> 2535406260637191;4841:
> As long as it doesn’t result in upscaled maps like in Halo 5, but honestly I would rather it wasn’t present at all. I don’t use sprint, so I’m actually at a disadvantage when crossing the maps…and let’s not forget places that could normally be reached with a jump being elevated to force the use of clamber…
At this point, I’m indifferent to clamber. It’s pointless to me and I’ll never actually ‘enjoy’ climbing onto a ledge (even though 343 said I would—that was literally how they pitched it in the first place), but I don’t hate it.
> 2533274833081329;4839:
> > 2533274825044752;4831:
> > Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s going to be quite a challenge to convince a publisher that ignoring popular gaming trends within the industry and turning the clock back to 2008 is going to drive sales through the roof.
>
> This is generally the kind of line that gets me to believe that people are purposely being disingenuous.
>
> Unless Halo 5 is so shallow that the only difference between it and a game like Halo 3 is the existence of sprint and some other ability, then there must be more to it to make a game “modern.”
>
> Especially when we’re currently in timeline where what we’ve seen of the next Halo game is 343 removing some of those very mechanics that people claimed were modern in the first place. For all what people tell me that Halo has “evolved”, people sure aren’t despising Halo Infinite for turning the clock back to 2008 and regressing back to Halo 3.
>
> The only difference between removing something like Ground Pound and removing something like sprint is that people don’t have an almost fanatical infatuation over Ground Pound.
What I’m getting from this is lots of people like sprint and lots of people don’t like ground pound. Doesn’t need to be anymore complicated than that.
> 2533274825044752;4843:
> > 2533274833081329;4839:
> > > 2533274825044752;4831:
> > > Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s going to be quite a challenge to convince a publisher that ignoring popular gaming trends within the industry and turning the clock back to 2008 is going to drive sales through the roof.
> >
> > This is generally the kind of line that gets me to believe that people are purposely being disingenuous.
> >
> > Unless Halo 5 is so shallow that the only difference between it and a game like Halo 3 is the existence of sprint and some other ability, then there must be more to it to make a game “modern.”
> >
> > Especially when we’re currently in timeline where what we’ve seen of the next Halo game is 343 removing some of those very mechanics that people claimed were modern in the first place. For all what people tell me that Halo has “evolved”, people sure aren’t despising Halo Infinite for turning the clock back to 2008 and regressing back to Halo 3.
> >
> > The only difference between removing something like Ground Pound and removing something like sprint is that people don’t have an almost fanatical infatuation over Ground Pound.
>
> What I’m getting from this is lots of people like sprint and lots of people don’t like ground pound. Doesn’t need to be anymore complicated than that.
But how does any of that relate to "turning back the clock to 2008?
Or, in a way, a different take on the “current year” argument-type?
Which was mentioned.
> 2535448420665173;4842:
> > 2535406260637191;4841:
> > As long as it doesn’t result in upscaled maps like in Halo 5, but honestly I would rather it wasn’t present at all. I don’t use sprint, so I’m actually at a disadvantage when crossing the maps…and let’s not forget places that could normally be reached with a jump being elevated to force the use of clamber…
>
> At this point, I’m indifferent to clamber. It’s pointless to me and I’ll never actually ‘enjoy’ climbing onto a ledge (even though 343 said I would—that was literally how they pitched it in the first place), but I don’t hate it.
My issue with clamber, is that it appears to be fixing a problem that Bungie created with Reach. Reach’s jump is nowhere near as good as Halo 3’s, but you can use a Jetpack in Reach. So I think what was intended, was you would use the jetpack to give you a little extra boost to make jumps outside your range. This is also present in Halo 4, as you have a Jetpack in that game as well. This is why I feel like people say “I miss my jumps too much!” for justification of why Clamber should stay. You can miss a lot of jumps in Reach and 4 if you don’t have Jetpack.
Halo 5 doesn’t have the Jetpack, so the solution to the problem is the clamber animation instead of just increasing the jump height/lowering gravity to be similar to Halo 3.
> 2533274825044752;4843:
> > 2533274833081329;4839:
> > > 2533274825044752;4831:
> > > Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s going to be quite a challenge to convince a publisher that ignoring popular gaming trends within the industry and turning the clock back to 2008 is going to drive sales through the roof.
> >
> > This is generally the kind of line that gets me to believe that people are purposely being disingenuous.
> >
> > Unless Halo 5 is so shallow that the only difference between it and a game like Halo 3 is the existence of sprint and some other ability, then there must be more to it to make a game “modern.”
> >
> > Especially when we’re currently in timeline where what we’ve seen of the next Halo game is 343 removing some of those very mechanics that people claimed were modern in the first place. For all what people tell me that Halo has “evolved”, people sure aren’t despising Halo Infinite for turning the clock back to 2008 and regressing back to Halo 3.
