The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > Where did I ever say I hate CoD or Fortnite?
>
> if you read is what further in the text i told you that you hate that 343 is copy some things from cod and other game’s and its not halo for you any more if there copy things from other game’s for the halo series.
> and that are things that are old news and also getting old to see from classic fans that there use the copy from other game’s as reason what is wrong that are things that is old news and gets boring to replay back on.

That didn’t answer my question… like, not even remotely.

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> > You said you could use the classic zoom in H5G. I asked you how, then you stopped replying.
> > Don’t complain when people hold you accountable for your own statements.
>
> if you wane have a answer about that question then i give it to you.
> unlock the classic Battle Rilf and DMR weapon with the basic scope on it since when i look in my weapon list from halo 5 you can do that unlock the basic weapons with the basic scope or no scope.
> battle rilfe with basic scope from halo 5
> classic halo 2 battle rilfe if you get lucky. basic DMR with basic scope. so you have it with your basic scope for the battle rilfe and DMR that the options in halo 5 there is to use.
> and if you are lucky with the golden REQ pack you get the halo 2 battle rilfe version also.

Again, I know that specific modded versions of the weapons exist in Warzone and I have already told you so. In fact, I have already unlocked them. That wasn’t the question.
You said, if I didn’t like ADS, I could just use the classic scope. How do I do that in campaign, for example? Because I don’t give a -Yoink- about Pay2WinZone.

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> 2533274945422049;5943:
> I’ve whatched the MP reveal in slow-mo. it seems that the movement speed during sprinting and shooting is the same (only one case where i’m unsure, because walking seems slightly slower but the perspective shifts). there are also no recovery frames from sprinting to shooting it seems.
>
> if this is the case the “sprint” button is just a mini thruster pack to go to top bms and sliding is just thrusters on ground.
>
> this is a possibility i hope to be true, as it would keep classic gameplay fully while giving the modern sprint animation when not firing. having the reticule show fully during running wouldbe preferable for me though.

I feel like there is a small speed increase, be it a very small one. It’s really hard to tell. Some of the third person shots seem to show a small increase in particular.

I don’t think they would make sprint purely cosmetic, seems like too big of a slap in the face to fans of 343 era Halo. ‘H**ere‘s your precious sprint animation, if you reeeeaaally must have it, it won’t effect gameplay like :+1:’. To show it in the reveals only to ‘pull the rug’, I think would be a bad idea.

I suspect we are just getting the most neutered version of sprint to date. Maybe only 20% faster than base, or even 10%. No delay before shooting any of the weapons… An attempt at a compromise.

Though the clips we’ve seen of sliding, it has me wondering. Is that a version of evade in disguise? Often when slide is activated it isn’t following sprinting, maybe sprint was activated a fraction of a second before sliding, but I can’t see that even in slow motion. And they seem to be able to slide at some unexpected angles… thrust doesn’t seem to be returning, maybe the thrust button is now used to slide?..

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> I’m sorry if I misunderstood something here, but I still don’t get how an extra option reduces options?

Because it’s not an extra option. That’s the misconception here. It’s just a set of restrictions put on max speed that weren’t there before:

  • You can no longer shoot while moving at top speed.
  • You can no longer throw grenades while moving at top speed.
  • You can no longer strafe while moving at top speed.
  • You have an increased turn radius while moving at top speed.

> 2533274890180875;5956:
> Classic Halo has 2 speeds and you can shoot at both, Modern Halo has 3 speeds and you can still shoot at two of them.

Classic Halo had a lot more than two speeds, depending on how far you push the stick. All sprint does is add a cutoff, where you can no longer increase your speed gradually but have to push an additional button to abrubptly jump to the speed the maps are actually designed for. (All the while giving up your combat capabilities.)
In addition to that, all speeds in between top speed and that arbitrary cutoff are inaccessible to the player as well. It’s just a lose-lose scenario. You’re at a disadvantage in combat and you’re at a disadvantage when moving, but I guess it’s your choice to select how you want to be crippled.
There’s absolutely no point for this. If classic Halo were too slow (which I disagree, especially since “modern” Halo is measurably even slower and to this day CE is still the fastest game in the franchise), all that was needed was to raise the max movement speed. You’d still have the smooth speed transition, you’d still have all your combat fidelity at all possible speeds and you’d still have all of the gameplay options that you had before. No need to gimp the player for arbitrary/no reasons.

