The return of classic movement mechanics?

> 2533274793006817;5431:
> Your character is bigger and moves the same real world speed, therefore the player moves slower in game, which is why when people compare the two games they say CoD4 is more run and gun and Halo is more methodical.

CoD4 is not run and gun.
Halo is… was run and gun.
In CoD you literally need to stop running in order to shoot.
In classic Halo you could do both at the same time.
The frequently used term for CoD’s gameplay is “stop’n’pop”.
At best the term would have to be corrected to “run or gun”

> 2535422763112957;5440:
> I answer with usually a larger amount of content than I am given per point.

Is that so?
Shorter post than the one you replied to. (Also doesn’t address any of the arguments at all.)
Shorter post than the one you replied to. (Also false.)
Shorter post than the one you replied to. (Also dismissive.)
Shorter post than the one you replied to. (And once again dismissive.)
Shorter post than the one you replied to. (Although this one is actually a rather long post.)
Shorter post than the one you replied to. (And that is including your little rant about me not adressing completely unrelated points.)
Shorter post than the one you replied to.

> 2535422763112957;5440:
> This final sentence confuses me. I don’t rlly understand how one skips a post so if could elaborate on that it would be helpful

He means you.
You act offended when somebody doesn’t address every single word you wrote, while at the same time you ignore entire posts directed at you.

> 2533274793006817;5431:
> No, it was proven if those numbers are true. If you’re the size of Godzilla and you move the speed of a person, and everyone else is the size of Godzilla that is relatively very slow movement. You’re the size of a city block but it takes you a minute to move a city block you would be moving slowly relative to your size, yes or no? Despite moving at technically the same speed as a human, you are moving slowly because someone that size should be moving faster relative to their size. If you’re the size of an ant, and the opponent is the size of an ant and you move at human speed, you are moving at a much faster relative pace. Despite the fact that both are technically moving at the same speed, the movement as Godzilla would be relatively slower than as the size of an ant, correct?
> Now, you you say it’s easier to hit a target moving the same speed as a human if it were Godzilla or a human? How much faster would Godzilla have to move to make it the same relative difficulty as targeting a human. Much faster right? Wow. Amazing.
>
> OK, so Halo 3 is 7 foot tall Spartans. The characters in Call of Duty are 6 feet tall. Spartans are 16% taller, so to maintain the same relative speed as Call of Duty, they would need to move faster. They feel slower because they are slower, relative to their game and size.
>
> Still don’t believe me? OK, go play Counterstrike 1.6 on a stock map then go play on a levelord map. In a levelord-inspired map where your character is the size of a mouse. Now, on a stock map you move however many mph as a full sized person. On a levelord-inspired map where you the size of a mouse, your moon unit to real life measurements say you’re moving at a fraction of the prior speed as you do on a base map. How can that be when they feel the exact same? Because you are moving at the same speed relative to your size.
>
> This isn’t some “changing the goalpost” or “cop out” or other claim to make an excuse to ignore the argument; this is the entire point about arguing about player movement speed. Why would anybody even ever bring up speed ever if it wasn’t talking about how fast you move in the game? You character moves slower in Halo 3 than CoD4 regardless of what arbitrary moon units to real world theoretically says. Your character is bigger and moves the same real world speed, therefore the player moves slower in game, which is why when people compare the two games they say CoD4 is more run and gun and Halo is more methodical. Everybody in human history who has compared the two is not wrong, they just inherently understand the argument is about moving in game, not about a moon unit to real world translation devoid of context.

Forgive me but I have not taken the time to read the entire debate on this subject but I would like to chime in. It is interesting that you talk about relative perspective when talking about the perceived speed of a game. And I think you are right in that the size of your player character does negate some of the relevancy of a direct movement speed comparison between games. But then I would say what happens when you throw FOV (Field of View) into this equation. It also shifts your relative perspective of speed. I would say FOV really messes with this line of argument. I think a lot of the reason why Halo 3 in particular was perceived as a slow paced game was down to this reason, Halo 3 having the narrowest default FOV of any Halo game that I am aware. In fact now that FOV sliders has been added to MCC PC it has really illustrated how much it effects how fast a game feels. But there is more than that what effects the perception of game speed, the relative size of the map that the game is played on relative to the size of the player, the size of the gaps between cover, the layout of the map ( like whether it overlaps vertically or is just flat) etc. Even things like aim assist and projectile speeds can effect it. I think the more you delve in, the less the actual foot speed of the player effects the games pace. After all in the extreme you could have a space combat strategy game, where dog fights take place at relativistic speeds ( like maybe 0.5 the speed of light). But it could still be a slow paced strategic game, since the combat arenas might be several light minutes across.

