The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > Those appear to be H2 pre-patch and not current MCC or classic H2 as those sword lunges and BR spread don’t work current. If innovation is all that matters for a games population than COD should have died long ago, so clearly it’s not the innovation in the gaming landscape that decides popularity.
> > Have you ever played CE? CE is the most aggressive in the franchise, health regen doesn’t matter when powerups and power weapons are on set timers and must be taken before the enemy gets it.
>
> Pre-Patch Halo 2 was still a significant period of time. It was like, 6 months? Pretty sure Halo 2 grew in the time period of all things. 6 months of sword lunging across the map. (Anyone know if the Battle Rifle change was intentional, I can’t see anything about it in old patch notes).
>
> CE is good but it could be better. Most players are not encouraged to push forward because there’s barely anything telling them to. Like, quick camo is intentional, but good luck to the average player figuring that out.
>
> Wider innovation matters for Halo, because Halo’s gameplay itself isn’t as mass appeal as Call of Duty. I’m guessing Halo’s super popularity was propped up by other things back then. Even with changes Halo always had that niche feeling. If we assume that Halo still has potential to be mass appeal, then there’s definitely a lack of incentive to keep playing, because Halo 2 Anniversary is still the least popular in MCC. And Halo 5’s warzone wasn’t as popular as Call of Duty’s…warzone.

Yet it doesn’t argue for the rest of H2.
Then they don’t know what they’re playing and should strive to improve, guides exist for a reason.
Does it? H3 didn’t change much in overall gameplay yet had more players than any other game on xbox for a good while, also H2A and H5W are jokes so don’t use them in arguments when discussing actually good ( or decent ) games.

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Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.

Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.

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> Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself.

Why? Do you think setting the BMS slower would make the Halo 5 maps feel smaller? I don’t really understand the the reasoning here.

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> Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
>
> Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.

H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.

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> > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
> >
> > Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.
>
> H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.

How does it play nothing like Halo 2? I’d argue it’s the purest form of classic Halo since 3, minus the artstyle and hitmarkers.

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> > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself.
>
> Why? Do you think setting the BMS slower would make the Halo 5 maps feel smaller? I don’t really understand the the reasoning here.

I’ll reply here since I used the wrong word. Not going to bother with this thread again for a long time afterwards.

I meant to say, “I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps are larger, not just sprint itself.” If we assume the maps are built around the mechanics (taking the claim of sprint increasing map size into account), then the BMS increase naturally leads to the map size being larger. Because changing the BMS affects a lot of things if the idea is to keep the pacing similar. That includes AI reactions in campaign, tracking enemies, how objective game modes could work (latter is more of a guess, may not be true). Like, Halo 4’s Pitfall’s size is on par with Halo 3’s The Pit. While 2’s Midship is smaller than 5’s Truth. Halo 4 didn’t change the map sizes in remakes despite having default sprint, yet Halo 5 did, for whatever reason.

In general speed of Halo is more on the sandbox, balancing, FOV, and map design. Halo 3 is perceived as slow by many players because your gun doesn’t work, FOV is lower, and half the maps aren’t well designed. There’s little need to change the base speed because it was fine as is before 5. Sprint is arguably superfluous at best and damaging at worse, but BMS increase has similar, but even more ramifications than sprint. However, it’s all an excessive argument from me if the idea is to have only a tiny increase. (Then again, why do that if developers can just make better maps).

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> I meant to say, “I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps are larger, not just sprint itself.” If we assume the maps are built around the mechanics (taking the claim of sprint increasing map size into account), then the BMS increase naturally leads to the map size being larger. Because changing the BMS affects a lot of things if the idea is to keep the pacing similar. That includes AI reactions in campaign, tracking enemies, how objective game modes could work (latter is more of a guess, may not be true). Like, Halo 4’s Pitfall’s size is on par with Halo 3’s The Pit. While 2’s Midship is smaller than 5’s Truth. Halo 4 didn’t change the map sizes in remakes despite having default sprint, yet Halo 5 did, for whatever reason.

The difference between The Pit/Pitfall and Midship/Truth is that on Pitfall 343i basically just ported the geometry, whereas on Truth they reimagined the geometry. I wouldn’t read too much into this, because not only is Pitfall the odd one out in Halo 4 (it’s the only non-BTB map remake in Halo 4), it is also the largest Halo 3 arena map, having twice the footprint of Heretic, and even then its movement works very differently from its Halo 3 counterpart.

