I’m indifferent to sprint, but I feel like people just need to get used to it. It’s clearly not going anywhere anytime in the near future. Those of us on Waypoint don’t have even a fraction of the influence that the pro players who work directly with 343 on movement mechanics do.
> 2535471549753639;4921:
> I know “realistic” is an absurd thing to really talk about with Halo but H5 is the first multiplayer where I actually feel like humanities best super soldier, which is super fun if it can be balanced!
Feelings are a funny thing, they differ from person to person.
Just to give you some perspective, for me personally, H5G felt the least “super” out of the entire franchise:
- In the original Halo trilogy I could run and shoot at the same time. Now, I have to lower my gun to run at speeds a fraction of what Spartans are actually capapble of. - In the original Halo trilogy the gun itself was telling the armor where it was pointing. Now I have to manually aim through crude ironsights. - In the original Halo trilogy I could just jump up walls 1.5 times as high as myself (and backwards) due to the powerful hydraulics in my suit. Now I have to face the wall and painfully scramble over the edge.Every time I go back to the classic Halo games, I feel unleashed. No longer tied down by the arbitrary restrictions imposed on me. Hell, even ODST makes me feel more powerful than any 343 game ever did.
> 2533274801176260;4920:
> > 2533274825830455;4919:
> > Slowing players down when they get hit seems entirely antithetical to Halo’s gameplay philosophy of encouraging movement and confrontation.
>
> A strange statement to make, given that Halo CE already slowed the player down when hit with the plasma rifle. Although that is a stun specifically tied to the weapon in question and not the movement as a whole.
Fair, I didn’t think my words through enough.
> 2533274801176260;4923:
> Feelings are a funny thing, they differ from person to person.
>
> Just to give you some perspective, for me personally, H5G felt the least “super” out of the entire franchise:
> - In the original Halo trilogy I could run and shoot at the same time. Now, I have to lower my gun to run at speeds a fraction of what Spartans are actually capapble of. - In the original Halo trilogy the gun itself was telling the armor where it was pointing. Now I have to manually aim through crude ironsights. - In the original Halo trilogy I could just jump up walls 1.5 times as high as myself (and backwards) due to the powerful hydraulics in my suit. Now I have to face the wall and painfully scramble over the edge.Every time I go back to the classic Halo games, I feel unleashed. No longer tied down by the arbitrary restrictions imposed on me. Hell, even ODST makes me feel more powerful than any 343 game ever did.
I want both! lol, Jump height absolutely should be higher, but I like clamber so that when I jump up I can use my arms like my brain wants to to get even higher. I also totally agree with gun up and no need for ADS, though ADS didn’t bother me as much as I thought it might.
Halo 5 sprint is objectively faster than the “run” in the originally trilogy, and that does effect gameplay and feel even accounting for map size and design, I am saying I would love to keep gun up while having a higher run speed and more intense run animation at top speed to match. No reason they cant animate everything from walk to run to sprint while keeping the gun up. It would also be sweet if there was a variable jump height but that might be a nightmare to implement. But just like with run speed, I would like to be able to control my jump height to some degree. Clamber addresses that in one aspect but its still not exactly the same. I understand what I want is probably an unreasonably tall order.
> 2535471549753639;4921:
> I agree with all that, my idea was only a thought to explore. I absolutely believe that adding this complication would add an avenue for skill gap (much higher selection pressure on good engagements and map control), but as you point out it is trading out with other avenues for skill gap (chaining kills and generally clutching it up). In this case it may not be worth the trade off. I would LOVE to keep advanced mobility offered by H5 (other than spartan/gpound) while also keeping gun up gameplay so that there is no “escapeability problem” other than someone simply being better at movement. I may be wrong but I think I speak for most fans of H5 mechanics when I say we enjoy the skill gap in map movement. I believe you can make a fun fast paced game with incredible movement options while also keeping gun up gameplay. I don’t necessarily think that is what we are getting with infinite either, just my thoughts.
I definitely believe there exists gameplay that is much more true to the classic style, but also gives some extension to the movement mechanics. I’m happy that you’re open to that line of thinking. Halo 5 has some fine ideas, and there’s a subset of Spartan Abilities that adds some meaningful depth. I just want people to be open to the idea that we don’t need to have Halo 5 and its grab bag of movement mechanics to have fast and interesting movement. Maybe even to the idea that Halo 5 has some shortcomings in faithful and clean execution of that kind of movement.
I think it is possible to build on classic movement in a way that’s elegant, sustainable, respectful, and doesn’t scare people away. But I think that in order to do that, one needs to think outside of Halo 5, and not think it (or a subset of it) is the only possible way to extend movement.
> 2535471549753639;4911:
> As a side note, one of the things I like with H5’s sprint is how it disincentives use when you have taken damage. Perhaps there could be a way to peg health regen (just health not shields in this case) to movement speed. So if you take heavy damage your top speed is similarly taxed, or your health cant regen until you reduce to a walking speed. Not only is it realistic (not that important) it keeps one of the more redeemable aspects of H5 sprint with regards to implementation and skill gap.
