The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > > > > > honestly i don’r mind having sprint or slide. but i think that the way halo 5 took mobility was kinda dumb. i don’t think that having a ground-pound, hovering, spartan charge, boost and all that should be in infinite… it may have sprint, but i don’t think that’s bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > How come?
> > > >
> > > > i just dont think that sprint is bad tbh
> > >
> > > Even though it ruins map design and influences the weapon sandbox into more of a laser tag game?
> >
> > What a childish way to conduct a conversation.
>
> It’s only “childish” because you disagree.

No its childish because of the way the question is framed. People with self respect dont conversate like this whether you like it or not

5303

I can’t really go through over a hundred pages reading comments about people camplaining about a super soldier being able to do stuff, totally freaking out and genuinely getting mad at mobility. Now the worst part is that it’s coming from people who (I highly assume) didn’t play Halo from the start but nagging about everything thats going in a forward direction, balancing stuff, adding new stuff but keeping the old spirit. If you don’t like sprint, don’t use it. If you don’t like Spartan Abilities, don’t use. But stop posting on forums nagging about everything, ruining Halo for us who played every game from the beginning, while you only played Halo for 2 hours in total. In the end the developers will only listen to naggers, not the ones who enjoyed the previous title, even with criticism. All I read is: cut out movement, cut out weapons, cut out vehicles like everything that sets Halo apart from other games, instead of: keep everything, include everything and keep adding new stuff, just balance everything. Imo they should’ve kept H5’s mobility, every movement mechanic, just with balancing, like nerfing spartancharge, maybe. The trick is to please everyone right? Best thing would be adding 2 playlists: classic movement and advanced movement, then we’ll see that both will be frequented without anyone being let down.
But anyway could someone explain the hate on everything? Hating sprint, hating clamber, hating groundpund, hating stabilizers, etc…Or is it really just to ruin the fun for others?

5304

> 2535426906008891;5303:
> I can’t really go through over a hundred pages reading comments about people camplaining about a super soldier being able to do stuff, totally freaking out and genuinely getting mad at mobility. Now the worst part is that it’s coming from people who (I highly assume) didn’t play Halo from the start but nagging about everything thats going in a forward direction, balancing stuff, adding new stuff but keeping the old spirit. If you don’t like sprint, don’t use it. If you don’t like Spartan Abilities, don’t use. But stop posting on forums nagging about everything, ruining Halo for us who played every game from the beginning, while you only played Halo for 2 hours in total. In the end the developers will only listen to naggers, not the ones who enjoyed the previous title, even with criticism. All I read is: cut out movement, cut out weapons, cut out vehicles like everything that sets Halo apart from other games, instead of: keep everything, include everything and keep adding new stuff, just balance everything. Imo they should’ve kept H5’s mobility, every movement mechanic, just with balancing, like nerfing spartancharge, maybe. The trick is to please everyone right? Best thing would be adding 2 playlists: classic movement and advanced movement, then we’ll see that both will be frequented without anyone being let down.
> But anyway could someone explain the hate on everything? Hating sprint, hating clamber, hating groundpund, hating stabilizers, etc…Or is it really just to ruin the fun for others?

The point Flying

Your head

All you had to do was read the initial post to this thread and all of your questions would have been answered. Classic Halo has and continues to be more successful than the enhanced mobility/mechanic games, as such it is only logical to prefer what worked and what is proven.

