The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > its possible to add sprint onto standard bms and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like infinites slide.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > its possible to add sprint onto standard bms and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like infinites slide.It really depends on how you look a a game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > To me, the concept of a combat speed and a traversal speed donnot fit the expectations I have for a Halo game. IMO the biggest problem this debate has is people of both sides trying to prove that sprint is either objectively good/Ok or objectively bad but it’s not that easy…you can list objective observations like “many popular shooter have a sprint mechanig thus adding it to Halo is necessary” or “Having sprint in the game forces the devs to change how maps are designed/how weapons are balanced” but what makes this issue so frustrating is te subjective part. Do you like how 343 has changed the gameplay? Yes, or no? And many people do not like how 343 has changed the gameplay, no matter how well thought out the change might sound to the other side.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Would you like to have a cover mechanic in Halo? I wouldn’t but in the end, “its possible to add [a cover mechanic] onto standard [movement] and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like [wall bounces].” thing is, it might not fit your definition of Halo…
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I fully believe sprint and slide can compliment halo 3’s gameplay. sprint and slide merges its self with combat speed because you can shoot while sliding.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > but you can’t shoot while sprinting
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > why should you have to?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Because that’s the whole point of Halo and arena shooters, to shoot while moving instead of being forced to enter a different movement speed
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > why is that the whole point? explain why entering faster movement while not shooting is detrimental to halo. please dont give me the lazer weapon excuse.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because that’s not Halo that’s not an arena shooter like quake and doom, you might as well say you’d prefer Halo to be like Titanfall and COD since you clearly don’t know what Halo is supposed to be
> > > > >
> > > > > lol, you cant answer the question. your brain just went no comprende.
> > > > >
> > > > > i hate cod and titanfall yet i still think sprint is good. hmm…
> > > > >
> > > > > didnt i once tell you, halo multiplayer was actually inspired by counter strike, not an arena shooter?
> > > >
> > > > Counter Strike is still closer to an arena shooter than COD or Titanfall, you don’t understand how games work or what makes games like Halo work
> > >
> > > hmm really? its neither. countersrike is a tactical shooter.
> > >
> > > you have no points and now youre just telling me im wrong with no substance.
> >
> > That’s why I said “closer”
>
> it could be argued both ways but really it is neither

how is it both ways, it has no sprint
it only has 1 combat speed in which maps are designed around

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > its possible to add sprint onto standard bms and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like infinites slide.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > its possible to add sprint onto standard bms and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like infinites slide.It really depends on how you look a a game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, the concept of a combat speed and a traversal speed donnot fit the expectations I have for a Halo game. IMO the biggest problem this debate has is people of both sides trying to prove that sprint is either objectively good/Ok or objectively bad but it’s not that easy…you can list objective observations like “many popular shooter have a sprint mechanig thus adding it to Halo is necessary” or “Having sprint in the game forces the devs to change how maps are designed/how weapons are balanced” but what makes this issue so frustrating is te subjective part. Do you like how 343 has changed the gameplay? Yes, or no? And many people do not like how 343 has changed the gameplay, no matter how well thought out the change might sound to the other side.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Would you like to have a cover mechanic in Halo? I wouldn’t but in the end, “its possible to add [a cover mechanic] onto standard [movement] and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like [wall bounces].” thing is, it might not fit your definition of Halo…
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I fully believe sprint and slide can compliment halo 3’s gameplay. sprint and slide merges its self with combat speed because you can shoot while sliding.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > but you can’t shoot while sprinting
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > why should you have to?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Because that’s the whole point of Halo and arena shooters, to shoot while moving instead of being forced to enter a different movement speed
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > why is that the whole point? explain why entering faster movement while not shooting is detrimental to halo. please dont give me the lazer weapon excuse.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Because that’s not Halo that’s not an arena shooter like quake and doom, you might as well say you’d prefer Halo to be like Titanfall and COD since you clearly don’t know what Halo is supposed to be
> > > > > >
> > > > > > lol, you cant answer the question. your brain just went no comprende.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i hate cod and titanfall yet i still think sprint is good. hmm…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > didnt i once tell you, halo multiplayer was actually inspired by counter strike, not an arena shooter?
> > > > >
> > > > > Counter Strike is still closer to an arena shooter than COD or Titanfall, you don’t understand how games work or what makes games like Halo work
> > > >
> > > > hmm really? its neither. countersrike is a tactical shooter.
> > > >
> > > > you have no points and now youre just telling me im wrong with no substance.
> > >
> > > That’s why I said “closer”
> >
> > it could be argued both ways but really it is neither
>
> how is it both ways, it has no sprint
> it only has 1 combat speed in which maps are designed around

