> 2533274866906624;5100:
> > 2533274827506033;5095:
> > Having played Halo since Day One, and recently getting back due to Covid influencing the work place, I hope 343 keep the Halo 5 type of play.
> >
> > Going back to “classic” would mean the game will slow doen, and games have evolved from the Halo3 era. Just look at Starcraft/Fortnite and Call Of Duty.
> >
> > I hope the following mechanics are available:
> > 1.Slide
> > 2.Spring jumping, and making it easier to hit, ie. the necessary time between the crouch and jump should be increases to make it more consistent. Now the fest is not a Skill, but a super duper sweaty glotch only 1/10 of Åros mange to hit. Making it unbalanced
> > 3.Sprint (already confirmed)
> > 4.Stabilize: this makes pre-aiming harder and makes games have more variety in respect to wheree the opponents hitboxes habits are placed around a map. Also makes players have another thought process and increases the decision making process.
> >
> > Conclusion:
> > I think going back in time on the mechanics will make it a dull game that players will replace, or switch. Already pros have switchef to Call of Duty(Shottzy) , Fortnite (ninja) etc. If more follow the spark of Infinite will be squashed instantly.
>
> I understand where you are coming from, however Halo has lost a major piece of it’s unique gameplay style that made it so popular. This has been an extremely divisive topic since it’s inception in Halo: Reach. Sprint alters gameplay in many game-changing and important ways.
I agree, making it more like other games imply removes what makes halo, halo. If I want a game like those other games, id play those other games. Halo Infinite’s gameplay trailer seemed to have a decent balance between both speed and methodical movement. A fine balance to walk as most games are sweatfests with people sprinting, dashing, and flying off walls. And while such things work in a game like titanfall, where its entire gameplay system from the ground up was built for it. Halo wasnt, it was never meant to be like titanfall, or call of duty, or fortnite. Halo is meant to hold its own place, with its own take on gunfights and movement systems. To change what makes Halo, Halo, simply to “keep up with the times”, is a horrible tragedy of a thought process. While yes the game can be sped up, it can be done in different ways than having all the wacky movement systems of other games. I wonder what halo infinite’s multiplayer will feel like, and I cant want to get my hands on it to try it out for myself.
> 2535407316957013;5102:
> > 2533274866906624;5100:
> > > 2533274827506033;5095:
> > > Having played Halo since Day One, and recently getting back due to Covid influencing the work place, I hope 343 keep the Halo 5 type of play.
> > >
> > > Going back to “classic” would mean the game will slow doen, and games have evolved from the Halo3 era. Just look at Starcraft/Fortnite and Call Of Duty.
> > >
> > > I hope the following mechanics are available:
> > > 1.Slide
> > > 2.Spring jumping, and making it easier to hit, ie. the necessary time between the crouch and jump should be increases to make it more consistent. Now the fest is not a Skill, but a super duper sweaty glotch only 1/10 of Åros mange to hit. Making it unbalanced
> > > 3.Sprint (already confirmed)
> > > 4.Stabilize: this makes pre-aiming harder and makes games have more variety in respect to wheree the opponents hitboxes habits are placed around a map. Also makes players have another thought process and increases the decision making process.
> > >
> > > Conclusion:
> > > I think going back in time on the mechanics will make it a dull game that players will replace, or switch. Already pros have switchef to Call of Duty(Shottzy) , Fortnite (ninja) etc. If more follow the spark of Infinite will be squashed instantly.
> >
> > I understand where you are coming from, however Halo has lost a major piece of it’s unique gameplay style that made it so popular. This has been an extremely divisive topic since it’s inception in Halo: Reach. Sprint alters gameplay in many game-changing and important ways.
>
> I agree, making it more like other games imply removes what makes halo, halo. If I want a game like those other games, id play those other games. Halo Infinite’s gameplay trailer seemed to have a decent balance between both speed and methodical movement. A fine balance to walk as most games are sweatfests with people sprinting, dashing, and flying off walls. And while such things work in a game like titanfall, where its entire gameplay system from the ground up was built for it. Halo wasnt, it was never meant to be like titanfall, or call of duty, or fortnite. Halo is meant to hold its own place, with its own take on gunfights and movement systems. To change what makes Halo, Halo, simply to “keep up with the times”, is a horrible tragedy of a thought process. While yes the game can be sped up, it can be done in different ways than having all the wacky movement systems of other games. I wonder what halo infinite’s multiplayer will feel like, and I cant want to get my hands on it to try it out for myself.
