The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> 2533274795123910;4789:
> > 2533274919593162;4780:
> > That’s a good point. But i can say For sure that Halo infinite is gonna be the halo for 10 years.
>
> You base that trust on a ten year promise on a developer which have shown 8 minutes of gameplay and some information on Skins
> Destiny 1 was said to last ten years, that didn’t happen.
> Anthem was promised to be a ten year product, was that game even on anyone’s “good radar” a month after release?
>
> i343 botched up five years of development so bad, that less than a half year before its launch as a console launch title, the game got delayed. Five years.
> I seriously doubt i343 even have five years ahead planned, even less a constructed management plan to get all that “stuff” done in the time-frame it is planned.
>
> Just as with your statement that sprint won’t leave, but the same thing have been said about other mechanics and features that have been removed, a ten year support is as baseless as it gets.

True, even though I got a small correction about Destiny (even though imho it doesn’t impact the discussion much and you will soon understand why): D1 never was meant to last ten years. The “10 years road” planned contract Bungie had with Activision was about the series as a whole, which included three main entries and I believe two DLC minimum after every release. So yes, there was a ten years plan, but there it was never meant to be solely the OG Destiny alone. And we all saw how that ended!

Let’s also keep in mind that Destiny was economically speaking successful and yet the publisher still decided to focus solely on CoD and dropped the contract. Apparently the revenue wasn’t as high as hopped, although the dev was more than happy about the results and so were their investors - which you would think is the important part, but not for Activision and their partners it seems.

That’s telling imho! In hindsight of those Destiny events I’ve even less faith in this Halo Infinite MCC style 10-years-plan, and that comes from someone that really does enjoy MCC a lot after all those PC updates! Graphics, art-style, generic looking gameplay, lackluster AI in the reveal… I really don’t know how they can resolve such a mess and than keep it going over the years. It ain’t impossible of course! No Man’s Sky and Fortnight are both living proof of that, but it’s hard and fails more often than not. Like you already counted as an example, just look at Anthem.

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> 2533274919593162;4741:
> Sprint simply adds more control over your players movement speed

No it doesn’t. It takes away control over your players movement speed, by locking you out of speeds between max BMS and sprint speed while at the same time making the handling more cumbersome by requiring one additional button.
And that’s not even counting the directional restrictions introduced by sprint, i.e. you can only move forwards at max speed, not sideways, turn radius is increased, etc.

> 2533274919593162;4741:
> it’s not detrimental.

On the one hand it slows you down in order to be able to actually shoot in a First Person Shooter. You know, the thing that the genre is literally named after.
On the other hand if you want to move at the speed that the maps are actually designed for, it completely takes away your ability to shoot. In a First Person Shooter.
Sounds pretty detrimental to me.

> 2533274919593162;4741:
> keyboard mouse is by all means not more inferior to a controller. LOL.

You literally just said yourself that KBM players only have four buttons (i.e. eight directions) and no way of selecting amplitude.
Compare that to the Xbox Joysticks that have an axis precision of 0.005% relative to the max stick displacement.
Meaning the Xbox Joystick is literally able to distinguish 100,000 different movement speeds and 400,000 different directions (maybe more if you don’t displace the stick all the way, I would need to check all possible arctan results).
EDIT: Also, for the record, I made it abundantly clear that my comment was meant as sarcasm by ending it with “/s”

> 2533274919593162;4741:
> How do you accept the fact that people won’t use more than the fastest movement speed and then say that because keyboard mouse players can’t utilize a joystick to manipulate the speed of their character it’s inferior.

You are obviously a stranger to irony.
Keyboard is inferior to a joystick the same way a joystick is inferior to the mouse. That’s a fact.
However, that is completely irrelevant for movement speed, because no player is ever voluntaritly moving at a suboptimal speed. I pointed this out myself to show that your “but sprint gives you more speed options” is nonsense, because no player is ever going to choose not sprinting when they want to get (away from) somewhere fast.
Just for the record: Keyboard is still inferior to a joystick when it comes to directional precision. WASD has a laughable eight possible movement directions compared to 400+k.

> 2533274919593162;4741:
> the statement that PC players are less excepting of the sprint mechanic is simply ridiculous.

But true nontheless.

> 2533274919593162;4741:
> Regardless of whether the maps are stretched it doesn’t change the fact that the BMS in H5 is faster therefore allowing you to place yourself further from cover then you would if you were playing H3.

