The return of classic movement mechanics?

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> > > > > I hope you can appreciate the irony of calling someone else’s post ironic, criticizing their claim for being unsupported by evidence, and then representing your own claim without any evidence to support it either.
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> > > > > > @tsassi: Would you be opposed to being able to shoot while sprinting with certain guns, like SMGs and pistols?
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> > > > > I don’t want any limitations to my ability to perform actions when moving at maximum speed, whatsoever. That should answer your question.
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> > > > > But would you like to answer my question now? If not, why? I think this was the third time I asked it in this thread, and it almost starts to seem like you’re trying to avoid it.
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> > > > Also if I’ve replied to you and FightingChances at length and am still waiting for you guys to reply to multiple points of mine but I’m not demanding that you do so either. Why should anyone be expected to respond to every single point anyway?
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> Are you sure? I’ve responded to every single point you’ve had so far. Your last reply to me was two days ago. I’ve responded to that one. It’s common decency to respond in some manner to points that are brought up or made in a debate, otherwise it shows you have no confidence in your own position. It’s admirable as debaters to admit to not have answers to any point brought up as well. I’m sorry for bringing the people in my notifications into the debate, but I needed to show xBalancedForcex that I have responded to everything he’s replied with already.
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> EvilKeny, I’ve asked what they could bring to the discussion and how presenting the pros and cons of various compromises, including my own, are “all or nothing” solutions to the issue of sprint.

I don’t really understand how presenting Pros and Cons of different possibilities are “all or nothing” solutions for Sprint.
Am I missing something? Or are you just as confused as I?

[deleted]

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> > > > > > > I hope you can appreciate the irony of calling someone else’s post ironic, criticizing their claim for being unsupported by evidence, and then representing your own claim without any evidence to support it either.
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> > > > > > > > @tsassi: Would you be opposed to being able to shoot while sprinting with certain guns, like SMGs and pistols?
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> > > > > > > I don’t want any limitations to my ability to perform actions when moving at maximum speed, whatsoever. That should answer your question.
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> > > > > > > But would you like to answer my question now? If not, why? I think this was the third time I asked it in this thread, and it almost starts to seem like you’re trying to avoid it.
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> > > > > > Also if I’ve replied to you and FightingChances at length and am still waiting for you guys to reply to multiple points of mine but I’m not demanding that you do so either. Why should anyone be expected to respond to every single point anyway?
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> > > Are you sure? I’ve responded to every single point you’ve had so far. Your last reply to me was two days ago. I’ve responded to that one. It’s common decency to respond in some manner to points that are brought up or made in a debate, otherwise it shows you have no confidence in your own position. It’s admirable as debaters to admit to not have answers to any point brought up as well. I’m sorry for bringing the people in my notifications into the debate, but I needed to show xBalancedForcex that I have responded to everything he’s replied with already.
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> > > EvilKeny, I’ve asked what they could bring to the discussion and how presenting the pros and cons of various compromises, including my own, are “all or nothing” solutions to the issue of sprint.
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> > I don’t really understand how presenting Pros and Cons of different possibilities are “all or nothing” solutions for Sprint.
> > Am I missing something? Or are you just as confused as I?
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> I’m just as confused as you, honestly. To be fair, it probably has to do with how I worded my gameplay compromise. Even with presenting some of its pros and cons, I did say it seemed to be the best way to bridge both new and old Halo, after all. That’s what most likely got BalancedForce to respond that way.

Is this referring to your Compromise thread you made?
If so then I have a question. How would you make it possible to both Equipment + Abilities on the Map? With Equipment and Weapons the maps in Halo 3 felt quite full for the most part, so how could these armour abilities be introduced in a way that makes it so that everyone can make use of an Ability without making the map feel cluttered?

Also what are your thoughts on intractable environments? Some Maps in the past have had some very basic implementations of this concept, but what about making it more prominent as a method for map control or changing the dynamic of the map?

[deleted]

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> We’ve suffered through three AAA Halo titles with just one BMS and we were set free from those chains once Bungie finally added in sprint to Halo.