it has fast tkk from long ranges with starting weapons.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its possible to add sprint onto standard bms and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like infinites slide.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > its possible to add sprint onto standard bms and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like infinites slide.It really depends on how you look a a game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, the concept of a combat speed and a traversal speed donnot fit the expectations I have for a Halo game. IMO the biggest problem this debate has is people of both sides trying to prove that sprint is either objectively good/Ok or objectively bad but it’s not that easy…you can list objective observations like “many popular shooter have a sprint mechanig thus adding it to Halo is necessary” or “Having sprint in the game forces the devs to change how maps are designed/how weapons are balanced” but what makes this issue so frustrating is te subjective part. Do you like how 343 has changed the gameplay? Yes, or no? And many people do not like how 343 has changed the gameplay, no matter how well thought out the change might sound to the other side.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would you like to have a cover mechanic in Halo? I wouldn’t but in the end, “its possible to add [a cover mechanic] onto standard [movement] and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like [wall bounces].” thing is, it might not fit your definition of Halo…
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully believe sprint and slide can compliment halo 3’s gameplay. sprint and slide merges its self with combat speed because you can shoot while sliding.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > but you can’t shoot while sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > why should you have to?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Because that’s the whole point of Halo and arena shooters, to shoot while moving instead of being forced to enter a different movement speed
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > why is that the whole point? explain why entering faster movement while not shooting is detrimental to halo. please dont give me the lazer weapon excuse.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Because that’s not Halo that’s not an arena shooter like quake and doom, you might as well say you’d prefer Halo to be like Titanfall and COD since you clearly don’t know what Halo is supposed to be
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > lol, you cant answer the question. your brain just went no comprende.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i hate cod and titanfall yet i still think sprint is good. hmm…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > didnt i once tell you, halo multiplayer was actually inspired by counter strike, not an arena shooter?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Counter Strike is still closer to an arena shooter than COD or Titanfall, you don’t understand how games work or what makes games like Halo work
> > > > >
> > > > > hmm really? its neither. countersrike is a tactical shooter.
> > > > >
> > > > > you have no points and now youre just telling me im wrong with no substance.
> > > >
> > > > That’s why I said “closer”
> > >
> > > it could be argued both ways but really it is neither
> >
> > how is it both ways, it has no sprint
> > it only has 1 combat speed in which maps are designed around
>
> it has fast tkk from long ranges with starting weapons.

and? sprint is the topic being discussed not ttk

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> maps seem to have well placed cover to me. i feel like this is a point people have conjured up in their mind. i would love to be proved wrong with some examples compared to a standard sized map like the pitstop. please no heretic vs truth comparisons

Cover placement has its own issues, though. If they’re placed according to sprint speed, it’s not viable to move from cover to cover during combat using BMS. However, if you decrease spacing according to BMS, you’re reducing line of sight, making a larger portion of the map obfuscated, hiding players that would otherwise be within combat range. That’s one of the reasons why in Halo games with sprint, matches take longer to finish with fewer kills being made, as less fights take place.

