The return of classic movement mechanics?

Halo 5 is that weird beast that is too mechanical for new players / kids / bad players invest time into as the game is more difficult to play decently, yet despite listening to the pro scene ignore the most basic requests regarding movement and not give something we want. By all means many pros do enjoy 5, though there’s a reason we held tournaments on older games after the H5 scene fell apart.

I won’t get into semantic arguments as I don’t care for them, the map size discussion is a dead end as even with data it would require a formula to define effective size with relation to how movement affects space. It seems rather sus that someone who would trash both 4 and 5 would die on a hill defending sprint however. I’ll re-iterate it but what game has sprint that isn’t near instant kill times, obscenely large maps or 1 life only modes. Sprint can work on all 3 of these as the instant kill makes it dangerous to use, the large maps necessitate its use, 1 life only makes it risky to overuse it. Halo implemented it then has spent a decade trying to nerf it to fit a square peg into a round hole.

The idea that sprint is the ‘new’ evolution shooters have to make to be relevant is stupidity. The granddaddy of shooters that ushered in its popularity, Doom, had a run key. Since you could shoot during run, not running was pointless so an option was added to autorun. Sprint only works as a mechanic if you can’t shoot while sprinting, which in turn creates the schism we have seen since Reach. Those who want uniform move speed vs those who want 2 modes of speed. Wanting uniform movespeed does not mean it needs to be sluggish like H3 or have to become quake-like to speed it up, we can add movement options, they just aren’t a spawn trait.

The competitive scene already solved this and was 343s first action with the series. We played competitively with sprint in Reach, the maps were quite small all things considered, but the game was spent 50% locked into an animation, and was very cat and mouse, the game also had bloom. People died on that hill too, making all the arguments on Bnet that “this is the way the game was intended, it will play worse”, “classic Halo formula is outdated”, “Halo needs to be modern” the same song and dance. Once no bloom no sprint NBNS was introduced there was a huge resurgence of competitive players in Reach, the game felt so much better, and with jetpack and evade pickups it felt very rewarding. There was no dead time without sprint, there was real calculated risk, outplays as sprint wasn’t a fallback option, more co-ordination, more aggression and punishment. Unfortunately the main tournament organiser MLG pulled Halo from its circuit after the first tournament despite record numbers and a resurgence in popularity, mostly to make way for the rise in MOBAs. Halo then had to suffer under the frauds of AGL.

Then we got H4 with infinity settings, then we got H5 with titanfall-esque chain movement. Some could say that my input is only relevant with respect to the 1% who play competitive, however I would retort that Halo had its rise in popularity because it was a very simple, fluid and intuitive game, an arena-esque sandbox game. The push for sprint or sprint combos has just added jank and complications to the game. Halo being more simple and intuitive but having a high skill ceiling is what induced so many players into getting into competitive gaming, not comp players trying to force their vision on Halo, but to keep the element that made it so enthralling to begin with.

> 2535407109813100;5061:
> > 2535461097114890;5060:
> > > 2533274803493024;5:
> > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > There is absolutely no way this game won’t have the classic gameplay
> > >
> > > That’s purely speculation. Making assumptions like this is goofy at best.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > the oldest of Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> > >
> > > I think the first part of this statement is biased based on the second part. There are plenty of older Halo fans that like the new mechanics.
> >
> > Man this aged like milk.
>
> How’d you manage to reach Champion in Doubles? I can’t go plus. I know If I grind out 4v4 matches I know I’ll eventually get it. But I assume you’re all playing with teams in Doubles.

I played with a teammate most of my doubles games but I solo queued a few times as well. The playlist is sweaty, I don’t really have any advice other than work with your teammates and teamshot as much as possible.