I’d bet money you never even thought of sprint while playing CE when the original came out if you even played it during that time. It’s probably no coincidence that I’ve never even heard of a sprint complaint until this post. And rofl at suffering…

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> > We’ve suffered through three AAA Halo titles with just one BMS and we were set free from those chains once Bungie finally added in sprint to Halo.
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> I’d bet money you never even thought of sprint while playing CE when the original came out if you even played it during that time. It’s probably no coincidence that I’ve never even heard of a sprint complaint until this post. And rofl at suffering…

I doubt he’s even played a classic Halo game.

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> I doubt he’s even played a classic Halo game.

Well that’s rather presumptuous… And false on multiple levels

  1. Most pro sprinters have played the classic Halo games. We just strongly prefer the advanced movement mechanics.

  2. What makes you think I’m a “he,” simply because I want to keep sprint in Halo??

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> > We’ve suffered through three AAA Halo titles with just one BMS and we were set free from those chains once Bungie finally added in sprint to Halo.
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> I’d bet money you never even thought of sprint while playing CE when the original came out if you even played it during that time. It’s probably no coincidence that I’ve never even heard of a sprint complaint until this post. And rofl at suffering

I know, right? If people were ‘suffering’ through the first half of the franchise, then how did it last this long? If a lack of sprint in earlier Halo games caused ‘suffering,’ why do so many people want sprint removed? I guess classic Halo fans like to suffer when playing their games…

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> Well that’s rather presumptuous… And false on multiple levels
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> 1) Most pro sprinters have played the classic Halo games. We just strongly prefer the advanced movement mechanics.
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> 2) What makes you think I’m a “he,” simply because I want to keep sprint in Halo??

  1. How the heck did you manage to stick with halo for more than a decade in spite of wanting a fundamental change in movement in its gameplay? Besides, I’ve never read any significant complaints about the trilogy requiring sprint to function within those eras and within those dedicated Halo forums at the time, only after the fact when we started deviating from our original formula from Reach onwards.

  2. That’s rather a false cause. He presumed, just like most other in people in this forum, that you were a guy, simply because there are not many female halo fans, let alone women who actually post on Halo forums.

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> > I doubt he’s even played a classic Halo game.
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> Well that’s rather presumptuous… And false on multiple levels
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> 1) Most pro sprinters have played the classic Halo games. We just strongly prefer the advanced movement mechanics.
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> 2) What makes you think I’m a “he,” simply because I want to keep sprint in Halo??

  1. If you wanted sprint in Halo from the beginning then why would you have stuck with this damn franchise this long. Sprint isn’t even needed in Halo and it breaks the golden triangle of Halo. “Without sprint we would have to walk slow and it would take a long time to get around maps.” Not an argument. To move around the maps faster, Bungie added teleporters, man cannons, and vehicles to get to one part of the map to the other faster. All sprint does is prevents you from shooting your weapon, prevents you from throwing grenades, performing melees, and stops your shield from recharging, this breaks the golden triangle of Halo and makes you a sitting duck for camping players who have complete control over their gun and shield.

  2. I just assumed that you were male because most Halo players are male.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> > Of course this post is going to have very diverse opinions. Most of the people who still frequent the forums of Halo Waypoint actually like the new Halo games. All 5000 of them. Its very misleading considering there are tens of millions of Halo fans who left because Halo turned into a blend of every other console shooter in the last 5 years.
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> How ironic. Clearly the ones who want revert back to the older, outdated movement system are the outspoken minority who come take to forums to gripe about not wanting sprint. Your skewed notion that “Tens of millions of Halo fans,” somehow left because of movement mechanics is ridiculous and there will always zero evidence to support such a claim because it’s false. Sprint has actually pulled more fans into the franchise because people like the option to walk or run in Halo, versus being stuck with one boring and repetitive BMS such as with the MCC. And thankfully more and more true fans are flooding to these forums to debunk those false claims that sprint is somehow bad for gameplay. Sprint is exactly what Halo Infinite needs to be the successful, next-level title that it needs to be.

I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone right now. You can’t be as stupid as you sound, so please explain yourself further so I can figure out where we are getting a disconnect.