5305

> 2535426906008891;5303:
> I can’t really go through over a hundred pages reading comments about people camplaining about a super soldier being able to do stuff, totally freaking out and genuinely getting mad at mobility. Now the worst part is that it’s coming from people who (I highly assume) didn’t play Halo from the start but nagging about everything thats going in a forward direction, balancing stuff, adding new stuff but keeping the old spirit. If you don’t like sprint, don’t use it. If you don’t like Spartan Abilities, don’t use. But stop posting on forums nagging about everything, ruining Halo for us who played every game from the beginning, while you only played Halo for 2 hours in total. In the end the developers will only listen to naggers, not the ones who enjoyed the previous title, even with criticism. All I read is: cut out movement, cut out weapons, cut out vehicles like everything that sets Halo apart from other games, instead of: keep everything, include everything and keep adding new stuff, just balance everything. Imo they should’ve kept H5’s mobility, every movement mechanic, just with balancing, like nerfing spartancharge, maybe. The trick is to please everyone right? Best thing would be adding 2 playlists: classic movement and advanced movement, then we’ll see that both will be frequented without anyone being let down.
> But anyway could someone explain the hate on everything? Hating sprint, hating clamber, hating groundpund, hating stabilizers, etc…Or is it really just to ruin the fun for others?

For a lot of the points you bring up, it seems pretty clear you didn’t read the pre-existing counter-points listed in my initial post. I recommend you read them first, as they are there mostly so you don’t have to read the hundreds of pages of arguments and mistakenly start another one, or in this case, several, that have already been done to death.

I can’t speak for these naggers you talk about, but I can say I’ve played hundreds of hours in every Halo game, especially Halo 5, and while I admittedly enjoyed several aspects of it, there are some things, like advanced movement, I would rather not have in the next game. I’m not out to get you, nor do I hate all change, I just don’t like where the present games are going movement-wise and wish to share my thoughts on what would make future titles more to my liking. I hope you understand that what you describe as ‘naggers’ don’t represent everyone.

5306

> 2535426906008891;5303:
> I can’t really go through over a hundred pages reading comments about people camplaining about a super soldier being able to do stuff, totally freaking out and genuinely getting mad at mobility. Now the worst part is that it’s coming from people who (I highly assume) didn’t play Halo from the start but nagging about everything thats going in a forward direction, balancing stuff, adding new stuff but keeping the old spirit. If you don’t like sprint, don’t use it. If you don’t like Spartan Abilities, don’t use. But stop posting on forums nagging about everything, ruining Halo for us who played every game from the beginning, while you only played Halo for 2 hours in total. In the end the developers will only listen to naggers, not the ones who enjoyed the previous title, even with criticism. All I read is: cut out movement, cut out weapons, cut out vehicles like everything that sets Halo apart from other games, instead of: keep everything, include everything and keep adding new stuff, just balance everything. Imo they should’ve kept H5’s mobility, every movement mechanic, just with balancing, like nerfing spartancharge, maybe. The trick is to please everyone right? Best thing would be adding 2 playlists: classic movement and advanced movement, then we’ll see that both will be frequented without anyone being let down.
> But anyway could someone explain the hate on everything? Hating sprint, hating clamber, hating groundpund, hating stabilizers, etc…Or is it really just to ruin the fun for others?

If you took the time to read the OP, you would’ve known that the arguments in your post are invalid. There are plenty of people here who have thoroughly analyzed the facts about Sprint as a mechanic, and why it causes certain issues in regards to gameplay. If you don’t want to take the time to understand their point of view, than that’s fine. But don’t complain about this topic then either. This discussion is ultimately about improving Halo as a whole, and not about “hating mobility” like you make it out to be.

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> > I can’t really go through over a hundred pages reading comments about people camplaining about a super soldier being able to do stuff, totally freaking out and genuinely getting mad at mobility. Now the worst part is that it’s coming from people who (I highly assume) didn’t play Halo from the start but nagging about everything thats going in a forward direction, balancing stuff, adding new stuff but keeping the old spirit. If you don’t like sprint, don’t use it. If you don’t like Spartan Abilities, don’t use. But stop posting on forums nagging about everything, ruining Halo for us who played every game from the beginning, while you only played Halo for 2 hours in total. In the end the developers will only listen to naggers, not the ones who enjoyed the previous title, even with criticism. All I read is: cut out movement, cut out weapons, cut out vehicles like everything that sets Halo apart from other games, instead of: keep everything, include everything and keep adding new stuff, just balance everything. Imo they should’ve kept H5’s mobility, every movement mechanic, just with balancing, like nerfing spartancharge, maybe. The trick is to please everyone right? Best thing would be adding 2 playlists: classic movement and advanced movement, then we’ll see that both will be frequented without anyone being let down.
> > But anyway could someone explain the hate on everything? Hating sprint, hating clamber, hating groundpund, hating stabilizers, etc…Or is it really just to ruin the fun for others?

