The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
4722

> 2533274825830455;4709:
> Regarding Slide: Sprint doesn’t give Slide. Slide is an independent mechanic that 343i decided to bind to Sprint. There is no reason why Slide couldn’t be bound to a separate button. One thing I’ve argued is that thrusting and sliding should really be two animations of the same mechanic. Functionally, they are the same mechanic. Sliding should be the on-the-ground animation while the standard Thruster Pack animation is the in-air animation. It would be straightforward to make a sprintless Halo 5 with this strategy.

I guess this is the bit I’m still trying to get my head around.

Having sprint lead into slide (and spartan charge) is a game mechanic that gives it a logical progression and a way of tempering it’s use in game.

As you say, you could easily have slide from base speed… even on a timer with the thrusters.

But overall I like the way sprint has evolved into the sandbox. By tempering sprint when being shot… you in turn temper slide (and charge) at the same time. It just works as a mechanic. It may not have been the intial plan by 343 but it seems to have settled into nicely into it’s niche. You still have thrusters (on the timer) but if you want to sprint again you are going to need clever positioning, a bit of luck, and a lot of help from friends.

Happy to see the end of Spartan Charge though. :slight_smile:

4723

> 2585548714655118;4722:
> Happy to see the end of Spartan Charge though. :slight_smile:

A mechanic which was interesting and could have enjoyed an improvement / balance update, to not be a knee-jerk reaction.

Make it require charging like Splaser and Rail Gun.
Difficult to reflex-use that one.

4724

I think ‘enhanced movement’ is a must. The 1st 3 Quake games had insane possibilities (circle jumping, plasma scaling, B2R, half beat strafe jumping,…) and an even crazier skill ceiling to master these.

Look up some Quake Defrag movies. It is insane!

Putting this enhanced movement stuff (dash, double jump, grappling hook,…) on simple inputs, enables the core gameplay to be built around these abilities. There are some games that show how enriching these are if properly implemented. I find it very hard to go back after you played a bit with these.

Examples:

  • Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016 - Sekiro vs Dark Souls (or Bloodborne)
4725

> 2585548714655118;4722:
> I guess this is the bit I’m still trying to get my head around.
>
> Having sprint lead into slide (and spartan charge) is a game mechanic that gives it a logical progression and a way of tempering it’s use in game.

It’s a very intuitive progression, which is desirable when you’re trying connect disparate gameplay mechanics conceptually. I don’t deny that. And if you have no problem with Sprint, of course you’re not going to have a problem with that. But if Sone has a problem with Sprint, like many of us do, then separating Slide from Sprint is something we need to consider.

I’m just trying to demonstrate that Sprint isn’t necessary for having Slide, because apparently that’s something people believe. And frankly I don’t think connecting Slide to Thruster Pack is conceptually any weaker than connecting it to Sprint.

4726

> 2533274919593162;4706:
> Sprinting prevents regeneration so you can sprint away from combat but you have to chose when is it necessary to sprint away and it’s not.

Doesn’t H5G have desprint, i.e. you will not be able to start sprinting while getting shot at?
If you cannot do it in the first place, then it’s not a choice. The game literally forces you to use BMS.

> 2533274919593162;4706:
> Sometimes it’s better to walk walk behind cover and let your shields regen or jump to higher ground and back down instead of sprinting. You are over simplifying the game.

None of this has any relation to the sprint mechanic in the first place.
“Sometimes it’s better to [crouch] behind cover and let your shields regen or jump to higher ground and back down instead of [moving]. You are over simplifying the game.”
Still valid in classic Halo.

> 2533274919593162;4706:
> shooting while moving this is not removed in newer titles it’s still available. when two people are engaged in a fight they are moving and shooting at the same time.

But shooting while moving at max speed is.
The equivalent would be if classic Halo forced you to crouch in order to shoot. You could technically still move, but you would be significantly restricted while doing so.

> 2533274919593162;4706:
> However (and this is where the game gets more interesting) at any point one or the other can choose another option, break engagement and sprint slide thrust somewhere else whether it’s to get higher ground or escape. Either way, this unpredictability makes the game arguably more enjoyable. Can you at the very least see how that can be enjoyable?

Sure I can see that.
It’s just that - once again - this has nothing to do with sprint. You cannot sprint when in combat, so your entire argument about “breaking engagement using sprint” is moot.
The unpredictability therefore only comes from Thrust, which could still be kept in a Halo title with Run’n’Gun gameplay. Disentangle slide from sprint and you can even have that one, too.