Thanks, I think we’re all looking forward to trying Halo: Infinite’s multiplayer, and even the multiplayer reveal. I hope that sprint will not happen in the multiplayer, though only time will tell. 343 said that they want a return to the original Halo experience, but it won’t be that as long as sprint is in the game.
> 2535449076192416;1:
> 3. Sprint isn’t required to make an FPS in this day and age successful. Common examples of popular games without sprint include DOOM, Counterstrike, and Overwatch.
> However, providing a list of modern games without sprint should not be necessary, because Halo shouldn’t be trying to copy everyone else to begin with. There is clearly a lack of innovation in the game industry when a developer can only implement a unique mechanic if enough other games in the market have already attempted it and succeeded. That is commonly called ‘chasing trends’, which we should be mostly avoiding.
It’s funny. A lot of people keep saying, “Sprint is fine now, though. It looks barely faster than base movement.”
If that’s the case… why even have sprint?! Just up the base movement speed. That’s it. Doom did it, and no-one complained about not being able to sprint in the 2016 nor Eternal.
> 2533274819984192;5105:
> It’s funny. A lot of people keep saying, “Sprint is fine now, though. It looks barely faster than base movement.”
>
> If that’s the case… why even have sprint?! Just up the base movement speed. That’s it. Doom did it, and no-one complained about not being able to sprint in the 2016 nor Eternal.
The Human brain is such a funny thing. Most enjoy sprint because it lets them move faster even for a short period of time. I myself in video games even with fast movement find myself mashing the button to move faster even if no such option exists simply cause my brain goes “You are getting where you need to go faster”. Even in games like halo 3 where i prefer the more strategic positioning methods for survival due to almost nonexistent movement systems. When traversing extremely long lengths of ground, the ability to move faster than how you would be fighting is usually preferred, as that’s just how our brain’s seem to work. That is why I think even a minimal sprint is nice
> 2535425610002022;5104:
> > 2535449076192416;1:
> > 3. Sprint isn’t required to make an FPS in this day and age successful. Common examples of popular games without sprint include DOOM, Counterstrike, and Overwatch.
> > However, providing a list of modern games without sprint should not be necessary, because Halo shouldn’t be trying to copy everyone else to begin with. There is clearly a lack of innovation in the game industry when a developer can only implement a unique mechanic if enough other games in the market have already attempted it and succeeded. That is commonly called ‘chasing trends’, which we should be mostly avoiding.
>
> …Have you seen how fast Doomguy moves?
Yes, but that does not mean every game should have players run at DOOM speeds to work without sprint. I’m just using DOOM, as well as the other two examples, as evidence against the common argument that “Sprint is necessary in every modern shooter”. These games are quite popular while generally lacking sprint in one or more aspects, so, hypothetically, Halo should be allowed to do the same and still be accepted by modern audiences.
If your issue is the extent DOOM takes to make you feel fast without sprint, take a look at my first point for other suggestions.
Over the past few days I’ve been taking precision measurements of map perimeters in Halo 3 and 5 in order to compute the areas of the maps. I now have the results, which I’ve summarized in this map size graphic.
The bottom line is that no matter which way you cut it, the median area of non-BTB Halo 5 maps is about 30% larger than that of the corresponding Halo 3 maps. However, if one looks further into how the map sizes actually distribute, there are a number of things one can notice:
Whereas Halo 5 maps are very much bunched around the median size, Halo 3 maps are much more evenly spread in size. - Consequently, there are six maps in Halo 3 (Blackout, Cold Storage, Construct, Epitaph, Guardian, Heretic) that are smaller than the smallest map in Halo 5 (Molten). - The tail end of the Halo 3 map distribution is dominated by four maps that in their default configuration contain a Ghost as a vehicle, and are designed with that in mind (High Ground, Isolation, Longshore, Snowbound). Halo 5 with its strict arena mindset has no corresponding maps. - If we only consider strictly pure arena maps (not forged) in both games (maps optimized for infantry play with no consideration for vehicles; Breakout maps in Halo 5 excluded), the median area of Halo 5 arena maps is about 80% larger than the median area of Halo 3 arena maps. (If we include forged maps, the discrepancy becomes larger.)With these statistics, we can’t conclusively say that movement mechanics are the culprit, but this is very consistent with the principle that map size is mostly influenced by the fastest transit method available on the map, i.e., pure infantry map sizes are primarily guided by maximum movement speed, while sizes of maps containing vehicles are primarily driven by decisions revolving around vehicular play.