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> > I can’t really go through over a hundred pages reading comments about people camplaining about a super soldier being able to do stuff, totally freaking out and genuinely getting mad at mobility. Now the worst part is that it’s coming from people who (I highly assume) didn’t play Halo from the start but nagging about everything thats going in a forward direction, balancing stuff, adding new stuff but keeping the old spirit. If you don’t like sprint, don’t use it. If you don’t like Spartan Abilities, don’t use. But stop posting on forums nagging about everything, ruining Halo for us who played every game from the beginning, while you only played Halo for 2 hours in total. In the end the developers will only listen to naggers, not the ones who enjoyed the previous title, even with criticism. All I read is: cut out movement, cut out weapons, cut out vehicles like everything that sets Halo apart from other games, instead of: keep everything, include everything and keep adding new stuff, just balance everything. Imo they should’ve kept H5’s mobility, every movement mechanic, just with balancing, like nerfing spartancharge, maybe. The trick is to please everyone right? Best thing would be adding 2 playlists: classic movement and advanced movement, then we’ll see that both will be frequented without anyone being let down.
> > But anyway could someone explain the hate on everything? Hating sprint, hating clamber, hating groundpund, hating stabilizers, etc…Or is it really just to ruin the fun for others?
>
> The point Flying
>
> Your head
>
> All you had to do was read the initial post to this thread and all of your questions would have been answered. Classic Halo has and continues to be more successful than the enhanced mobility/mechanic games, as such it is only logical to prefer what worked and what is proven.

I kinda get it but I still think the: don’t like it don’t use it argument is valid. And the success of classic Halo in terms of what? Sales? Playerbase? Back then it was only more “successful”, because nowadays there is way more competition with free-2-play games (battle royal) going on. 20 or 15 years ago there weren’t that many fps games on consoles. So we’ve had more players then, than now. That hasn’t necessarily to do with movement only. Enhanced mobility is classic movement with additions, but that’s not accepted, ok. We’ll see if Infinite turns out to be more successful because of that. I’m really excited.

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> 2535426906008891;5303:
> I can’t really go through over a hundred pages reading comments about people camplaining about a super soldier being able to do stuff, totally freaking out and genuinely getting mad at mobility. Now the worst part is that it’s coming from people who (I highly assume) didn’t play Halo from the start but nagging about everything thats going in a forward direction, balancing stuff, adding new stuff but keeping the old spirit. If you don’t like sprint, don’t use it. If you don’t like Spartan Abilities, don’t use. But stop posting on forums nagging about everything, ruining Halo for us who played every game from the beginning, while you only played Halo for 2 hours in total. In the end the developers will only listen to naggers, not the ones who enjoyed the previous title, even with criticism. All I read is: cut out movement, cut out weapons, cut out vehicles like everything that sets Halo apart from other games, instead of: keep everything, include everything and keep adding new stuff, just balance everything. Imo they should’ve kept H5’s mobility, every movement mechanic, just with balancing, like nerfing spartancharge, maybe. The trick is to please everyone right? Best thing would be adding 2 playlists: classic movement and advanced movement, then we’ll see that both will be frequented without anyone being let down.
> But anyway could someone explain the hate on everything? Hating sprint, hating clamber, hating groundpund, hating stabilizers, etc…Or is it really just to ruin the fun for others?

Well I’ve been playing Halo since CE, And I wasn’t 5 years old when I was playing it either. I have literally put in hundreds, thousands actually, of hours into every Halo game almost (minus Halo 4) And have literally seen all the ups and downs of every Halo game. I have seen what the communities have liked, disliked, are in different on, are split on, everything. I have also been active in the community since bungie.net days. I have helped foragers test their maps, had many LAN parties at my house over the years (That needs to be a thing again in Halo infinite by the way) and so forth. So you could say I’m kind of a fan.