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> > > > > > > > > its possible to add sprint onto standard bms and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like infinites slide.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > its possible to add sprint onto standard bms and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like infinites slide.It really depends on how you look a a game.
> > > > > > > > To me, the concept of a combat speed and a traversal speed donnot fit the expectations I have for a Halo game. IMO the biggest problem this debate has is people of both sides trying to prove that sprint is either objectively good/Ok or objectively bad but it’s not that easy…you can list objective observations like “many popular shooter have a sprint mechanig thus adding it to Halo is necessary” or “Having sprint in the game forces the devs to change how maps are designed/how weapons are balanced” but what makes this issue so frustrating is te subjective part. Do you like how 343 has changed the gameplay? Yes, or no? And many people do not like how 343 has changed the gameplay, no matter how well thought out the change might sound to the other side.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Would you like to have a cover mechanic in Halo? I wouldn’t but in the end, “its possible to add [a cover mechanic] onto standard [movement] and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like [wall bounces].” thing is, it might not fit your definition of Halo…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I fully believe sprint and slide can compliment halo 3’s gameplay. sprint and slide merges its self with combat speed because you can shoot while sliding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but you can’t shoot while sprinting
> > > > >
> > > > > why should you have to?
> > > >
> > > > Because that’s the whole point of Halo and arena shooters, to shoot while moving instead of being forced to enter a different movement speed
> > >
> > > why is that the whole point? explain why entering faster movement while not shooting is detrimental to halo. please dont give me the lazer weapon excuse.
> >
> > Because the game encourages you to actively move while shooting. There’s a reason there’s no accuracy bonus when standing still, crouching or any other form of bonus for not moving and shooting. Arena Shooters thrive when players are able to move at max speed and shoot at the same time. The problem with Halo 5, is that the map is spaced with the expectation that players would be Sprinting to get around. The problem is that you can’t shoot and Sprint at the same time, so your ability to use cover, strafe, and otherwise manipulate your positioning in the environment for your benefit is greatly reduced with Sprint.
> > Part of the problem with Sprint as well, is that you can only translate maximum movement speed whilst going forward, and only whilst going forward. You cannot apply it to any of the other directions you can move in.
> >
> > This is why every weapon in Halo 5 was forced to go to hitscan as well. Halo 3’s weapons all fire projectiles (with minor exceptions), and it would be difficult to hit fast-moving targets that are Sprinting. Halo 3’s weapons would barely function in Halo 5 multiplayer unless the players all fire well ahead of the target so the projectiles have time to actually hit them.
>
> “map is spaced with the expectation that players would be Sprinting to get around”
>
> maps seem to have well placed cover to me. i feel like this is a point people have conjured up in their mind. i would love to be proved wrong with some examples compared to a standard sized map like the pitstop. please no heretic vs truth comparisons
>
> “Part of the problem with Sprint as well, is that you can only translate maximum movement speed whilst going forward”
>
> You didnt explain why thats a problem.
>
> “This is why every weapon in Halo 5 was forced to go to hitscan as well”
>
> it might be why 343 made a stupid design decision. thats about it. you should be hard to hit while sprinting. give sprint an extra reason to actually be in the game. whats important is, you cant activate sprint once in battle.

That’s why Thruster was put in the game. Players needed to be able to quickly shoot themselves into cover. Not having Thruster leaves the player exposed for much longer, enabling opponents to do substantially more damage to the player, potentially killing them before they’re able to get into cover. If Sprint were to be removed, the player would be moving at the intended speed at all times and mechanics like Thruster would be unnecessary to get into cover.

I thought I did, but the problem is that you can increase the base BMS and allow that increased speed to be applicable to every direction the player moves in. If you want to move slower, decrease pressure on the stick going in any direction. Allowing the player to move at the same speed regardless of direction enables them to dodge enemy fire easier and to get into cover while maintaining offensive capability. Celeste has a great explanation as well. As for maps, compare the size of Guardian to the general size of most maps in Arena Halo 5. Guardian is substantially smaller for an 4v4 map than most of the Halo 5 maps.

But then it wouldn’t be fun for the casual player, which was 343’s focus with Halo 5. This is why a lot of people hate Halo 3. It requires an extra level of skill that’s difficult to accomplish and gauge at a distance. Casual fans adore Halo 5 because it’s incredibly easy to play relative to other Halo games, and requires far less complex input with weapons on the player’s part to be effective in combat. You point, shoot and that’s the end of discussion (with most weapons). Sprint can also be technically activated in a fight to run away, as you can Sprint away when the enemy has to reload or stops firing. If you round a corner quick enough, you can break line of sight and run away. You just won’t regen shields until you stop, so find a good little bit of corner to hide in, and regen. It’s not that hard to do this.

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> how is it both ways, it has no sprint
> it only has 1 combat speed in which maps are designed around

Actually, movement speed in CS depends on the weapon you’re currently holding.

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> > 2535458188883243;4982:
> > how is it both ways, it has no sprint
> > it only has 1 combat speed in which maps are designed around
>
> Actually, movement speed in CS depends on the weapon you’re currently holding.

no enhanced movement speed state in which you are unable to use your weapon and the speed bonus/penalty applies in all directions

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> But then it wouldn’t be fun for the casual player, which was 343’s focus with Halo 5. This is why a lot of people hate Halo 3. It requires an extra level of skill that’s difficult to accomplish and gauge at a distance. Casual fans adore Halo 5 because it’s incredibly easy to play relative to other Halo games, and requires far less complex input with weapons on the player’s part to be effective in combat.