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> You have to weight the risks v rewards for sprinting - can I sprint and help my friend out, or is someone watching the lane to pick me off?

What does this have to do with sprint? This still holds true in Classic Halo. It’s not even as if sprinting is inherently dangerous in Halo, unlike CoD your health/shields are ridiculously high, so even if you get hit during sprint, you can just keep sprinting until you’re in cover.

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> If BMS was 100% you either crouch at 50% or walk at 100%. With sprint, your BMS is still 100%, you can still crouch at 50%, but you can now also run at 120%. So those are in fact more options right.

You don’t run at 120% with sprint, you still just run at 100%. You can’t run faster than top speed, that’s the definition of “top speed”. It’s just that BMS no longer reaches top speed.
In Classic Halo, all speeds between 0% and 100% were mapped to the left stick and you could choose any one of them you wanted.
In “modern” Halo, only speeds from 0% to roughly 60% or 75% are accessible via stick (depends on the game). In order to reach 100% you need to push an addition button, which so happens to also gimp you with respect to combat, turn radius, etc. On top of that, speeds in between 75% and 100% can’t be accessed at all.

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> FWIW I play M&K. I know that with controllers you can vary the walk speed but not sprint speed, so maybe I’m entirely misunderstanding this convo?

I guess when you play with KB&M it would seem that sprint adds an additional options, because you can’t access anything below BMS anyways. So in that case, your speed options would appear to increase from two to three.
However, that’s an issue with using an inferior input device that is only able to read binary (WASD) instead of continuous inputs (joystick), not with the game itself, so this doesn’t need to be fixed in the game itself. (Not that adding sprint would fix this issue in the first place.)

Besides, as has been mentioned multiple times, there are far better alternatives than sprint. Doom also had a form of “sprint”, that would toggle between moving at 100% and moving at something below that (not sure what the exact numbers were), but you could still move in all directions, fight, turn around, etc. On console it just switched which speeds were accessible by stick (0-100% or 0-XX%), but it didn’t affect anything else: No interfering with combat, no options taken away from the player, no lose-lose decisions to make, the way it should be.

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> 2533274797849057;5963:
> I don’t think they would make sprint purely cosmetic, seems like too big of a slap in the face to fans of 343 era Halo. ‘H**ere‘s your precious sprint animation, if you reeeeaaally must have it, it won’t effect gameplay like :+1:’. To show it in the reveals only to ‘pull the rug’, I think would be a bad idea.
>
> I suspect we are just getting the most neutered version of sprint to date. Maybe only 20% faster than base, or even 10%. No delay before shooting any of the weapons… An attempt at a compromise.

That’s still no compromise, though.
The issue with sprint was never the delta between BMS and sprint speed, it was that sprint was neutering you with respect to your abilities when going at top speed. If this is still the case, it’ll once again not satisfy anybody because AM players won’t get the “woosh” feeling they so crave while classic fans will still have to put up with all the limitations imposed upon the mechanic. It’ll be worse than ever before.

I honest to god hope that the current speculation is true, in that the new “sprint” will instantly accelerate a player to 100% movement speed, but you can still get there just pushing forward on the left stick, even if it takes longer. (I wouldn’t even mind if they had reduced the player acceleration to make the difference more noticable.) This would be the first real attempt at a compromise that actually addresses the issues with sprint in past games.

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> 2533274801176260;5965:
> > 2533274797849057;5963:
> > I don’t think they would make sprint purely cosmetic, seems like too big of a slap in the face to fans of 343 era Halo. ‘H**ere‘s your precious sprint animation, if you reeeeaaally must have it, it won’t effect gameplay like :+1:’. To show it in the reveals only to ‘pull the rug’, I think would be a bad idea.
> >
> > I suspect we are just getting the most neutered version of sprint to date. Maybe only 20% faster than base, or even 10%. No delay before shooting any of the weapons… An attempt at a compromise.
>
> That’s still no compromise, though.
> The issue with sprint was never the delta between BMS and sprint speed, it was that sprint was neutering you with respect to your abilities when going at top speed. If this is still the case, it’ll once again not satisfy anybody because AM players won’t get the “woosh” feeling they so crave while classic fans will still have to put up with all the limitations imposed upon the mechanic. It’ll be worse than ever before.
>
> I honest to god hope that the current speculation is true, in that the new “sprint” will instantly accelerate a player to 100% movement speed, but you can still get there just pushing forward on the left stick, even if it takes longer. (I wouldn’t even mind if they had reduced the player acceleration to make the difference more noticable.) This would be the first real attempt at a compromise that actually addresses the issues with sprint in past games.