> 2535461097114890;5063:
> > 2535407109813100;5061:
> > > 2535461097114890;5060:
> > > > 2533274803493024;5:
> > > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > > There is absolutely no way this game won’t have the classic gameplay
> > > >
> > > > That’s purely speculation. Making assumptions like this is goofy at best.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > > the oldest of Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> > > >
> > > > I think the first part of this statement is biased based on the second part. There are plenty of older Halo fans that like the new mechanics.
> > >
> > > Man this aged like milk.
> >
> > How’d you manage to reach Champion in Doubles? I can’t go plus. I know If I grind out 4v4 matches I know I’ll eventually get it. But I assume you’re all playing with teams in Doubles.
>
> I played with a teammate most of my doubles games but I solo queued a few times as well. The playlist is sweaty, I don’t really have any advice other than work with your teammates and teamshot as much as possible.

Ugh, ok. I’ll have to find a teammate then. Or just stop playing the gamemode entirely because it’s extremely annoying, at least until I’m better.

Ive recently been going back and playing every single halo game, from combat evolved all the way to halo 5, and I must say this. Ive noticed during my time playing, that the game is often more fun when its slower and a little more methodical, but is also fun in those short moments of high movement and quick reactions. I feel that removing sprint entirely is a bad move, as getting from point A to point B is significantly more time consuming and just isn’t all that fun to do. Specially since nothing is worse than traversing a long map unable to find anyone to fight, only to get insta-killed by either a power weapon or vehicle, and have to repeat the entire walk all over again. Id say sprint needs to be a little more limited in its use. Making it a way to get to fights a little faster, but not necessarily move faster in said fights. Halo 5 in unfun to me due to all of the strange dashing and sprinting, making landing shots consistently difficult, and fights either getting drawn out way too long, or cut off way too short. While playing a game like Halo 3 would be fun, we can all agree that if they make the game just like it, that we’ll all get quickly bored. Cause its a game we’ve experienced already for over a decade. Id like some version of sprint and such to stay, but id definitely prefer to never again see the movement systems of the likes of Halo 5

> 2533274821339472;5043:
> nope. he gave me a quote about halo 4.

Correct, as you never specifically asked for H5G:

> 2533274821339472;5010:
> can 343 back that up? otherwise thats just your “opinion”.

That was an arbitrary stipulation you added after the fact to dismiss inconvenient proof.

> 2533274821339472;5043:
> i dismissed it because h5 has changed and it wasnt relevant anymore. h5 dev maps are much smaller than h4 original dev maps. fact. h5 map size are now similar to h3 medium maps size. h3 medium map sizes are not dictated by sprint. I want proof about halo 5’s changed philosophy whether it STILL dictated map size because of sprint. why did h5 clearly scrap h4’s philosophy where “everyone’s at it, and the maps have grown to compensate (sprint)”?

It didn’t. Maps were enlarged.

While researching the topic, I came across this reddit post here.
OP measured several maps with three metrics: Diameter, Circumference, longest Line of Sight.
On average, using BMS, it takes 22.83 seconds to cross a map in Halo 3 compared to 23.33 seconds in H5G. Similarly, it takes 48 seconds to run around the perimeter in Halo 3 versus 45 seconds in H5G.
“But wait…” you say “… doesn’t this prove that the maps weren’t enlarged?”
Yes, it would… if the BMS hadn’t been increased after backlash during the beta. The movement speed that the maps were designed for was lower, meaning it would have taken more time to move around on them than in Halo 3.
By comparing both games’ BMS, we can calculate that H5G maps are 20% larger than Halo 3 maps in terms of distances. And only after criticism, has 343 adjusted the BMS to a level where map traversal would take the same amount of time as before. During its development, H5G’s maps still had the same design philosophy. Which isn’t surprising, as Kevin Franklin was lead multiplayer designer for Halo 4 and then Design Director for H5G.
The downside to this adjustment is that it caused reduced sightlines, from 16 seconds (Halo 3) to 12.83 seconds (H5G) as the maps themselves weren’t actually changed after the Beta.