Huh? I think you have it backwards. Halo 3 was a way more casual-friendly game. H5G was consistently criticised throughout its lifetime for being “too sweaty”, especially by casual players.

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> please no heretic vs truth comparisons

Why not? Both seem pretty standard sized for their respective games. Both are different executions of the same map concept, so a sensible comparison can actually be made. You’re basically rejecting the most apples-to-apples comparison because it doesn’t fit your agenda.

Look, the notion that maps in a game with sprint are designed with the expectation that players are going to sprint is not “a point people have conjured up in their mind”. It’s just a basic principle of level design that levels should be designed with the movement abilities of the players in mind. Pick your battles. Don’t try to deny basic truths.

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> > maps seem to have well placed cover to me. i feel like this is a point people have conjured up in their mind. i would love to be proved wrong with some examples compared to a standard sized map like the pitstop. please no heretic vs truth comparisons
>
> Cover placement has its own issues, though. If they’re placed according to sprint speed, it’s not viable to move from cover to cover during combat using BMS. However, if you decrease spacin g according to BMS, you’re reducing line of sight, making a larger portion of the map obfuscated, hiding players that would otherwise be within combat range. That’s one of the reasons why in Halo games with sprint, matches take longer to finish with fewer kills being made, as less fights take place.

fair, instantly shooting people out of sprint would help alleviate that though if 343 goes that route in infinite. i mean that is why they have the dumb no shields recharge while sprinting too. shooting out of sprint would be better.

4992

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> > > how is it both ways, it has no sprint
> > > it only has 1 combat speed in which maps are designed around
> >
> > Actually, movement speed in CS depends on the weapon you’re currently holding.
>
> no enhanced movement speed state in which you are unable to use your weapon and the speed bonus/penalty applies in all directions

I mean, technically you have the highest movement speed with the knife, which as a melee weapon could be considered as a form of sprint, where you also only have access to melee attacks. That is, unless you get the Schmidt Scout, a sniper which is even slightly faster.
You are correct, of course, that the change in movement speed is omnidirectional.
Overall, I think CS has an entirely different movement system than both Arena games and “Military shooters” (for lack of a better term).

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> > > > > > > > > 2533274821339472;4955:
> > > > > > > > > its possible to add sprint onto standard bms and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like infinites slide.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > its possible to add sprint onto standard bms and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like infinites slide.It really depends on how you look a a game.
> > > > > > > > To me, the concept of a combat speed and a traversal speed donnot fit the expectations I have for a Halo game. IMO the biggest problem this debate has is people of both sides trying to prove that sprint is either objectively good/Ok or objectively bad but it’s not that easy…you can list objective observations like “many popular shooter have a sprint mechanig thus adding it to Halo is necessary” or “Having sprint in the game forces the devs to change how maps are designed/how weapons are balanced” but what makes this issue so frustrating is te subjective part. Do you like how 343 has changed the gameplay? Yes, or no? And many people do not like how 343 has changed the gameplay, no matter how well thought out the change might sound to the other side.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Would you like to have a cover mechanic in Halo? I wouldn’t but in the end, “its possible to add [a cover mechanic] onto standard [movement] and have 0 issues. Not only that, it can make the game more fun when you add things like [wall bounces].” thing is, it might not fit your definition of Halo…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I fully believe sprint and slide can compliment halo 3’s gameplay. sprint and slide merges its self with combat speed because you can shoot while sliding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but you can’t shoot while sprinting
> > > > >
> > > > > why should you have to?
> > > >
> > > > Because that’s the whole point of Halo and arena shooters, to shoot while moving instead of being forced to enter a different movement speed
> > >
> > > why is that the whole point? explain why entering faster movement while not shooting is detrimental to halo. please dont give me the lazer weapon excuse.
> >
> > Because the game encourages you to actively move while shooting. There’s a reason there’s no accuracy bonus when standing still, crouching or any other form of bonus for not moving and shooting. Arena Shooters thrive when players are able to move at max speed and shoot at the same time. The problem with Halo 5, is that the map is spaced with the expectation that players would be Sprinting to get around. The problem is that you can’t shoot and Sprint at the same time, so your ability to use cover, strafe, and otherwise manipulate your positioning in the environment for your benefit is greatly reduced with Sprint.
> > Part of the problem with Sprint as well, is that you can only translate maximum movement speed whilst going forward, and only whilst going forward. You cannot apply it to any of the other directions you can move in.
> >
> > This is why every weapon in Halo 5 was forced to go to hitscan as well. Halo 3’s weapons all fire projectiles (with minor exceptions), and it would be difficult to hit fast-moving targets that are Sprinting. Halo 3’s weapons would barely function in Halo 5 multiplayer unless the players all fire well ahead of the target so the projectiles have time to actually hit them.
>
> “map is spaced with the expectation that players would be Sprinting to get around”
>
> maps seem to have well placed cover to me. i feel like this is a point people have conjured up in their mind. i would love to be proved wrong with some examples compared to a standard sized map like the pitstop. please no heretic vs truth comparisons
>
> “Part of the problem with Sprint as well, is that you can only translate maximum movement speed whilst going forward”
>
> You didnt explain why thats a problem.
>
> “This is why every weapon in Halo 5 was forced to go to hitscan as well”
>
> it might be why 343 made a stupid design decision. thats about it. you should be hard to hit while sprinting. give sprint an extra reason to actually be in the game. whats important is, you cant activate sprint once in battle.