I didn’t say it was a good compromise haha. I’ve always maintained if you’re going to neuter sprint this much… why keep it? Having Sprint just be a faster way to achieve full speed is an interesting idea. But then it never took that long to achieve full speed in Classic Halo. It would seem like Sprint has been reduced to an exceedingly small, inconsequential feature if it were true.

I’m still hoping if Halo Infinite is to release multiple campaigns over its 10-year plan, maybe it can release some sort of prequel campaign. Maybe with Master Chief still wearing his Mark V armor… With more classic inspired gameplay and no sprint. With a sandbox balanced with classic movement mechanics in mind. That’s the kind of compromise I’m interested in.

I do have many questions as to how Sprint works in Halo Infinite. I’ll probably have some opinions on its implementation. Like can you instantly shoot out of Sprint with all weapons? Can you instantly throw grenades and melee out of sprinting? Can you maintain momentum jumping out of Sprint and shooting? Is Sprint a fixed speed, like it has been traditionally, or will it be analog? Can you sprint at an angle? Does your shield recharge when Sprinting? (oh why was that even a thing?) etc.

I just want to compare Sprint’s implementation to that of classic Jump. You press A you jump, it allows you to reach higher positions, span horizontal gaps and add a vertical component to your strafe. It can also be combined with Crouch to reach even higher positions. Its downside was that in jumping you would commit yourself to a predictable parabolic trajectory. It’s so simple, impactful, and opens up a lot of depth when combined with map knowledge. I feel like if Jump was implemented with the same approach as ‘Halo’s advanced movement’ you would activate a jump animation that temporarily stops you from shooting, whilst you’re in the air your shields can’t recharge, if you are taking fire when jumping it reduces your jump hight, if you melee whilst jumping you do a 3rd person uppercut animation… hyperbolic I know but I hope it makes the point. I hope they simplify Sprint and find its value. A natural downside that could be applied to sprint is that it commits you to your momentum and you can’t quickly change direction, you have a bit less ground friction when sprinting and coming out of sprint, if you want to reverse direction and back up you slide a bit.

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> Again, I know that specific modded versions of the weapons exist in Warzone

so what there can only be use in warzone and not in matchmaking its not my problem.
since if i remember it good when halo 4 has been release it was the classic fans that has disagree with the loadout system for matchmaking since it was to much looking like cod.
so then not come cry that there add then in the game but you cant use then for matchmaking.
and this is now what i keep telling you about adding new weapons if there keep folowing the bungie way that it also is not good.

> 2533274801176260;5962:
> You said, if I didn’t like ADS, I could just use the classic scope. How do I do that in campaign, for example? Because I don’t give a -Yoink- about Pay2WinZone.

deal with it what the missions give you and can pick out in the campaign mode.
and about the pay 2 win zone you call is what all the comunnety members have agree with is that in halo 5 the REQ system is broken and same go’s for the REQ packs.
and thats why most have agree that if there is a REQ packs system coming or anything like that you only get cosmetinc stuff from it like gear’s and helmet’s or emblems.
the cosmatic part thats what a lot have agree if there is a item shop system is coming that it most only become costmatic and notting to do with weapons or stuff like that what we see in halo 5 with the REQ system.

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First: I don’t see how whether or not it’s “lore-friendly” is even an issue. This is a purely gameplay related question; humans can sprint in real life, so Spartans would be able to as well. But it’s perfectly okay in a video game to decide how movement works, and if it’s a little different from real life, then that’s fine as long as it’s fun.