So the question is how do you define a games pacing? Is it average actions per minute? The frequency of combat? How fast you can shoot another player to death? How fast the game makes you feel? Or how consistently you feel engaged when playing? I think a lot of people have a lot of different ways to define it, then talk about it as if it’s all the same thing.

I think one of the main appeals of Sprint is that it allows you to run into the action faster. But Ironically as evidenced by some prior posts it often takes longer to get into the action within games with Sprint than ones without. Be it down to map size or whatever. This suggests it isn’t the speed of getting into fights that’s appealing but something else. I think the simple reason is a good number of people find it more engaging to Sprint somewhere than to just run there at one speed with no tradeoffs. Be it because of the sense of agency, the emersion, the risk versus reward of deciding whether to sprint, the resource management of not running out of sprint when it is needed… there are reasons it’s a popular mechanic in many games. But is it good for Halo?

> 2533274825830455;5421:
> Thanks for mentioning the checkpoints and the metric system though. This made me think of the sniper scope and the distance it shows says about the units. So I set up two Xboxes in system link, went to Sandbox in Halo 3, and put my two players exactly 50 units apart (at least to the precision with which the coordinates are shown) at positions (-3.200,-33.999) and (-3.200,16.001), and the sniper scope showed 152.63. Now, if the 1:10 conversion was true, this would be 152.4. This extra 23 centimeters might be difference in vertical positions because the ground on Sandbox is kinda bumpy, though I doubt it because at a distance this long it shouldn’t make that much of a difference. My guess is that it is because the sniper rifle scope doesn’t measure the distance between the players, but the distance between the sniper rifle and the player. Anyway, this demonstrates that in Halo 3 the 1:10 conversion is good at least to within one part in 600.

One late addition to the distances / speeds discussion:
I went into Halo CE on MCC PC and recorded myself running towards a nav point.
Frame counting allowed to determine Chief’s speed at ~6.83m/s, agreeing with the 1:10 feet conversion.
At 60FPS, the precision on the time is 0.017s (1/60th) and the precision in distance is given by the nav point, 0.1m.
I can only speculate as to why previous measurements with the same method yielded 7m/s, but my best guess is that - as I had to rely on the XBone’s capture feature without a PC version to work with - the 30FPS recordings worsened the precision on the result.

> 2533274825830455;5414:
> > 2535407747275549;5413:
> > No it wasn’t halo 3 had 2.3 million players for like 3 years including the year that cod 4 released in and besides why are we talking about cod to begin with ???
>
> - 2.3 million players by what metric? The highest number of unique users within 24 hours in Halo 3 on record is about 1.65 million right after release of ODST. The typical number of unique users in 24 hours was around 800,000 in the 2008–2009 period. In 2010 it was around 600,000. See this graph. - CoD was overall more popular than Halo since the start of 2008. During most weeks in 2008 CoD 4 had more weekly unique users than Halo 3 had. After WaW released, it split the total CoD population, and Halo spent the majority of weeks as the most played game on XBL. However, it’s highly likely given the success of CoD 4 in the previous year that the combined population of CoD 4 and WaW was higher than that of Halo 3 individually. After the release of MW2, Halo was never again the most played game on XBL. The relevant data is here.Halo 3 was exceptionally popular, and did extremely well given how popular CoD was. But I don’t think we benefit from pretending that Halo 3 was completely unbeatable. CoD being more popular doesn’t make Halo 3 a failure.

Cod was a multiplat so it’s a bad comparison to begin with

> 2535407747275549;5446:
> > 2533274825830455;5414:
> > > 2535407747275549;5413:
> > > No it wasn’t halo 3 had 2.3 million players for like 3 years including the year that cod 4 released in and besides why are we talking about cod to begin with ???
> >
> > - 2.3 million players by what metric? The highest number of unique users within 24 hours in Halo 3 on record is about 1.65 million right after release of ODST. The typical number of unique users in 24 hours was around 800,000 in the 2008–2009 period. In 2010 it was around 600,000. See this graph. - CoD was overall more popular than Halo since the start of 2008. During most weeks in 2008 CoD 4 had more weekly unique users than Halo 3 had. After WaW released, it split the total CoD population, and Halo spent the majority of weeks as the most played game on XBL. However, it’s highly likely given the success of CoD 4 in the previous year that the combined population of CoD 4 and WaW was higher than that of Halo 3 individually. After the release of MW2, Halo was never again the most played game on XBL. The relevant data is here.Halo 3 was exceptionally popular, and did extremely well given how popular CoD was. But I don’t think we benefit from pretending that Halo 3 was completely unbeatable. CoD being more popular doesn’t make Halo 3 a failure.
>
> Cod was a multiplat so it’s a bad comparison to begin with