> 2533274801176260;5066:
> > 2533274821339472;5043:
> > nope. he gave me a quote about halo 4.
>
> Correct, as you never specifically asked for H5G:
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;5010:
> > can 343 back that up? otherwise thats just your “opinion”.
>
> That was an arbitrary stipulation you added after the fact to dismiss inconvenient proof.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;5043:
> > i dismissed it because h5 has changed and it wasnt relevant anymore. h5 dev maps are much smaller than h4 original dev maps. fact. h5 map size are now similar to h3 medium maps size. h3 medium map sizes are not dictated by sprint. I want proof about halo 5’s changed philosophy whether it STILL dictated map size because of sprint. why did h5 clearly scrap h4’s philosophy where “everyone’s at it, and the maps have grown to compensate (sprint)”?
>
> It didn’t. Maps were enlarged.
>
> While researching the topic, I came across this reddit post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/hsppio/does_sprint_make_maps_bigger_definitively_answered/
> OP measured several maps with three metrics: Diameter, Circumference, Line of Sight.
> On average, using BMS, it takes 22.83 seconds to cross a map in Halo 3 compared to 23.33 seconds in H5G. Similarly, it takes 48 seconds to run around the perimeter in Halo 3 versus 45 seconds in H5G.
> “But wait…” you say “… doesn’t this prove that the maps weren’t enlarged?”
> Yes, it would… if the BMS hadn’t been increased significantly after backlash during the beta. The movement speed that the maps were designed for was lower, meaning it would have taken more time to move around on them than in Halo 3.
> By comparing both games’ BMS, we can calculate that H5G maps are 20% larger than Halo 3 maps in terms of distances. And only after criticism, has 343 adjusted the BMS to a level where map traversal would take the same amount of time as before. During its development, H5G’s maps still had the same design philosophy. Which isn’t surprising, as Kevin Franklin was lead multiplayer designer for Halo 4 and then Design Director for H5G.
> The downside is that this caused reduced sightlines, from 16 seconds (Halo 3) to 12.83 seconds (H5G) as the maps weren’t actually changed after the Beta.

weve argued before, you like to twist a lot of nonsense.

Anyway, i specifically said medium sized halo 3 maps because halo 3 ranges a lot.

that reddit post includes some of the smallest halo 3 maps.

Fail, better luck next time.

> 2533274821339472;5067:
> > 2533274801176260;5066:
> > > 2533274821339472;5043:
> > > nope. he gave me a quote about halo 4.
> >
> > Correct, as you never specifically asked for H5G:
> >
> >
> > > 2533274821339472;5010:
> > > can 343 back that up? otherwise thats just your “opinion”.
> >
> > That was an arbitrary stipulation you added after the fact to dismiss inconvenient proof.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274821339472;5043:
> > > i dismissed it because h5 has changed and it wasnt relevant anymore. h5 dev maps are much smaller than h4 original dev maps. fact. h5 map size are now similar to h3 medium maps size. h3 medium map sizes are not dictated by sprint. I want proof about halo 5’s changed philosophy whether it STILL dictated map size because of sprint. why did h5 clearly scrap h4’s philosophy where “everyone’s at it, and the maps have grown to compensate (sprint)”?
> >
> > It didn’t. Maps were enlarged.
> >
> > While researching the topic, I came across this reddit post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/hsppio/does_sprint_make_maps_bigger_definitively_answered/
> > OP measured several maps with three metrics: Diameter, Circumference, Line of Sight.
> > On average, using BMS, it takes 22.83 seconds to cross a map in Halo 3 compared to 23.33 seconds in H5G. Similarly, it takes 48 seconds to run around the perimeter in Halo 3 versus 45 seconds in H5G.
> > “But wait…” you say “… doesn’t this prove that the maps weren’t enlarged?”
> > Yes, it would… if the BMS hadn’t been increased significantly after backlash during the beta. The movement speed that the maps were designed for was lower, meaning it would have taken more time to move around on them than in Halo 3.
> > By comparing both games’ BMS, we can calculate that H5G maps are 20% larger than Halo 3 maps in terms of distances. And only after criticism, has 343 adjusted the BMS to a level where map traversal would take the same amount of time as before. During its development, H5G’s maps still had the same design philosophy. Which isn’t surprising, as Kevin Franklin was lead multiplayer designer for Halo 4 and then Design Director for H5G.
> > The downside is that this caused reduced sightlines, from 16 seconds (Halo 3) to 12.83 seconds (H5G) as the maps weren’t actually changed after the Beta.
>
> weve argued before, you like to twist a lot of nonsense.
>
> Anyway, i specifically said medium sized halo 3 maps because halo 3 ranges a lot.
>
> that reddit post includes some of the smallest halo 3 maps.
>
> Fail, better luck next time.