That said, I much prefer the movement of the classic Halos. It gave the series a beautifully simple combat style that was easy to learn and hard to master. Moreover, it defined the games’ combat from other games; every other FPS these days uses the “shoot and sprint” system (Destiny, Battlefield, CoD, etc.). The fact that 4 and 5 went this direction was part of why I didn’t like them; it just made them like every other game. But the older Halos do their own thing, and that is part of what made the series special; I think Infinite should keep that.

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> First: I don’t see how whether or not it’s “lore-friendly” is even an issue.

It never is. People just like to use it an excuse to put unbalanced mechanics in the game

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> >
>
> That’s still no compromise, though.
> The issue with sprint was never the delta between BMS and sprint speed, it was that sprint was neutering you with respect to your abilities when going at top speed.

I’m quite certain the delta matters. The severity of many of the current issues that exist has a direct correlation with the delta between bms and sprint. A lower delta would mean a reduction in size of no man’s lands, map stretching, and impact on map design in general, would reduce the effectiveness of running from combat (and ensuing cat and mouse scenarios), would reduce the effectiveness using sprint to correct poor positioning, would reduce the impact on weapon damage, hit boxes, bullet magnetism, etc.

Besides the reduced delta, there look to be other changes made as well (instant shooting out of sprint for example), so it seems they’re trying as much as possible to reduce its impact. IMO, it seems like they’ve done as good of a compromise as anyone could’ve hoped for.

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> > If BMS was 100% you either crouch at 50% or walk at 100%. With sprint, your BMS is still 100%, you can still crouch at 50%, but you can now also run at 120%. So those are in fact more options right.
>
> You don’t run at 120% with sprint, you still just run at 100%. You can’t run faster than top speed, that’s the definition of “top speed”. It’s just that BMS no longer reaches top speed.
> In Classic Halo, all speeds between 0% and 100% were mapped to the left stick and you could choose any one of them you wanted.
> In “modern” Halo, only speeds from 0% to roughly 60% or 75% are accessible via stick (depends on the game). In order to reach 100% you need to push an addition button, which so happens to also gimp you with respect to combat, turn radius, etc. On top of that, speeds in between 75% and 100% can’t be accessed at all.

I don’t get what you mean that you run at 100%? Unless you mean BMS was reduced in the sprint-games, even though walk speed feels mostly the same.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear - I was using the BMS in the classic games as the standard for comparison, so that’s what I placed at 100% speed. I didn’t mean 100% as “top speed in each game”. Since BMS is very similar across all titles (please correct me if I’m wrong!) I kept this as 100% across titles as well. But since sprint in newer games is faster than BMS I added the 120%. Not sure exactly how much faster it is, +20% was just an arbitrary figure I used.

So if classic Halo games let you use 50% (crouch) or 100% (BMS), modern Halo lets you use 50%, 100% or 120% (sprint).

The only way it makes sense to me that modern Halo games BMS is 75% is that they didn’t really want players to sprint faster, so they nerfed BMS and made sprint equal to the classic BMS. I haven’t really thought about it till now but I guess this would make sense…

> > 2533274890180875;5956:
> > FWIW I play M&K. I know that with controllers you can vary the walk speed but not sprint speed, so maybe I’m entirely misunderstanding this convo?
>
> I guess when you play with KB&M it would seem that sprint adds an additional options, because you can’t access anything below BMS anyways. So in that case, your speed options would appear to increase from two to three.
> However, that’s an issue with using an inferior input device that is only able to read binary (WASD) instead of continuous inputs (joystick), not with the game itself, so this doesn’t need to be fixed in the game itself. (Not that adding sprint would fix this issue in the first place.)

Agreed that it’s inferior in terms of movement but IMO, aiming is much better on M&K. I guess the compromise varies from person to person here.

> Besides, as has been mentioned multiple times, there are far better alternatives than sprint. Doom also had a form of “sprint”, that would toggle between moving at 100% and moving at something below that (not sure what the exact numbers were), but you could still move in all directions, fight, turn around, etc. On console it just switched which speeds were accessible by stick (0-100% or 0-XX%), but it didn’t affect anything else: No interfering with combat, no options taken away from the player, no lose-lose decisions to make, the way it should be.

I think this would be pretty cool honestly! Like I said earlier I don’t like sprinting often because I have to lower weapons, and I feel like I’d switch up speeds more often if I could keep shooting. Maybe not quite as fast as Doom, but still!