How does your argument make any sense at all? First off, I’m not in the minority. Please go to any **non-**Halo related gaming forum (aka any gaming forum that’s not dedicated to modern Halo fans) and ask the people what they think about sprint in Halo. You will get a 75-80% negative poling. I know this because I’ve done it multiple times in the last week. I strongly strongly encourage you to. And 343 for that matter.

I don’t have any evidence to support that 10s of millions of people left because of sprint? Look at Halo 3’s daily online players THREE years into the games lifespan, then look at Halo 5’s, OH WAIT YOU CANT BECAUSE THEY STARTED HIDING THEM WHEN THEY GOT DOWN TO 5K ONLINE AT A TIME.
I’m sure your counter argument is that there are way more options today and that H2/3’s successes couldnt be matched today, and to that I’d say look at Fortnight.
“Well Fortnight is new.”
Look at Counter Strike. Same exact formula for over 10 years and their online numbers at any time of the day, every single day, beats the -Yoink- out of anything Halo has put up in 5 years. Oh, and incase you didnt know, there is no sprint, or ground and pound, or shoulder charge in CSGO. It’s simple, like Halo used to be, and subsequently one of the most successful mulitplayer shooters ever.

And the stupiest thing you said in this quote, “Sprint has actually pulled more fans into the franchise because people like the option to walk or run in Halo…”
That might be the dumbest thing I’ve seen on the internet in a year. For one, considering the player population since sprint was added has dropped by about 95% , literally over 95% (That’s a lot), and for two, please direct me to one person who saw that Halo added sprint and said “Hey look this game has sprint, Ive gotta play a game that has sprint in it! That’s revolutionary!!!”

You aren’t dubunking anything, you just sound stupid.

Simple fact is, Halo has all but died since sprint and all this other -Yoink- has been added, and Halo was the biggest multiplayer shooter on the market BEFORE it was added. There is no angle you can take to argue that statement. You are the minority. You and the other 5000 people who still play Halo. Everyone else still buys all the games, but we want to play a Halo game. Not a blend of every shooter ever made.

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> > Well that’s rather presumptuous… And false on multiple levels
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> > 1) Most pro sprinters have played the classic Halo games. We just strongly prefer the advanced movement mechanics.
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> > 2) What makes you think I’m a “he,” simply because I want to keep sprint in Halo??
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> 1) How the heck did you manage to stick with halo for more than a decade in spite of wanting a fundamental change in movement in its gameplay? Besides, I’ve never read any significant complaints about the trilogy requiring sprint to function within those eras and within those dedicated Halo forums at the time, only after the fact when we started deviating from our original formula from Reach onwards.
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> - As I’ve stated before, the classic Halos were good because of a multitude of other factors to include character development, good story telling, better MP maps, etc. Sprint was a long awaited mechanic that finally liberated us from that same old pace. Simply put, we didn’t really know what we were missing out on until sprint finally made its debut in Halo with Reach.

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> 2) That’s rather a false cause. He presumed, just like most other in people in this forum, that you were a guy, simply because there are not many female halo fans, let alone women who actually post on Halo forums.
> - Are you really suggesting it’s a “false cause,” for me to be me? All I said was it was presumptuous (which you actually confirmed here). Also snickerdoodle is one of the longest standing and most respected members of these forums and she’s been here since the beginning so why should females in the forums be a foreign concept?

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> > > I doubt he’s even played a classic Halo game.
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> > Well that’s rather presumptuous… And false on multiple levels
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> > 1) Most pro sprinters have played the classic Halo games. We just strongly prefer the advanced movement mechanics.
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> > 2) What makes you think I’m a “he,” simply because I want to keep sprint in Halo??
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> 1. If you wanted sprint in Halo from the beginning then why would you have stuck with this damn franchise this long. Sprint isn’t even needed in Halo and it breaks the golden triangle of Halo. “Without sprint we would have to walk slow and it would take a long time to get around maps.” Not an argument. To move around the maps faster, Bungie added teleporters, man cannons, and vehicles to get to one part of the map to the other faster. All sprint does is prevents you from shooting your weapon, prevents you from throwing grenades, performing melees, and stops your shield from recharging, this breaks the golden triangle of Halo and makes you a sitting duck for camping players who have complete control over their gun and shield.
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> - **Looking back I guess I’d say I just put up without sprint because I didn’t know what I was missing. Once sprint finally made its way into Halo with Reach it was truly liberating and I never want to turn back.**2. I just assumed that you were male because most Halo players are male.
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> - Understandable and no offense taken.