> 2533274825830455;5108:
> Over the past few days I’ve been taking precision measurements of map perimeters in Halo 3 and 5 in order to compute the areas of the maps. I now have the results, which I’ve summarized in this map size graphic.
>
> The bottom line is that no matter which way you cut it, the median area of non-BTB Halo 5 maps is about 30% larger than that of the corresponding Halo 3 maps. However, if one looks further into how the map sizes actually distribute, there are a number of things one can notice:
> - Whereas Halo 5 maps are very much bunched around the median size, Halo 3 maps are much more evenly spread in size. - Consequently, there are six maps in Halo 3 (Blackout, Cold Storage, Construct, Epitaph, Guardian, Heretic) that are smaller than the smallest map in Halo 5 (Molten). - The tail end of the Halo 3 map distribution is dominated by four maps that in their default configuration contain a Ghost as a vehicle, and are designed with that in mind (High Ground, Isolation, Longshore, Snowbound). Halo 5 with its strict arena mindset has no corresponding maps. - If we only consider strictly pure arena maps (not forged) in both games (maps optimized for infantry play with no consideration for vehicles; Breakout maps in Halo 5 excluded), the median area of Halo 5 arena maps is about 80% larger than the median area of Halo 3 arena maps. (If we include forged maps, the discrepancy becomes larger.)With these statistics, we can’t conclusively say that movement mechanics are the culprit, but this is very consistent with the principle that map size is mostly influenced by the fastest transit method available on the map, i.e., pure infantry map sizes are primarily guided by maximum movement speed, while sizes of maps containing vehicles are primarily driven by decisions revolving around vehicular play.
Welp, going to have to press the save button on this.
Mind explaining how you came to these measurements, more specifically the measurements of each “side” of the map?
(I know what’s left of my memory of basic map told me you just added up every side to come to the perimeter)
> 2533274833081329;5109:
> Mind explaining how you came to these measurements, more specifically the measurements of each “side” of the map?
>
> (I know what’s left of my memory of basic map told me you just added up every side to come to the perimeter)
The short answer is that I just made my way along the perimeter of each map, and stopped whenever necessary to record the coordinates I’m standing on, making sure I’m as far to the edge of the map as the boundaries allow. So, take any of those maps (with one exception), any place where you can stand indefinitely is inside one of the polygons I have drawn. The one exception to this is Snowbound, where there is a region outside the turrets where you can stand without them shooting at you. I couldn’t be bothered going through the tedium of finding where that invisible line goes, so on the open side of the map I just jumped along the turrets.
These are top down views, so for maps with multiple floors, the point I was trying to find could be in any floor. On Construct, for example, the positions I recorded abruptly jump between the top and bottom floor. The point is that no playable part of the map is outside this perimeter if you project the whole map to the horizontal plane.
> 2533274825830455;5098:
> I really have no idea what’s causing the discrepancy. There isn’t a setting for it that I know of. But I assume we’re all using the default settings the game throws at us anyway.
Well, I changed my controller mapping to have sprint on (X) instead of (LS). Although that should actually make the measurement more stable, in that I’m not in danger of accidentally disabling sprint by inadvertently clicking the stick.
At this point the only explanation that I can think of to possibly reconcile both observations is that my controller were broken… but I couldn’t really imagine how. Either the stick interferes with the X-button somehow - which would also cause sprint to randomly activate during BMS, something I don’t observe - or I’d have slight controller drift that results in angles above the sprint threshold to be input, not long enough to actually change the movement direction but long enough for the game to drop out of sprint. Even so, it’s strange that it would always happen around the same angle, shouldn’t it be more random?
Unfortunately I cannot test this hypothesis atm, as I don’t have a second XBone controller available. I have plenty of 360 controllers, and a few years ago I could have used them in combination with the XBone by streaming the game to Win10, but ever since Microsoft switched from the general “Xbox” app to the “Xbox Console Companion” the 360 (wireless) controllers are no longer supported.
> 2533274821339472;5099:
> he doesnt understand that “it takes practice to hit max angle and just because you fail, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.” he had no reason to dismiss my video, that i’m aware of.