And thanks for the graph still a very large player base

> 2535407747275549;5446:
> Cod was a multiplat so it’s a bad comparison to begin with

I don’t see how that is supposed to be relevant.

It feels a bit like the thread is getting a little off-topic. I know people are trying to explain how new/old movement mechanics are good/bad for sales, but from my point of view, that holds no real weight. Halo should try to fill its own niche, not chase the competition. Constantly trying to remind the audience of something else, is how you liquidate your appeal, and disappear into an ocean of other FPS games. At the same time, appealing to tradition simply because “That’s how it’s always been.” is also not a sufficient defense. Appealing to tradition is a logical fallacy that shows a lack of understanding and knowledge on the proponent’s side. They have decided on their personal comfort zone, and have not put in the effort to understand why that comfort zone may be, or is, good or bad for themselves, and/or for others. It’s a particularly disastrous stance when there are clear, truly objective issues with the traditional system being referred to, but this is getting away from Halo…

Halo’s gameplay was defined by rhythm and commitment. This isn’t quite replicated by any other video game. The predictable speed at which an opponent can move, helps you plan ahead on the fly. The methodical approach is closer to Doom, than other games, but the 2 weapon limit forces you to plan your playstyle ahead of time, instead of reacting to/countering things as they happen, and the lower speed makes it more accessible, yet at the same time, makes it much more tactical than Doom. This isn’t about Halo simply staying traditional, it’s about Halo playing like Halo.

As heresy as it is, I find it very hard to believe that Halo’s popularity decline came from additions like sprint, or even any gameplay alterations. The Halo player base has tolerated terrible mechanics throughout the entire run, a different speed could/has damaged gameplay, but what’s with the appeal to popularity I keep seeing here? That shouldn’t even matter, discussions on gameplay mechanics should be on the mechanics itself, because arguably the majority likes terrible balancing and maps. It just sounds like there wasn’t an incentive to stay after 2010, and yes, subjectively good gameplay and incentives are related at times, but this is a franchise where multiplayer was broken (Halo 2) or had terrible bullet spread (Halo 3), and we all tolerated it. I know I’m essentially saying most players care about the experience more than the actual gameplay mechanics, but Halo 2 Anniversary, a much more refined version of Halo 2, apparently is the least popular title in MCC. And I doubt it’s because of the sniper rifle being too easy.

As for sprint itself, I think there’s a certain appeal to the momentum jumps and speed that doesn’t involve making the base speed absurd (Though Halo 5 does both for some reason). I am curious if it’s possible to replicate all the effects with a thruster pack. However, removing the weapon draw animation entirely (Infinite might be doing this) is a step in the right direction. Wish thruster was kept though.

> 2533274801176260;5442:
> > 2533274793006817;5431:
> > Your character is bigger and moves the same real world speed, therefore the player moves slower in game, which is why when people compare the two games they say CoD4 is more run and gun and Halo is more methodical.
>
> CoD4 is not run and gun.
> Halo is… was run and gun.
> In CoD you literally need to stop running in order to shoot.
> In classic Halo you could do both at the same time.
> The frequently used term for CoD’s gameplay is “stop’n’pop”.
> At best the term would have to be corrected to “run or gun”

I know this is pointless bc someone in power is just going to block my post anyway, but all I’ll say to this nonsense is that Halo is not run n gun. You can not run therefore you can not run n gun. You can walk and gun and that’s about it. The fastest your guy moves in Halo is embarrassed-by-your-kids,-trying-to-leave-the-supermarket walking speed. Hipfire and bumrushing can be very effective in COD because of how relatively fast the player moves. You can’t bumrush in Halo and win ever. Not without greater numbers on your side. If you bumrush in Halo by yourself you lose the 1v1 because you never close the distance and just get caught in the open. That’s literally why they had to add super-lunging to the sword because without it it was useless. When they added lunging even remotely close to Halo in MW2 with commando pro perk, it was considered super-OP because you could close the distance like crazy because of the speed. You can rush in COD, you can’t in Halo because your guy is just too slow.