The Pit actually has a remake in Halo 5: Blok Pit. It is a Forge map, and it is in fact marginally smaller than the original map. This suggests that 343i thought what’s good for Halo 4 is good for Halo 5. But when they made Truth, they could not possibly have ported the original Geometry, because Midship is absolutely tiny. It would not have worked in Halo 5, but it would not have worked in Halo 4 either.

We can also consider the one Halo 4 remake in Halo 5: Mercy. To my knowledge, although I haven’t checked, this is a straight 1:1 remake of Haven, which suggests that 343i did not feel the increased BMS poses an issue for their prior designs from Halo 4.

The most impactful movement speed is the maximum movement speed. Increasing the BMS in a game with sprint obviously is something one should take into consideration, but it’s not that impactful because it’s not the speed that determines what gaps players can jump, and it’s not the speed that determines how fast players can move through the map. That is, it doesn’t determine the things that most influence a map’s size.

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> I meant to say, “I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps are larger, not just sprint itself.” If we assume the maps are built around the mechanics (taking the claim of sprint increasing map size into account), then the BMS increase naturally leads to the map size being larger. Because changing the BMS affects a lot of things if the idea is to keep the pacing similar.

If I’m not mistaken, BMS was increased after the Halo 5 beta which to my memory was half a year beforw launch.

Think they would’ve redesigned all the completed and half done maps between beta and release?

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> > > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
> > >
> > > Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.
> >
> > H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.
>
> How does it play nothing like Halo 2? I’d argue it’s the purest form of classic Halo since 3, minus the artstyle and hitmarkers.

Combine a terrible game engine with poor weapon and sandbox design and insane aim assist and bullet magnetism into a game that is H4 without sprint. Totally classic H2

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> 2535442569875751;5463:
> Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
>
> Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.

In H5’s beta, the BMS was much slower than what we received on release. Truth was already created at the time of the beta, meaning sprint was the reason the maps are so spread out and enlarged. Hope this helps :wink:

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> > > > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
> > > >
> > > > Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.
> > >
> > > H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.
> >
> > How does it play nothing like Halo 2? I’d argue it’s the purest form of classic Halo since 3, minus the artstyle and hitmarkers.
>
> Combine a terrible game engine with poor weapon and sandbox design and insane aim assist and bullet magnetism into a game that is H4 without sprint. Totally classic H2

Still better gameplay-wise than H4 and H5 in my honest opinion. :innocent:

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> > > > > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.
> > > >
> > > > H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.
> > >
> > > How does it play nothing like Halo 2? I’d argue it’s the purest form of classic Halo since 3, minus the artstyle and hitmarkers.
> >
> > Combine a terrible game engine with poor weapon and sandbox design and insane aim assist and bullet magnetism into a game that is H4 without sprint. Totally classic H2
>
> Still better gameplay-wise than H4 and H5 in my honest opinion. :innocent:

wow…H2A barely got above a bar set so low it’s practically in the ground

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> Halo being “run and gun” is an okay descriptor, but CE’s lack of health regeneration doesn’t encourage aggression (the run and gun part) as much as it could have. Halo 2’s faster shield recharge is pretty good though.

I don’t see how lack of regenerating health discourages run and gun. Quake and Unreal Tournament are the purest form of Run’n’Gun there is, and those games didn’t even have regenerating shields, let alone health.

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> > > > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
> > > >
> > > > Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.
> > >
> > > H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.
> >
> > How does it play nothing like Halo 2? I’d argue it’s the purest form of classic Halo since 3, minus the artstyle and hitmarkers.
>
> Combine a terrible game engine with poor weapon and sandbox design and insane aim assist and bullet magnetism into a game that is H4 without sprint. Totally classic H2

I concede to the aim assist, but I don’t understand why the engine is supposedly terrible, as everything seems to work fine. I also don’t see how you can call the sandbox design bad, as to me it feels like the most balanced sandbox out of any classic Halo, barring CE. A useful AR? Duel wielding is viable? Sounds pretty good to me.

H2A is H4 without sprint, or loadouts, OR insta-spawn, OR ordinance. Gameplay-wise, that just leaves the hitmarkers and grenade indicators, which hardly define the quality of a game. What more do need to make H2A acceptable to you? Is the mere idea that it is in any way associated with Halo 4 enough for you to call it a terrible game with zero redeeming qualities?

