The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
5802

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> > 2535436014907905;5799:
> > What if sprinting mean that you had no shields until yous topped sprinting, kinda like you route all your suits power to movement.
>
> Most of the people that don’t like sprint simply want the mechanic out of the game,

I’m not so sure about that. Every single player I know said they would be ok with, or be more accepting of sprint if they could still shoot while running. I don’t know if “most” players feel the same though, I can only comment on conversations I’ve had with other Halo players.

5803

> 2592250499819446;5802:
> > 2533274894112092;5801:
> > > 2535436014907905;5799:
> > > What if sprinting mean that you had no shields until yous topped sprinting, kinda like you route all your suits power to movement.
> >
> > Most of the people that don’t like sprint simply want the mechanic out of the game,
>
> I’m not so sure about that. Every single player I know said they would be ok with, or be more accepting of sprint if they could still shoot while running. I don’t know if “most” players feel the same though, I can only comment on conversations I’ve had with other Halo players.

This comes down to how one defines “sprint”, and there are also some ambiguities regarding the exact meaning of “shoot while running”.

As a disclaimer, I can obviously only speak for myself here, so consider this comment as a demonstration of how an opponent of sprint might view the situation.

I would accept a button that simply toggled between two movement speed states with no other side effects, in the style of original Doom. This would allow me to just push the button once at the start of a match, and forget about it. I don’t think there is much point in it, but if that’s a compromise a sprint fan accepts, I’m happy to take it.

However, the devil is in the details. For one “toggle” means that if I stop in the “high speed state”, and continue running, I’m still in the high speed state. Likewise for turning and strafing. Secondly, the speed boost applies equally in all directions. That is, if my forward speed in the “low speed state” is 10% higher than my backward speed, I expect that to hold in the “high speed state”, and same applies to strafe speeds.

This is important, because I think that when people who like sprint talk about “shooting while running”, they just imagine the traditional Halo 5 sprint mechanic with shooting enabled, but when opponents of sprint talk about “shooting while running”, I think they imagine just the standard BMS style running where all the details I described in the last paragraph apply.

Personally, I would not be fine with Halo 5 style sprinting just with shooting enabled, and the speed toggle described above that I would be fine with I wouldn’t describe as “sprint”. But I do know that some opponents of sprint don’t have a problem labeling the effect of Doom’s run button as “sprint”.

The bottom line is that you really have to be careful about what people actually mean, because people might be using the exact same words to talk about two different things.

5804

One second thought perhaps my idea of a sprint nerf is not so good haha.

What do you guys think about H5 dash/boost mechanics but in the form of a map piwerup pickup in addition to no sprint.

5805

The issue with having Sprint is that it puts people at differing running speeds. Classic Halo everyone moves the same you know.

Also, them adding Sprint as a permanent mechanic in Halo 4 changed the Map formula for the worse. Every map to me in Halo 4 and 5 feels really big and not Halo like.

5806

> 2535436014907905;5804:
> One second thought perhaps my idea of a sprint nerf is not so good haha.
>
> What do you guys think about H5 dash/boost mechanics but in the form of a map piwerup pickup in addition to no sprint.

Thruster was like the only one of the advanced movement additions that I could tolerate, but sadly, it looks like they tossed it and kept sprint. Ugh.

5807

> 2535436014907905;5804:
> One second thought perhaps my idea of a sprint nerf is not so good haha.
>
> What do you guys think about H5 dash/boost mechanics but in the form of a map piwerup pickup in addition to no sprint.

It could definitely work, however as of right now, the only option I see in Infinite getting a “no sprint” playlist is through the Competitive or Action Sack scene and a content update that lets us replace sprint with evade, jetpack, or some other ability that isn’t a part of the new forearm attachments. Disabling buttons isn’t something that 343 seems to want, by looking at Halo 4 and 5’s competitive runs.

I don’t know how 343 coded their base player mechanics, but refactoring sprint into a modular button similar to the new equipment system isn’t too hard based on how I did small projects in Unity and Unreal. Granted those are extremely modular engines, but I’m sure the principle is the same, especially if Microsoft wants to use the engine for other titles.

5808

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> > 2592250499819446;5802:
> > > 2533274894112092;5801:
> > > > 2535436014907905;5799:
> > > > What if sprinting mean that you had no shields until yous topped sprinting, kinda like you route all your suits power to movement.
> > >
> > > Most of the people that don’t like sprint simply want the mechanic out of the game,
> >
> > I’m not so sure about that. Every single player I know said they would be ok with, or be more accepting of sprint if they could still shoot while running. I don’t know if “most” players feel the same though, I can only comment on conversations I’ve had with other Halo players.
>
> The bottom line is that you really have to be careful about what people actually mean, because people might be using the exact same words to talk about two different things.