> >
> > The only difference between removing something like Ground Pound and removing something like sprint is that people don’t have an almost fanatical infatuation over Ground Pound.
>
> What I’m getting from this is lots of people like sprint and lots of people don’t like ground pound. Doesn’t need to be anymore complicated than that.
I mean that didn’t answer…any of what I said. I almost would have rather you not respond.
People told me they liked all the Spartan abilities, so what puts you in a position to say that Ground Pound specifically isn’t liked and sprint specifically is liked?
> 2535470151368935;4842:
> > 2535406260637191;4841:
> > As long as it doesn’t result in upscaled maps like in Halo 5, but honestly I would rather it wasn’t present at all. I don’t use sprint, so I’m actually at a disadvantage when crossing the maps…and let’s not forget places that could normally be reached with a jump being elevated to force the use of clamber…
>
> At this point, I’m indifferent to clamber. It’s pointless to me and I’ll never actually ‘enjoy’ climbing onto a ledge (even though 343 said I would—that was literally how they pitched it in the first place), but I don’t hate it.
How can some of you guys complain about clamber (cant shoot while climbing), fail!! Would you complain about a better physics engine, just makes the game look more realistic, like ripples in the water when you walk through.
> 2535424388350319;4847:
> > 2535470151368935;4842:
> > > 2535406260637191;4841:
> > > As long as it doesn’t result in upscaled maps like in Halo 5, but honestly I would rather it wasn’t present at all. I don’t use sprint, so I’m actually at a disadvantage when crossing the maps…and let’s not forget places that could normally be reached with a jump being elevated to force the use of clamber…
> >
> > At this point, I’m indifferent to clamber. It’s pointless to me and I’ll never actually ‘enjoy’ climbing onto a ledge (even though 343 said I would—that was literally how they pitched it in the first place), but I don’t hate it.
>
> How can some of you guys complain about clamber (cant shoot while climbing), fail!! Would you complain about a better physics engine, just makes the game look more realistic, like ripples in the water when you walk through.
the point flying
your head
please read what they said in response to clamber and then respond to their points instead of just complaining for no reason
> 2535424388350319;4847:
> > 2535470151368935;4842:
> > > 2535406260637191;4841:
> > > As long as it doesn’t result in upscaled maps like in Halo 5, but honestly I would rather it wasn’t present at all. I don’t use sprint, so I’m actually at a disadvantage when crossing the maps…and let’s not forget places that could normally be reached with a jump being elevated to force the use of clamber…
> >
> > At this point, I’m indifferent to clamber. It’s pointless to me and I’ll never actually ‘enjoy’ climbing onto a ledge (even though 343 said I would—that was literally how they pitched it in the first place), but I don’t hate it.
>
> How can some of you guys complain about clamber (cant shoot while climbing), fail!! Would you complain about a better physics engine, just makes the game look more realistic, like ripples in the water when you walk through.
Because rather than play an animation, they can increase the Jump Height back to that of Halo 3 so you can have access to jumps easier, voiding the necessity for clamber.
> 2535424388350319;4847:
> > 2535470151368935;4842:
> > > 2535406260637191;4841:
> > > As long as it doesn’t result in upscaled maps like in Halo 5, but honestly I would rather it wasn’t present at all. I don’t use sprint, so I’m actually at a disadvantage when crossing the maps…and let’s not forget places that could normally be reached with a jump being elevated to force the use of clamber…
> >
> > At this point, I’m indifferent to clamber. It’s pointless to me and I’ll never actually ‘enjoy’ climbing onto a ledge (even though 343 said I would—that was literally how they pitched it in the first place), but I don’t hate it.
>
> How can some of you guys complain about clamber (cant shoot while climbing), fail!! Would you complain about a better physics engine, just makes the game look more realistic, like ripples in the water when you walk through.
Most people don’t have realism as their top priority in video games, especially when it comes to gameplay. Even in cases like your water ripples, the realism is just a tool to reach something deeper like immersion or aesthetic pleasure.
Not all people seek immersion in the gameplay of Halo. Or if they do, they don’t find it primarily from realism. For those people, your point about Clamber being more realistic means nothing, because it isn’t something they care about. Your analogy is poor, because it only works for people who share your preferences. For those who don’t, it completely misses the point.
> 2533274833081329;4846:
> > 2533274825044752;4843:
> > > 2533274833081329;4839:
> > > > 2533274825044752;4831:
> > > > Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s going to be quite a challenge to convince a publisher that ignoring popular gaming trends within the industry and turning the clock back to 2008 is going to drive sales through the roof.