Lol well first off the maps may seem to have well placed cover to you, but the majority of human beings who played Halo all agree that classic maps are more fun than newer Halo maps. There are many reasons you could explain this but I think that the cover placement is the main one. The fact that our gunfight engagement speed has been so significantly cut down means there is so little maneuverability within gunfights that you pretty much just have to shoot it out. Why do you think thrust was necessary? Because the base strafe speed was not fast enough to matter. This is also part of the reason H5 is so sweaty. You have no other option but to land all your shots before the opponent does.

The problem with only translating maximum movement speed forward isn’t a big one, but again it just limits maneuverability in a way that is unlike arena shooters. Halo was about constant fluid movement in and out of gunfights all the while with your gun ready to engage again. Strafing left, right was a big part of this gunfighting, and because of Sprint normal movement speed has been destroyed and the replacement max movement speed is severely crippled because it is 1. Only in the forwards direction and 2. Doesn’t allow for gunfights.

343 are not stupid. They obviously made decisions that were necessary to make the game functional and playable. I think you are showcasing a crazy degree of cognitive dissonance by brushing off the h5 hitscan weapons as a “Stupid design decision”. Yes, it would be harder to hit people. To the point where you would really only be able to land shots in CQC range where both players will likely be out in the open due to stretching of maps, and slow as hell due to lower base movement speed. And this would likely rarely occur since players would most of the time be sliding, sprinting, thrusting around, and unable to be shot out of it. The game would basically become a traversal simulator. The problem is not hitscan, it is the gross difference in movement speeds between traversal and engagement.

I do not think sprint and slide cannot work at all in Halo. I think Infinite is going a pretty interesting route with almost a hybrid approach in lessening that movement speed gap, increasing strafe speed greatly, allowing you to shoot immediately out of sprint, etc. These seem like steps in the right direction, but I had hoped that maps would not appear as stretched as this first one they showed. Of course I will always prefer no sprint at all, but the addition of slide will add to the skill gap if sprint is balanced well. One cannot really know until we play it though.

4994

> 2533274801176260;4989:
> > 2533275031935123;4986:
> > But then it wouldn’t be fun for the casual player, which was 343’s focus with Halo 5. This is why a lot of people hate Halo 3. It requires an extra level of skill that’s difficult to accomplish and gauge at a distance. Casual fans adore Halo 5 because it’s incredibly easy to play relative to other Halo games, and requires far less complex input with weapons on the player’s part to be effective in combat.
>
> Huh? I think you have it backwards. Halo 3 was a way more casual-friendly game. H5G was consistently criticised throughout its lifetime for being “too sweaty”, especially by casual players.

I meant mostly in terms of weapon mechanics. Like, Halo 3’s weapon mechanics are annoying to the more casual fanbase, particularly in BTB maps. Weapon mechanics in 5G are much more casualized and easier to use than that of Halo 3.

Weapons 5G also get bonus damage for headshots. All of them.