Actually it does, because stretching the maps also stretches the spaces between covers.

> 2533274919593162;4741:
> There’s a reason people don’t utilize all speeds in a joystick as often as they do with a dedicated sprint button.

Because games with a sprint button gimp the players movement, so they have to sprint in order to move at the optimal speed. In games without sprint all they have to do is push the stick all the way forward.

> 2533274919593162;4741:
> BtW you can throw grenades while sprinting…

I haven’t played H5G in over four years, but I don’t recall this being true. I’ll wait for someone else to debunk or verify this claim.
EDIT: Having read up on the thread I saw that you are referring to glitches, which don’t count.

> 2533274919593162;4741:
> The whole not being able to shoot while sprinting is a good thing. It tempers the pace of the game.

No it isn’t and no it doesn’t.

> 2533274919593162;4741:
> Bottom line people who hate sprint just don’t get that speed of a game is not why people like sprint.

Then what is? Because speed was literally your main argument for the last five pages or so.

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I don’t see Infinite having classic gameplay.

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> > 2533274919593162;4785:
> > > 2535458188883243;4782:
> > > > The only hope sprint haters have is a spin off.
> > >
> > > And that spin off will garner wildly better results lol.
> > >
> > > You call us sprint haters when we pull completely valid reasons for it’s removal while you offer slim excuses to keep it.
> > > Why does Halo need sprint, why has every Halo game with sprint been less popular than those without? why does the competitive community always disable or nerf sprint? Why does Halo need to mimic every other shooter? Why can’t Halo be like Doom and return to it’s roots?
> > > answer these questions and provide an actual defense for the mechanic, stop attacking player skill or dancing around the subject.
> > > Lastly, why defend a mechanic that brings more harm than good? you can clearly see that it has more negatives than positives so why bother?
> >
> > Personally I think Halos lack of sales has several issues that don’t necessarily have anything to do with sprint.
> > 1. I think they did a poor job with the semi pro scene and tourneys.
> > 2. They did a poor job with the release of the game.
> > 3. They did a poor job with the development of the game (bugs, etc…).
> > 4. The time it came out.
> > 5. They changed too much too fast.
> > 6. The community is very stubborn.
>
> Those may explain sales, but what of my other questions

Well i don’t really care to debate sprint. I only answered tsassi because his replies are fun.I’m not gonna go through all your points.

I’m just gonna say that the case against it is just as weak as the so called case for it. Because Sprint isn’t “Bad”. it’s different. You have the right to not like it, and sprint lovers have the right to love it.

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> 2533274807993125;4804:
> I don’t see Infinite having classic gameplay.

it doesn’t.

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> 2533274801176260;4803:
> > 2533274919593162;4741:
> > Sprint simply adds more control over your players movement speed
>
> No it doesn’t. It takes away control over your players movement speed, by locking you out of speeds between max BMS and sprint speed while at the same time making the handling more cumbersome by requiring one additional button.
> And that’s not even counting the directional restrictions introduced by sprint, i.e. you can only move forwards at max speed, not sideways, turn radius is increased, etc.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4741:
> > it’s not detrimental.
>
> On the one hand it slows you down in order to be able to actually shoot in a First Person Shooter. You know, the thing that the genre is literally named after.
> On the other hand if you want to move at the speed that the maps are actually designed for, it completely takes away your ability to shoot. In a First Person Shooter.
> Sounds pretty detrimental to me.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4741:
> > keyboard mouse is by all means not more inferior to a controller. LOL.
>
> You literally just said yourself that KBM players only have four buttons (i.e. eight directions) and no way of selecting amplitude.
> Compare that to the Xbox Joysticks that have an axis precision of 0.005% relative to the max stick displacement.
> Meaning the Xbox Joystick is literally able to distinguish 100,000 different movement speeds and 400,000 different directions (maybe more if you don’t displace the stick all the way, I would need to check all possible arctan results).
> EDIT: Also, for the record, I made it abundantly clear that my comment was meant as sarcasm by ending it with “/s”
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4741:
> > How do you accept the fact that people won’t use more than the fastest movement speed and then say that because keyboard mouse players can’t utilize a joystick to manipulate the speed of their character it’s inferior.
>
> You are obviously a stranger to irony.
> Keyboard is inferior to a joystick the same way a joystick is inferior to the mouse. That’s a fact.
> However, that is completely irrelevant for movement speed, because no player is ever voluntaritly moving at a suboptimal speed. I pointed this out myself to show that your “but sprint gives you more speed options” is nonsense, because no player is ever going to choose not sprinting when they want to get (away from) somewhere fast.
> Just for the record: Keyboard is still inferior to a joystick when it comes to directional precision. WASD has a laughable eight possible movement directions compared to 400+k.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4741:
> > the statement that PC players are less excepting of the sprint mechanic is simply ridiculous.
>
> But true nontheless.

