Halo novels so much as him writing a plausible lore-friendly explanation for simply increasing BMS.

Yeah I should probably have put in a disclaimer.
Sorry TryHardFan

Why is this thread still going if there is no solution? Someone else mentioned that there was no solution… then why keep feeding the debate? It’s killing the hype of the game.

> 2533274795123910;582:
> > 2535440283237581;581:
> > I don’t think that was an actual quote from one of the Halo novels so much as him writing a plausible lore-friendly explanation for simply increasing BMS.
>
> Yeah I should probably have put in a disclaimer.
> Sorry TryHardFan

Well, now I feel like an idiot.

> 2533274836395701;569:
> While you could remove reloading from utility weapons just fine i think, i feel the mechanic is a well awarded reprieve from power weapons. If reloading wasn’t a thing then what would you set the ammo capacity at? just the clip or higher? i think limiting a power weapon to just the clip or uncapping the ammo on things like rocket launcher or sniper or any power weapon could be bad for gameplay. Sword could work in Halo 2 with infinite ammo due to the close range restriction, even then i feel it’s better suited to an ammo capacity.
>
> Players usually rotate into power weapons, go out of their way, cease playing against a team sometimes to pick it up. If a sniper only gave you 4 shots before replacing either there will be less sniping (if spawn time is kept the same) or more dead time picking up ammo (if it spawns quicker).
>
> While you could do away with reloading i don’t think it would serve to benefit the gameplay established in Halo. Halo plays well with those little moments of vulnerability like switching weapons, picking up weapons, reloading or throwing a grenade, as it better -Yoink!- outplay and prioritization; like rock paper scissors. I don’t think an escape mechanic like sprint no matter how it is split, -Yoink!- in the nuance of confrontation or interaction with the opposing team like small pockets of vulnerability do.

With the Rocket Launcher, you could tune the fire rate if you’re worried about the weapon becoming too powerful. I feel like the CE version is already slow enough that if you actually manage to get in the third shot, either you’re a really bad shot, or your opponents are. With the Sniper Rifle that’s not an option, but provided the weapon is difficult enough to use, I’m not sure if being able to fire eight shots in a row actually poses that big of an issue. Of course things change if it’s anything like the Halo 4/5 Sniper Rifle, but I think we can take it for granted that the weapons should be well designed to begin with. I also believe tweaking weapon spawn times are a much better option than you give them credit for. I don’t see how picking up ammo is dead time as long as you’re sensible about spawn locations, and try to avoid freebie power weapons as much as possible.

With that said, I wouldn’t necessarily go as far as to make the argument that reloading is a completely useless mechanic. The Sniper Rifle seems like an example of a weapon, where it is might be useful for controlling the power of the weapon. What I would say is that reloading is not a necessary mechanic for the vast majority of weapons. Heck, a portion of the Halo sandbox has traditionally not even had a reload mechanic, relying entirely on overheating. You brought up utility weapons (and I’d actually extend that to probably most niche weapons), and I think those are a prime example of weapons that don’t necessarily need a reload mechanic. It’d certainly change how the game plays, namely how the pacing works when players don’t need to slow down to reload, but I don’t see why that would be any worse.

I’m not awfully well prepared to have this discussion, because while it’s something that pops to my mind every now and then (mainly when people bring up the role of reloading in gameplay), I haven’t got to give it an awful lot of thought. It’s a fun curiosity that’d almost certainly get shot down by most people.

> 2535440283237581;573:
> I’d be interested in reading that argument. It’s something I’m rather on the fence about and probably have overlooked some aspects of the mechanic/it’s effects.

Eh, it’s not much more than what I’ve already said above and in the original post. While writing the above paragraphs, I came to the conclusion that the crux of it is that reloading is more of an alternative tool for the designer than an essential tactical element for the player. It gives more control over the power levels of weapons, and can help with the pacing of gameplay, but in many cases one could probably do equally well without it.