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> > > > > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.
> > > >
> > > > H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.
> > >
> > > How does it play nothing like Halo 2? I’d argue it’s the purest form of classic Halo since 3, minus the artstyle and hitmarkers.
> >
> > Combine a terrible game engine with poor weapon and sandbox design and insane aim assist and bullet magnetism into a game that is H4 without sprint. Totally classic H2
>
> I concede to the aim assist, but I don’t understand why the engine is supposedly terrible, as everything seems to work fine. I also don’t see how you can call the sandbox design bad, as to me it feels like the most balanced sandbox out of any classic Halo, barring CE. A useful AR? Duel wielding is viable? Sounds pretty good to me.
>
> H2A is H4 without sprint, or loadouts, OR insta-spawn, OR ordinance. Gameplay-wise, that just leaves the hitmarkers and grenade indicators, which hardly define the quality of a game. What more do need to make H2A acceptable to you? Is the mere idea that it is in any way associated with Halo 4 enough for you to call it a terrible game with zero redeeming qualities?

First paragraph is rubbish since most weapons are useless ( magnum, plasma rifles, PP, silenced SMG, fuel rod ) just because dual wielding is somewhat viable doesn’t make the game good ( especially if you are comparing it to H2 ) H3 is easily the most balanced with every weapon being useful with 1 or 2 exceptions ( the spiker ).

Second paragraph: yes, it’s a bad game engine that was stripped of any actual uniqueness to make a trash hybrid game that fails to appeal to H4 fans and classic fans alike. It plays nothing like a classic Halo as cross map sniping is the most prevalent ( combined with lackluster maps and horrid weapon balancing and feel ) in the series while hitmarkers and clunky mobility only serve to remind you of the chassis the game was built on. You can polish H4 all you want ( which is just a polished Reach ), but it’s still H4 and it’s still a giant stinking turd.

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> > > > > > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.
> > > > >
> > > > > H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.
> > > >
> > > > How does it play nothing like Halo 2? I’d argue it’s the purest form of classic Halo since 3, minus the artstyle and hitmarkers.
> > >
> > > Combine a terrible game engine with poor weapon and sandbox design and insane aim assist and bullet magnetism into a game that is H4 without sprint. Totally classic H2
> >
> > I concede to the aim assist, but I don’t understand why the engine is supposedly terrible, as everything seems to work fine. I also don’t see how you can call the sandbox design bad, as to me it feels like the most balanced sandbox out of any classic Halo, barring CE. A useful AR? Duel wielding is viable? Sounds pretty good to me.
> >
> > H2A is H4 without sprint, or loadouts, OR insta-spawn, OR ordinance. Gameplay-wise, that just leaves the hitmarkers and grenade indicators, which hardly define the quality of a game. What more do need to make H2A acceptable to you? Is the mere idea that it is in any way associated with Halo 4 enough for you to call it a terrible game with zero redeeming qualities?
>
> Blah blah blah blah.
>
> I love h2a. The campaign was freaking INSANELY amazing imo. Compared to H1A it is a godsend. They NAILED everything from music, to graphics, ambience… picking up dual SMG’s has NEVER felt so good. As for MP, I personally use a silenced SMG over assault rifle, farther shots… plasma pistol is fine if charged with noob combo, OP as heck. Dual wielding SMG and Plasma Rifle is a very potent combo… fuel rod wrecks in MP, at least when I use it. & magnum is ok if paired with a plasma weapon. Headshots are still 1 hit kill with no shields, no? Anywho, I think H2A feels almost identical to classic H2, with a few QoL improvements . ( hit marker anyone? ) I’ve got an old Xbox profile with a couple ten thousand kills or so in Halo 2 if you want to look it up on here for some OG proof :wink:

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> > > > > > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.
> > > > >
> > > > > H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.
> > > >
> > > > How does it play nothing like Halo 2? I’d argue it’s the purest form of classic Halo since 3, minus the artstyle and hitmarkers.
> > >
> > > Combine a terrible game engine with poor weapon and sandbox design and insane aim assist and bullet magnetism into a game that is H4 without sprint. Totally classic H2
> >
> > I concede to the aim assist, but I don’t understand why the engine is supposedly terrible, as everything seems to work fine. I also don’t see how you can call the sandbox design bad, as to me it feels like the most balanced sandbox out of any classic Halo, barring CE. A useful AR? Duel wielding is viable? Sounds pretty good to me.
> >
> > H2A is H4 without sprint, or loadouts, OR insta-spawn, OR ordinance. Gameplay-wise, that just leaves the hitmarkers and grenade indicators, which hardly define the quality of a game. What more do need to make H2A acceptable to you? Is the mere idea that it is in any way associated with Halo 4 enough for you to call it a terrible game with zero redeeming qualities?
>
> First paragraph is rubbish since most weapons are useless ( magnum, plasma rifles, PP, silenced SMG, fuel rod ) just because dual wielding is somewhat viable doesn’t make the game good ( especially if you are comparing it to H2 ) H3 is easily the most balanced with every weapon being useful with 1 or 2 exceptions ( the spiker ).
>
> Second paragraph: yes, it’s a bad game engine that was stripped of any actual uniqueness to make a trash hybrid game that fails to appeal to H4 fans and classic fans alike. It plays nothing like a classic Halo as cross map sniping is the most prevalent ( combined with lackluster maps and horrid weapon balancing and feel ) in the series while hitmarkers and clunky mobility only serve to remind you of the chassis the game was built on. You can polish H4 all you want ( which is just a polished Reach ), but it’s still H4 and it’s still a giant stinking turd.