> No it doesn’t. It takes away control over your players movement speed, by locking you out of speeds between max BMS and sprint speed while at the same time making the handling more cumbersome by requiring one additional button.
> And that’s not even counting the directional restrictions introduced by sprint, i.e. you can only move forwards at max speed, not sideways, turn radius is increased, etc.

I don’t understand how this escapes you. So i’ll break it down for you.

  1. Because it’s hard to control speed with a joystick the same way it’s hard to control small movements when aiming with the right joystick people opt to either crouch if they wanna move slower or walk.
  2. So in practice you have people in classic halo moving on avg max 2 speeds.
  3. So when you introduce a third separate button to allow for a third speed you get an avg variation of 3 speeds.
    Which gives you more control over the speed you want to move depending on the situation.
    This increases when you add thrust and slide.
    Just because without sprint you have the ability to use speed variations between 0-100 doesn’t mean it’s gonna translate to more usable or useful variation in speeds.

> No it isn’t and no it doesn’t.

This is an opinion not a case against my claims.

> 2533274801176260;4741:
> Then what is? Because speed was literally your main argument for the last five pages or so.

My case is not for or against sprint my case is that no sprint isn’t better than having sprint. Plus I stated that it gives more speed control and there for more variation in speed which brings more entropy and randomness.

> 2533274801176260;4741:
> Actually it does, because stretching the maps also stretches the spaces between covers.

which is irrelevant because you can move faster its all balanced. You can’t use a balanced concept as a reason it’s bad. The results of the interaction doesn’t change on avg.

> 2533274801176260;4741:
> Because games with a sprint button gimp the players movement, so they have to sprint in order to move at the optimal speed. In games without sprint all they have to do is push the stick all the way forward.

Again moot. this only applies to moving long distances not all situations. If a player is at a doorway or corner sprint still adds movement options.

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> 2533274919593162;4807:
> 1. Because it’s hard to control speed with a joystick the same way it’s hard to control small movements when aiming with the right joystick people opt to either crouch if they wanna move slower or walk.
> 2. So in practice you have people in classic halo moving on avg max 2 speeds.
> 3. So when you introduce a third separate button to allow for a third speed you get an avg variation of 3 speeds.
> Which gives you more control over the speed you want to move depending on the situation.

Here’s a hypothetical: Suppose the base movement speed was equal to Halo 5 sprint speed, and sprint was replaced with a button that slows you to the equivalent of Halo 5 base movement speed. This offers three easily accessible movement speeds. Is it better than classic movement? Is it worse than sprint? Does such a system completely address the randomness issue you have? If not, why not?

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> 2533274807993125;4804:
> I don’t see Infinite having classic gameplay.

Yeah, it’s not like we already saw the gameplay that pretty much confirmed sprint, something similar to slide, climb and at least one armor ability with the grappling hook. Long story short, you’re seeing right!

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> 2533274825830455;4808:
> > 2533274919593162;4807:
> > 1. Because it’s hard to control speed with a joystick the same way it’s hard to control small movements when aiming with the right joystick people opt to either crouch if they wanna move slower or walk.
> > 2. So in practice you have people in classic halo moving on avg max 2 speeds.
> > 3. So when you introduce a third separate button to allow for a third speed you get an avg variation of 3 speeds.
> > Which gives you more control over the speed you want to move depending on the situation.
>
> Here’s a hypothetical: Suppose the base movement speed was equal to Halo 5 sprint speed, and sprint was replaced with a button that slows you to the equivalent of Halo 5 base movement speed. This offers three easily accessible movement speeds. Is it better than classic movement? Is it worse than sprint? Does such a system completely address the randomness issue you have? If not, why not?