I believe knocking the player out of sprint whenever they take damage—similar to descoping!—is how you permanently revoke sprint’s get-out-of-jail-free card.
> 2535413438704827;4927:
> > 2535471549753639;4911:
> > As a side note, one of the things I like with H5’s sprint is how it disincentives use when you have taken damage. Perhaps there could be a way to peg health regen (just health not shields in this case) to movement speed. So if you take heavy damage your top speed is similarly taxed, or your health cant regen until you reduce to a walking speed. Not only is it realistic (not that important) it keeps one of the more redeemable aspects of H5 sprint with regards to implementation and skill gap.
>
> I believe knocking the player out of sprint whenever they take damage—similar to descoping!—is how you permanently revoke sprint’s get-out-of-jail-free card.
Why even have the mechanic then? if it’s not even going to be used as you get knocked out of it instantly
> 2535458188883243;4928:
> > 2535413438704827;4927:
> > > 2535471549753639;4911:
> > > As a side note, one of the things I like with H5’s sprint is how it disincentives use when you have taken damage. Perhaps there could be a way to peg health regen (just health not shields in this case) to movement speed. So if you take heavy damage your top speed is similarly taxed, or your health cant regen until you reduce to a walking speed. Not only is it realistic (not that important) it keeps one of the more redeemable aspects of H5 sprint with regards to implementation and skill gap.
> >
> > I believe knocking the player out of sprint whenever they take damage—similar to descoping!—is how you permanently revoke sprint’s get-out-of-jail-free card.
>
> Why even have the mechanic then? if it’s not even going to be used as you get knocked out of it instantly
This is intended to curtail sprint’s busted escapability. You’ll still be able to sprint from point A to point B in this scenario. What you won’t be able to do anymore is lazily sprint from point A to point B without the possibility of being punished.
The complete removal of sprint is my personal preference, but considering it’s confirmed for H:I, desprinting seems much more likely to make it in an actual Halo game.
> 2533274825830455;4902:
> > 2533274801176260;4901:
> > I have a feeling you are somewhat misunderstanding what WerepyreND is trying to conveigh.
>
> Maybe I am.
>
> The context of my original comment was that I, we, had just more or less dismissed the idea that almost all popular games having sprint suggests that most gamers prefer sprint. Not because it’s not evidence, but because it’s a very weak piece of evidence. In that same context, he had said
>
>
> > 2533274819446242;4871:
> > Gotta love it when folks try and use the number of popular games with sprint as evidence that sprint is necessary in order to be successful while handwaving away the obvious exceptions.
>
> Notice his use of “evidence” not “proof”.
>
> When he then points at the popularity of Halo 3, I infer (maybe erroneously), that he thinks it’s a much stronger piece of evidence than the one he just dismissed. I disagree with that idea. I think the fact that it has been so many years since a classic Halo game renders the importance of Halo 3 very minor without additional information.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274801176260;4901:
> > I must also say, you have a very weird stance on evidence in general. A piece of evidence does not have to prove or disprove something on its own in order to be valid, that’s not how arguments work. You slowly add multiple pieces of evidence that complement one another to build a case. The combined sum of all evicence is then used as proof for a claim. Halo 3 doesn’t need to project any curves into the future, it just needs to relate to another statement used in the argument that furthers the discussion. Preemptively killing even a single piece of evidence (if it isn’t wrong in the first place) breaks this chain and prevents lines of thought from taking shape that do have merit once they are finished.
>
> No, no, that’s definitely not my stance on evidence. The point I was trying to make is the complete opposite: evidence isn’t binary; different evidence have different strength. My point was about the perceived strength of the evidence. I think WerepyreND perceives the importance of Halo 3 as much greater than I do. Maybe it’s just a misunderstanding on my part.
>
> Maybe “dismiss” was the wrong word choice to begin with. I never meant that we just throw the evidence in the trash and never think about it afterwards. I meant it in the sense of “okay, now that I have this, does it bring enough new information that I need to update my beliefs?”
I like the idea of distinction, the fact that many games have sprint means that a modern Halo title with no sprint would be very different than what is currently offered on the market. That means Halo would offer a unique experience and I believe fans would appreciate that important distinction.
> 2535471549753639;4925:
> I want both! lol, Jump height absolutely should be higher, but I like clamber so that when I jump up I can use my arms like my brain wants to to get even higher. I also totally agree with gun up and no need for ADS, though ADS didn’t bother me as much as I thought it might.
>
> Halo 5 sprint is objectively faster than the “run” in the originally trilogy, and that does effect gameplay and feel even accounting for map size and design, I am saying I would love to keep gun up while having a higher run speed and more intense run animation at top speed to match. No reason they cant animate everything from walk to run to sprint while keeping the gun up. It would also be sweet if there was a variable jump height but that might be a nightmare to implement. But just like with run speed, I would like to be able to control my jump height to some degree. Clamber addresses that in one aspect but its still not exactly the same. I understand what I want is probably an unreasonably tall order.