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> - As I’ve stated before, the classic Halos were good because of a multitude of other factors to include character development, good story telling, better MP maps, etc. Sprint was a long awaited mechanic that finally liberated us from that same old pace. Simply put, we didn’t really know what we were missing out on until sprint finally made its debut in Halo with Reach. - Are you really suggesting it’s a “false cause,” for me to be me? All I said was it was presumptuous (which you actually confirmed here). Also snickerdoodle is one of the longest standing and most respected members of these forums and she’s been here since the beginning so why should females in the forums be a foreign concept?

As tsassi has constructively pointed out, you really haven’t explained “what we were missing out on” with the inclusion of sprint compared to a faster BMS. No point in discussing this further.

I was more directly referring to “What makes you think I’m a “he,” simply because I want to keep sprint in Halo??” As the OP explained, he figured you were male because of how most posters here are male. Your mentioning of Snickerdoodle is literally only one example of a female poster out of the thousands of members here. Obviously, it’s still gonna be a foreign concept of having females in this Halo forum if there’s only 2 of you to point out.

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> I’ve filled up the character limit with respectful, complete, and earnestly open-minded responses to anti sprinters multiple times. I’m completely open to a two-sided discussion but you have to understand where pro sprinters are coming from. We’ve suffered through three AAA Halo titles with just one BMS and we were set free from those chains once Bungie finally added in sprint to Halo. Sprint is something we truly enjoy in halo and I’ve offered up several in-depth points to support keeping sprint in Halo (Along with multiple, full line-by-line replies to A6ENT C, FightingChances, and others in this thread). On the other hand I’ve met other types of short sighted replies with the exact same anti sprint logic they’re using but I’m somehow being singled out? Again (and with all due respect) it seems really unfair and bias to target someone who responds to others with the exact same line of reasoning but avoiding to take any issue with the “flawed logic,” which started it.

It’s just that you seem to be eager to discuss anything but the mechanics. I’ve read your line-by-line responses, and most of the concern the tone of this debat, how you believe the opponents of advanceed movement act, and so on. The only times I found you saying anything about the mechanics themselves in your line-by-line replies are

> -Definitely not. The general pacing in Halo 4 and Halo 5 were absolutely “Halo-feeling,” IMO and sprint does nothing to hamper the experience. I’m sorry you did not enjoy those games as much as I did but without sprint I think they would have worse games.

in response to the claim that advanced movement breaks the general pacing of the game, and

> Moving slower is beneath being able to run. We had one BMS to use as examples in CE, H2, and H3 and it was redundant, slow, and boring. Those games are great because of so many other elements, but one static BMS was not among them.

Neither of these go to great depth about your feelings towards these mechanics. They assert things, but don’t try to explain the reasoning behind those assertions, which is the most important part.

Explaining things is hard, and I know most people here, including me, would rather just say things without trying to explain why they think so. I could direct the same criticism at many of the posts criticizing advanced movement mechanics, but that’s less of an issue for me personally, because I know all the arguments, and I know how these people think. If you think we haven’t done good job of explaining ourselves, you can raise the same criticism at us and ask for more explanations. However, I’m focusing on you in particular, because when I ask you to elaborate, you dodge my questions. That’s not a way of having a debate. When someone asks you a direct question, you respond to it.

Frankly, I have more issues with the pro-advanced movement side than those against it, because I know that even though most people don’t contribute much value to the discussion (and this is true of any online debate), I know that there are at least people willing to go to great depths to explain their views when the need comes. For example, when The Raging Pagan asked for arguments for removal of advanced mobility, we didn’t beat around the bush saying that others have made good arguments, we delivered, twice. I don’t ever really see that kind of in-depth analysis or that kind summary of arguments in favor of advanced movement. And I don’t mean that you need to max out the character limit with arguments, just that people who liked advanced movement would at least make the effort of explaining themselves clearly.