And stop n pop was what they called Gears of War gameplay. Take it from someone who was actually there and old enough to remember; that was Gears. That was 2006. Gears came out the year before COD4. That was Cliffy B popularizing the term. You’re just going to have to eat the L on that one. It’s non-negotiable. You’re thinking of Gears.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

This whole thread is so cringe.

> 2533274793006817;5451:
> I know this is pointless bc someone in power is just going to block my post anyway, but all I’ll say to this nonsense is that Halo is not run n gun.

Run 'n Gun is regarded as being able to use all combat capabilities while having no restrictions on movement.

> 2533274793006817;5451:
> You can not run therefore you can not run n gun. You can walk and gun and that’s about it. The fastest your guy moves in Halo is embarrassed-by-your-kids,-trying-to-leave-the-supermarket walking speed.

I’d like to see those kids you have at your supermarket use weaponry with pin-point accuracy at the speeds we move in Halo.
Or keep those speeds for as long as Spartans are able to.
The world record for 10km is 26:24, and that’s slower than a spartan from the original Halo trilogy.

But, sure, this is “walking”.

This is of course disregarding everything in terms of gameplay design, because in the extended lore, Spartans move far faster than even sprint speeds in game.

> 2535442569875751;5450:
> As heresy as it is, I find it very hard to believe that Halo’s popularity decline came from additions like sprint, or even any gameplay alterations. The Halo player base has tolerated terrible mechanics throughout the entire run, a different speed could/has damaged gameplay, but what’s with the appeal to popularity I keep seeing here? That shouldn’t even matter, discussions on gameplay mechanics should be on the mechanics itself, because arguably the majority likes terrible balancing and maps. It just sounds like there wasn’t an incentive to stay after 2010, and yes, subjectively good gameplay and incentives are related at times, but this is a franchise where multiplayer was broken (Halo 2) or had terrible bullet spread (Halo 3), and we all tolerated it. I know I’m essentially saying most players care about the experience more than the actual gameplay mechanics, but Halo 2 Anniversary, a much more refined version of Halo 2, apparently is the least popular title in MCC. And I doubt it’s because of the sniper rifle being too easy.
>
> As for sprint itself, I think there’s a certain appeal to the momentum jumps and speed that doesn’t involve making the base speed absurd (Though Halo 5 does both for some reason). I am curious if it’s possible to replicate all the effects with a thruster pack. However, removing the weapon draw animation entirely (Infinite might be doing this) is a step in the right direction. Wish thruster was kept though.

H2 MP wasn’t broken, and H3’s MP was more than the sum of the BR’s spread.
First Halo faltered with Reach, killing the competitive community ( which kills long term interest )
Then H4 killed the majority through mechanics that made no sense, like sprint and loadouts and lost all it’s population over the course of a year.
And finally H5 chased new trends, ignoring classic fans while making a game so sweaty that it’s just unaccessible and unfun to play.

> 2535458188883243;5454:
> > 2535442569875751;5450:
> >
>
> H2 MP wasn’t broken, and H3’s MP was more than the sum of the BR’s spread.
> First Halo faltered with Reach, killing the competitive community ( which kills long term interest )
> Then H4 killed the majority through mechanics that made no sense, like sprint and loadouts and lost all it’s population over the course of a year.
> And finally H5 chased new trends, ignoring classic fans while making a game so sweaty that it’s just unaccessible and unfun to play.

Halo 2’s multiplayer being broken was part of the competitive appeal. Ignoring exploits, it’s also the game where you can 4 shot someone by aiming at the lower body. Halo 3’s issues go beyond random spread. Equipment, maps, broken hit detection (MCC amplifies the latter but it was always there), but yet people stayed. So how can something like armor abilities cause a franchise decline if everything after CE was always, relatively speaking, nonsense?

Halo’s gameplay innovation to the wider genre stops after CE. Halo’s other impactful innovations came in the form of improving the social experience. The matchmaking system in 2, and the file share of Halo 3, all of which add to the gameplay experience and kept players coming back. Everyone notes that Reach is the first to add sprint, but Reach is the also the first to stop influencing the industry. What trends can Halo set at this point? It’s just refinements on the existing systems. Even Infinite isn’t really trying anything special so far.

