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> > > > > > > > > > please no heretic vs truth comparisons
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> > > > > > > > > Why not? Both seem pretty standard sized for their respective games. Both are different executions of the same map concept, so a sensible comparison can actually be made. You’re basically rejecting the most apples-to-apples comparison because it doesn’t fit your agenda.
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> > > > > > > > > Look, the notion that maps in a game with sprint are designed with the expectation that players are going to sprint is not “a point people have conjured up in their mind”. It’s just a basic principle of level design that levels should be designed with the movement abilities of the players in mind. Pick your battles. Don’t try to deny basic truths.
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> > > > > > > > h5 dev maps all have a standard map size. h3 maps vary and heretic is a really small map that requires lots of cover. it is far from a apples to apples comparison. a much fairer approach is to take 2 similar sized maps from each game and compare how they use cover.
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> > > > > > > > show me where maps have been adjusted for sprint besides sprint jumps. I dont see it.
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> > > > > > > At this point you are gonna refuse to see any reason to defy your cognitive dissonance I think. But sure, lets take similar sized maps from each game even though in reality when accounting for the change in movement speed Truth and Midship are comparable. Lets take something like Standoff from H3 and Truth from H5. I would say if you ignore sprint those maps are pretty similar in size. Now lets try and play H5 Truth without sprint on. It would be horrendous. Not just because of hitscan weapons, but because there is almost no cover in between carbine tower, red base, blue base, mid, and pink tower. There are open expanses. I suppose you have bubble but that again is a very wide stretch of cover. Now compare that to standoff in H3 (which is literally a BTB map). It had to be balanced for vehicles so yes there are sections on the far left and right of the map that are more open, however, from any position on the map one can easily get to cover through the very dense midsection of the map which has plenty of rocks, boulders, etc. The red and blue base also have very tight CQC combat that you could never see in H5. There is a lot of room for out-maneuvering enemies on that map. You have very little room for that in Truth on H5, and that isnt even taking into account vehicle routes.
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> > > > > > truth was designed to be no mans land in the middle. sandtrap was designed to push players to go to the center. sandtrap has no mans lands on the sides while truth is designed to be played on the sides. youre confusing different styles of maps. what you should compare is how each map uses close quarters combat and long range combat. compare the close quarter designs to close quarter designs and the long range designs to long range designs.
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> > i dont like any halo game with sprint but sprint isnt the main reason why. reach ruined how shields work and people spawned with armor lock. 4 had instant respawns and loadouts. 5 has a horrid aiming system, lazar weapons and thruster.
> >
> > halo 4 remakes are not stretched but both remakes and original maps are equally meh because of everything else in the core gameplay.
> >
> > heres an interesting quote from a h5 forger:
> >
> > “Thanks to forge, I have played plenty of small maps with sprint. They work just fine. Actually, they play better than large maps do with sprint in many cases, because the smaller the map is and the shorter the space between cover, the less people actually use sprint. Playing on those smaller maps, if you abuse the sprint button you’re just going to die repeatedly because you’re constantly caught with your gun down.
> > This is the same argument I’ve seen regarding the effectiveness of the DMR at long distances. It was frequently argued that maps had to be made larger to combat this. The opposite is true. The best way to reduce the effectiveness of a long range weapon is to reduce the number of long range battles. The best way to do that is to make shorter lines of sight, not longer ones. The best way to reduce the negative impacts of sprint on maps is to reduce the amount of dead space.”
> >
> > sprint+jump+thrust is much worse than reaches, 4’s sprint+jump.
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> Never mentioned any skill gap. I meant movement speed gap. Anytime you have a large gap in two modes of movement the maps will have to be designed for two modes of play, resulting in less focused maps and worse map design in general. The forge quote is an interesting one. If that is the case then that’s a solution. Problem is, 343 isn’t making small classic sized maps, mainly because they want players to actually be able to use the movement mechanics they have implemented.
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> When I say you are oversimplifying I mean that you claim that spring + jump + thruster is worse than sprint + jump, which obviously it is, but you ignore the impact of sprint + jump. ANYTIME you add the ability for an extended jump distance no matter how large you are going to cause map inflation. You just seem to willfully ignore it. I am not saying thruster did not make this worse. It certainly did. However, H5 would still have the same map issues w/ out thruster because of the large difference in sprinting movement speed and walking speed. While it would be interesting to see projectiles in H5, I am confident that even without thruster the game would be hell. The maps in halo 5 are way too large and the sprint speed is so fast.
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> So, you desperately want a Halo game with sprint, slide, clamber, yet you dislike every Halo game that has sprint. You say that you dislike them for reasons other than sprint and your solution to the terrible maps is to implement maps that make sprint useless and encourage classic gameplay. Very hot take man. I have great news for you. You are a classic Halo fan! You want Halo 3 with a useless sprint/slide mechanic. It seems you just enjoy being the contrarian here. We are not even really in disagreement here. I want a closer to base movement speed sprint in Infinite to offer the ability to slide while preventing map inflation. Slide offers a unique ability to perform risky pushes that adds to the skill gap, however you don’t get a get out of jail free thrust like in H5.
“I want a closer to base movement speed sprint in Infinite to offer the ability to slide while preventing map inflation. Slide offers a unique ability to perform risky pushes that adds to the skill gap, however you don’t get a get out of jail free thrust like in H5.”
youre suddenly speaking my language but even with halo 5 sprint it wouldnt be a drastically different game. map design would not need to be inflated. Smartly placed walls would suffice to stop jumping to unintentional parts of the map. infinites sprint is only a little slower than 5. thruster is the real problem in h5’s movement.
what you just described is why i think it will finally be better than classic movement. halo 3 is my favourite. I just see the potential to improve it.
that forger quote was before h5 and was most likely comparing the large halo 4 maps to the classic medium maps like the pit which was considered small in h4. the infinite sprint slide with no thruster will work well enough with classic medium maps which are actually similar size to h5 maps
, oh yes let’s take a forum and bicker like entitled children.