I like that idea. Sounds interesting. I think it might accomplish the same thing. It would definitely be unique. I might like it.
Honestly Idk if it’s better. But it still is interesting. It’s different. I would assume this button would take you off the radar the same way crouch would in classic halo.
I wonder how others feel about it.
I would like your reply twice if it was possible. LOL

4811

> 2533274919593162;4807:
> 1. Because it’s hard to control speed with a joystick the same way it’s hard to control small movements when aiming with the right joystick people opt to either crouch if they wanna move slower or walk.
> 2. So in practice you have people in classic halo moving on avg max 2 speeds.
> 3. So when you introduce a third separate button to allow for a third speed you get an avg variation of 3 speeds.

Has nothing to do with sprint, as it doesn’t address the mechanics of the ability, only the controls.
If that is all you want, just make the button a toggle that switches the maximum speed that is accessible by the stick from 100% to, say, 75% and keep all the rest identical. Strafe, shooting, etc. Discrete control over movement speed without sacrificing gunplay. Completely fulfills all your requirements while at the same time getting rid of the drawbacks.

> 2533274919593162;4807:
> Which gives you more control over the speed you want to move depending on the situation.

False. You still cannot access the speeds between Max BMS and sprint speed. Ergo, you have less control than before.

> 2533274919593162;4807:
> This increases when you add thrust and slide.

Irrelevant to the topic.

> 2533274919593162;4807:
> Just because without sprint you have the ability to use speed variations between 0-100 doesn’t mean it’s gonna translate to more usable or useful variation in speeds.

Yes, it does. Having rudimentary access to those speeds, even through a “suboptimal” method (which is your claim, not mine) is still more usable than having no access.

> 2533274919593162;4807:
> This is an opinion not a case against my claims.

Your “claims” have already been disproved several times before and it was you who responded with an opinion, so I answered appropriately. Quid pro quo.

> 2533274919593162;4807:
> My case is not for or against sprint my case is that no sprint isn’t better than having sprint.

That is pretty hard to believe, given that you (unsuccessfully) have constantly tried to prove that sprint adds more speed variation which supposedly is better for the game. (The latter of which you haven’t even begun to prove.)
See below.

> 2533274919593162;4807:
> Plus I stated that it gives more speed control and there for more variation in speed which brings more entropy and randomness.

It doesn’t and it doesn’t.
You have less control over movement speed and directionality and the randomness is not affected because it is determined by the max speed, as tsassi has already shown, not by how this speed is achieved. You have the same randomness in a game that has no sprint and BMS at 10m/s as you do in a game that has sprint speed at 10m/s.

> 2533274919593162;4807:
> which is irrelevant because you can move faster its all balanced.

This statement is wrong on two accounts.

So, first of all you tried a bait-and-switch, by changing the topic of discussion. The initial statement was:
“Regardless of whether the maps are stretched it doesn’t change the fact that the BMS in H5 is faster therefore allowing you to place yourself further from cover then you would if you were playing H3.”
It doesn’t. The maps are scaled to sprint speed, not to BMS. You need more time to get away from / into cover using BMS (which was the initial topic before you changed it) in H5G than in Halo 3.

Secondly, it is not balanced. Not in the slightest.
Sprint gives an inherent advantage to players that aren’t fighting. Fighting players need to sacrifice gun superiority for movement superiority or risk loosing a kill. You know, the things that determine who wins the game.

> 2533274919593162;4807:
> You can’t use a balanced concept as a reason it’s bad.

It’s not balanced and even if it were, I could.
Since the example with the game arbitrarily stopping the weapons obviously went over your head, here is another analogy:
Every five Minutes, a one-second-only button prompt appears on screen. Whoever manages to input the button quickly enough wins the game, regardless of current kill count. If no player manages, the game continues normally
It obviously is balanced, because all players have access to it, but it’s still -Yoink- for gameplay because it goes contrary to what the rest of the game is actually about.

> 2533274919593162;4807:
> Again moot. this only applies to moving long distances not all situations. If a player is at a doorway or corner sprint still adds movement options.

No, it doesn’t. It takes them away. It doesn’t matter where the player is standing, having restricted movement control (both in terms of speed and direction) gives you less options than having full control.

> 2533274919593162;4810:
> It’s different. I would assume this button would take you off the radar the same way crouch would in classic halo.

Why should it? Isn’t the “added randomness” of having two distinct movement speeds advantage enough?