Halo at its worst gameplay is still fine all things considered. It’s accessible, it’s fun enough. Is sprint bad? I guess, but I doubt it affected the player base longevity beyond forums being filled with more posts.

> 2533274793006817;5451:
> You can not run therefore you can not run n gun.

Chief is always running in classic Halo. As he’s a super soldier, he doesn’t have to slow down in order to use his guns like regular John Doe does.

> 2533274793006817;5451:
> The fastest your guy moves in Halo is embarrassed-by-your-kids,-trying-to-leave-the-supermarket walking speed.

Base Movement Speed in the games is 2/3rds of Usain Bolt’s world record, and you’re still able to accurately shoot a gun at that velocity.
I’d love for you to show me a person in the supermarket going this fast…

> 2533274793006817;5451:
> And stop n pop was what they called Gears of War gameplay. Take it from someone who was actually there and old enough to remember; that was Gears. That was 2006. Gears came out the year before COD4. That was Cliffy B popularizing the term. You’re just going to have to eat the L on that one. It’s non-negotiable. You’re thinking of Gears.

No, I’m not. I don’t care what Bleszinsky or anybody else called their game (they also called it an “Arena shooter” at some point, so their opinion is less than worthless).
Take it from someone who was actually there and old enough to remember: CoD had sprint since Part 3, released on the exact same day as Gears (Nov 7th, 2006). It has since been a term to discribe CoD’s gameplay for one-and-a-half decades, used even in games journalism:

> Meanwhile, combat is your standard Call of Duty stop-and-pop shooting gallery

https://www.ign.com/articles/call-of-duty-black-ops-cold-war-campaign-review-2.

You’re just going to have to eat the L on that one. It’s non-negotiable. Halo is Run’n’Gun. CoD is Stop’n’Pop.

> 2533274793006817;5451:
> You can not run therefore you can not run n gun. You can walk and gun and that’s about it. The fastest your guy moves in Halo is embarrassed-by-your-kids,-trying-to-leave-the-supermarket walking speed.

So make it go faster. What’s the issue here?

I’m pretty sure you, me, and a lot of people in this thread are in agreement that if sprint is to be removed, increasing the base movement speed would be at least an acceptable implementation. If that’s the case, what’s the point of bringing up speed at all? Both “sides” of the argument are already willing to increase the player’s movement speed to some capacity.

Unless Halo 5’s sprinting speed is also too slow to be considered “run n gun”, but at that point I’m going to ask what is the minimum required speed to claim such a term.

> 2535442569875751;5455:
> > 2535458188883243;5454:
> > > 2535442569875751;5450:
> > >
> >
> > H2 MP wasn’t broken, and H3’s MP was more than the sum of the BR’s spread.
> > First Halo faltered with Reach, killing the competitive community ( which kills long term interest )
> > Then H4 killed the majority through mechanics that made no sense, like sprint and loadouts and lost all it’s population over the course of a year.
> > And finally H5 chased new trends, ignoring classic fans while making a game so sweaty that it’s just unaccessible and unfun to play.
>
> Halo 2’s multiplayer being broken was part of the competitive appeal. Ignoring exploits, it’s also the game where you can 4 shot someone by aiming at the lower body. Halo 3’s issues go beyond random spread. Equipment, maps, broken hit detection (MCC amplifies the latter but it was always there), but yet people stayed. So how can something like armor abilities cause a franchise decline if everything after CE was always, relatively speaking, nonsense?
>
> Halo’s gameplay innovation to the wider genre stops after CE. Halo’s other impactful innovations came in the form of improving the social experience. The matchmaking system in 2, and the file share of Halo 3, all of which add to the gameplay experience and kept players coming back. Everyone notes that Reach is the first to add sprint, but Reach is the also the first to stop influencing the industry. What trends can Halo set at this point? It’s just refinements on the existing systems. Even Infinite isn’t really trying anything special so far.
>
> Halo at its worst gameplay is still fine all things considered. It’s accessible, it’s fun enough. Is sprint bad? I guess, but I doubt it affected the player base longevity beyond forums being filled with more posts.

H2’s MP is not broken, it works fine aside from a select few glitches, also you will never 4 shot someone by shooting the body.
As for your second paragraph, does Forge, custom games, theatre and improvements to MM not count? Halo doesn’t need to set trends, just stop following them.
Sprint does affect player longevity as classic fans are significantly less likely to play and stay, which cuts down the playerbase considerably while the game overall becomes unfun as it tries to appeal to combat speed and sprint speed.

