The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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TheKiltdHeathen

> > …unlike Halo 4 and 5 which preformed much worse in terms of sales and abysmally in terms of player retention.
>
> False. As has been gone over many times in the past, sales have only ever gone up. Comparisons have tried to frame it with Halo 3 sales up to current, which is a massively uneven timeframe comparison that skews the presented data with an obvious bias. “Player Retention” has also never been shown conclusively, and population numbers given are incomplete and fractional, mostly gotten from websites that only track their registered players, not the total population.

“False. As has been gone over many times in the past, sales have only ever gone up.”
Citation definitely needed. If Halo 4 and 5 really sold so well you can bet that 343 would have bragged about it, but instead they’re very clearly steering away from the direction of Halo 5 with Halo Infinite, which makes no sense if Halo 5 really did so well.

If timeframe was really so important than Halo CE and 2 should have caught up more with Halo 3 but they haven’t, people typically only buy games en masse shortly (months) after release.

If you don’t want to go by the numbers on certain websites than perhaps you should simply look at how quickly Halo 4 and 5 dropped on the list of most played Xbox games after release. 2/2

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> > You say that removing sprint doesn’t fulfill a purpose, other people will just say adding it as a base ability didn’t fulfill a purpose either. Sprint is here for the majority of Halo’s lifespan, but there were talks to remove sprint when it was a “new” ability, and the response was “let it grow on you!” It’s a grandfathered in ability where attempts to remove it is somehow harder than any other mechanic to date in this series, good or bad.
> >
> > We’re going into Halo Infinite and some of the suite of abilities are left on the chopping block for unexplained (and most likely won’t be explained) reasons. What made one concession (keep sprint, remove thrust) better than another concession (remove sprint, keep thrust)?
> >
> > Individual 343 employees (current and former) had differing opinions on sprint, and the company as a whole was only “contentious” nearly a decade ago. Neighbor said the game plays perfectly fine without sprint. Sketch believes those advocating against sprint are “exhausting.” Josh Holmes I believe likes the faster pace.
>
> Kind of my point in many ways. The opinion on sprint is always gonna vary. As you mentioned, it does have some form of priority in the current development mindset (mainly being it allows for additional movement systems that can only exist cause of sprint ie sliding). You are correct that we don’t know what their mentality is currently with sprint and I do think it would be better for them to come out and explain it. Who knows, maybe they will.
>
> From my perspective, they removed various abilities that seem to be either over-tuned and or can exist outside of the player (thrust can be moved to an equipment piece) and kept sprint giving it gave players ways to initiate various other movement systems (slide, spring jump etc). I don’t like sprint as a whole but I think much of the argument of sprint becomes focused on the movement itself and not how it’s used as a tool to initiate other combat systems (some of which are not intentional).
>
> 343 at the end of the day found themselves stuck between 2 massive rocks (which in a way, they placed themselves between). Much of the player population liked sprint, just like much did not. They had to find a way to dial back the advanced movement systems implemented while also allowing some form of it to still exist. People are just going to need to accept that what infinite currently has is probably how it’s going to remain. Will they add settings and stuff for more customization of modes? I sure hope so, but expecting something massively different is just uinrealistic. I am actually shocked this thread is even still going.

1st paragraph: Slide doesn’t need to be tied to sprint, it only is because every other game does it and 343 would rather follow the trend of every other shooter to appeal to them.
2nd: Why can’t sprint exist outside of the core gameplay? why does the core combat loop require sprint and slide and clamber? isn’t Halo supposed to be simple by design?
3rd: So 343 chose the worst option by keeping it in yet making it super slow, appealing neither camp and still causing issues gameplay-wise…great. How can you be shocked by this thread? sprint is so gamechanging to Halo it’s a no-brainer as to how decisive it is. If you took COD and made hipfire perfectly accurate with all weapons and removed ADS, you would end up with a mechanic just as decisive as sprint in Halo, don’t you think it would be debated until the end of time?

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> 1st paragraph: Slide doesn’t need to be tied to sprint, it only is because every other game does it and 343 would rather follow the trend of every other shooter to appeal to them.
> 2nd: Why can’t sprint exist outside of the core gameplay? why does the core combat loop require sprint and slide and clamber? isn’t Halo supposed to be simple by design?
> 3rd: So 343 chose the worst option by keeping it in yet making it super slow, appealing neither camp and still causing issues gameplay-wise…great. How can you be shocked by this thread? sprint is so gamechanging to Halo it’s a no-brainer as to how decisive it is. If you took COD and made hipfire perfectly accurate with all weapons and removed ADS, you would end up with a mechanic just as decisive as sprint in Halo, don’t you think it would be debated until the end of time?

  1. Cause you need an initial threshold that allows for slide to be initiated. Otherwise, it can be spammed causing issues
  2. It’s a good question, but also one that negates the past 10 years of halo. Sprint has been in the game longer than it hasn’t. Removing it at this point would only be to appease a section of the community (debatably will be the smallest given the nature of ftp populations). Also, sprint/slide/clamber don’t make things complex
  3. It’s the worst option for you, but for many, it isn’t. We also don’t have anything that really gauges its speed so you can’t claim it’s slow. No one can make any claim on the current implementation of sprint until it launches.

I get your point regarding the COD comparison but it’s a poor one imo. Mainly cause the COD comparison doesn’t actually add anything to the discussion more than “ill talk about that forever.” Which if that’s your point, cool, just a silly comparison to make.