People have legitimate reasons to not like the Sprint animation or the ADS animation or thrusters or ground pound or whatever. Are there people out there that just don’t like x because they don’t like it? Sure there are, but overall the people that don’t like x or y or z have legitimate and valid reasons as to why. They’re not just hating for the sake of hating and they’re not trying to prevent the Halo series from “evolving” or anything like this.

Like others have said, if you literally just read the OP’s opening statement and maybe even a few other posts you would understand this. Overall, Most people that want X gone or changed have legitimate reasons as to why.

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> But anyway could someone explain the hate on everything? Hating sprint, hating clamber, hating groundpund, hating stabilizers, etc…Or is it really just to ruin the fun for others?

It’s a two way street you know.
I don’t necessarily find your preferences fun, and as such, what you want in Halo, would be to ruin my fun.

I’m actually going to be somewhat generous here, and offer a small explanation, despite your large simply ironic post full of massive assumptions and accusations.

New mechanics alter and change the gameplay in specific ways, and directions.
Sprint change the game in one way, clamber in another, spartan charge impact the gameplay in a specific manner. Quite a few players see these changes as something less desirable for the game. The escapability and separation of combat and movement with sprint, the trivialification of jumping with clamber, knee jerk aspect of spartan charge.
Dual wielding was for instance most likely not cut because people were complaining about it, but that Bungie couldn’t find a meaningful way of implementing it without oversaturating the sandbox with on their own useless one handed weapons.

If you want to actually understand more, then you should’ve made a less condecending start of a post.
At this point, in my opinion, you go look for the answers you seek. Do the reading, do the thinking, put yourself in someone else’s position, with an open mind.

5311

I really enjoyed the movement on Halo 3 the most. It felt like an ever evolving chess game during the match. You could always feel that amazing push-pull when you and your teammates were engaged with another very strategic enemy team. It really felt most balanced with everyone having the same speed and having to be a few more steps ahead and I think that’s what I disliked about newer titles with the feeling like it was trying to be too twitch like BF or COD. Halo 2 was amazing due to its level design and I felt like they continued that with 3. Halo doesn’t disappoint with that at all no matter which one in the series.

Assassinations animations in Reach were super cool though and I felt that was welcomed. Halo 4 was where I was kinda feeling like the movements were the reason why I kinda fell off from the franchise based on my preferences. I’m back though to give Halo a chance and I really need to finish 5 and Halo Wars 2 to catch up on lore. Hoping to stay put this time with Infinite.

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> > But anyway could someone explain the hate on everything? Hating sprint, hating clamber, hating groundpund, hating stabilizers, etc…Or is it really just to ruin the fun for others?
>
> If you want to actually understand more, then you should’ve made a less condecending start of a post.

My opinion wasn’t meant to sound rude, that’s why I asked. I’m grateful for every answer. The nagging part is meant for the naggers, not for OP.

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> I really enjoyed the movement on Halo 3 the most

You might have liked Halo Online too, since it was a modded version of Halo 3 with sprint and assassinations. It felt really great and smooth.

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> 2535426906008891;5303:
> All I read is: cut out movement, cut out weapons, cut out vehicles like everything that sets Halo apart from other games, instead of: keep everything, include everything and keep adding new stuff, just balance everything. Imo they should’ve kept H5’s mobility, every movement mechanic, just with balancing, like nerfing spartancharge, maybe.

Because the idea of “we should keep everything!” only really applies to the things that person likes.

Dual Wielding was given two chances before being removed outright, Loadouts were given two chances before being mostly removed, Ordnance was given one chance. Here we are with something like sprint which is on chance #4 and going strong because it’s given a sort of special treatment.