It’s comparing the same map from two similar games, about as close to apples and apples as you can get

> 2535458188883243;5068:
> > 2533274821339472;5067:
> > > 2533274801176260;5066:
> > > > 2533274821339472;5043:
> > > > nope. he gave me a quote about halo 4.
> > >
> > > Correct, as you never specifically asked for H5G:
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274821339472;5010:
> > > > can 343 back that up? otherwise thats just your “opinion”.
> > >
> > > That was an arbitrary stipulation you added after the fact to dismiss inconvenient proof.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274821339472;5043:
> > > > i dismissed it because h5 has changed and it wasnt relevant anymore. h5 dev maps are much smaller than h4 original dev maps. fact. h5 map size are now similar to h3 medium maps size. h3 medium map sizes are not dictated by sprint. I want proof about halo 5’s changed philosophy whether it STILL dictated map size because of sprint. why did h5 clearly scrap h4’s philosophy where “everyone’s at it, and the maps have grown to compensate (sprint)”?
> > >
> > > It didn’t. Maps were enlarged.
> > >
> > > While researching the topic, I came across this reddit post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/hsppio/does_sprint_make_maps_bigger_definitively_answered/
> > > OP measured several maps with three metrics: Diameter, Circumference, Line of Sight.
> > > On average, using BMS, it takes 22.83 seconds to cross a map in Halo 3 compared to 23.33 seconds in H5G. Similarly, it takes 48 seconds to run around the perimeter in Halo 3 versus 45 seconds in H5G.
> > > “But wait…” you say “… doesn’t this prove that the maps weren’t enlarged?”
> > > Yes, it would… if the BMS hadn’t been increased significantly after backlash during the beta. The movement speed that the maps were designed for was lower, meaning it would have taken more time to move around on them than in Halo 3.
> > > By comparing both games’ BMS, we can calculate that H5G maps are 20% larger than Halo 3 maps in terms of distances. And only after criticism, has 343 adjusted the BMS to a level where map traversal would take the same amount of time as before. During its development, H5G’s maps still had the same design philosophy. Which isn’t surprising, as Kevin Franklin was lead multiplayer designer for Halo 4 and then Design Director for H5G.
> > > The downside is that this caused reduced sightlines, from 16 seconds (Halo 3) to 12.83 seconds (H5G) as the maps weren’t actually changed after the Beta.
> >
> > weve argued before, you like to twist a lot of nonsense.
> >
> > Anyway, i specifically said medium sized halo 3 maps because halo 3 ranges a lot.
> >
> > that reddit post includes some of the smallest halo 3 maps.
> >
> > Fail, better luck next time.
>
> It’s comparing the same map from two similar games, about as close to apples and apples as you can get

well, that was not my arguement.