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> >
>
>
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> > 2533274919593162;4807:
> >
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4807:
> > This is an opinion not a case against my claims.
>
> Your “claims” have already been disproved several times before and it was you who responded with an opinion, so I answered appropriately. Quid pro quo.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4807:
> > My case is not for or against sprint my case is that no sprint isn’t better than having sprint.
>
> That is pretty hard to believe, given that you (unsuccessfully) have constantly tried to prove that sprint adds more speed variation which supposedly is better for the game. (The latter of which you haven’t even begun to prove.)
> See below.
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4807:
> > Plus I stated that it gives more speed control and there for more variation in speed which brings more entropy and randomness.
>
> It doesn’t and it doesn’t.
> You have less control over movement speed and directionality and the randomness is not affected because it is determined by the max speed, as tsassi has already shown, not by how this speed is achieved. You have the same randomness in a game that has no sprint and BMS at 10m/s as you do in a game that has sprint speed at 10m/s.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4807:
> > which is irrelevant because you can move faster its all balanced.
>
> This statement is wrong on two accounts.
>
> So, first of all you tried a bait-and-switch, by changing the topic of discussion. The initial statement was:
> “Regardless of whether the maps are stretched it doesn’t change the fact that the BMS in H5 is faster therefore allowing you to place yourself further from cover then you would if you were playing H3.”
> It doesn’t. The maps are scaled to sprint speed, not to BMS. You need more time to get away from / into cover using BMS (which was the initial topic before you changed it) in H5G than in Halo 3.
>
> Secondly, it is not balanced. Not in the slightest.
> Sprint gives an inherent advantage to players that aren’t fighting. Fighting players need to sacrifice gun superiority for movement superiority or risk loosing a kill. You know, the things that determine who wins the game.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4807:
> > You can’t use a balanced concept as a reason it’s bad.
>
> It’s not balanced and even if it were, I could.
> Since the example with the game arbitrarily stopping the weapons obviously went over your head, here is another analogy:
> Every five Minutes, a one-second-only button prompt appears on screen. Whoever manages to input the button quickly enough wins the game, regardless of current kill count. If no player manages, the game continues normally
> It obviously is balanced, because all players have access to it, but it’s still -Yoink- for gameplay because it goes contrary to what the rest of the game is actually about.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4807:
> > Again moot. this only applies to moving long distances not all situations. If a player is at a doorway or corner sprint still adds movement options.
>
> No, it doesn’t. It takes them away. It doesn’t matter where the player is standing, having restricted movement control (both in terms of speed and direction) gives you less options than having full control.

> 2533274801176260;4811:
> Why should it? Isn’t the “added randomness” of having two distinct movement speeds advantage enough?

This comment was meant for something else.

> 2533274801176260;4811:
> Why should it? Isn’t the “added randomness” of having two distinct movement speeds advantage enough?

Again. My point has nothing to do with what’s enough. I’m only interested in what’s adds to a players ability to engage in a fight

> 2533274801176260;4811:
> Has nothing to do with sprint, as it doesn’t address the mechanics of the ability, only the controls.
> If that is all you want, just make the button a toggle that switches the maximum speed that is accessible by the stick from 100% to, say, 75% and keep all the rest identical. Strafe, shooting, etc. Discrete control over movement speed without sacrificing gunplay. Completely fulfills all your requirements while at the same time getting rid of the drawbacks.

Like I said I’m not defending sprint I’m defending the benefits an addition control for a consistent speed gives. I have nothing against having a button that just increases speed.

> 2533274801176260;4811:
> False. You still cannot access the speeds between Max BMS and sprint speed. Ergo, you have less control than before.

Control. can be viewed as two things. one the ability to do something; the ability to achieve something consistently. I’m talking about the later…
Being able to consistently achieve crouch. run and sprint. Is what i’m referring to control NOT ability to access some useless speed in-between inconsistently.

> 2533274801176260;4811:
> Yes, it does. Having rudimentary access to those speeds, even through a “suboptimal” method (which is your claim, not mine) is still more usable than having no access.

Like i said earlier and agreed upon in other posts. Consistency through streamlining available speeds is superior than having rarely used or unused options. At no point in the game will a player care to go at 99% rather than 100% of max speed. so remove that ability but allow them to go 100% only. this logic can be continued. 98 to 100 useless so remove etc…

Hell if they offered you the ability to toggle stutter step, crouch. run, and sprint at a consistent speeds vs giving you only the joysticks ability to vary your speed it would give you an advantage. The person with the streamlined functions could preform these exact movements consistently 100% without any effort.