The players I talk to are talking about DOOM. Press a button / click stick and you’re running / moving faster. Your post is exactly what they talk about. I could have saved you a lengthy post by using DOOM as an example. I think they should just up the BSM and give us a FoV slider, but that’s just me, I don’t know if it would be a good solution for both sprint and non sprint fans.

5809

Maybe there isn’t sprint in Infinite

TLDR: Maybe Infinite doesn’t have sprint

It seems the OP here is arguing that the sprint animation is only visual and is not a restrictive ability. If this is true, I would be very happy. He shows that there seems to be no restriction on shooting, equipment, grenades, melee, etc while full speed.

5810

> 2533274866906624;5809:
> Maybe there isn’t sprint in InfiniteTLDR: Maybe Infinite doesn’t have sprint
>
> It seems the OP here is arguing that the sprint animation is only visual and is not a restrictive ability. If this is true, I would be very happy. He shows that there seems to be no restriction on shooting, equipment, grenades, melee, etc while full speed.

If that is true then it could be good. We could actually have a decent Halo and fans of “modern gameplay” will get their animation. Win win honestly.

5811

In the newest inside infinite update shows that sprint is clearly in infinite. i was hoping for only a cosmetic animation, and still hope bms is not to slow concerning how slow the sprint looks like. a sprint with barely any effect could as well be replaced by just an animation, saving the unncessary button press.
This also implies thrusters, which i liked, are out. slide could easily be linked to thrusters or even combined when on the ground.
[Inside Infinite - April 2021

](https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/inside-infinite-april-2021)having a barely effective sprint take up a button instead of just being fast base movement speed with a fancy animation is bad game design, as it needlessly divides movement and takes up a button where neither has a balancing or functionality reason.
thrusters where also not widely disliked, so combining slide on the ground and thrusters in midair into a button would have been better.

5812

> 2533274945422049;5811:
> In the newest inside infinite update shows that sprint is clearly in infinite. i was hoping for only a cosmetic animation, and still hope bms is not to slow concerning how slow the sprint looks like. a sprint with barely any effect could as well be replaced by just an animation, saving the unncessary button press.
> This also implies thrusters, which i liked, are out. slide could easily be linked to thrusters or even combined when on the ground.
> Inside Infinite - April 2021
>
> having a barely effective sprint take up a button instead of just being fast base movement speed with a fancy animation is bad game design, as it needlessly divides movement and takes up a button where neither has a balancing or functionality reason.
> thrusters where also not widely disliked, so combining slide on the ground and thrusters in midair into a button would have been better.

Yup, push button to sprint -confirmed- . Press F to pay respects to classic movement. /thread.

5813

> 2644524424069134;5812:
> > 2533274945422049;5811:
> > In the newest inside infinite update shows that sprint is clearly in infinite. i was hoping for only a cosmetic animation, and still hope bms is not to slow concerning how slow the sprint looks like. a sprint with barely any effect could as well be replaced by just an animation, saving the unncessary button press.
> > This also implies thrusters, which i liked, are out. slide could easily be linked to thrusters or even combined when on the ground.
> > Inside Infinite - April 2021
> >
> > having a barely effective sprint take up a button instead of just being fast base movement speed with a fancy animation is bad game design, as it needlessly divides movement and takes up a button where neither has a balancing or functionality reason.
> > thrusters where also not widely disliked, so combining slide on the ground and thrusters in midair into a button would have been better.
>
> Yup, push button to sprint -confirmed- . Press F to pay respects to classic movement. /thread.

I don’t see how that wasn’t expected. It could still totally be an animation because activating it can allow slide. Now you won’t be walking and trying to crouch and accidentally sliding. Just because it’s a button prompt doesn’t mean it confirms anything yet. Stay strong and hopeful!

5814

One of my problems with advanced movement is that it distracts away from far more interesting movement solutions in the sandbox. Such as man cannons, teleporters, gravity lifts, moving platforms, conveyor belts and mongooses, to name a few. We know Halo infinite will involve some level of advanced movement, I just hope it is toned down enough to return the focus back to the sandbox.

Halo infinite has a 10 year plan and a financial model that incorporates paid campaign releases. I hope this means there is room for a classic spin-off campaign and maybe an accompanying multiplayer component. So I do still have hope for a modern classic Halo. In fact I think it’s the perfect way to do it, it’ll basically be a DLC, sharing game assets, low financial risk. It’s part of why I still debate mechanics such as sprint. I do believe the classic formula deserves another go at it and can be successful in the modern market.

5815

I truly believe that it is time to return to classic mechanics in Halo for multiple reasons.