> 2533274801176260;5066:
> While researching the topic, I came across this reddit post here.
> OP measured several maps with three metrics: Diameter, Circumference, longest Line of Sight.
> On average, using BMS, it takes 22.83 seconds to cross a map in Halo 3 compared to 23.33 seconds in H5G. Similarly, it takes 48 seconds to run around the perimeter in Halo 3 versus 45 seconds in H5G.
> “But wait…” you say “… doesn’t this prove that the maps weren’t enlarged?”
> Yes, it would… if the BMS hadn’t been increased after backlash during the beta. The movement speed that the maps were designed for was lower, meaning it would have taken more time to move around on them than in Halo 3.
> By comparing both games’ BMS, we can calculate that H5G maps are 20% larger than Halo 3 maps in terms of distances. And only after criticism, has 343 adjusted the BMS to a level where map traversal would take the same amount of time as before. During its development, H5G’s maps still had the same design philosophy. Which isn’t surprising, as Kevin Franklin was lead multiplayer designer for Halo 4 and then Design Director for H5G.
> The downside to this adjustment is that it caused reduced sightlines, from 16 seconds (Halo 3) to 12.83 seconds (H5G) as the maps themselves weren’t actually changed after the Beta.

Looks like people have tried all kinds of approaches to measure map sizes. The issue with these diameter/circumfrence/LoS measurements I realized back in the day is that they only make sense on some maps. The longest straight line you can run on Heretic clearly in some way describes the map’s size, but on a map like High Ground or Eden that don’t have a straight line through the whole map it doesn’t really tell you about the map, and generally underestimates the size.

Circumfrence is kind of more general, but given that you can in principle have an arbitrarily long circumfrence bound the same area if you have a winding enough perimeter, I suspect it’s not “stable” enough as a metric. Like some maps in Halo games are basically just rectangular boxes, whereas others are more windy.

Given that this guy took six maps from each game, my mind immediately jumps to sampling bias. Snowbound and Isolation are relatively huge maps in the category of non-BTB Halo 3 maps, whereas smaller maps like Citadel, Cold Storage, and The Pit are left out. The selection for Halo 5 seems generally more balanced, but it does leave out both smaller maps like Overgrowth, and bigger maps like Torque, which could take the average either way. (On a side note, i think median would be the more appropriate average here.)

But speaking of bad ways to measure map sizes, about a year ago I went and measured the sizes of the horizontal xy-bounding (or is it xz in game developer world) boxes of the playable area on all Halo 3, 4, and 5 maps. I assume I would’ve posted the data here, but here it is anyway https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xWpekId_iiUPAlZ8lXGu_2zMz0QplLXv/view. I don’t bring it up much because it turns out most Halo maps are not axis-aligned rectangles, and it’s anyway kind of inconclusive. But the reason I bring it up here is that if it convinced me about anything, it’s that there is no universe where the non-BTB maps in Halo 3 are larger on average than the Halo 5 non-BTB maps. I did find that the median long axis of the bounding box in Halo 5 is about 7% larger than in Halo 3, and the short axis is about 24% larger, but that comes with the above caveat.

In general, I think it’s just good to have more data, as long as it uses some unambiguous metric to measure the size. On that node, yesterday I actually started on a project I’ve been putting off for a long time, which is to measure a tight bounding polygon (i.e., an approximation of the perimeter) for each Halo 3 and 5 map. That’ll let me calculate the actual areas of the playable spaces, more or less. I’ll probably post more about it here once I’m done with it.

> 2533274821339472;5067:
> weve argued before, you like to twist a lot of nonsense.

No, I don’t. I’m just not inclined to letting people get away with moving the goalpost and pulling arguments out of their -Yoinks!-. That includes you.

> 2533274821339472;5067:
> Anyway, i specifically said medium sized halo 3 maps because halo 3 ranges a lot.
>
> that reddit post includes some of the smallest halo 3 maps.

It includes Snowbound and Isolation, which are some of the largest 4v4 maps in Halo 3 to the point that they are literally recommended for 5v5. WTF are you talking about?

> 2533274821339472;5067:
> Fail, better luck next time.