Allowing for easy consistent access leads to higher use percentage. Which would increase randomness/ entropy of players.

In a earlier post someone claimed that it was impossible to prove that players don’t use the variation of speeds often and i beg to differ there are plenty of UX case studies proving the claim that if you make something more available with clear use cases its used more.

> 2533274801176260;4811:
> > 2533274919593162;4807:
> > Again moot. this only applies to moving long distances not all situations. If a player is at a doorway or corner sprint still adds movement options.
>
> No, it doesn’t. It takes them away. It doesn’t matter where the player is standing, having restricted movement control (both in terms of speed and direction) gives you less options than having full control.

This is funny cause I literally said covering long distances there is a disadvantage. And then you just repeat yourself
Yes. in a situation where you need to move from cover to cover it is restrictive. However in the case i mentioned it is a benefit because it gives you options to move faster or slower than anticipated.

> 2533274801176260;4811:
> It’s not balanced and even if it were, I could.
> Since the example with the game arbitrarily stopping the weapons obviously went over your head, here is another analogy:
> Every five Minutes, a one-second-only button prompt appears on screen. Whoever manages to input the button quickly enough wins the game, regardless of current kill count. If no player manages, the game continues normally
> It obviously is balanced, because all players have access to it, but it’s still -Yoink- for gameplay because it goes contrary to what the rest of the game is actually about.

I love when people try and use things like this as a reason for something to be bad. There are game types similar to this. And it works great. Hell an entire game is built on a concept similar to this. its called CS:GO have you heard of it.
You normally kill all opposing players but at anytime they can plant a bomb and end the game. Or how about neutral flag or many many other games and game types. LOL.

Because of that comment this is the last time i’m answering you. I end it here.

4813

Honestly I’ve had so many arguments with people over this. All I’m gunna say is, get rid of Spartan charge or ground pound etc I really don’t care… but if they take away aiming down the sights and sprinting then forget about it. Such a majority of this community are such boomers when new movement mechanics come to play. You all want Halo 3 mechanics but it’s not 2007 anymore! I mean come on, get over it already. If you don’t wanna sprint, don’t sprint. Simple! Is your will power that weak that you need the mechanics to not allow you to sprint?? I’m just worried that the reception of every new Halo since Halo 4 is flooded with people moaning. Wanting that Nostalgic feel to the game, shunning every single new feature, even crisper graphics.
My argument there is, get over it. It’s 2020 and if this IS a spiritual reboot then I’m all for younger players flooding the servers and stores to buy it. Anybody that plays DESTINY will know it doesn’t ruin the gameplay to add all these insane player abilities, can the AI be better? Sure, but it’s still really fun and super compelling to keep playing. Would rather that kind of experience than feeling like we’re going back to 2007 mechanics but with nice pretty big maps. Miss me with that.

Still, I’m looking forward to playing Infinite upon its release but honestly I kinda just feel like it’s going back 3 steps. We’ll see.

4814

Just want to throw in my 2 cents:

The argument that maps are expanded to accommodate sprint, and therefore, don’t get you across the map any quicker misses the point. For most players, the value of sprint isn’t quicker traversal, but having variable speeds at one’s disposal. But even this is secondary to the fact that sprint is just more satisfying to the majority of fps players.
And (this is my personal opinion) super fast base speeds with no weapon lowering isn’t much fun.

At the end of the day 343 is a business, not our friends. They’ll make the most profit by appealing to a broader consensus of what gamers want while trying to walk the fine line of retaining that Halo-feel. Nothing wrong with debating whether or not they succeed in doing so, and no doubt that is a purely subjective matter, but I think it’s easy to understand the decision to update these game mechanics for modern audiences. I myself never cared for updated movement mechanics until Halo 5 (if they get rid of ground pound and shoulder bash it would be much better).

I still dip into MCC from time to time when I need my nostalgia fix, though. Very thankful for MCC.