The H2A pistol definitely feels more accurate and reliable than H2C’s.
The H2A plasma rifle wasn’t that bad, its H3 counterpart wasn’t so stellar, either.
The H2A plasma pistol is actually balanced compared to its classic counterpart and is now more in line with H3’s. Weaker, true, but far from useless.
The silenced SMG on its own easily out-damages a lot of things at crazy ranges and is definitely one of the most powerful duel-wieldable weapons in the game. I don’t know what brought you to the conclusion that it’s useless, because in my experience it’s quite the opposite.
The fuel rod works seemingly identically to its counterparts, how you see a rocket launcher in any form as useless is beyond me.

I find it hard to believe that out of every game in the franchise, H2A has the most prevalent cross-map sniping. How is it any worse than H2C, with the arguably worse OP BR problem, or CE, with the 15-minute draws in Hang 'em High? Or Reach and H4 in general with their DMR starts? I can think of far worse cross-mapping problems in other games than just H2A. At least in H2A, weapons which aren’t the BR still, in my experience, have a chance of winning.

How is the movement clunky? It feels the same as every other game to me. What kind of uniqueness are you looking for in your engines? It seems to have everything Halo 2 does in terms of content and gameplay, what more are you looking for?

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> > > > > > > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.
> > > > >
> > > > > How does it play nothing like Halo 2? I’d argue it’s the purest form of classic Halo since 3, minus the artstyle and hitmarkers.
> > > >
> > > > Combine a terrible game engine with poor weapon and sandbox design and insane aim assist and bullet magnetism into a game that is H4 without sprint. Totally classic H2
> >
> > Blah blah blah blah.
> >
> > I love h2a. The campaign was freaking INSANELY amazing imo. Compared to H1A it is a godsend. They NAILED everything from music, to graphics, ambience… picking up dual SMG’s has NEVER felt so good. As for MP, I personally use a silenced SMG over assault rifle, farther shots… plasma pistol is fine if charged with noob combo, OP as heck. Dual wielding SMG and Plasma Rifle is a very potent combo… fuel rod wrecks in MP, at least when I use it. & magnum is ok if paired with a plasma weapon. Headshots are still 1 hit kill with no shields, no? Anywho, I think H2A feels almost identical to classic H2, with a few QoL improvements . ( hit marker anyone? ) I’ve got an old Xbox profile with a couple ten thousand kills or so in Halo 2 if you want to look it up on here for some OG proof :wink:

I believe you’re responding to the wrong comment, bruv, I’m agreeing with you. Though hitmarkers as QoL is…debatable, at least for grenades.

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> > > > > > Increasing BMS is not the best idea. I’d argue the BMS increase is why Halo 5’s maps feel larger, not just sprint itself. Pointless thing to say though, everyone is already set in their views.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo 2 Anniversary is a joke? The refined Halo 2 isn’t considered a good game but Halo 2 itself is? Okay, I’m just going to stop here. No point in bothering with gameplay discussions on Waypoint since the metric is now impossible to meet.
> > > > >
> > > > > H2A isn’t refined H2, it plays nothing like H2 considering it’s poor mans H4.
> > > >
> > > > How does it play nothing like Halo 2? I’d argue it’s the purest form of classic Halo since 3, minus the artstyle and hitmarkers.
> > >
> > > Combine a terrible game engine with poor weapon and sandbox design and insane aim assist and bullet magnetism into a game that is H4 without sprint. Totally classic H2
> >
> > Still better gameplay-wise than H4 and H5 in my honest opinion. :innocent:
>
> wow…H2A barely got above a bar set so low it’s practically in the ground

Always felt H2A didn’t get the love it deserved. It’s lacking in content and feels like it needs a bit more refinement, plus we lost button glitches smh

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Like midship, still not h2a midship