You’re welcome to present your own analysis. Which you have so far failed to do…

> 2533274801176260;5071:
> > 2533274821339472;5067:
> > weve argued before, you like to twist a lot of nonsense.
>
> No, I don’t. I’m just not inclined to letting people get away with moving the goalpost and pulling arguments out of their -Yoinks!-. That includes you.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;5067:
> > Anyway, i specifically said medium sized halo 3 maps because halo 3 ranges a lot.
> >
> > that reddit post includes some of the smallest halo 3 maps.
>
> It includes Snowbound and Isolation, which are some of the largest 4v4 maps in Halo 3 to the point that they are literally recommended for 5v5. WTF are you talking about?
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;5067:
> > Fail, better luck next time.
>
> You’re welcome to do your own analysis. Which you have so far failed to do…

do you not understand maths? he is taking the mean number from all those maps. please tell me you know what a mean number is

standoff and valhalla are the biggest 4v4 maps. the pit is a medium map.

it is you who is moving the the goalposts, now calm down.

> 2533274821339472;5072:
> do you not understand maths? he is taking the mean number from all those maps. please tell me you know what a mean number is

Since I have a PhD in astroparticle physics, I understand math very well. The same cannot be said about you, Mister “40°=45°=60°=90°”.

> 2533274821339472;5072:
> standoff and valhalla are the biggest 4v4 maps. the pit is a medium map.

Standoff and Valhalla are not 4v4 maps, they are 8v8 maps.

> 2533274821339472;5072:
> it is you who is moving the the goalposts, now calm down.

“Prove to me that 343 enlargers maps because of sprint”.
Gets quote by 343 industries.
“No, no, prove to me that they enlarge maps in Halo 5
Gets measurements of the maps.
“No, no, prove to me that they enlarge by measuring which maps I tell you to measure”.

Again, so far you have been proven wrong serveral times with quotes and evidence. None of which you were able to provide yourself to back up your claims, btw.

> 2533274801176260;5073:
> > 2533274821339472;5072:
> > do you not understand maths? he is taking the mean number from all those maps. please tell me you know what a mean number is
>
> Since I have a PhD in astroparticle physics, I understand math very well. The same cannot be said about you, Mister “40°=45°=60°=90°”.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;5072:
> > standoff and valhalla are the biggest 4v4 maps. the pit is a medium map.
>
> Standoff and Valhalla are not 4v4 maps, they are 8v8 maps.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;5072:
> > it is you who is moving the the goalposts, now calm down.
>
> “Prove to me that 343 enlargers maps because of sprint”.
> Gets quote by 343 industries.
> “No, no, prove to me that they enlarge maps in Halo 5
> Gets measurements of the maps.
> “No, no, prove to me that they enlarge by measuring which maps I tell you to measure”.
>
> Again, so far you have been proven wrong serveral times with quotes and evidence. None of which you were able to provide yourself to back up your claims, btw.

youve lost the plot mate. did you not see that video that proved it went past 45 degrees when you said it was impossible?

I must have imagined playing 4v4 standoff on halo 3 the other day, not

“Again, so far you have been proven wrong serveral times with quotes and evidence. None of which you were able to provide yourself to back up your claims, btw”

all your qoutes and evidence help my case, not yours. thanks for doing the work for me.

> 2533274821339472;5074:
> youve lost the plot mate. did you not see that video that proved it went past 45 degrees when you said it was impossible?

I have seen you post a video running beside a beam you were claiming to be at 45°. Beside you sucking at math, given your previous affinity towards false statements and flat-out lies, I have no reason to believe that’s true. Especially since I measured the angle myself multiple times and consistently get 40°.
EDIT: Besides, even if it were 45 or even 60 degrees (which it isn’t) that doesn’t change the fact that it still isn’t 90° as seen in Infinite, Mister “do you not understand maths”.

> 2533274821339472;5074:
> I must have imagined playing 4v4 standoff on halo 3 the other day.

I played 1v1 on Blood Gulch once. Guess that makes it a 1v1 map, then?

> 2533274821339472;5074:
> all your qoutes and evidence help my case, not yours. thanks for doing the work for me.

So, Quotes by 343 that they are enlarging maps because of sprint and measurements that show how H5G maps are 20% larger than Halo 3 maps actually prove your point?
Pray tell, how? I’m always in the mood for a good laugh.