4815

> 2535425612442592;4813:
> Honestly I’ve had so many arguments with people over this. All I’m gunna say is, get rid of Spartan charge or ground pound etc I really don’t care… but if they take away aiming down the sights and sprinting then forget about it. Such a majority of this community are such boomers when new movement mechanics come to play. You all want Halo 3 mechanics but it’s not 2007 anymore! I mean come on, get over it already. If you don’t wanna sprint, don’t sprint. Simple! Is your will power that weak that you need the mechanics to not allow you to sprint?? I’m just worried that the reception of every new Halo since Halo 4 is flooded with people moaning. Wanting that Nostalgic feel to the game, shunning every single new feature, even crisper graphics.
> My argument there is, get over it. It’s 2020 and if this IS a spiritual reboot then I’m all for younger players flooding the servers and stores to buy it. Anybody that plays DESTINY will know it doesn’t ruin the gameplay to add all these insane player abilities, can the AI be better? Sure, but it’s still really fun and super compelling to keep playing. Would rather that kind of experience than feeling like we’re going back to 2007 mechanics but with nice pretty big maps. Miss me with that.
>
> Still, I’m looking forward to playing Infinite upon its release but honestly I kinda just feel like it’s going back 3 steps. We’ll see.

That’s because Destiny is a new franchise that was never established, so having these mechanics doesn’t impact anything.

Aside from that and to your main point, so the entire game should be made to fit the modern player audience? like every other shooter these days? and you think players will stick around to play it?

What will get newer players to play Halo over COD when COD is doing everything Halo is, but better. Better ADS, better weapons and more realistic.
What does using a classic style of gameplay have to do with boomers? CSGO and TF2 are still alive despite not catering to the short-attention span masses, Why should Halo change because modern players can’t stand to learn a new game and have to make every game the same. Saying “just don’t use sprint” shows you know nothing of what this thread is about and claiming we don’t have the willpower to not stand a new mechanic shows how little you know of this game franchise and of it’s playerbase.
If the removal of ADS and Sprint are enough for you to leave, then good riddance and have fun playing Cold War

4816

> 2535425612442592;4813:
> Honestly I’ve had so many arguments with people over this. All I’m gunna say is, get rid of Spartan charge or ground pound etc I really don’t care… but if they take away aiming down the sights and sprinting then forget about it. Such a majority of this community are such boomers when new movement mechanics come to play. You all want Halo 3 mechanics but it’s not 2007 anymore! I mean come on, get over it already. If you don’t wanna sprint, don’t sprint. Simple! Is your will power that weak that you need the mechanics to not allow you to sprint?? I’m just worried that the reception of every new Halo since Halo 4 is flooded with people moaning. Wanting that Nostalgic feel to the game, shunning every single new feature, even crisper graphics.
> My argument there is, get over it. It’s 2020 and if this IS a spiritual reboot then I’m all for younger players flooding the servers and stores to buy it. Anybody that plays DESTINY will know it doesn’t ruin the gameplay to add all these insane player abilities, can the AI be better? Sure, but it’s still really fun and super compelling to keep playing. Would rather that kind of experience than feeling like we’re going back to 2007 mechanics but with nice pretty big maps. Miss me with that.
>
> Still, I’m looking forward to playing Infinite upon its release but honestly I kinda just feel like it’s going back 3 steps. We’ll see.

> 6. To expand on point 5., removing sprint does not mean we want another Halo 3 in terms of movement. New mechanics can be implemented, as long as it doesn’t result in separation of movement and attacks. Thrust is generally friendly to the ‘guns always up’ philosophy, and many in this thread wouldn’t mind seeing its return.

Additionally, as others have said multiple times, simply not sprinting in a game built around sprint is not a viable strategy, as every design in the game, from map length to bullet magnetism, essentially requires you to sprint if victory is truly your main goal. It’s not a matter of ‘willpower’, it’s a matter of every game design choice working against people who don’t sprint.

4817

Playing some Halo 2, 4 and 5 this past weekend really cemented the opinion for me. I want smaller maps and level designs to return but I also want the movement mechanics of Sprint and Clamber to remain.

Being forced to use Clamber for every jump is no fun and platform jumping without it is extremely rewarding. But quickly mounting a ledge or pulling yourself up when you miss a jump with Clamber is a lifesaver.

As with Sprint, interior portions of maps should be designed tighter to discourage it’s use and promote ‘gun always up’ style of play. Then when it comes to large, open, outdoor areas Sprint is still extremely useful to traverse the map.

I think the best approach would be to give people options on how they traverse the map.