4995

> 2533274825830455;4990:
> > 2533274821339472;4978:
> > please no heretic vs truth comparisons
>
> Why not? Both seem pretty standard sized for their respective games. Both are different executions of the same map concept, so a sensible comparison can actually be made. You’re basically rejecting the most apples-to-apples comparison because it doesn’t fit your agenda.
>
> Look, the notion that maps in a game with sprint are designed with the expectation that players are going to sprint is not “a point people have conjured up in their mind”. It’s just a basic principle of level design that levels should be designed with the movement abilities of the players in mind. Pick your battles. Don’t try to deny basic truths.

h5 dev maps all have a standard map size. h3 maps vary and heretic is a really small map that requires lots of cover. it is far from a apples to apples comparison. a much fairer approach is to take 2 similar sized maps from each game and compare how they use cover.

show me where maps have been adjusted for sprint besides sprint jumps. I dont see it.

4996

> 2533274821339472;4995:
> > 2533274825830455;4990:
> > > 2533274821339472;4978:
> > > please no heretic vs truth comparisons
> >
> > Why not? Both seem pretty standard sized for their respective games. Both are different executions of the same map concept, so a sensible comparison can actually be made. You’re basically rejecting the most apples-to-apples comparison because it doesn’t fit your agenda.
> >
> > Look, the notion that maps in a game with sprint are designed with the expectation that players are going to sprint is not “a point people have conjured up in their mind”. It’s just a basic principle of level design that levels should be designed with the movement abilities of the players in mind. Pick your battles. Don’t try to deny basic truths.
>
> h5 dev maps all have a standard map size. h3 maps vary and heretic is a really small map that requires lots of cover. it is far from a apples to apples comparison. a much fairer approach is to take 2 similar sized maps from each game and compare how they use cover.
>
> show me where maps have been adjusted for sprint besides sprint jumps. I dont see it.

Midship and H5 Midship ( forgot the name cause the maps sucks )

4997

> 2533274821339472;4995:
> > 2533274825830455;4990:
> > > 2533274821339472;4978:
> > > please no heretic vs truth comparisons
> >
> > Why not? Both seem pretty standard sized for their respective games. Both are different executions of the same map concept, so a sensible comparison can actually be made. You’re basically rejecting the most apples-to-apples comparison because it doesn’t fit your agenda.
> >
> > Look, the notion that maps in a game with sprint are designed with the expectation that players are going to sprint is not “a point people have conjured up in their mind”. It’s just a basic principle of level design that levels should be designed with the movement abilities of the players in mind. Pick your battles. Don’t try to deny basic truths.
>
> h5 dev maps all have a standard map size. h3 maps vary and heretic is a really small map that requires lots of cover. it is far from a apples to apples comparison. a much fairer approach is to take 2 similar sized maps from each game and compare how they use cover.
>
> show me where maps have been adjusted for sprint besides sprint jumps. I dont see it.

At this point you are gonna refuse to see any reason to defy your cognitive dissonance I think. But sure, lets take similar sized maps from each game even though in reality when accounting for the change in movement speed Truth and Midship are comparable. Lets take something like Standoff from H3 and Truth from H5. I would say if you ignore sprint those maps are pretty similar in size. Now lets try and play H5 Truth without sprint on. It would be horrendous. Not just because of hitscan weapons, but because there is almost no cover in between carbine tower, red base, blue base, mid, and pink tower. There are open expanses. I suppose you have bubble but that again is a very wide stretch of cover. Now compare that to standoff in H3 (which is literally a BTB map). It had to be balanced for vehicles so yes there are sections on the far left and right of the map that are more open, however, from any position on the map one can easily get to cover through the very dense midsection of the map which has plenty of rocks, boulders, etc. The red and blue base also have very tight CQC combat that you could never see in H5. There is a lot of room for out-maneuvering enemies on that map. You have very little room for that in Truth on H5, and that isnt even taking into account vehicle routes.

4998

> 2535458188883243;4996:
> > 2533274821339472;4995:
> > > 2533274825830455;4990:
> > > > 2533274821339472;4978:
> > > > please no heretic vs truth comparisons
> > >
> > > Why not? Both seem pretty standard sized for their respective games. Both are different executions of the same map concept, so a sensible comparison can actually be made. You’re basically rejecting the most apples-to-apples comparison because it doesn’t fit your agenda.
> > >
> > > Look, the notion that maps in a game with sprint are designed with the expectation that players are going to sprint is not “a point people have conjured up in their mind”. It’s just a basic principle of level design that levels should be designed with the movement abilities of the players in mind. Pick your battles. Don’t try to deny basic truths.
> >
> > h5 dev maps all have a standard map size. h3 maps vary and heretic is a really small map that requires lots of cover. it is far from a apples to apples comparison. a much fairer approach is to take 2 similar sized maps from each game and compare how they use cover.
> >
> > show me where maps have been adjusted for sprint besides sprint jumps. I dont see it.
>
> Midship and H5 Midship ( forgot the name cause the maps sucks )

i dont remember names either but i think its simlar to h3 heretic vs h5 truth. theyre not fair comparisons for reasons explained above