As for me being shocked this thread is still a thing, the games out in less than a year. We know sprint, clamber and slide is in. The game is designed with those in mind. It makes the debate on their inclusion in infinite (as this is an infinite thread) essentially pointless.

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> > 1st paragraph: Slide doesn’t need to be tied to sprint, it only is because every other game does it and 343 would rather follow the trend of every other shooter to appeal to them.
> > 2nd: Why can’t sprint exist outside of the core gameplay? why does the core combat loop require sprint and slide and clamber? isn’t Halo supposed to be simple by design?
> > 3rd: So 343 chose the worst option by keeping it in yet making it super slow, appealing neither camp and still causing issues gameplay-wise…great. How can you be shocked by this thread? sprint is so gamechanging to Halo it’s a no-brainer as to how decisive it is. If you took COD and made hipfire perfectly accurate with all weapons and removed ADS, you would end up with a mechanic just as decisive as sprint in Halo, don’t you think it would be debated until the end of time?
>
> 1. Cause you need an initial threshold that allows for slide to be initiated. Otherwise, it can be spammed causing issues
> 2. It’s a good question, but also one that negates the past 10 years of halo. Sprint has been in the game longer than it hasn’t. Removing it at this point would only be to appease a section of the community (debatably will be the smallest given the nature of ftp populations). Also, sprint/slide/clamber don’t make things complex
> 3. It’s the worst option for you, but for many, it isn’t. We also don’t have anything that really gauges its speed so you can’t claim it’s slow. No one can make any claim on the current implementation of sprint until it launches.
>
> I get your point regarding the COD comparison but it’s a poor one imo. Mainly cause the COD comparison doesn’t actually add anything to the discussion more than “ill talk about that forever.” Which if that’s your point, cool, just a silly comparison to make.
>
> As for me being shocked this thread is still a thing, the games out in less than a year. We know sprint, clamber and slide is in. The game is designed with those in mind. It makes the debate on their inclusion in infinite (as this is an infinite thread) essentially pointless.

1: then put a cooldown…? really not a complicated issue, besides why do we need slide? it doesn’t do anything in Halo
2: so? we have no reason to assume removing them wouldn’t make Halo more popular and yes it is slow compared to the sprint of every other Halo game ( unless they buff it in the release version and cause more issues )
3: I don’t see many H5 superfans in Infinites camp thanks to the lack of unique movement mechanics, all 343 did was make Halo Infinite just as generic as the next Farcry in regards to movement.

It’s still valid in regards to how much impact the change has on the core of the game. Every Halo after 3 plays nothing like the originals that cemented the franchise. Halo Reach can be excused as a spin-off ( especially since it broke the lore ultra-hard ) but Halo 4 and 5 had no reason to change the game like they did and have cemented Halo’s downfall through stagnation and trend following.

So? you act as if a game can’t change and if we can’t have our own opinions, who cares if those mechanics are guaranteed in the game I’m still going to complain about them until either A: the franchise actually goes back to it’s roots ( which 343 will never do ) or B: I decide that this franchise is not what I fell in love with, and leave.

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> 2. It’s a good question, but also one that negates the past 10 years of halo. Sprint has been in the game longer than it hasn’t. Removing it at this point would only be to appease a section of the community (debatably will be the smallest given the nature of ftp populations).

I mean like I said, it’s not like the complaints started now, sprint just happened to weather the complaints for a decade and only now did it become “well we passed the time limit so we can’t be removed anymore!”

I mean Dual Wielding was around for 60% of the games lifespan before ODST phased it out and Reach kept it out. Customizable loadouts pretty fundamentally changed the way Halo played for the past 9+ years, yet it still happened for a while and we ended up going back. The age of a mechanic doesn’t matter all that much.

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> As for me being shocked this thread is still a thing, the games out in less than a year. We know sprint, clamber and slide is in. The game is designed with those in mind. It makes the debate on their inclusion in infinite (as this is an infinite thread) essentially pointless.

Well the thread isn’t (entirely) expecting for Halo Infinite to simply remove mechanics. If you asked most people here, they’d be fully expecting sprint to be included and there was next to zero chance it would be (me included). As long as it remains a “problem”, the conversation will just continue on to the next game and the game after that.

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> Well the thread isn’t (entirely) expecting for Halo Infinite to simply remove mechanics. If you asked most people here, they’d be fully expecting sprint to be included and there was next to zero chance it would be (me included). As long as it remains a “problem”, the conversation will just continue on to the next game and the game after that.

thats fair.

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> > > So? you act as if a game can’t change and if we can’t have our own opinions, who cares if those mechanics are guaranteed in the game I’m still going to complain about them until either A: the franchise actually goes back to it’s roots ( which 343 will never do ) or B: I decide that this franchise is not what I fell in love with, and leave.

I’m not here to debate anything so I’m not entertaining the questions any further. They are fair points and not ones I have answers for. I am not for or against sprint as a whole so I find it funny watching this thread further cement itself in the view that things have to be black and white.

As for this specific statement. A game can definitely change, just not foundationally. Also, your definition of what halos roots are may be different than another’s definition. Much of this thread (for both for and against) argue different versions of what the actual roots of halo are. Thus making the discussion essentially unending given there is no one definition of what makes Halo, Halo. Some argue it’s purely just the golden triangle, others argue that includes movement. Others ignore those entirely and go off the overall feel of the game. Without an agreed-upon definition (which doesn’t exist) we cant actually argue what the “roots of halo” are.