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> in response to the claim that advanced movement breaks the general pacing of the game, and
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> > Moving slower is beneath being able to run. We had one BMS to use as examples in CE, H2, and H3 and it was redundant, slow, and boring. Those games are great because of so many other elements, but one static BMS was not among them.
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> Neither of these go to great depth about your feelings towards these mechanics. They assert things, but don’t try to explain the reasoning behind those assertions, which is the most important part.
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> Explaining things is hard, and I know most people here, including me, would rather just say things without trying to explain why they think so. I could direct the same criticism at many of the posts criticizing advanced movement mechanics, but that’s less of an issue for me personally, because I know all the arguments, and I know how these people think. If you think we haven’t done good job of explaining ourselves, you can raise the same criticism at us and ask for more explanations. However, I’m focusing on you in particular, because when I ask you to elaborate, you dodge my questions. That’s not a way of having a debate. When someone asks you a direct question, you respond to it.
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> Frankly, I have more issues with the pro-advanced movement side than those against it, because I know that even though most people don’t contribute much value to the discussion (and this is true of any online debate), I know that there are at least people willing to go to great depths to explain their views when the need comes. For example, when The Raging Pagan asked for arguments for removal of advanced mobility, we didn’t beat around the bush saying that others have made good arguments, we delivered, twice. I don’t ever really see that kind of in-depth analysis or that kind summary of arguments in favor of advanced movement. And I don’t mean that you need to max out the character limit with arguments, just that people who liked advanced movement would at least make the effort of explaining themselves clearly.

I don’t even want 7500 words. Either just giving 1 mechanical reason why it is better for gameplay or why 1 of my like 20 points made is inferior to sprint would suffice.

I re-read the 12-13 points made and the DM i received and it boils down to “i’m sorry you feel that way” or “use the settings to create a playlist”, despite stating that being shoved in a corner isn’t good enough (by being funny comparing it to Harry Potter living under the stairs).

The other main comment is that it is slow and boring, and returning to a single BMS will be a bad decision (without any evidence) well how is Dota 2, CSGO, LoL, PUBG, Fortnite, Siege, most characters in overwatch and even destiny & battlefront (to an extent), rather slow and the most popular online experiences we’ve had…since coincidentally Halo and CoD started changing in 2010-2013; advanced movement games stopped competing with any of these experiences only months into launching, all slowly dying off.

There is little evidence, but the only evidence that can be extrapolated, points in the opposite direction to what pro-advanced movement argues for.

I don’t ask for much i think, i agree my wall of posts are intimidating…having your favourite game for 11 years then feeling like it doesn’t cater to you for the past 6 years is frustrating, i feel more inclined to discuss on forums and friends than play the game. The population dipped and there wasn’t that many changes made in reach to cause that dip (bloom, low maps, armour abilities).

So all i ask, like the people who staunchly defended infinity settings and the additions of 4, is 1 reason where it mechanically benefits the gameplay, that couldn’t benefit more without it being there.

There has now been 27 pages and no direct answer to that question, aside from defending preference, which we could all do. I’m asking for reasons beyond preference.

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> TheCelticDragon: So all i ask, like the people who staunchly defended infinity settings and the additions of 4, is 1 reason where it mechanically benefits the gameplay, that couldn’t benefit more without it being there.
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> FightingChances: I think the bold part is most likely where we get issues when discussing the topic of sprint. Everyone knows that Spartan Abilities benefits Halo 5’s gameplay, based on what 343 was going for in their interviews and ViDocs.

But that’s it, once a game releases that style of game is what it is, striving for halo 5 gameplay rules out the other possibilities. I gave a short list of some key things that have remained static even in halo 5 across all halo games like general map size, 2 weapon limit, general kill times etc. I’m giving the conclusion that even within the realm of H5 they aren’t good mechanics as it causes the effects listed in the wall of text Tsassi and I posted and arguing why that shouldn’t continue for future games.