> 2533274801176260;5075:
> > 2533274821339472;5074:
> > youve lost the plot mate. did you not see that video that proved it went past 45 degrees when you said it was impossible?
>
> I have seen you post a video running beside a beam you were claiming to be at 45°. Beside you sucking at math, given your previous affinity towards false statements and flat-out lies, I have no reason to believe that’s true. Especially since I measured the angle myself multiple times and consistently get 40°.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;5074:
> > I must have imagined playing 4v4 standoff on halo 3 the other day.
>
> I played 1v1 on Blood Gulch once. Guess that makes it a 1v1 map, then?
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;5074:
> > all your qoutes and evidence help my case, not yours. thanks for doing the work for me.
>
> So, Quotes by 343 that they are enlarging maps because of sprint and measurements that show how H5G maps are 20% larger than Halo 3 maps actually prove your point?
> Pray tell, how? I’m always in the mood for a good laugh.

“I have seen you post a video running beside a beam you were claiming to be at 45°. Beside you sucking at math, given your previous affinity towards false statements and flat-out lies, I have no reason to believe that’s true. Especially since I measured the angle myself multiple times and consistently get 40°.”

i think anyone who watches this will see how “reliable” you are in your “measurements”. Ryan lfc 92's Xbox Halo 5: Guardians clip 118176103. Find your Xbox clips on GamerDVR.com

“I played 1v1 on Blood Gulch once. Guess that makes it a 1v1 map, then?”

are people playing 1v1 blood gulch in matchmaking right now? because they are with 4v4 standoff.

“sprint and measurements that show how H5G maps are 20% larger than Halo 3 maps actually prove your point?”

compared to halo 3 small maps you are correct. however if we factor in map sizes like the pit instead which was always my argument, you will find that halo 3 the pit is on par with halo 5 maps.

“So, Quotes by 343 that they are enlarging maps because of sprint”

already explained. 343 had some twisted idea in halo 4 that maps have to be humongous. They probably seen bad feedback because they released smaller maps in halo 4 dlc’s. In halo 5, the humongous maps are completely gone. its almost like 343’s design philosophy changed or something which makes the halo 4 quote no longer reliable and not valid as proof when tsassi’s statement is about halo 5.

The distinction in Halo between “small”, “medium”, and “large” sized maps has always been very hazy. The discussion leads nowhere unless both parties can first agree on a set of maps that should be taken into account when considering the question of sprint and map size. The only sensible way to come to agreement is to decide upon a simple criterion that boils down to a simple yes/no question. One criterion I can think of is the following

  • Does the map contain a vehicle other than a Mongoose (or a Ghost)? (Bungie had this weird habit of putting Mongooses and Ghosts on maps that most people would reasonably consider small.)Another candidate criterion is based on playlist appearance:

  • Did the map appear in a BTB playlist?4v4 is not a good criterion, because I think every map in Halo 3 at some point appeared in some 4v4 playlist. Since nobody is arguing that sprint has had any effect on sizing of large vehicle-based maps, there is no case where maps like Valhalla or Sandtrap should be included in the consideration.

> 2533274825830455;5077:
> The distinction in Halo between “small”, “medium”, and “large” sized maps has always been very hazy. The discussion leads nowhere unless both parties can first agree on a set of maps that should be taken into account when considering the question of sprint and map size. The only sensible way to come to agreement is to decide upon a simple criterion that boils down to a simple yes/no question. One criterion I can think of is the following
> - Does the map contain a vehicle other than a Mongoose (or a Ghost)? (Bungie had this weird habit of putting Mongooses and Ghosts on maps that most people would reasonably consider small.)Another candidate criterion is based on playlist appearance:
> - Did the map appear in a BTB playlist?4v4 is not a good criterion, because I think every map in Halo 3 at some point appeared in some 4v4 playlist. Since nobody is arguing that sprint has had any effect on sizing of large vehicle-based maps, there is no case where maps like Valhalla or Sandtrap should be included in the consideration.

just take the pit as your baseline. this is not about you trying to remove 4v4 btb maps just so you can get the median of your desired size to compare to halo 5. this argument is about what i considered medium. it was never about if halo took all the btb maps that are also 4v4 and then found the median of the rest. i have always considered the pit tthe perfect sized medium map(most popular halo 3 map) that coincides with halo 5 map size. ive never measured them but they look on par.