> 2533274825830455;567:
> > 2533274885314026;563:
> > What is classic gameplay? Just Halo without sprint? If thats the case personally I’d like to play a game based of H2 rather than H3.
>
> Generally speaking, it’s Halo where you spawn with the minimal set of abilities (i.e., like you spawn in the original trilogy), and any items that give you more power are found on the map. Beyond that, you probably get a lot of differing views on what items should spawn on the maps aside from the standard weapons and power-ups.
>
> In any case, I think the important point is that the gameplay doesn’t need to be based on any particular game. Just like Halo CE and 2 (and Halo 3 slightly less), actually feel significantly different, so could any new game with classic gameplay. These games do many things a bit differently. I think some do some things better, and others do other things better, and there are some things I don’t think any game does in perfectly satisfactory way. That’s why I’d rather see a game that takes the best parts of each game, and improves on them, rather than being distinguishable as being based on any single game.

Whatever direction 343 choose to take, they’ll automatically be compared to the game thats closest to it gameplay wise. The problem lies more with what to change. Do you take a drastic approach and change a base mechanic like H5 or subtle changes like the transition from H2 to H3.

Unfortunately the best part of each game differs from person to person. If everyone had the same view on what defined Halo, 343 wouldn’t be getting so much hate all the time. I do agree though , although we probably differ on which parts to take from each game.

> 2533274829253443;583:
> Why is this thread still going if there is no solution? Someone else mentioned that there was no solution… then why keep feeding the debate? It’s killing the hype of the game.

I agree that is maybe killing it down at the moment. I would say there is a solution and thats trying to compromise into turning the game into a classic hybrid. Take out SA, upped the BMS speed, make Infinite lean towards less competitive and more casual gameplay. Halo 5 out of all the games in my opinion is was made heavily around esports. For ideas to make the game still appeal to modern players with new elements then trying to bring back ideas like AA or Equipment(which they maybe could but that’s a idea) and make them revolve around the “golden triangle”.

TLDR; Make the game lean towards the classics, especially Halo 3 in terms of ideas and how to implement them to modern players without ruining the “golden triangle”.

> 2533274829253443;583:
> Why is this thread still going if there is no solution? Someone else mentioned that there was no solution… then why keep feeding the debate? It’s killing the hype of the game.

Solution to what exactly?
Why not feed it?
Also, hype? We’ve seen a tech demo, they have barely begun. If you feel like this thread is killing the hype for you, then perhaps it’s time to go dark?

> 2533274968707582;584:
> > 2533274795123910;582:
> > > 2535440283237581;581:
> > > I don’t think that was an actual quote from one of the Halo novels so much as him writing a plausible lore-friendly explanation for simply increasing BMS.
> >
> > Yeah I should probably have put in a disclaimer.
> > Sorry TryHardFan
>
> Well, now I feel like an idiot.

It’ll pass when you forget about it.

> 2533274829253443;583:
> > 2533274829253443;583:
> > Why is this thread still going if there is no solution? Someone else mentioned that there was no solution… then why keep feeding the debate? It’s killing the hype of the game.

Its more a thing of people don’t want to compromise and decide, you’re either for sprint or against it. Both sides haven’t budged on their view point. Either way though 343 will decide whats in the game not us lol.

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> > 2535440283237581;578:
> > > 2535449076192416;576:
> > > > 2535416198868046;574:
> > > > > 2533274876601129;571:
> > > > > The only thing in terms of abilities they should keep from Halo 5 is the clamber. I know that Halo has had a certain skill in getting to hard to reach places, but you could make a lot of really creative areas for hiding secrets, easter eggs, skulls and weapons with the clamber system.
> > > > >
> > > > > And come on, a genetically enhanced super solider who can’t jump up a ledge…
> >
> > Well, the “Spartans should be able to sprint” argument is about how they should be able to move, without regard for how that affects gameplay. It’s an appeal to “realism” when talking about a science-fiction video game and those that use this argument usually aren’t willing to fully commit it (for what I can only assume are gameplay-related concerns, which makes their position self-defeating).
> >
> > However, I recently came across a user on Reddit who used this argument that broke this mold. After I offered a counter-point about how Spartans can walk over weapons/grenades and automatically pick them up without crouching, looking at them, or removing mags from duplicate weapons; they said they wished you did have to manually pick them up and that “realism is something to strive for”.
>
> Well, following that logic, there shouldn’t be regenerating health and players should have to limp or crawl if they were shot in the legs without shields. You would eventually die if you ‘bleed out’ and treating those wounds would require a combat medic to perform a surgical operation on the field that would take several minutes, then send you to the hospital, where you’d eventually be sent home as a war veteran, and you’d never set foot in a warzone again. Sounds like a fun multiplayer experience :stuck_out_tongue:

Eh, sounds too much like CoD.