> but we also have an intuition that these new abilities would never work in most of the maps in the original games. When two people on differing sides discuss gameplay, they’re coming from completely different angles, because no one ever defined what “gameplay” both parties wanted to talk about.

The anti sprint have. 1 base movement speed, removal of sprint and clamber, less power off spawn and more power on map by removing the other spartan abilities or transforming them into pick-ups or more nuanced low key abilities that don’t majorly impact the game (mainly stabilize and thruster are the more contended abilities among anti-sprint posters).

I defined halo as a more methodical and observational game, with a more dynamic pacing and better flow and less cat and mouse or stop / start gameplay, something sprint nearly single handedly removes or impairs by being a catchall answer to many problems faced in-game. I don’t think you can disagree that Halos barebones spawn and single movespeed contribute to that feel.

> One may assume they are talking about Halo 5’s gameplay, or gameplay in general, while the other is talking about the OG trilogy’s gameplay.

It is either one or the other, the argument of this thread is wondering if we will see a return of the classic mechanics, that isn’t vague, how many people have to suggest 1 BMS and removal of spartan abilities for this to become clear. It’s not like reach and 4 were without argument, the same suggestions were happening then too.

> Anti-sprinters usually always imply that they are speaking about the original trilogy’s gameplay rather than stating that they are talking about the original trilogy’s gameplay. Everyone should probably make that clear in the future. I don’t know if this is the right analysis, though.

I’m also implying that a reach without bloom and armour abilities off-spawn played like halo, so did 4 without all the mess. I’m not talking about a single game or the original trilogy specifically, i’m stating a single movespeed and more barebones spawns will create halo gameplay by default, and that the inclusion of armour abilities or spartan abilities while keeping many elements of the game the same, radically changes how the game is played to the point that to us (people with that mindset) it doesn’t feel like Halo…In the same way the cod community is arguing advanced movement changes the style of the game enough that it feels like a different game, not a game that builds upon the last.

I play Halo because i like what i played, i don’t play 4 or 5 because i don’t, it wouldn’t take much change for me to like it either. If 4 or 5 were massively successful games it would be easy to dismiss this opinion…Halo has not been the figurehead of Xbox or the anchor of sales or the hub for online popularity since the game shifted its fundamentals.

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> > Crouching can and has been used while strafing to make the player a harder target to hit/headshot, is a great utility for ambushing (don’t show up on motion tracker), and can obviously be used to duck under a rocket without having to sprint beforehand.
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> Crouching significantly slows down the gameplay. While it may be good for infiltration, it’s hardly a better substitiute for evasion. I disagree that it makes a player harder to hit or headshot, as you’re moving significantly slower. To which, it also can be used to duck under a rocket, yes, but that does you no good if you’re already sprinting. This is an instance of “why not both?”

If crouch were used as extensively as sprint is, it would significantly slow down the game’s pace. It is not, so it does not.

Have you ever seen/attempted crouch-strafing? Performed correctly, it objectively makes it harder to land shots (as strafing does) but even more so with headshots (as the head is changing position both vertically and horizontally). Link.“Why not both?” Because you haven’t given a utility of Slide that crouching doesn’t already accomplish and including redundant mechanics is shoddy game design.

> > Because artificially elevating ledges to justify a mechanic is pointless?
>
> They’re not articifically elevated. That’s how the map is designed.

Maps are designed to utilize the game mechanics, not the other way around. The ledges are as high as they are so that players will use the clamber mechanic; the clamber mechanic wasn’t added so that players could reach ledges that were designed to be too high for jumping.

So yes, they are artificially elevated beyond jump height to give clamber an artificial role to play in the game.

> > Because clambering requires you to face the ledge and lower your weapon, thus taking the player out of combat just to navigate the map that they’re supposed to fight on?
>
> The time to clamber is literally 34 milliseconds. That’s nothing.