Yes, “surprisingly” people would rather remove things they don’t like because its in the way of the things they do like. The really easy example: your wish to nerf spartan charge. Some people would see that as you ruining the game for them, because they really liked it, and at least one person believed [it deserved a buff.

](https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/why-isn-t-spartan-charge-more-disorienting/e8909b7b-f5a3-4371-93c3-b21fd7819d6b/posts?page=1#post2)I really don’t know what you expected coming into a thread, choosing not to read any of it, then talking down to them based on an assumption you made up. Why would they put your feelings under any consideration if you’re just going to call them “naggers” from the very beginning?

5314

I think the fact that after 11 years the community is still split on spint speaks a lot about the impact it has on Halo. For me, a perfect blend would be sprint in story and traditional running and gunning in multiplayer, both social and ranked.

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> > I really enjoyed the movement on Halo 3 the most
>
> You might have liked Halo Online too, since it was a modded version of Halo 3 with sprint and assassinations. It felt really great and smooth.

Then by definition it wasn’t the movement of Halo 3.

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> I still think the: don’t like it don’t use it argument is valid.

To give you an analogy more related to something you yourself said:
Don’t like spartan charge? Don’t use it.
Still doesn’t stop other players using it against you, tho…

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> Back then it was only more “successful”, because nowadays there is way more competition with free-2-play games (battle royal) going on. 20 or 15 years ago there weren’t that many fps games on consoles.

In terms of H5G’s competitors, that is blatantly false. 90% of the popular franchises at that time did already exist during Halo 3’s lifetime and already had a huge market share (Battlefield, Battlefront, Rainbow Six, Gears, GTA, etc.) And for basically every new title that has appeared (Overwatch, PUBG, etc.) we have an equivalent one that disappeared (Unreal Tournament, Left 4 Dead, etc.).

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> I kinda get it but I still think the: don’t like it don’t use it argument is valid.

It’s really not. I mean, to begin with, it’s not even an argument. It’s a dismissive pretend solution that lets you feel good about yourself without expending any brain power on thinking about the actual issue. It’s like telling a clinically depressed person to just “cheer up”. It’s not just unhelpful. It’s actively demeaning because it implies the belief that the other person hasn’t considered something blatantly obvious, basically, that they’re stupid.

There is nothing valid about being dismissive and demeaning. If you actually want to be helpful, the right place to start would be to not assume that you know better than the other person. I.e., by asking (genuine, non-condescending) questions, listening, and trying to understand where they are coming from.

5317

Halo 3’s movement, with a small bms and acceleration increase, would realy work well.
the wish for sprint mainly comes from an emotional side, and slightly from a map traversal side. this could be solved by increasing the max forward movement speed while not shooting by 2%-5% (enough for an acceleration feeling, but not enough for a detremental effect) and giving it a slight weapons movement animation (play the first few frames of a weapon loweing animation forward and backward). landing a crouch jump while not shooting should create the same short animation. firing is always possible.
this is classic gameplay (forward moevement in halo 3 is already faster than other directions), but with modern visual cues for the feeling of speed.
to feel it: open a halo three custom game, set movement speed to 110% and swap weapons back and forth while moving. it basicly looks like sprinting.

a toned down thruster pack should stay in infinite.

5318

Since we know sprint is going to be in the game, I’m more interested in peoples thoughts on how the multiplayer will likely turn out based on what we know. I’m particularly interested in the opinion of those who, like me, wanted a return to classic gameplay.

From what we’ve seen, the relative speed of sprint to normal speed appears to be heavily reduced, with other mobility options seeming to exist in the form of equipment (map pick-ups). Realistically, this is probably the best we could’ve hoped for from 343. This means that through the map design process, two very similar speeds need to be accounted for. This is the closest to one speed (aka the trilogy) that we’ve seen from 343. Add to this the return to the original art style and I believe that the maps we will get in H:I will be the closest we have seen to those in classic Halo games from any title by 343.