I also never said you can’t complain, but this thread just seems pointless now given what’s known. Infinite isn’t going back to true “classic” movement mechanics, but it also isn’t adopting the “future” mechanics laid out in 5. People will just need to accept that and then critique the implementation of them. IE, the sprints speed, is there a momentum system, what are the maps like, how are the weapons tuned, whats clambers speed, how long is the delay before I am able to shoot after exiting sprint/clamber/slide etc. The discussion should be moving towards that instead of what this thread embodies (us vs them mentality). There are some great discussions in here, but recently, it has just reverted back to its format of bickering.

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> > 1st paragraph: Slide doesn’t need to be tied to sprint, it only is because every other game does it and 343 would rather follow the trend of every other shooter to appeal to them.
> > 2nd: Why can’t sprint exist outside of the core gameplay? why does the core combat loop require sprint and slide and clamber? isn’t Halo supposed to be simple by design?
> > 3rd: So 343 chose the worst option by keeping it in yet making it super slow, appealing neither camp and still causing issues gameplay-wise…great. How can you be shocked by this thread? sprint is so gamechanging to Halo it’s a no-brainer as to how decisive it is. If you took COD and made hipfire perfectly accurate with all weapons and removed ADS, you would end up with a mechanic just as decisive as sprint in Halo, don’t you think it would be debated until the end of time?
>
> 1. Cause you need an initial threshold that allows for slide to be initiated. Otherwise, it can be spammed causing issues
> 2. It’s a good question, but also one that negates the past 10 years of halo. Sprint has been in the game longer than it hasn’t. Removing it at this point would only be to appease a section of the community (debatably will be the smallest given the nature of ftp populations). Also, sprint/slide/clamber don’t make things complex
> 3. It’s the worst option for you, but for many, it isn’t. We also don’t have anything that really gauges its speed so you can’t claim it’s slow. No one can make any claim on the current implementation of sprint until it launches.
>
> I get your point regarding the COD comparison but it’s a poor one imo. Mainly cause the COD comparison doesn’t actually add anything to the discussion more than “ill talk about that forever.” Which if that’s your point, cool, just a silly comparison to make.
>
> As for me being shocked this thread is still a thing, the games out in less than a year. We know sprint, clamber and slide is in. The game is designed with those in mind. It makes the debate on their inclusion in infinite (as this is an infinite thread) essentially pointless.

Yes I concur… Hi to those that dont know: slide can be a more effective version of ducking in CQB you ever play PvP. Players been ducking scince H1. I have seen no evidence of clamber but would think. …
it covers the glitchy crouch jump.

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> > > 1st paragraph: Slide doesn’t need to be tied to sprint, it only is because every other game does it and 343 would rather follow the trend of every other shooter to appeal to them.
> > > 2nd: Why can’t sprint exist outside of the core gameplay? why does the core combat loop require sprint and slide and clamber? isn’t Halo supposed to be simple by design?
> > > 3rd: So 343 chose the worst option by keeping it in yet making it super slow, appealing neither camp and still causing issues gameplay-wise…great. How can you be shocked by this thread? sprint is so gamechanging to Halo it’s a no-brainer as to how decisive it is. If you took COD and made hipfire perfectly accurate with all weapons and removed ADS, you would end up with a mechanic just as decisive as sprint in Halo, don’t you think it would be debated until the end of time?
> >
> > 1. Cause you need an initial threshold that allows for slide to be initiated. Otherwise, it can be spammed causing issues
> > 2. It’s a good question, but also one that negates the past 10 years of halo. Sprint has been in the game longer than it hasn’t. Removing it at this point would only be to appease a section of the community (debatably will be the smallest given the nature of ftp populations). Also, sprint/slide/clamber don’t make things complex
> > 3. It’s the worst option for you, but for many, it isn’t. We also don’t have anything that really gauges its speed so you can’t claim it’s slow. No one can make any claim on the current implementation of sprint until it launches.
> >
> > I get your point regarding the COD comparison but it’s a poor one imo. Mainly cause the COD comparison doesn’t actually add anything to the discussion more than “ill talk about that forever.” Which if that’s your point, cool, just a silly comparison to make.
> >
> > As for me being shocked this thread is still a thing, the games out in less than a year. We know sprint, clamber and slide is in. The game is designed with those in mind. It makes the debate on their inclusion in infinite (as this is an infinite thread) essentially pointless.
>
> Yes I concur… Hi to those that dont know: slide can be a more effective version of ducking in CQB you ever play PvP. Players been ducking scince H1. I have seen no evidence of clamber but would think. …
> it covers the glitchy crouch jump.

But why does Halo need sliding and clamber, crouch jump isn’t glitching and crouching already serves a purpose.