> > >
> > > This is generally the kind of line that gets me to believe that people are purposely being disingenuous.
> > >
> > > Unless Halo 5 is so shallow that the only difference between it and a game like Halo 3 is the existence of sprint and some other ability, then there must be more to it to make a game “modern.”
> > >
> > > Especially when we’re currently in timeline where what we’ve seen of the next Halo game is 343 removing some of those very mechanics that people claimed were modern in the first place. For all what people tell me that Halo has “evolved”, people sure aren’t despising Halo Infinite for turning the clock back to 2008 and regressing back to Halo 3.
> > >
> > > The only difference between removing something like Ground Pound and removing something like sprint is that people don’t have an almost fanatical infatuation over Ground Pound.
> >
> > What I’m getting from this is lots of people like sprint and lots of people don’t like ground pound. Doesn’t need to be anymore complicated than that.
>
> I mean that didn’t answer…any of what I said. I almost would have rather you not respond.
>
> People told me they liked all the Spartan abilities, so what puts you in a position to say that Ground Pound specifically isn’t liked and sprint specifically is liked?
I was just going off of what you said. The last line of your post that I replied to talked about a “fanatical devotion” to sprint and not ground pound. My point being, if so many people like sprint that much, then there is a reason for that.
All these people biased against sprint keep making this issue way more complicated than it needs to be. The cream rises to the top. Today’s gamers prefer sprint.
> 2533274825044752;4851:
> All these people biased against sprint keep making this issue way more complicated than it needs to be. The cream rises to the top. Today’s gamers prefer sprint.
> 2533274801176260;4852:
> > 2533274825044752;4851:
> > All these people biased against sprint keep making this issue way more complicated than it needs to be. The cream rises to the top. Today’s gamers prefer sprint.
>
> [Citation Needed]
every shooter in the top 50 xbox live games except overwatch
> 2533274825782531;4853:
> > 2533274801176260;4852:
> > > 2533274825044752;4851:
> > > All these people biased against sprint keep making this issue way more complicated than it needs to be. The cream rises to the top. Today’s gamers prefer sprint.
> >
> > [Citation Needed]
>
> every shooter in the top 50 xbox live games except overwatch
That’s probably more because they are indifferent toward it. I’ve never heard anyone say they would not play a game because it has no sprint, nor have I ever heard anyone say they would play a game because the inclusion of it.
And atop your point, were Halo 4 and 5 not the shortest lived Halo games in the online aspect? So could I then say sprint causes games to shrivel and die immediately? No, because there are other factors at play- it’s not “sprint=more sales” and “no sprint=less sales”.
> 2533274825044752;4851:
> > 2533274833081329;4846:
> > > 2533274825044752;4843:
> > > > 2533274833081329;4839:
> > > > > 2533274825044752;4831:
> > > > > Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s going to be quite a challenge to convince a publisher that ignoring popular gaming trends within the industry and turning the clock back to 2008 is going to drive sales through the roof.
> > > >
> > > > This is generally the kind of line that gets me to believe that people are purposely being disingenuous.
> > > >
> > > > Unless Halo 5 is so shallow that the only difference between it and a game like Halo 3 is the existence of sprint and some other ability, then there must be more to it to make a game “modern.”
> > > >
> > > > Especially when we’re currently in timeline where what we’ve seen of the next Halo game is 343 removing some of those very mechanics that people claimed were modern in the first place. For all what people tell me that Halo has “evolved”, people sure aren’t despising Halo Infinite for turning the clock back to 2008 and regressing back to Halo 3.
> > > >
> > > > The only difference between removing something like Ground Pound and removing something like sprint is that people don’t have an almost fanatical infatuation over Ground Pound.
> > >
> > > What I’m getting from this is lots of people like sprint and lots of people don’t like ground pound. Doesn’t need to be anymore complicated than that.
> >
> > I mean that didn’t answer…any of what I said. I almost would have rather you not respond.
> >
> > People told me they liked all the Spartan abilities, so what puts you in a position to say that Ground Pound specifically isn’t liked and sprint specifically is liked?
>
> I was just going off of what you said. The last line of your post that I replied to talked about a “fanatical devotion” to sprint and not ground pound. My point being, if so many people like sprint that much, then there is a reason for that.
>
> All these people biased against sprint keep making this issue way more complicated than it needs to be. The cream rises to the top. Today’s gamers prefer sprint.
I have nothing against people who like sprint. I specifically talked about the “fanatical devotion” because some people do have a fanatical devotion that extends beyond “I like sprint.” Going “lots of people like Sprint” tells me nothing.
People like lots of things that were removed in this series, let alone other series.