Tsassi has established himself as an unbiased source of information over the last six years I’ve known him. When he provides data that contradicts my own, that gives me reason enough to look into it once more.
On the other hand, over the past few weeks that I’ve read your posts, you have repeatedly made statements without proof, spread misinformation, changed data to suit your own agenda and just in general have presented yourself as highly untrustworthy. I’m sorry to say, but based on past experiences, whenever you make a statement, that alone makes me suspect the opposite is true.
> 2533274795123910;5112:
> Perhaps it’d be possible to forge a map with a floor on which different angles are presented that you sprint along?
Does the game kick you out of sprint when an obstacle deflects your direction? I.e., could you make a, say, 85°-angled wall, sprint straight at it and as soon as you touch it, what would happen? Would the game drop you to BMS or keep you in sprint?
> 2533274801176260;5113:
> > 2533274795123910;5112:
> > Perhaps it’d be possible to forge a map with a floor on which different angles are presented that you sprint along?
>
> Does the game kick you out of sprint when an obstacle deflects your direction? I.e., could you make a, say, 85°-angled wall, sprint straight at it and as soon as you touch it, what would happen? Would the game drop you to BMS or keep you in sprint?
Probably.
But I was thinking a tiled floor where the angles are in the pattern
> 2533274801176260;5111:
> Well, I changed my controller mapping to have sprint on (X) instead of (LS). Although that should actually make the measurement more stable, in that I’m not in danger of accidentally disabling sprint by inadvertently clicking the stick.
> At this point the only explanation that I can think of to possibly reconcile both observations is that my controller were broken… but I couldn’t really imagine how. Either the stick interferes with the X-button somehow - which would also cause sprint to randomly activate during BMS, something I don’t observe - or I’d have slight controller drift that results in angles above the sprint threshold to be input, not long enough to actually change the movement direction but long enough for the game to drop out of sprint. Even so, it’s strange that it would always happen around the same angle, shouldn’t it be more random?
> Unfortunately I cannot test this hypothesis atm, as I don’t have a second XBone controller available. I have plenty of 360 controllers, and a few years ago I could have used them in combination with the XBone by streaming the game to Win10, but ever since Microsoft switched from the general “Xbox” app to the “Xbox Console Companion” the 360 (wireless) controllers are no longer supported.
I guess it could be some brand of calibration issue. My working theory is that the sprint threshold is based solely on the y-value of the analog stick input, so if the x-values are smaller than expected, the maximum sprint angle is smaller than it should be. About 84% of the desired value seems to do the trick. This would have the side effect of giving you slower strafe speed (than intended) in normal gameplay.
> 2533274801176260;5113:
> > 2533274795123910;5112:
> > Perhaps it’d be possible to forge a map with a floor on which different angles are presented that you sprint along?
>
> Does the game kick you out of sprint when an obstacle deflects your direction? I.e., could you make a, say, 85°-angled wall, sprint straight at it and as soon as you touch it, what would happen? Would the game drop you to BMS or keep you in sprint?
No, the game lets you sprint against walls at some really steep angles (basically 90 degrees). It just (I assume) takes away the component of your speed normal to the wall.
Really though, why do we need all these gimmick mechanics?
Every other game on the market has slide, sprint and clamber so Halo should just fall in line? at least H5 had thrust and stabilize to set itself slightly apart.
Halo was perfectly fine before sprint so what’s wrong with going back? “outdated” isn’t valid since Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal clearly show otherwise along with the revival of MCC and the failure of H4 and H5 to maintain a stable happy playerbase.
I’m sick of Halo being just like every other game, going back on MCC to CE team double really shocks me with just how good it is compared to anything 343 has put out and how different it is compared to anything of it’s time and anything today.
Halo CE has sprint, it is just a very basic version of the concept.
If you hold the left stick straight up to move only directly forward (with no strafe at all) , you get a speed increase of ~10%.
Go test it out for yourself. You can “feel” it once you know it’s there. It’s really easy to test if you have two controllers too. Make it so you have one go straight forward, and the other move diagonally (but line it up so they’re going in the same direction). The presence of sprint is indisputable when you test it this way.
> 2614366390849210;5117:
> Fun fact for the day!
>
> Halo CE has sprint, it is just a very basic version of the concept.
>
> If you hold the left stick straight up to move only directly forward (with no strafe at all) , you get a speed increase of ~10%.