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I also miss trick jumps in Halo.

There were so many cool ones in Halo 3, some intentional and many not so intentional. Being able to move around Guardian or Epitaph using these jumps was very satisfying and added a cool skill factor to the game.

Fusion coil launches too, using them on Last Resort to scale the base, or to fly across Foundry in FFA was great.

Sprint as an animation only is ideal.

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Lmao, is it true that CE really is the fastest game in the franchise? That’s pretty hilarious if you think about it, considering the nature of this entire discussion and things I consistently hear from people who are pro-sprint.

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> 2533274797849057;5963:
> > 2533274945422049;5943:
> > I’ve whatched the MP reveal in slow-mo. it seems that the movement speed during sprinting and shooting is the same (only one case where i’m unsure, because walking seems slightly slower but the perspective shifts). there are also no recovery frames from sprinting to shooting it seems.
> >
> > if this is the case the “sprint” button is just a mini thruster pack to go to top bms and sliding is just thrusters on ground.
> >
> > this is a possibility i hope to be true, as it would keep classic gameplay fully while giving the modern sprint animation when not firing. having the reticule show fully during running wouldbe preferable for me though.
>
> I feel like there is a small speed increase, be it a very small one. It’s really hard to tell. Some of the third person shots seem to show a small increase in particular.
>
> I don’t think they would make sprint purely cosmetic, seems like too big of a slap in the face to fans of 343 era Halo. ‘H**ere‘s your precious sprint animation, if you reeeeaaally must have it, it won’t effect gameplay like :+1:’. To show it in the reveals only to ‘pull the rug’, I think would be a bad idea.
>
> I suspect we are just getting the most neutered version of sprint to date. Maybe only 20% faster than base, or even 10%. No delay before shooting any of the weapons… An attempt at a compromise.
>
> Though the clips we’ve seen of sliding, it has me wondering. Is that a version of evade in disguise? Often when slide is activated it isn’t following sprinting, maybe sprint was activated a fraction of a second before sliding, but I can’t see that even in slow motion. And they seem to be able to slide at some unexpected angles… thrust doesn’t seem to be returning, maybe the thrust button is now used to slide?..

slide would be the thrust function on ground. in the 2020 trailer chief seams to thrust in midair at a point.
i’ve watched the gameplay reveal trailer in 0.5 and 0.25 speed, and sprint and shooting seems to have the same speed. at two points a rotating point of view makes sprint seem slightly faster, but thats an optical trick.
this would mean the button to initiate sprinting is actualy just a mini forward thrust to cut the time to reach top speed short.
in the multiplayer reveal trailer in the spartan academy section there is a segment of a shown tutorial with an “press a to jump” propmpt, and the spartan clambers the ledge. so clamber is either an automatic function now or is an animation to make jumps look more fancy.

having sprint and clamber be animations makes the game look more modern. that is justifyable.

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> > >
>
> Lmao, is it true that CE really is the fastest game in the franchise? That’s pretty hilarious if you think about it, considering the nature of this entire discussion and things I consistently hear from people who are pro-sprint.

CE and Halo 5 are like completely different games, mainly because of how fast CE is. Prisoner and Derelict are even faster. It’s the only Halo where you can’t camp because you have to fight for powerups and weapons constantly. Halo 5 just feels like it’s faster because of the animations and you’re pressing more buttons.

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> > > >
> >
> > Lmao, is it true that CE really is the fastest game in the franchise? That’s pretty hilarious if you think about it, considering the nature of this entire discussion and things I consistently hear from people who are pro-sprint.
>
> CE and Halo 5 are like completely different games, mainly because of how fast CE is. Prisoner and Derelict are even faster. It’s the only Halo where you can’t camp because you have to fight for powerups and weapons constantly. Halo 5 just feels like it’s faster because of the animations and you’re pressing more buttons.

That’s what I noticed, too. After playing the MCC, I realized that the older games without sprint felt faster paced than Halo 4 or 5. It’s the maps, really. They’re designed around BMS and not sprint like in 4 and 5.