> 2533274821339472;5076:
> are people playing 1v1 blood gulch in matchmaking right now? because they are with 4v4 standoff.

They are also playing 8v8 BTB on Standoff right now, making it an 8v8 map.

> 2533274821339472;5076:
> compared to halo 3 small maps you are correct. however if we factor in map sizes like the pit instead which was always my argument, you will find that halo 3 the pit is on par with halo 5 maps.

Actually, compared to the average of Halo 3 4v4 maps, regardless of size. Please tell me you know what an average is.

> 2533274821339472;5076:
> already explained. 343 had some twisted idea in halo 4 that maps have to be humongous. They probably seen bad feedback because they released smaller maps in halo 4 dlc’s. In halo 5, the humongous maps are completely gone. its almost like 343’s design philosophy changed or something which makes the halo 4 quote no longer reliable and not valid as proof when tsassi’s statement is about halo 5.

Claim without proof. You have not provided any evidence whatsoever to map sizes in H5G or Halo 4 nor to 343’s design philosophy. Fact is, H5G’s maps are larger than Halo 3’s. If you want to discuss map sizes of H5G compared to Halo 4, it’s your turn to provide the data. I’m not going to do your homework, neither is anybody else.

EDIT: So, you still haven’t shown how the quote and data support your argument. All you tried to do is invent a story (and failed) about how they don’t disprove your argument, which is not the same thing.

> 2533274801176260;5079:
> > 2533274821339472;5076:
> > are people playing 1v1 blood gulch in matchmaking right now? because they are with 4v4 standoff.
>
> They are also playing 8v8 BTB on Standoff right now, making it an 8v8 map.
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;5076:
> > compared to halo 3 small maps you are correct. however if we factor in map sizes like the pit instead which was always my argument, you will find that halo 3 the pit is on par with halo 5 maps.
>
> Actually, compared to the average of Halo 3 4v4 maps, regardless of size. Please tell me you know what an average is.
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;5076:
> > already explained. 343 had some twisted idea in halo 4 that maps have to be humongous. They probably seen bad feedback because they released smaller maps in halo 4 dlc’s. In halo 5, the humongous maps are completely gone. its almost like 343’s design philosophy changed or something which makes the halo 4 quote no longer reliable and not valid as proof when tsassi’s statement is about halo 5.
>
> Claim without proof. You have not provided any evidence whatsoever to map sizes in H5G or Halo 4 nor to 343’s design philosophy. Fact is, H5G’s maps are larger than Halo 3’s. If you want to discuss map sizes of H5G compared to Halo 4, it’s your turn to provide the data. I’m not going to do your homework, neither is anybody else.

stop trying to force your unreliable data like it has merit. funny how you skipped over the video. no comment? youve been proven unreliable. i’m going to call you Mr Unreliable from now on.

> 2533274821339472;5080:
> stop trying to force your unreliable data like it has merit. funny how you skipped over the video. no comment? youve been proven unreliable. i’m going to call you Mr Unreliable from now on.

  1. It’s not “my” data. I literally took it from somebody who wanted to prove that sprint doesn’t inflate the maps and it showed the exact opposite. (The OP on Reddit either wasn’t aware or forgot that BMS was changed after these maps were created.)
  2. If you have better data, by all means: Show it!
  3. I skipped on the video because I’m currently preparing another video of my own. Postponed isn’t canceled.
  4. You can call me whatever you want to make you feel better, but that doesn’t change the fact that your statements so far were false and you have zero proof for them.