I find the 34 millisecond claim dubious without a source. That aside, it doesn’t account for the amount of time needed to disengage from a firefight, turn to face the ledge, perform the uninterruptible animation, and turn back around before continuing the fight. All those extra steps instead of just jumping (maybe crouch-jumping) and pushing the thumbstick towards the edge… and clambering is considered an “enhanced” movement option?

While you’re trying to downplay the hindrance that is inherent in the clamber mechanic, there’s a medal awarded for killing a clambering player (Cliffhanger).

> > Isn’t the point of Sprint that you can’t fight while using it? Isn’t the point to require slowing down to allow offensive abilities?
>
> No, the point of sprint is temporary elevated mobility. People seem to be expecting to attack while sprinting, to which there is an option.

The function of sprint is increasing movement speed at the expense of weapon/grenade usage. Its point is to move faster while disabling offensive options (not necessarily all of them). I’ve still yet to hear your reasoning for why it’s arguably beneficial to decrease the players’ number of offensive options in order to optimally move around the map.

> > So easier to perform kills is preferrable?
>
> That’s not what I said. 4 hours ago you asked “What options does Ground Pound provide that jumping down for an assassination/beatdown doesn’t?” I answered, and with what you’ve quoted here I stated that it’s certainly easier than jumping down to assassinate. A ground pound is also not a guaranteed kill unless you’re dead-on-center, which against moving targets is challenging.

  • I asked “What options does Ground Pound provide that jumping down for an assassination/beatdown doesn’t?” - You replied “Target reticule, higher damage than standard melee, knockback.” Note that this response doesn’t answer the question; it only lists attributes of the GP mechanic. - I asked for clarification: “So making it easier to perform and more effective?” - You: “Easier to perform and more effective than trying to drop down for an assassination? Yes. Much.” - Me: “So easier to perform kills is preferrable?” - You respond by essentially saying “No, I answered. Yes, it makes it easier but its still challenging.”

> > Benefits of removing Sprint:
> > - No movement interrupts combat readiness.You are able to make every maneuver while engaged in a firefight and without facing the direction you’re moving. - Players can pursue/attack opponents at the same speed as their opponents can flee. With effort, players can retreat effectively without turning away from their opponents. - Maps are designed with more diverse/interesting layouts, rather than pocketed arenas connecting to one another through lanes/corridors.
>
> - As argued, sprinting doesn’t interrupt combat readiness more than any other function or feature. Removing sprint would remove the effect of not being able to fire while sprinting (obviously) but you are still able to maneuver and fire in Halo 5. Sprinting in and of itself does not hinder this, only while sprinting. So this isn’t so much a “benefit” of removing sprint, as it’s not something absent from the game already. Removing sprint would just… remove sprint. So why? - Granted, you can’t attack opponents at the same speed. However this is another example where the “benefits” of removing sprint is… removing sprint. You can already fire at someone using sprint, you can already retreat while firing. How does sprint damage those things? - I already gave you examples from the MC Trilogy that this is not the case. Removing sprint doesn’t affect or allow for this, and maps can be diverse and interesting even with sprint included.

Sprinting does indeed interrupt combat readiness more than many other mechanics. How is this even an argument?

“Removing sprint would remove the effects it has, but with sprint you can still move slower than the maps were designed to be traversed (and must to use your guns/grenades) and shoot/be shot by weapons tuned to be effective against sprint-speed targets. What’s wrong with that?” (paraphrased to make what’s wrong with it evident)

When you concede that sprint removes meaningful options that were possible without it, yet fail to argue any that are only possible with it… I think it’s fair to call that a checkmate.

“Yeah… you can’t do this, but you can still do these other things (that are made less viable by sprint’s inclusion)! So really, what’s the point in removing it?” (paraphrased again)

You cherry-picking a handful of maps from the OT that roughly have the qualities I mentioned (and some of the few that you listed don’t) doesn’t mean that the map selections in those games weren’t more diverse or interesting. Again, “that there are maps in the original trilogy that fit that description doesn’t invalidate what I said. Diversity doesn’t mean that there are no maps like that, but that there are many that aren’t. Meanwhile, about half of the maps in H5 were recycled/tweaked versions of the other half.