Variable jump height could in theory implemented by measuring how long the jump button is held: Simply pressing it would give you the lowest jump while holding it down has the player slowly starting to squat, giving you more height when you let go.
I’ve said this before and I will say it again doom 2016 gameplay in halo would be better than sprint.
> 2535407747275549;4932:
> I’ve said this before and I will say it again doom 2016 gameplay in halo would be better than sprint.
dooms multiplayer says otherwise
> 2533274821339472;4933:
> > 2535407747275549;4932:
> > I’ve said this before and I will say it again doom 2016 gameplay in halo would be better than sprint.
>
> dooms multiplayer says otherwise
Explain
> 2533274821339472;4933:
> > 2535407747275549;4932:
> > I’ve said this before and I will say it again doom 2016 gameplay in halo would be better than sprint.
>
> dooms multiplayer says otherwise
Doom 2016 multiplayer featured perks, two weapon limit and a customizable loadout.
Doom 2016 single player was praised for deviating from the “bucket list” items of “modern mechanics”.
> 2535407747275549;4934:
> > 2533274821339472;4933:
> > > 2535407747275549;4932:
> > > I’ve said this before and I will say it again doom 2016 gameplay in halo would be better than sprint.
> >
> > dooms multiplayer says otherwise
>
> Explain
no one plays the multiplayer
> 2533274821339472;4936:
> > 2535407747275549;4934:
> > > 2533274821339472;4933:
> > > > 2535407747275549;4932:
> > > > I’ve said this before and I will say it again doom 2016 gameplay in halo would be better than sprint.
> > >
> > > dooms multiplayer says otherwise
> >
> > Explain
>
> no one plays the multiplayer
To be fair, I actually played DOOM 2016’s multiplayer after all the changes were made and the DLC was made free, and I loved every second of it. Not only that, I was finding matches very fast during that time, implying many others liked it, too. I initially played it for the achievements, but I loved it so much that I went the extra mile and achieved max rank (which was about as difficult as it was in Halo 4).
While the multiplayer is far from perfect, if I had to choose between DOOM and Halo 4 multiplayer, I would probably choose DOOM.
> 2535449076192416;4937:
> > 2533274821339472;4936:
> > > 2535407747275549;4934:
> > > > 2533274821339472;4933:
> > > > > 2535407747275549;4932:
> > > > > I’ve said this before and I will say it again doom 2016 gameplay in halo would be better than sprint.
> > > >
> > > > dooms multiplayer says otherwise
> > >
> > > Explain
> >
> > no one plays the multiplayer
>
> To be fair, I actually played DOOM 2016’s multiplayer after all the changes were made and the DLC was made free, and I loved every second of it. Not only that, I was finding matches very fast during that time, implying many others liked it, too. I initially played it for the achievements, but I loved it so much that I went the extra mile and achieved max rank (which was about as difficult as it was in Halo 4).
>
> While the multiplayer is far from perfect, if I had to choose between DOOM and Halo 4 multiplayer, I would probably choose DOOM.
halo 5 is more popular, so it kinda defeats the other guys sprint argument
anything is better than halo 4’s multiplayer
> 2533274821339472;4938:
> halo 5 is more popular, so it kinda defeats the other guys sprint argument
More popular than what? Doom?
I would (once again) like a source on that statement, because afaik we haven’t seen population statistics for either game.
We can only infer onto H5G’s mulitplayer that it had a smaller population than Halo 4, because it was consistently below Battlefront on the “Most Played” List, and that game had a Population Counter.
> 2533274821339472;4938:
> anything is better than halo 4’s multiplayer
Except H5G’s multiplayer, which was even worse…
> 2533274821339472;4936:
> > 2535407747275549;4934:
> > > 2533274821339472;4933:
> > > > 2535407747275549;4932:
> > > > I’ve said this before and I will say it again doom 2016 gameplay in halo would be better than sprint.
> > >
> > > dooms multiplayer says otherwise
> >
> > Explain
>
> no one plays the multiplayer
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;4936:
> > > 2535407747275549;4934:
> > > > 2533274821339472;4933:
> > > > > 2535407747275549;4932:
> > > > > I’ve said this before and I will say it again doom 2016 gameplay in halo would be better than sprint.
> > > >
> > > > dooms multiplayer says otherwise
> > >
> > > Explain
> >
> > no one plays the multiplayer
>
> They do just not many and using that logic no one plays halo 5
> 2533274801176260;4939:
> > 2533274821339472;4938:
> > halo 5 is more popular, so it kinda defeats the other guys sprint argument
>
> More popular than what? Doom?
> I would (once again) like a source on that statement, because afaik we haven’t seen population statistics for either game.
> We can only infer onto H5G’s mulitplayer that it had a smaller population than Halo 4, because it was consistently below Battlefront on the “Most Played” List, and that game had a Population Counter.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;4938:
> > anything is better than halo 4’s multiplayer
>
> Except H5G’s multiplayer, which was even worse…
if you look on xbox’s most played you will see doom aint even on the list. Most played games - Microsoft Store
i think most halo fans prefer 5’s multiplayer over 4’s even if they are both crap.