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> > > > 1st paragraph: Slide doesn’t need to be tied to sprint, it only is because every other game does it and 343 would rather follow the trend of every other shooter to appeal to them.
> > > > 2nd: Why can’t sprint exist outside of the core gameplay? why does the core combat loop require sprint and slide and clamber? isn’t Halo supposed to be simple by design?
> > > > 3rd: So 343 chose the worst option by keeping it in yet making it super slow, appealing neither camp and still causing issues gameplay-wise…great. How can you be shocked by this thread? sprint is so gamechanging to Halo it’s a no-brainer as to how decisive it is. If you took COD and made hipfire perfectly accurate with all weapons and removed ADS, you would end up with a mechanic just as decisive as sprint in Halo, don’t you think it would be debated until the end of time?
> > >
> > > 1. Cause you need an initial threshold that allows for slide to be initiated. Otherwise, it can be spammed causing issues
> > > 2. It’s a good question, but also one that negates the past 10 years of halo. Sprint has been in the game longer than it hasn’t. Removing it at this point would only be to appease a section of the community (debatably will be the smallest given the nature of ftp populations). Also, sprint/slide/clamber don’t make things complex
> > > 3. It’s the worst option for you, but for many, it isn’t. We also don’t have anything that really gauges its speed so you can’t claim it’s slow. No one can make any claim on the current implementation of sprint until it launches.
> > >
> > > I get your point regarding the COD comparison but it’s a poor one imo. Mainly cause the COD comparison doesn’t actually add anything to the discussion more than “ill talk about that forever.” Which if that’s your point, cool, just a silly comparison to make.
> > >
> > > As for me being shocked this thread is still a thing, the games out in less than a year. We know sprint, clamber and slide is in. The game is designed with those in mind. It makes the debate on their inclusion in infinite (as this is an infinite thread) essentially pointless.
> >
> > Yes I concur… Hi to those that dont know: slide can be a more effective version of ducking in CQB you ever play PvP. Players been ducking scince H1. I have seen no evidence of clamber but would think. …
> > it covers the glitchy crouch jump.
>
> But why does Halo need sliding and clamber, crouch jump isn’t glitching and crouching already serves a purpose.

Lol no argument go play the same game then. Funny football players slide an sprint an soldiers might clamber or climb up a surface. MCs a scifi super soldier goes with the lore, why not.

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> > > > > 1st paragraph: Slide doesn’t need to be tied to sprint, it only is because every other game does it and 343 would rather follow the trend of every other shooter to appeal to them.
> > > > > 2nd: Why can’t sprint exist outside of the core gameplay? why does the core combat loop require sprint and slide and clamber? isn’t Halo supposed to be simple by design?
> > > > > 3rd: So 343 chose the worst option by keeping it in yet making it super slow, appealing neither camp and still causing issues gameplay-wise…great. How can you be shocked by this thread? sprint is so gamechanging to Halo it’s a no-brainer as to how decisive it is. If you took COD and made hipfire perfectly accurate with all weapons and removed ADS, you would end up with a mechanic just as decisive as sprint in Halo, don’t you think it would be debated until the end of time?
> > > >
> > > > 1. Cause you need an initial threshold that allows for slide to be initiated. Otherwise, it can be spammed causing issues
> > > > 2. It’s a good question, but also one that negates the past 10 years of halo. Sprint has been in the game longer than it hasn’t. Removing it at this point would only be to appease a section of the community (debatably will be the smallest given the nature of ftp populations). Also, sprint/slide/clamber don’t make things complex
> > > > 3. It’s the worst option for you, but for many, it isn’t. We also don’t have anything that really gauges its speed so you can’t claim it’s slow. No one can make any claim on the current implementation of sprint until it launches.
> > > >
> > > > I get your point regarding the COD comparison but it’s a poor one imo. Mainly cause the COD comparison doesn’t actually add anything to the discussion more than “ill talk about that forever.” Which if that’s your point, cool, just a silly comparison to make.
> > > >
> > > > As for me being shocked this thread is still a thing, the games out in less than a year. We know sprint, clamber and slide is in. The game is designed with those in mind. It makes the debate on their inclusion in infinite (as this is an infinite thread) essentially pointless.
> > >
> > > Yes I concur… Hi to those that dont know: slide can be a more effective version of ducking in CQB you ever play PvP. Players been ducking scince H1. I have seen no evidence of clamber but would think. …
> > > it covers the glitchy crouch jump.
> >
> > But why does Halo need sliding and clamber, crouch jump isn’t glitching and crouching already serves a purpose.
>
> Lol no argument go play the same game then. Funny football players slide an sprint an soldiers might clamber or climb up a surface. MCs a scifi super soldier goes with the lore, why not.

“durrrr lore means I should be able to sprint durr”
I do play the same game and slide does nothing for combat while clamber replaces a better mechanic for no reason other than “durr lore and every other shooter does it durr”

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> I also never said you can’t complain, but this thread just seems pointless now given what’s known. Infinite isn’t going back to true “classic” movement mechanics, but it also isn’t adopting the “future” mechanics laid out in 5. People will just need to accept that and then critique the implementation of them. IE, the sprints speed, is there a momentum system, what are the maps like, how are the weapons tuned, whats clambers speed, how long is the delay before I am able to shoot after exiting sprint/clamber/slide etc. The discussion should be moving towards that instead of what this thread embodies (us vs them mentality). There are some great discussions in here, but recently, it has just reverted back to its format of bickering.

This thread is part of a larger discussion that has been going for years. While it is in the Halo Infinite forum, and the original OP is a comment on the game, the purpose of this thread isn’t to speculate what mechanics Halo Infinite will have, but what mechanics Halo should have. It’s as much aabout the philosophy of movement mechanics and their future in Halo as it is about their practical implementation in the next game.