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> > 2533274801176260;5964:
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> > >
>
> Lmao, is it true that CE really is the fastest game in the franchise? That’s pretty hilarious if you think about it, considering the nature of this entire discussion and things I consistently hear from people who are pro-sprint.

To put it into perspective, CE 2v2 to 50 kills ends quicker than H5 4v4 to 50 kills. There’s virtually no idle time in CE. You’re always moving, and you’re always shooting.

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Hello everyone. I have returned to this thread. I am here to say this…
After experiencing Halo 3 at a higher FoV, I feel it’s very fast and puts into perspective just how quick the older games truly were. Halo CE, for example, is pretty fast especially with it’s spawn setup and constant battle for powerups. This has changed my mind about Halo 5 being as fast as I thought. It’s crazy how the FoV makes such a difference in how fast you feel.
I am also hopeful for the future, as Infinite looks like it has a very toned down version of sprint. I’m curious to see how it goes in gameplay.

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> > > > 2533274890180875;5956:
> > > >
> >
> > Lmao, is it true that CE really is the fastest game in the franchise? That’s pretty hilarious if you think about it, considering the nature of this entire discussion and things I consistently hear from people who are pro-sprint.
>
> To put it into perspective, CE 2v2 to 50 kills ends quicker than H5 4v4 to 50 kills. There’s virtually no idle time in CE. You’re always moving, and you’re always shooting.

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> > > > >
> > >
> > > Lmao, is it true that CE really is the fastest game in the franchise? That’s pretty hilarious if you think about it, considering the nature of this entire discussion and things I consistently hear from people who are pro-sprint.
> >
> > CE and Halo 5 are like completely different games, mainly because of how fast CE is. Prisoner and Derelict are even faster. It’s the only Halo where you can’t camp because you have to fight for powerups and weapons constantly. Halo 5 just feels like it’s faster because of the animations and you’re pressing more buttons.
>
> That’s what I noticed, too. After playing the MCC, I realized that the older games without sprint felt faster paced than Halo 4 or 5. It’s the maps, really. They’re designed around BMS and not sprint like in 4 and 5.

I wouldn’t know because I have no experience with Halo MP at all, only the campaigns CE to Reach. I constantly keep hearing about how “the old games are so slow and sluggish!!!” and can’t help but ask myself “are we even playing the same games?” because classic Halo DOES NOT feel slow at all, in campaign at least. Maybe they feel a bit floatier but I like that about them, it’s tight and intuitive, unlike how weird and clunky pretty much any modern FPS with sprint feels. CE hasn’t aged that much at all for me, gameplay wise.

Kinda bummed that Infinite didn’t take a page out of DOOM’s book in that regard, but the game will probably be fun regardless.

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> 2535431432353013;5978:
> Hello everyone. I have returned to this thread. I am here to say this…
> After experiencing Halo 3 at a higher FoV, I feel it’s very fast and puts into perspective just how quick the older games truly were. Halo CE, for example, is pretty fast especially with it’s spawn setup and constant battle for powerups. This has changed my mind about Halo 5 being as fast as I thought. It’s crazy how the FoV makes such a difference in how fast you feel.
> I am also hopeful for the future, as Infinite looks like it has a very toned down version of sprint. I’m curious to see how it goes in gameplay.

Yeah, it’s funny how one of the main arguments for Halo 4 - 5 style movement mechanics is that it makes those games faster than the classics, when I just found out the exact opposite is true.

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> 2535419393377481;5980:
> > 2535431432353013;5978:
> > Hello everyone. I have returned to this thread. I am here to say this…
> > After experiencing Halo 3 at a higher FoV, I feel it’s very fast and puts into perspective just how quick the older games truly were. Halo CE, for example, is pretty fast especially with it’s spawn setup and constant battle for powerups. This has changed my mind about Halo 5 being as fast as I thought. It’s crazy how the FoV makes such a difference in how fast you feel.
> > I am also hopeful for the future, as Infinite looks like it has a very toned down version of sprint. I’m curious to see how it goes in gameplay.
>
> Yeah, it’s funny how one of the main arguments for Halo 4 - 5 style movement mechanics is that it makes those games faster than the classics, when I just found out the exact opposite is true.

Yeah I was stunned playing Halo 3 at 120 FoV for the first time. It was like I entered an alternate dimension or something