4999

Can this thread die thank you the old ways of halo are gone the new way will ever be accepted so what will be the ever ending debate :thinking:, oh yes let’s take a forum and bicker like entitled children.
Make the game caterer to how ever it wants if your not happy then leave. If I was the take a shot in the dark how many people in this thread wish for the old style of halo a few hundreds. Hundreds dont make bank nor does it keep the lights on so because some Youtuber with less than a million is not the arbitrator of what is expectation from a wider consumer market. I find Halo Infinite development a problem of bad development no thanks to covid but a dependence of spoon feeding to a fanatic sub group, nostalgia pandering, fan over expectations and blind imagination.
What was shown was very lackluster the latest books where bland the quality of content from YouTube to here is for a lack of better word is something I leave to your imagination.
Whatever Halo become in the next few years will be great but I will not care so bring on the hate. 343 make an first person shooter that isn’t micro managed by the blind petty people how cant evolve to the times because of nostalgia. From halo CE to Halo 5 I played them all love them all.

5000

> 2533274799966722;4999:
> Can this thread die thank you the old ways of halo are gone the new way will ever be accepted so what will be the ever ending debate :thinking:, oh yes let’s take a forum and bicker like entitled children.

You’re free to simply not be here.

I really don’t know what you expect to randomly come into a thread to talk down to people with a different opinion and call them petty, as if you have some sort of moral high ground.

And according to you, you said you weren’t going to buy it if the game was “Halo 3.5”, so you’re really acting no better than the people you’re trying to lord over.

5001

> 2533274925072192;4997:
> > 2533274821339472;4995:
> > > 2533274825830455;4990:
> > > > 2533274821339472;4978:
> > > > please no heretic vs truth comparisons
> > >
> > > Why not? Both seem pretty standard sized for their respective games. Both are different executions of the same map concept, so a sensible comparison can actually be made. You’re basically rejecting the most apples-to-apples comparison because it doesn’t fit your agenda.
> > >
> > > Look, the notion that maps in a game with sprint are designed with the expectation that players are going to sprint is not “a point people have conjured up in their mind”. It’s just a basic principle of level design that levels should be designed with the movement abilities of the players in mind. Pick your battles. Don’t try to deny basic truths.
> >
> > h5 dev maps all have a standard map size. h3 maps vary and heretic is a really small map that requires lots of cover. it is far from a apples to apples comparison. a much fairer approach is to take 2 similar sized maps from each game and compare how they use cover.
> >
> > show me where maps have been adjusted for sprint besides sprint jumps. I dont see it.
>
> At this point you are gonna refuse to see any reason to defy your cognitive dissonance I think. But sure, lets take similar sized maps from each game even though in reality when accounting for the change in movement speed Truth and Midship are comparable. Lets take something like Standoff from H3 and Truth from H5. I would say if you ignore sprint those maps are pretty similar in size. Now lets try and play H5 Truth without sprint on. It would be horrendous. Not just because of hitscan weapons, but because there is almost no cover in between carbine tower, red base, blue base, mid, and pink tower. There are open expanses. I suppose you have bubble but that again is a very wide stretch of cover. Now compare that to standoff in H3 (which is literally a BTB map). It had to be balanced for vehicles so yes there are sections on the far left and right of the map that are more open, however, from any position on the map one can easily get to cover through the very dense midsection of the map which has plenty of rocks, boulders, etc. The red and blue base also have very tight CQC combat that you could never see in H5. There is a lot of room for out-maneuvering enemies on that map. You have very little room for that in Truth on H5, and that isnt even taking into account vehicle routes.

truth was designed to be no mans land in the middle. sandtrap was designed to push players to go to the center. sandtrap has no mans lands on the sides while truth is designed to be played on the sides. youre confusing different styles of maps. what you should compare is how each map uses close quarters combat and long range combat. compare the close quarter designs to close quarter designs and the long range designs to long range designs.