Just because people didn’t get what they want this time doesn’t mean they should just give up and go home. As long as there is a future, there is the possibility of change, and passionate people will pursue that possibility.

There will be a time and place to discuss actionable changes to the fine tuning of Halo Infinite’s sandbox, but that will be when the public flighting starts and people can make educated statements about the specifics, not now, and probably not this thread. This thread will always be for the higher level, more philosophical, future oriented discussion. It will only be pointless if people lose interest in discussing movement mechanics.

I’m not going to defend people’s behavior in this thread, but blame the people, not the topic.

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> > I also never said you can’t complain, but this thread just seems pointless now given what’s known. Infinite isn’t going back to true “classic” movement mechanics, but it also isn’t adopting the “future” mechanics laid out in 5. People will just need to accept that and then critique the implementation of them. IE, the sprints speed, is there a momentum system, what are the maps like, how are the weapons tuned, whats clambers speed, how long is the delay before I am able to shoot after exiting sprint/clamber/slide etc. The discussion should be moving towards that instead of what this thread embodies (us vs them mentality). There are some great discussions in here, but recently, it has just reverted back to its format of bickering.
>
> This thread is part of a larger discussion that has been going for years. While it is in the Halo Infinite forum, and the original OP is a comment on the game, the purpose of this thread isn’t to speculate what mechanics Halo Infinite will have, but what mechanics Halo should have. It’s as much aabout the philosophy of movement mechanics and their future in Halo as it is about their practical implementation in the next game.
>
> Just because people didn’t get what they want this time doesn’t mean they should just give up and go home. As long as there is a future, there is the possibility of change, and passionate people will pursue that possibility.
>
> There will be a time and place to discuss actionable changes to the fine tuning of Halo Infinite’s sandbox, but that will be when the public flighting starts and people can make educated statements about the specifics, not now, and probably not this thread. This thread will always be for the higher level, more philosophical, future oriented discussion. It will only be pointless if people lose interest in discussing movement mechanics.
>
> I’m not going to defend people’s behavior in this thread, but blame the people, not the topic.

Might just be my perception then, but wouldn’t it be best if the thread was then moved to the general discussion instead of infinite? If it’s about the philosophy of movement mechanics, then it seems like a general topic and not infinite specific.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter, it’s off-topic so ill table that entire point.

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> > > It doesn’t matter how slow sprint is compared to BMS, it’s still there and effects the game and makes Halo feel generic. Classic fans will never be satisfied with a half-solution and 343 took the worst road possible, pleasing neither the classic fans or the H5 fans.
> >
> > I agree with you to an extent. Halo would do better trying to stand out rather than blend in. But at this point Sprint has been around for 3 straight games, the latest game pushed ‘advanced mobility’ hard. It would probably be quite jarring for newer fans to just go all the way back to classic movement. There would probably be quite a back lash.
> >
> > I would personally prefer a no sprint Halo. Slide I would keep… even without Sprint. But I digress. At the most basic level I judge new gameplay additions on 2 things: Is it fun/engaging to use? Is it fun/engaging to fight against? I think Sprint could be argued to tick the first point (though I dont feel it myself), but I can’t see how any compelling argument for it ticking the second. On that ground alone I would get rid of it.
>
> Screw the new fans, they will only stick around for a month and either A: switch to whatever new trendy game is going on or B: go back to fornite or COD as it’s closer to what they prefer. Halo needs to stop trying to attract newer fans when the market is so saturated and younger players are so hostile to maintaining a consistent playerbase that’s it’s not worth ruining Halo’s legacy so some zoomers can run fast.
>
> Aside from that it, fun is very important factor but it shouldn’t dictate how the game is made. Personally I would remove slide too, it serves no purpose without sprint and really has no place in Halo anyhow ( what purpose does it serve other than filling the AAA-redundancy checklist? ) It probably barley lowers your hitbox and lowers your weapon for a frame or 2 so why have it.

A Slide to me, I equate to the ability to crouch mid air. It’s a little thing but it can make map traversal more engaging. It allows for crouch jumps, jumping through small gaps like small windows or into an air vent and the change in hit box can be useful to dodge headshots (like with bunny hopping). Further more it is a very natural and intuitive combination of 2 actions the player can perform: jump and crouch. Slide I could see as the natural combination of moving faster than crouch walking speed and crouching. It’s currently a combination of sprint and crouch but it doesn’t need to be.

Now I wouldn’t want it to be the typical AAA Slide, No lowering of the weapon, No lunge or forward thrust. But yes I do think a version of Slide could work well with Halo’s Classic movement system. In Halo CE you had to slow down to crouch, In Halo 2 (could have been Halo 3, I can’t remember) crouching when running would rapidly slow you down to crouch walking speed: which was an ease of use improvement but it also helped for things like crouch strafing. But why do we have to rapidly decelerate to Crouch speed? Why not let us carry some of the momentum? Have a small delay before movement speed is decreased/ before the friction kicks in. Imagine the start of Halo CE, when you have no weapon and you are running to the bridge: Sliding under the half lowered blast doors… Or Running through the self destructing Pillar of Autumn, dodging explosions and sliding under collapsing debris, to get to a Warthog and escape… Slide can have an animation, but your weapon should stay up, trained and ready. The animation applying to your legs. I think this version of Slide could add another subtle layer of engagement to movement. Could even have it interact with slippery surfaces, like ice, in interesting ways… And I don’t think it interferes with Halo core in any negative way.