4818

> 2533274808548953;4817:
> Playing some Halo 2, 4 and 5 this past weekend really cemented the opinion for me. I want smaller maps and level designs to return but I also want the movement mechanics of Sprint and Clamber to remain.
>
> Being forced to use Clamber for every jump is no fun and platform jumping without it is extremely rewarding. But quickly mounting a ledge or pulling yourself up when you miss a jump with Clamber is a lifesaver.
>
> As with Sprint, interior portions of maps should be designed tighter to discourage it’s use and promote ‘gun always up’ style of play. Then when it comes to large, open, outdoor areas Sprint is still extremely useful to traverse the map.
>
> I think the best approach would be to give people options on how they traverse the map.

Why not make more jumps more solid so clamber isn’t useful, and why not just use vehicles for larger maps?

4819

> 2535458188883243;4818:
> > 2533274808548953;4817:
> > Playing some Halo 2, 4 and 5 this past weekend really cemented the opinion for me. I want smaller maps and level designs to return but I also want the movement mechanics of Sprint and Clamber to remain.
> >
> > Being forced to use Clamber for every jump is no fun and platform jumping without it is extremely rewarding. But quickly mounting a ledge or pulling yourself up when you miss a jump with Clamber is a lifesaver.
> >
> > As with Sprint, interior portions of maps should be designed tighter to discourage it’s use and promote ‘gun always up’ style of play. Then when it comes to large, open, outdoor areas Sprint is still extremely useful to traverse the map.
> >
> > I think the best approach would be to give people options on how they traverse the map.
>
> Why not make more jumps more solid so clamber isn’t useful, and why not just use vehicles for larger maps?

Because sometimes it’s quicker to use Clamber to mount a ledge rather than a slow floaty jump that makes you more of a target. And vehicles aren’t always around.

4820

> 2535425612442592;4813:
> - If you don’t wanna sprint, don’t sprint. Simple! Is your will power that weak that you need the mechanics to not allow you to sprint?? - I’m just worried that the reception of every new Halo since Halo 4 is flooded with people moaning. - even crisper graphics. - this IS a spiritual reboot then I’m all for younger players flooding the servers and stores to buy it. - Anybody that plays DESTINY will know it doesn’t ruin the gameplay to add all these insane player abilities, can the AI be better? Sure, but it’s still really fun and super compelling to keep playing. Would rather that kind of experience than feeling like we’re going back to 2007 mechanics but with nice pretty big maps. Miss me with that.

  • This argument is getting tedious… it’s just as dumb as saying "well if you want sprint in a Halo game, ust press one of the unused buttoms, stop shooting an imagine being faster… - 343 tried to shove their “modern” take down the fanbase throat two times now, the reception was, as you mentioned, not so good… that fact alone should get you thinking… - citation needed - so why not give them a somewhat unique gameplay next to the countless other “modern” shooters out there? - Destiny is Destiny, CoD is CoD and Halo should be Halo. When I want to play something like D/CoD/BF I will just play that game…
4821

> 2533274825044752;4814:
> Just want to throw in my 2 cents:
>
> The argument that maps are expanded to accommodate sprint, and therefore, don’t get you across the map any quicker misses the point. For most players, the value of sprint isn’t quicker traversal, but having variable speeds at one’s disposal. But even this is secondary to the fact that sprint is just more satisfying to the majority of fps players.
> And (this is my personal opinion) super fast base speeds with no weapon lowering isn’t much fun.
>
> At the end of the day 343 is a business, not our friends. They’ll make the most profit by appealing to a broader consensus of what gamers want while trying to walk the fine line of retaining that Halo-feel. Nothing wrong with debating whether or not they succeed in doing so, and no doubt that is a purely subjective matter, but I think it’s easy to understand the decision to update these game mechanics for modern audiences. I myself never cared for updated movement mechanics until Halo 5 (if they get rid of ground pound and shoulder bash it would be much better).
>
> I still dip into MCC from time to time when I need my nostalgia fix, though. Very thankful for MCC.

This was always my point Variable movement is the WAY TO GO. Whether its sprint or something else don’t think it matters. The only reason why some people might say Sprint might be best option is because it gives a sense of give and take for more speed, and a lot of people want more immersion and the way to do this is to simulate the RL functions of an actual person ie sprinting. But a lot of frustration would be handled with just having a button change the speed of the character whether it’s to make it faster or slower.