>
> Go test it out for yourself. You can “feel” it once you know it’s there. It’s really easy to test if you have two controllers too. Make it so you have one go straight forward, and the other move diagonally (but line it up so they’re going in the same direction). The presence of sprint is indisputable when you test it this way.
>
> If you don’t know, now you know
Different strafe and forward speeds is not sprint, though. It’s just that: different strafe and forward speeds. Every Halo game has the two speeds different. You can go to Halo 5 and observe the same effect. But it’s not sprint.
“Sprint” is a mechanic that involves two distinct movement states, a deliberate activation, some clear trade off in the maximum speed state, and generally an animation. Classic Doom’s “run” button that you can just toggle and have it act as your normal movement speed is not “sprint” because there is no disadvantage to running at maximum speed. The first game to have implemented an actual sprint mechanic that I know of is GTA III.
> 2533274825830455;5118:
> > 2614366390849210;5117:
> > Fun fact for the day!
> >
> > Halo CE has sprint, it is just a very basic version of the concept.
> >
> > If you hold the left stick straight up to move only directly forward (with no strafe at all) , you get a speed increase of ~10%.
> >
> > Go test it out for yourself. You can “feel” it once you know it’s there. It’s really easy to test if you have two controllers too. Make it so you have one go straight forward, and the other move diagonally (but line it up so they’re going in the same direction). The presence of sprint is indisputable when you test it this way.
> >
> > If you don’t know, now you know
>
> Different strafe and forward speeds is not sprint, though. It’s just that: different strafe and forward speeds. Every Halo game has the two speeds different. You can go to Halo 5 and observe the same effect. But it’s not sprint.
>
> “Sprint” is a mechanic that involves two distinct movement states, a deliberate activation, some clear trade off in the maximum speed state, and generally an animation. Classic Doom’s “run” button that you can just toggle and have it act as your normal movement speed is not “sprint” because there is no disadvantage to running at maximum speed. The first game to have implemented an actual sprint mechanic that I know of is GTA III.
“It’s just a very basic version of the concept”.
Rationalize your opposition to it however you want. You can’t aim in different directions besides forwards while you do it, and you move faster than someone who isn’t activating the movement feature.
> 2614366390849210;5117:
> Fun fact for the day!
>
> Halo CE has sprint, it is just a very basic version of the concept.
>
> If you hold the left stick straight up to move only directly forward (with no strafe at all) , you get a speed increase of ~10%.
>
> Go test it out for yourself. You can “feel” it once you know it’s there. It’s really easy to test if you have two controllers too. Make it so you have one go straight forward, and the other move diagonally (but line it up so they’re going in the same direction). The presence of sprint is indisputable when you test it this way.
>
> If you don’t know, now you know
I would be fine with the Combat Evolved version here. Gives us a speed increase when walking forward, as opposed to the same tired sprint mechanics we have had with Reach, H4, and H5. I’ll try anything at this point!
> 2535407316957013;5106:
> > 2533274819984192;5105:
> > It’s funny. A lot of people keep saying, “Sprint is fine now, though. It looks barely faster than base movement.”
> >
> > If that’s the case… why even have sprint?! Just up the base movement speed. That’s it. Doom did it, and no-one complained about not being able to sprint in the 2016 nor Eternal.
>
> The Human brain is such a funny thing. Most enjoy sprint because it lets them move faster even for a short period of time. I myself in video games even with fast movement find myself mashing the button to move faster even if no such option exists simply cause my brain goes “You are getting where you need to go faster”. Even in games like halo 3 where i prefer the more strategic positioning methods for survival due to almost nonexistent movement systems. When traversing extremely long lengths of ground, the ability to move faster than how you would be fighting is usually preferred, as that’s just how our brain’s seem to work. That is why I think even a minimal sprint is nice
This whole discussion is pretty much about Sprint not actually making you faster, but rather it being an illusion of going faster. What you’re describing is a sort of dopamine effect of your brain craving a speed impulse. Most people, especially nowadays, are susceptible to these kind of fast-paced impulses. Sprint gives you a feeling of ‘‘engagement’’, that you’re ‘‘actively’’ moving around instead of ‘‘walking’’. I think this is one of the reasons why the Sprint mechanic is so prevalent in modern games. There’s more button pressing, and thus more sensory stimuli.