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> 2533274797849057;5555:
> > 2535458188883243;5517:
> > > 2533274797849057;5514:
> > > > 2535458188883243;5513:
> > > > It doesn’t matter how slow sprint is compared to BMS, it’s still there and effects the game and makes Halo feel generic. Classic fans will never be satisfied with a half-solution and 343 took the worst road possible, pleasing neither the classic fans or the H5 fans.
> > >
> > > I agree with you to an extent. Halo would do better trying to stand out rather than blend in. But at this point Sprint has been around for 3 straight games, the latest game pushed ‘advanced mobility’ hard. It would probably be quite jarring for newer fans to just go all the way back to classic movement. There would probably be quite a back lash.
> > >
> > > I would personally prefer a no sprint Halo. Slide I would keep… even without Sprint. But I digress. At the most basic level I judge new gameplay additions on 2 things: Is it fun/engaging to use? Is it fun/engaging to fight against? I think Sprint could be argued to tick the first point (though I dont feel it myself), but I can’t see how any compelling argument for it ticking the second. On that ground alone I would get rid of it.
> >
> > Screw the new fans, they will only stick around for a month and either A: switch to whatever new trendy game is going on or B: go back to fornite or COD as it’s closer to what they prefer. Halo needs to stop trying to attract newer fans when the market is so saturated and younger players are so hostile to maintaining a consistent playerbase that’s it’s not worth ruining Halo’s legacy so some zoomers can run fast.
> >
> > Aside from that it, fun is very important factor but it shouldn’t dictate how the game is made. Personally I would remove slide too, it serves no purpose without sprint and really has no place in Halo anyhow ( what purpose does it serve other than filling the AAA-redundancy checklist? ) It probably barley lowers your hitbox and lowers your weapon for a frame or 2 so why have it.
>
> A Slide to me, I equate to the ability to crouch mid air. It’s a little thing but it can make map traversal more engaging. It allows for crouch jumps, jumping through small gaps like small windows or into an air vent and the change in hit box can be useful to dodge headshots (like with bunny hopping). Further more it is a very natural and intuitive combination of 2 actions the player can perform: jump and crouch. Slide I could see as the natural combination of moving faster than crouch walking speed and crouching. It’s currently a combination of sprint and crouch but it doesn’t need to be.
>
> Now I wouldn’t want it to be the typical AAA Slide, No lowering of the weapon, No lunge or forward thrust. But yes I do think a version of Slide could work well with Halo’s Classic movement system. In Halo CE you had to slow down to crouch, In Halo 2 (could have been Halo 3, I can’t remember) crouching when running would rapidly slow you down to crouch walking speed: which was an ease of use improvement but it also helped for things like crouch strafing. But why do we have to rapidly decelerate to Crouch speed? Why not let us carry some of the momentum? Have a small delay before movement speed is decreased/ before the friction kicks in. Imagine the start of Halo CE, when you have no weapon and you are running to the bridge: Sliding under the half lowered blast doors… Or Running through the self destructing Pillar of Autumn, dodging explosions and sliding under collapsing debris, to get to a Warthog and escape… Slide can have an animation, but your weapon should stay up, trained and ready. The animation applying to your legs. I think this version of Slide could add another subtle layer of engagement to movement. Could even have it interact with slippery surfaces, like ice, in interesting ways… And I don’t think it interferes with Halo core in any negative way.

But then it’s unnecessary as specific mechanics have to be designed to make use of this movement mechanic, it’s simply unneeded.

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274825830455;5553:
> > 2533274840624875;5548:
> > I also never said you can’t complain, but this thread just seems pointless now given what’s known. Infinite isn’t going back to true “classic” movement mechanics, but it also isn’t adopting the “future” mechanics laid out in 5. People will just need to accept that and then critique the implementation of them. IE, the sprints speed, is there a momentum system, what are the maps like, how are the weapons tuned, whats clambers speed, how long is the delay before I am able to shoot after exiting sprint/clamber/slide etc. The discussion should be moving towards that instead of what this thread embodies (us vs them mentality). There are some great discussions in here, but recently, it has just reverted back to its format of bickering.
>
> This thread is part of a larger discussion that has been going for years. While it is in the Halo Infinite forum, and the original OP is a comment on the game, the purpose of this thread isn’t to speculate what mechanics Halo Infinite will have, but what mechanics Halo should have. It’s as much aabout the philosophy of movement mechanics and their future in Halo as it is about their practical implementation in the next game.
>
> Just because people didn’t get what they want this time doesn’t mean they should just give up and go home. As long as there is a future, there is the possibility of change, and passionate people will pursue that possibility.
>
> There will be a time and place to discuss actionable changes to the fine tuning of Halo Infinite’s sandbox, but that will be when the public flighting starts and people can make educated statements about the specifics, not now, and probably not this thread. This thread will always be for the higher level, more philosophical, future oriented discussion. It will only be pointless if people lose interest in discussing movement mechanics.
>
> I’m not going to defend people’s behavior in this thread, but blame the people, not the topic.