But as we know, the effects of sprint extend beyond just making maps bigger. An inability to run and shoot at max speed promotes cat and mouse/scramble gameplay, which (contrary to popular belief) slows gameplay down. Unfortunately, I believe these effects are extremely difficult to mitigate through map design alone. It also affects weapon balance, by increasing hit boxes, aoe damage radii, etc.

tl;dr, I’m hopeful that map design will be as minimally impacted as we could’ve hoped, with the nerf to sprint and keeping of other mobility options as map pick-ups. On the other hand, sprint still creates significant challenges in map design and weapon balancing, and frankly, 343 has given me no reason to have faith in them until now.

5319

I feel you…
Im also hoping infinite will be a step back to more classic Halo.
If its going the H5 route, im passing.

My biggest fear is, that they chase to please casuals.
More speed, more gimmicks, more actions. But all to the costs of less Halos core.
And when the casuals left after a few month to play the next CoD, we have the next dead multiplayer, which doesnt fit the ones playing it.

I mean everybody can play what they want, but imo if you choose to play Halo you should expect Halo.
And Halo (until H5) was never fast paced.
I always loved, that you have tim in combat to switch weapons, throw a nade, take cover, strafe and maybe get away.
There is so much more room for skill in this fights than in “brrrrrr. Dead.” CoD.
Same goes for map design. While i liked most BtB Maps in H4, the majority of smaller maps were all ruined for me.
No comparison to the classic maps from H2/H3. They all had great angles, places to hold, open space.
H4/H5 small maps mostly had tubes. Barely a chance to flank, team shooting and taking cover.
It felt a bit like Cod. You run, someone runs into you, and you had a 2 second shootout. Thats it.
Sprint made it worse.
And im really concerned about the grapple hook+Boltshot or alike.

But i want to be optimistic because i love Halo.
“Wasted” happily 10 Years of my life playing it every evening, trading online friends for real life ones.
I just hope it becomes a real Halo and not a casual trap franchise.

5320

> 2535444514063000;5318:
> Since we know sprint is going to be in the game, I’m more interested in peoples thoughts on how the multiplayer will likely turn out based on what we know. I’m particularly interested in the opinion of those who, like me, wanted a return to classic gameplay.
> From what we’ve seen, the relative speed of sprint to normal speed appears to be heavily reduced, with other mobility options seeming to exist in the form of equipment (map pick-ups). Realistically, this is probably the best we could’ve hoped for from 343. This means that through the map design process, two very similar**speeds need to be accounted for. This is the closest to one speed (aka the trilogy) that we’ve seen from 343. Add to this the return to the original art style and I believe that the maps we will get in H:I will be the closest we have seen to those in classic Halo games from any title by 343.
> But as we know, the effects of sprint extend beyond just making maps bigger. An inability to run and shoot at max speed promotes cat and mouse/scramble gameplay, which (contrary to popular belief) slows gameplay down. Unfortunately, I believe these effects are extremely difficult to mitigate through map design alone. It also affects weapon balance, by increasing hit boxes, aoe damage radii, etc.
> tl;dr, I’m hopeful that map design will be as minimally impacted as we could’ve hoped, with the nerf to sprint and keeping of other mobility options as map pick-ups. On the other hand, sprint still creates significant challenges in map design and weapon balancing, and frankly, 343 has given me no reason to have faith in them until now.

if the speed increase of sprint is less than 5% and no other penalities apply, it could easily be made an autosprint function. if sideways and backwards movement has a heightened top speed to (+2%) sprint or no sprint does no longer matter. it would just be halo 3, but at 105% speed when not firing. This should not be enough for get out of jail free, but enough for the feeling of sprinting.
this would also free up a button, which is necessary if thrusters and equipement are present (unless sprint replaces forward thrust on the gamepad)

5321

I don’t like how 343 didn’t address Sprint in their whole “Combat Doctrine” speech. Sure, they talk up a storm about “rhythm of engagement”, but they avoided talking about Sprint and how it directly interferes with what makes Halo, Halo. The whole update doesn’t make me feel any better about Infinite. In fact, it leaves me more frustrated.