> 2535458188883243;5458:
> > 2535442569875751;5455:
> > > 2535458188883243;5454:
> > > > 2535442569875751;5450:
> > > >
>
> H2’s MP is not broken, it works fine aside from a select few glitches, also you will never 4 shot someone by shooting the body.
> As for your second paragraph, does Forge, custom games, theatre and improvements to MM not count? Halo doesn’t need to set trends, just stop following them.
> Sprint does affect player longevity as classic fans are significantly less likely to play and stay, which cuts down the playerbase considerably while the game overall becomes unfun as it tries to appeal to combat speed and sprint speed.

Evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFN9Sv2fumIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPZsDz3yQ3oA lot of Halo’s features added were good, but in terms of improvements to the wider genre, there were only a few and to me (can’t exactly prove this, no one can), those innovations are what caused Halo to be the top played multiplayer game (2’s matchmaking system, and the whole set of new features in Halo 3). Correlating impactful changes to the FPS genre and game population makes a lot more sense than correlating movement options to game population.

Halo being “run and gun” is an okay descriptor, but CE’s lack of health regeneration doesn’t encourage aggression (the run and gun part) as much as it could have. Halo 2’s faster shield recharge is pretty good though.

> 2535442569875751;5459:
> > 2535458188883243;5458:
> > > 2535442569875751;5455:
> > > > 2535458188883243;5454:
> > > > > 2535442569875751;5450:
> > > > >
> >
> > H2’s MP is not broken, it works fine aside from a select few glitches, also you will never 4 shot someone by shooting the body.
> > As for your second paragraph, does Forge, custom games, theatre and improvements to MM not count? Halo doesn’t need to set trends, just stop following them.
> > Sprint does affect player longevity as classic fans are significantly less likely to play and stay, which cuts down the playerbase considerably while the game overall becomes unfun as it tries to appeal to combat speed and sprint speed.
>
> Evidence:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFN9Sv2fumIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPZsDz3yQ3oA lot of Halo’s features added were good, but in terms of improvements to the wider genre, there were only a few and to me (can’t exactly prove this, no one can), those innovations are what caused Halo to be the top played multiplayer game (2’s matchmaking system, and the whole set of new features in Halo 3). Correlating impactful changes to the FPS genre and game population makes a lot more sense than correlating movement options to game population.
>
> Halo being “run and gun” is an okay descriptor, but CE’s lack of health regeneration doesn’t encourage aggression (the run and gun part) as much as it could have. Halo 2’s faster shield recharge is pretty good though.

Those appear to be H2 pre-patch and not current MCC or classic H2 as those sword lunges and BR spread don’t work current. If innovation is all that matters for a games population than COD should have died long ago, so clearly it’s not the innovation in the gaming landscape that decides popularity.
Have you ever played CE? CE is the most aggressive in the franchise, health regen doesn’t matter when powerups and power weapons are on set timers and must be taken before the enemy gets it.

> 2535458188883243;5460:
> > 2535442569875751;5459:
> > > 2535458188883243;5458:
> > > > 2535442569875751;5455:
> > > > > 2535458188883243;5454:
> > > > > > 2535442569875751;5450:
> > > > > >
>
> Those appear to be H2 pre-patch and not current MCC or classic H2 as those sword lunges and BR spread don’t work current. If innovation is all that matters for a games population than COD should have died long ago, so clearly it’s not the innovation in the gaming landscape that decides popularity.
> Have you ever played CE? CE is the most aggressive in the franchise, health regen doesn’t matter when powerups and power weapons are on set timers and must be taken before the enemy gets it.

Pre-Patch Halo 2 was still a significant period of time. It was like, 6 months? Pretty sure Halo 2 grew in the time period of all things. 6 months of sword lunging across the map. (Anyone know if the Battle Rifle change was intentional, I can’t see anything about it in old patch notes).

CE is good but it could be better. Most players are not encouraged to push forward because there’s barely anything telling them to. Like, quick camo is intentional, but good luck to the average player figuring that out.

Wider innovation matters for Halo, because Halo’s gameplay itself isn’t as mass appeal as Call of Duty. I’m guessing Halo’s super popularity was propped up by other things back then. Even with changes Halo always had that niche feeling. If we assume that Halo still has potential to be mass appeal, then there’s definitely a lack of incentive to keep playing, because Halo 2 Anniversary is still the least popular in MCC. And Halo 5’s warzone wasn’t as popular as Call of Duty’s…warzone.