You suck

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> 2533274804813082;5534:
> > 2533274836395701;5518:
> >
>
> I said it is, in general, expected and standard. Not mandatory.
>
> No, the argument against the Big Four modern examples of Star Studded Sprintless Successes is and has been that their gameplay ideology is completely different to Halo. For as much as you all gaslight me for “putting words in your mouths”, several sure put words in my mouth.
> Advanced Movement is brought up because it has been used as an argument to how the flow of maps has been “broken” because of them. I very specifically remember going around in regards to the map Truth, and how some areas are supposedly only reachable with the aid of Spartan Abilities. Even Dead End can’t help but bring in Thrusters and clambering with his examples of various Trick Jumps.

The flow of map movement can be broken because of how Halo 5 handles movement. The logical leap to then insinuate that disagreeing with how Halo 5 functions isn’t a condemnation of the idea of movement in Halo. As with my previous example, I condemn jetpack in Reach, as a pick-up it works, I hate bubble shield in Halo 3, halve the size and make it a grenade and it would become fun. I don’t like the movement system in H5, doesn’t mean it can’t work, just that sprint is the pillar of H5 movement tech. Sprint is the issue.

As for the first paragraph the “modern shooters” Halo has to ‘modernise’ with are also games with different ideologies, choosing not to name them doesn’t mean they don’t exist. So how is the sprintless comparison different from the ‘need’ sprint argument? All the games are different games, so if none are valid then the only apt comparison is Halo itself. That the game was popular without it and that it fell off a cliff with it.

> 2533274804813082;5534:
> > Well, here we go with the comparison to old games. Irrelevant, as I’ve pointed out the choice between movement and combat is as instantaneous as your reflexes and pulling the trigger. That stops you sprinting, while still moving forward provided you don’t panic and let off the left analog, and you immediately open fire with whatever rate-of-fire your weapon has. There is no “forced choice” that is not immediately rectifiable. Similar to dual wielding and melee, and better than dual wielding and throwing grenades.

The choice but not the power exchange. Since you cannot shoot while sprinting those that sprint are choosing to run, those that shoot have to not sprint. There is a power imbalance that sprint creates that favours those running away. It is an escape mechanic. The choice is forced as it did not exist beforehand, you could move at top speed AND shoot, now that you can’t the flow and general style of the game has changed and not for the better. As i stated, Halo has less open maps than other games with sprint, and a higher killtime, it doesn’t function like the ‘modern’ comparisons. It’s like taking dark souls and allowing instant save. Small changes can have a knock-on effect to gameplay and sprint does, hence the ~12 years of controversy and a failing online community.

> 2533274804813082;5534:
> Yes, I skipped #2. There was very little “randomness” in the loadouts of Halo 4, as they were all restricted to a specific set of loadout weapons. It’s not like it was a game of Fiesta. And the various tactical packages and support upgrades (if that’s what you mean by ordinance) didn’t offer any enormous advantage to players. Neither did armor ability loadouts, as every single set had drawbacks and shortcomings.

Randomness and chaos is what I should have said. Loadouts, support and tactical packages add chaos, they are an unknown, unsolvable piece of information on encounter. You had to play with the idea that the best possible option was what they always had. The upgrades weren’t major, but significant enough to be an issue. By ordnance I mean the killstreaks in Halo 4, where you can drop down a damage boost or a sniper rifle. As well as the random map spawn times and locations. If you ran shielding for tactical package then either stability, explosives or dexterity for support upgrade then it trumped the other ones. You could always have a boltshot and in BTB a plasma pistol. Until it was nerfed and the others buffed lightrifle was the go to, then the BR. It wasn’t some crazy tech tree, it was easily min/maxed and abused.

> 2533274804813082;5534:
> I don’t compare Halo to other games to support my opinion that Sprint belongs in Halo.

Yes you do, ‘modern games’ isn’t a void answer with no examples, you chose not to name them. Battlefield, CoD, titanfall and Destiny are likely the big ‘modern’ game examples, possibly fortnite. Your re-entry to the thread is that it is expected and standard to have sprint. Which standard? what games set that standard?

> 2533274804813082;5534:
> You’re forgetting teamwork. I know that’s often on the sidelines, and today’s population tends to be more selfish in their scramble for Top Score and all the glory. But teamwork has always been a huge part of Halo’s multiplayer. It’s why you’re in a Four Spartan fireteam.
>
> Shields don’t recharge while you’re sprinting. So assuming that your target is at half-shields and for some reason decides to turn and flee, they’re already at a disadvantage. And while you’re peppering them with chasing fire, it would be best if you coordinated a squadmate to cut them off, and take advantage of their significantly weakened and off-balance position. Or is map control also forgotten in your scenario? A scenario which is also pretty much isolated to standard Slayer. Move that to SWAT, and you’ve got an entirely different situation.

Quite the contrary because of teamwork it is easy for the sprinting player to get to safety, still quite easy for a team to miss out on killing a sprinting player. How will the squadmate cut them off if they’re actively running away? By also running and not shooting? Sure on an open map like truth there isn’t much issue, but on a more complex map like Plaza, Rig etc it’s far easier to break sight, run to teammates and play defensive. If a team has map control it’s much harder to convert that into anything as H5 is so touchy feely, when played well its very cat and mouse.

> 2533274804813082;5534:
> No, it really wouldn’t, because that’s not Halo’s gameplay ideology. And, to point, the whole idea of Sprint as a tactical tool is not to be going as fast as possible all the time.

What is Halo’s gameplay ideology? seems rather vague. Given you loathe comparisons to past Halo games, is your ideology of Halo gameplay even Halo? Going as fast as possible all the time was Halo, Halo 101.