Most, if not all of my experiences to understand that devotion is met with simple hypocrisy - hence me comparing it to Ground Pound. You said it wasn’t complicated, I guess you were right on that front.
> 2533274825782531;4853:
> > 2533274801176260;4852:
> > > 2533274825044752;4851:
> > > All these people biased against sprint keep making this issue way more complicated than it needs to be. The cream rises to the top. Today’s gamers prefer sprint.
> >
> > [Citation Needed]
>
> every shooter in the top 50 xbox live games except overwatch
Pretty sure someone told you this before, No one seems to be having any issues with Rainbow Six Siege missing a traditional Jump button.
> 2533274825782531;4853:
> > 2533274801176260;4852:
> > > 2533274825044752;4851:
> > > All these people biased against sprint keep making this issue way more complicated than it needs to be. The cream rises to the top. Today’s gamers prefer sprint.
> >
> > [Citation Needed]
>
> every shooter in the top 50 xbox live games except overwatch
They also all have Microtransactions.
By your logic, that proves that today’s gamers prefer having MTX over not having MTX.
> 2533274825782531;4853:
> > 2533274801176260;4852:
> > > 2533274825044752;4851:
> > > All these people biased against sprint keep making this issue way more complicated than it needs to be. The cream rises to the top. Today’s gamers prefer sprint.
> >
> > [Citation Needed]
>
> every shooter in the top 50 xbox live games except overwatch
If I grab the topmost nuts from a peanut jar, and find that they are all peanuts, my conclusion isn’t that peanuts naturally rise to the top among all nuts, but that peanuts are extremely common in a peanut jar.
Almost all popular shooters have sprint, because almost all shooters have sprint. This isn’t evidence that gamers prefer sprint, but that they at least tolerate sprint. If you wanted to test preference, you would have to show at the very least that sprint is more common in popular shooters than it is in shooters in general. But even there you run into a sampling issue, because if you only have, say, ten really popular shooters, and most shooters have sprint anyway, then them all having sprint could be entirely coincidental.
The reality is that preferences like these are really hard to get information on, which is why any claim about the popularity of sprint one way or the other is usually meaningless. The reality is probably that individual mechanics almost never make or break games. It’s something neither sprint fans nor its opponents want to hear, but sprint alone is probably almost entirely inconsequential to the success of Halo.
> 2533274794648158;4857:
> > 2535418979567138;4854:
> > I’ve never heard anyone say they would not play a game because it has no sprint
>
> I’ve seen people say it on this very forum, but I’ll never believe them.
Yeah, that’s either exaggeration or a minority number. Personally I haven’t seen that, doesn’t mean that it’s never happened but that is by no means a market moving force.
> 2533274825830455;4858:
> > 2533274825782531;4853:
> > > 2533274801176260;4852:
> > > > 2533274825044752;4851:
> > > > All these people biased against sprint keep making this issue way more complicated than it needs to be. The cream rises to the top. Today’s gamers prefer sprint.
> > >
> > > [Citation Needed]
> >
> > every shooter in the top 50 xbox live games except overwatch
>
> If I grab the topmost nuts from a peanut jar, and find that they are all peanuts, my conclusion isn’t that peanuts naturally rise to the top among all nuts, but that peanuts are extremely common in a peanut jar.
>
> Almost all popular shooters have sprint, because almost all shooters have sprint. This isn’t evidence that gamers prefer sprint, but that they at least tolerate sprint. If you wanted to test preference, you would have to show at the very least that sprint is more common in popular shooters than it is in shooters in general. But even there you run into a sampling issue, because if you only have, say, ten really popular shooters, and most shooters have sprint anyway, then them all having sprint could be entirely coincidental.
>
> The reality is that preferences like these are really hard to get information on, which is why any claim about the popularity of sprint one way or the other is usually meaningless. The reality is probably that individual mechanics almost never make or break games. It’s something neither sprint fans nor its opponents want to hear, but sprint alone is probably almost entirely inconsequential to the success of Halo.
Don’t know how much of this was directed at my comments, but I’ve never claimed there’s statistical data that settles the debate one way or the other. Not even sure there needs to be. Devs/pubs most of the time will base their decisions on what moves units. The consensus seems to be sprint in shooters is generally preferred over no sprint. People that are really against sprint in Halo twist themselves into knots trying to prove that sprint is bad for Halo and demand factual, peer-reviewed, and scientifically published evidence from anyone who disagrees.
As I said earlier, correlation=/=causation, but saying “You can’t prove gamers prefer sprint” while positing the ten most popular shooters having sprint is coincidental, or gamers are just tolerating sprint. Bro, come on.
I do agree sprint alone isn’t going to make or break Halo. I, too, was arguing against that point earlier, so I definitely agree with you there.