  • First and foremost, we have not received a classic style game that has preformed bod like how H4 did with population. The last classic game we had was the most successful in the franchise, Halo 3. - Secondly, Halo is an arena shooter that has limited power to the player and majority of the power in the environment and weapons. What 343i has tried to do is flip the script and give more power to the player and less to the map and weapons. - The demand for a more classic experience is there, with over the million people who bought the MCC on steam, it proves that classic halo is defiantly still profitable. However with the MCC being launched in a poor and buggy state on PC that killed its momentum. - But most of all Halo needs to return to classic mechanics because the data shows that since Reach, Halo has not been able to replicate the same success of H3 which is problematic especially in an age where gaming is more popular than it has ever been. 343i has gone through drastic measures to hide the fact that their games aren’t doing -Yoink- good as they would want us to believe. For example disabling play counts in Halo 4 and 5, and combining merchandise Sales with actual game sales for Halo 5 to project the illusion that H5 was far more successful that it really was.

Halo needs to return to not only classic mechanics but the art style needs to return as well, not some blend of classic and 343i. Halo is a pre-established franchise with fans that have been rocking with it since 2001. 343i needs to honor this fact by giving us a Halo game that caters to all of the classic mechanics, art style, and game modes that we expect from a Halo game. 343i has managed this franchise by looking at every other game and trying to implement what makes them successful instead of looking at previous Halo games and seeing what made them successful. Halo has only been Halo in name alone since 343i has started creating their own games.

No I don’t want a H3 clone, many who defend 343i say things like this. But I also dont want Halo trying to be CoD or Titan fall, or Crisis. I dont want to see Halo continue down this mediocre road of trailing behind games because 343i continues to deny Halo its individualism. Halo 3 showed us how to balance both competitive and casual gameplay which is important because Halo cannot survive without a community that isnt shattered and isolated. While Reach did many things wrong, its fun game modes, customization, and additions to progression like challenges and commendations are strongly welcomed. I know Halo infinite wont have these things, but its long overdue.

5816

For a business prespective sprint is here to stay. Now that the game is f2p it needs to appeal to a huge audience and nowadays your average player is expecting sprint from a FPS, even if it’s detrimental for the gameplay.

5817

> 2535469462089417;5816:
> For a business prespective sprint is here to stay. Now that the game is f2p it needs to appeal to a huge audience and nowadays your average player is expecting sprint from a FPS, even if it’s detrimental for the gameplay.

Point #3 in my original post disagrees with you. What do you say about games like Overwatch and Valorant, which feature characters lacking any enhanced movement abilities whatsoever?

5818

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> > 2535469462089417;5816:
> > For a business prespective sprint is here to stay. Now that the game is f2p it needs to appeal to a huge audience and nowadays your average player is expecting sprint from a FPS, even if it’s detrimental for the gameplay.
>
> Point #3 in my original post disagrees with you. What do you say about games like Overwatch and Valorant, which feature characters lacking any enhanced movement abilities whatsoever?

i can give you a few reasons if you need.

both off then have only close quarter maps with almost no large openings between then since its only close up with buildings and no open rooms or fields between then to use sprint.

same reason all the large matchmaking maps have in halo there have all large open space between then so the use off sprint is good there then on the small maps that have more close quarter then open.

now i have a question for you.
do you hate that with sprint you can use a lot off new tactice’s in the game to make kills and to evoide some off then also easyer like a sniper rilfe kill has become harder with sprint then without.
same thing between a fight between a Spartan VS a Ghost is without sprint a lose case more but with sprint you have a chance to evoide it.

5819

I think it’s going to be a hard decision to make either way for 343, you’re always going to push someone away. I know there are some people who really enjoy the no sprint classic feel, but there are a lot of times I play MCC with someone who hasn’t played halo since halo 3 came out or it’s their first time playing a halo campaign and they just go ugh there’s no sprint I forgot that…

Also its crazy to me the number of people I have played with that have played halo mp but never touched a campaign

5820

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> As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?

you do know that the maps are extended for sprint right? And the base movement is slowed down to accommodate for sprint?

5821

> 2533274935099360;5819:
> I think it’s going to be a hard decision to make either way for 343, you’re always going to push someone away. I know there are some people who really enjoy the no sprint classic feel, but there are a lot of times I play MCC with someone who hasn’t played halo since halo 3 came out or it’s their first time playing a halo campaign and they just go ugh there’s no sprint I forgot that…
>
> Also its crazy to me the number of people I have played with that have played halo mp but never touched a campaign

I think at this point 343i needs to make Halo feel like what it felt like back in H3. If you look at 343i titles H4 felt like CoD while H5 felt like a blend of Halo and Titan Fall.
343i has made Halo games feel like Halo in name alone and not through gameplay, art style, and music. Although H5 was a step in the right direction in terms of music, it failed everywhere else.

343i biggest problem is that they trend chase and pay too much attention to how other games make money, what 343i needs to do is look back at H3 and the customizable options Reach expanded on. 343i games have poor player retention because people check out the game and arent interested in a Halo Cod or Halo Titan Fall hybrid, players want to play Halo. If they want to play these other games they will go play them.

If you look back, 343i hasnt even attempted a more classic oriented game since they acquired the franchise, its always been about how they can implement change. Till this day the most successful Halo was Halo 3. Since 343i likes to copy why haven’t they tried to evolve H3 mechanics yet?