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274804813082;5539:
> > 2535441307847473;5535:
> > A game that presents you with an option to completely ignore ranged combat as one of the main options is not an FPS.
>
> Oof, guess Halo’s not an FPS then. Because in every single Halo I can completely ignore ranged combat and run through the maps with nothing but melee. Hell, Halo 2 onward even gives us a melee weapon to use. Halo Reach onward devoted a neat little animation for it.
>
>
>
>
> > This seems to imply that there is some sort of standard for FPS games which there is not,
>
> Only there is. By standard default* for modern console FPS games, movement and strafe is on the left analog stick, aiming and turning on the right analog stick. Firing your weapon is on the right trigger, crouch (and prone) is B, jumping is A, action and reload is X. Increasingly, aiming is achieved by pulling the left trigger, be it scoped or ADS. Melee has migrated to clicking down on the right stick, and sprint by clicking down on the left stick.
>
> *By “standard default” a majority of games is meant. Four examples of outliers does not negate or disprove a common standard.
>
>
>
>
> > if you’re trying to compare Skyrim to Halo directly, then the comparison is different depending on which Halo game you’re looking at, and in no case is it the same.
>
> I’m not comparing Halo to Skyrim, and had made that clear by stating that it’s foolish to compare games that differ in such fashions just because of shared mechanics. Skyrim is considered an FPS RPG; that you have a “melee class” doesn’t change this. Yet comparing Skyrim to Halo is just as foolish as comparing Halo to another FPS game like Call of Duty or DOOM, as the playstyles and ideologies of the games are completely different.
>
> And no, it doesn’t take more than ranged combat to make an FPS. By definition: “First-person shooter (FPS) is a video game genre centered on gun and other weapon-based combat in a first-person perspective” That can include swords, spells, knives, hammers, Mantis Blades and even unarmed combat.
>
>
>
>
> > There are far more than 4 outliers,
>
> Then name some. Do keep in mind were talking about modern gaming. And, preemptively, CS:GO is well over a decade old; it’s not an example of modern gaming, regardless of enduring popularity with a demographic.
>
> What makes for a “good” standard mechanic is largely up to opinion, though I’m curious as to just why you think it’s not a good thing to have. In general, not even for Halo alone.
>
>
>
>
> > You may not have found his examples to be convincing
>
> I thought I had made that pretty clear. They weren’t only not convincing, they were false and misleading. Many of the given examples can be done without Sprint, and one was a Trick Jumps that required more than Sprint. It has not impacted map layout so much so that Sprinting is required to traverse the map, and this is even true in maps that have grown compared to their predecessors, like Truth.
>
>
>
>
> > The big difference here between dual wield and sprint is that dual wield was both optional and never really that powerful
>
> Sprint is optional. And the second is flatly wrong. A player dual wielding Needlers or Plasma Rifles was at a significant advantage. Or, worse still, Plasma Rifle/SMG, Plasma Pistol/Magnum, and other combinations that quickly shredded shields and allowed for quicker kills without swapping weapons.
>
> And while you may feel the need to Sprint to “keep up” (you don’t, I’ve encountered just as many campers and the like in Halo 5 as I did in Halo 2), the point is that had your side wanted a game type that did not include Sprint - similar to how there were gametypes removing Armor Abilities and Assassinations - it could have been done. Theoretically still can. The issue there being that several hold the viewpoint against being “segregated”, and opt rather to remove what they don’t like across the board rather than compromise.
>
>
>
>
> > Even if sprint instantly ended upon pulling the trigger,
>
> Not if, it does. Go on and try it. If you’re at a disadvantage from that, then you’re always at a disadvantage while moving and you might as well camp.
>
> You also break from Sprint at the same instantaneous rate when you strafe or turn too drastically. So in no situation is it like you have to stop for a full second before you can resume BMS. And realistically, if you’re entering an area that you expect enemies you’re going to be sweeping the room, not sprinting in like Leeroy Jenkins. Again, Sprint is not about going fast all the time.
>
>
>
>
> > …unlike Halo 4 and 5 which preformed much worse in terms of sales and abysmally in terms of player retention.
>
> False. As has been gone over many times in the past, sales have only ever gone up. Comparisons have tried to frame it with Halo 3 sales up to current, which is a massively uneven timeframe comparison that skews the presented data with an obvious bias. “Player Retention” has also never been shown conclusively, and population numbers given are incomplete and fractional, mostly gotten from websites that only track their registered players, not the total population.

I got nothing to say other then out of 10,000 pages you are cringe as -Yoink-. Keep trying to argue your opinion, you just sound like an uninformed 14 year old idiot who’s first game was Halo 5. Kids like you can bug off, we don’t need CoD players in Halo. Leave, and don’t come back. EDIT : Everyone go to this guy’s “YouTube Channel” . Take a look at this guy’s face, HOLY -Yoink-, CRINGE !?!??! :rofl::rofl::rofl::joy::joy::joy:

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> 2535425705933824;5559:
> …

And you sir (or madam) are a -yoink-. Hoping just for you that Infinite has 5 levels of sprint.

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> 2535425705933824;5559:
>

I’m not a moderator but this is straight up uncalled for, I disagree vehemently with TheKiltdHeathen and his arguments are downright terrible, but he deserves the same respect that all forum users do.