> 2533274795123910;588:
> > 2533274829253443;583:
> > Why is this thread still going if there is no solution? Someone else mentioned that there was no solution… then why keep feeding the debate? It’s killing the hype of the game.
>
> **Solution to what exactly?****Why not feed it?**Also, hype? We’ve seen a tech demo, they have barely begun. If you feel like this thread is killing the hype for you, then perhaps it’s time to go dark?
>
> > 2533274968707582;584:
> > > 2533274795123910;582:
> > > > 2535440283237581;581:
> > > > I don’t think that was an actual quote from one of the Halo novels so much as him writing a plausible lore-friendly explanation for simply increasing BMS.
> > >
> > > Yeah I should probably have put in a disclaimer.
> > > Sorry TryHardFan
> >
> > Well, now I feel like an idiot.
>
> It’ll pass when you forget about it.

How do we come to a resolution in regards to movement mechanics that works for both sides?

Why keep feeding a problem? That’s -Yoinking!- stupid.

Prior to the Tech Demo, we had silence. Now we have something and it looks great! It means progress. The ship is sailing again. I just don’t understand how people can go back and forth on a subject with no end objective. It’s like the Halo 5 Sprint and Playable Elites thread.

I’m a person who seeks resolution to conflict.

> 2535440283237581;513:
> > 2533274862914371;511:
> > > 2533274803493024;5:
> > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > There is absolutely no way this game won’t have the classic gameplay
> > >
> > > That’s purely speculation. Making assumptions like this is goofy at best.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > the oldest of Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> > >
> > > I think the first part of this statement is biased based on the second part. There are plenty of older Halo fans that like the new mechanics. (1. + 2.)
> >
> > 1. That’s purely speculation.
> > 2. Errrr … NO. I don`t like them.
>
> That Infinite will definitely have classic gameplay was speculation. Pointing that out isn’t speculation.
>
> That you don’t like the new mechanics doesn’t mean there aren’t older Halo fans who do.
>
> There are valid arguments to level against these mechanics and constructive ways to communicate your preference, but this neither of those things.

my post only referred to the lower part. Quote from CoverMyMeds “There are plenty of older Halo fans that like the new mechanics.”

  1. Thats sepeculation doesn´t matter what you think, because i know a plenty who dont.
  2. My personal opinion.
    If you do not like my opinion its ok. i will survive it.

> 2533274923562209;556:
> > 2533274825830455;555:
> > > 2533274923562209;554:
> > > unpredictability is not something that fits competitive play.
> >
> > But it absolutely is. Or what do you think players are trying to accomplish by strafing? Or why getting inside the opponent’s head is so important? Trying to behave unpredictably is a significant part of any competitive game, and thus facilitating unpredictable behavior to some extent is absolutely essential. A game where every player always knows the other player’s moves is not a competitive game at all. The role of unpredictability in competitive play is not that it should have no role at all, but that unpredictable behavior should be a skill that separates players from each other.
> >
> > For more on the role of randomness in games and the impact of sprint on it, and also for the meaning of “RNG”, see my previous post.
>
> :woman_shrugging:t2: Maybe I could’ve said there can be to much randomness. My point was adding things for the sake of being random isn’t really good for competitive play as you’re adding more elements a player has to take into consideration, hence how there can be to much randomness. Where that line of “to much” is can be debated.
>
> lets pretend they add jet packs back into halo, would you think that’d contribute to more unpredictability? Not only can players strafe, thruster, bash the crouch button or bunny hop, now they can have more verticality to their movements when it comes to avoiding fire.
>
> Then for movement around a map you have your normal way of moving via sprint or BMS, vehicles, jet packs, teleporters, lifts/man cannons, wall runnng, and lets add hooks to latch to ceilings and swing across a map. Would that be to much to you? To me there’d be to much crap going on to account for, especially if there’s a lot of players.
>
> Of course if competitive play isn’t the goal then it won’t matter much.
>
> as for my misuse of RNG, I tend to stick to it if another poster does simply to keep it simple as I get what they’re meaning. I’m aware of what RNG is as I’ve played grinders before.

Randomness is fine in competitive play, as in everyone has equal opportunity to use it. Take rumble in rocket league for example, I absolutely hate the game mode because RNG is added into the game. Players gain advantage by no other means then by getting a lucky roll on the dice. Strafing and the other movements are all player made decisions, thus people can counter them.

Jet packs don’t really add unpredictability, once you commit to flying you’re basically a target with no cover. Plus it’s just like reading a jump.

> 2533274829253443;591:
> > 2533274795123910;588:
> > > 2533274829253443;583:
> > > Why is this thread still going if there is no solution? Someone else mentioned that there was no solution… then why keep feeding the debate? It’s killing the hype of the game.
> >
> > **Solution to what exactly?****Why not feed it?**Also, hype? We’ve seen a tech demo, they have barely begun. If you feel like this thread is killing the hype for you, then perhaps it’s time to go dark?
> >
> > > 2533274968707582;584:
> > > > 2533274795123910;582:
> > > > > 2535440283237581;581:
> > > > > I don’t think that was an actual quote from one of the Halo novels so much as him writing a plausible lore-friendly explanation for simply increasing BMS.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah I should probably have put in a disclaimer.
> > > > Sorry TryHardFan
> > >
> > > Well, now I feel like an idiot.
> >
> > It’ll pass when you forget about it.
>
> How do we come to a resolution regards to movement mechanics that works for both sides?
>
> Why keep feeding a problem? That’s -Yoinking!- stupid.
>
> Prior to the Tech Demo, we had silence. Now we have something and it looks great! It means progress. The ship is sailing again. I just don’t understand how people can go back and forth on a subject with no end objective. It’s like the Halo 5 Sprint and Playable Elites thread.
>
> I’m a person who seeks resolution to conflict.

I’m not out for a compromise or solution that fits “both camps”. The question of the thread is if Infinite is a return to classic movement. Then the debate has been Classic vs Modern / Advanced.

You called it debate, not a problem.
Also, the “problem” persist even if no one talks about it.

No end objective? I think it’s quite clear what the end objectives are to individual participants.

Good for you?

> 2533274968707582;564:
> > 2533274885314026;563:
> > > 2533274830420921;560:
> > > Same movement speed in halo infinite you must have.Classic gameplay is 100% a must like in halo 3,if they don’t bring classic gameplay it will be another -Yoink- halo 5 experience were in 6 months everybody sells there discs.
> > > BRING BACK CLASSIC HALO!!!
> >
> > What is classic gameplay? Just Halo without sprint? If thats the case personally I’d like to play a game based of H2 rather than H3.
>
> Halo without any spartan abilities, including sprint.

Thank you for giving a definition.

Quick question: If H5 didn’t have any of the spartan abilities what would be your opinion of the game?

[deleted]

> 2533274889489936;2:
> As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?

The halo 2 walking speed is faster than the H5 sprint. so no?

> 2533274812978547;597:
> > 2533274889489936;2:
> > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
>
> The halo 2 walking speed is faster than the H5 sprint. so no?

No it’s not.
Halo CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3 all share the same movement speed.
Halo Reach had a slightly lower base movement speed, only slightly.
Halo 5 on the other hand has an increased base movement speed over the other games, and thus also sprint being faster.

I think they should stick to the Halo 5 movement controls (because of chronology) and I don’t think they should backtrack with the Spartan ability’s (this isn’t Reach) but I think they should make it look and feel like classic Halo. Also add duel wielding, it just makes you feel like such a bad -Yoink-.

> 2535421184810953;599:
> I think they should stick to the classic movement controls (because of chronology) and I don’t think they should backtrack with the Spartan ability’s (this isn’t Reach) but I think they should make it look and feel like classic Halo.

How would they make it look, feel, and control like classic Halo without backtracking on the Spartan Abilities?

> 2535421184810953;599:
> Also add duel wielding, it just makes you feel like such a bad -Yoink-.

I’d have to disagree with you there. Dual-wielding made laughingstocks of the weapons that it claimed, with them becoming weaker and more redundant. Compare CE’s AR and PR to H2-3’s SMG and PR and you’ll see a prime example of DW’s toll on the weapon sandbox. It was a lackluster mechanic that was supposed to promote more weapon combos, but didn’t add anything that couldn’t have been done with the standard two-weapon system.