4727

> 2533274923428997;4683:
> > 2533274919593162;4682:
> > Everyone Hates sprint for mostly one reason. It sacrifices shooting while in animation. But what if all one handed weapons could be fired while in sprint.
> >
> > Would you still hate the idea of sprint.
> >
> > So pistols, plasma rifle, SMG, etc… could be fired while in sprint. OR Make it so that all mid to low fire power weapons could be shot while in sprint except for if they were a power weapon.What do you think about this change to the sprint mechanic?
>
> Yes, because strafing and backwards movement would still be hampered. If you included something like this, why have sprint at all? Why not just have faster base movement speed or a higher fov?
>
> People don’t dislike sprint just because it throws in an unnecessary animation, it changes the weapon sandbox, vehicles, and the map design.

ok say we were to increase the base movements speed it would affect everything you claim to hate that sprint affects significantly more. So clearly speed is a problem. in order to keep everything the same as it were you would have to keep the base movement speed. Most people agree that sliding and thrust is a huge benefit to the series. So if you increased base movement speed and kept the other abilities you would have a game that’s significantly faster than H5 in terms of pace of play. Which would affect everything else so how would increasing the base movement speed to sprint speed making things better…

4728

> 2533274801176260;4726:
> Doesn’t H5G have desprint, i.e. you will not be able to start sprinting while getting shot at?
> If you cannot do it in the first place, then it’s not a choice. The game literally forces you to use BMS.

It does but there are situations where you can make it work…

> 2533274801176260;4726:
> Sure I can see that.
> It’s just that - once again - this has nothing to do with sprint. You cannot sprint when in combat, so your entire argument about “breaking engagement using sprint” is moot.
> The unpredictability therefore only comes from Thrust, which could still be kept in a Halo title with Run’n’Gun gameplay. Disentangle slide from sprint and you can even have that one, too.

it does but there are situations where you can make it work…

> 2533274801176260;4726:
> None of this has any relation to the sprint mechanic in the first place.
> “Sometimes it’s better to [crouch] behind cover and let your shields regen or jump to higher ground and back down instead of [moving]. You are over simplifying the game.”
> Still valid in classic Halo.

This a reference to sprint not increasing randomness in the game. The point is that all these options are available regardless… If you want an example of how sprint can be used.
Someone can sprint out of cover while the opponent is approaching allowing them to clear more distance.

Now i know you are gonna say something like “if you increase base movement speed this can be done” But all tho that’s true. It won’t increase the players randomness the way sprint does.

I mentioned before that having three separate buttons allowing a player to control their movement makes the movement of player more easily controllable which means that a player will not for different speeds more often leading to more randomness in a game.

> 2533274801176260;4726:
> But shooting while moving at max speed is.
> The equivalent would be if classic Halo forced you to crouch in order to shoot. You could technically still move, but you would be significantly restricted while doing so.

Sure not gonna argue that. But i’ll ask you this. if both players have to move at the same speed while in a gun fight, why does it matter?
The outcome will be the same regardless.
if you can backup behind cover you’ll get there in both situations. if you cannot again same thing.

> 2533274801176260;4726:
> Sure I can see that.
> It’s just that - once again - this has nothing to do with sprint. You cannot sprint when in combat, so your entire argument about “breaking engagement using sprint” is moot.
> The unpredictability therefore only comes from Thrust, which could still be kept in a Halo title with Run’n’Gun gameplay. Disentangle slide from sprint and you can even have that one, too.

Again not true. there are plenty of situations that where breaking engagements and sprinting to another position is the play to make…
I can’t believe i have to explain this to you but take truth for example
One persons blue street another’s red street…
one of them can pop behind the pillar at bottom P sprint thrust and kneecap to P2 and kill the other. not possible without sprint.

4729

tbh I dont care anymore about the movement im concerned about other things.

4730

> 2533274919593162;4728:
> Now i know you are gonna say something like “if you increase base movement speed this can be done” But all tho that’s true. It won’t increase the players randomness the way sprint does.

That is completely false.
Your claim is based on the assumption of there being more movement speeds available with sprint than without, when in fact the opposite is true.
In a game without sprint a player can move at any speed they choose between 0 and the BMS, by varying the stick tilt.
In a game with sprint a player can move at any speed between 0 and the BMS and at the sprint speed.
Once again, it seems that you have more options available through sprint than before, on paper, but only if you consider sprint as an additional speed on top of BMS.
When you raise BMS to sprint speed, a player has access to all the speeds that he had in said game with sprint, and additionally to all the speeds between the previous BMS and the previous sprint speed, that he couldn’t access before. Ergo, more speed options available, ergo - according to your line of thought - more randomness.

> 2533274919593162;4728:
> Sure not gonna argue that. But i’ll ask you this. if both players have to move at the same speed while in a gun fight, why does it matter?

Because the game is disempowering the player for arbitrary reasons.
If all weapons in a game would suddenly stop firing at any point when the remaining match time is divisible by 13, it would still apply to all players the same, so why should it matter, right?

> 2533274919593162;4728:
> one of them can pop behind the pillar at bottom P sprint thrust and kneecap to P2 and kill the other. not possible without sprint.

Of course it isn’t. The map is designed for sprint. If the game didn’t have sprint in the first place, the respecitve jumps would be possible without it.

> 2533274919593162;4727:
> so how would increasing the base movement speed to sprint speed making things better…

By giving the player more options. While at the same time satisfying those people that felt classic Halo was too slow.

4731

> 2533274825830455;4720:
> Given a fixed amount of time, the maximum distance from the starting point (and hence the area from which the player can be found) depends on the maximum speed at which the player can move. Hence the the set of possible locations from which the player can be found after time T only depends on the maximum speed the player can achieve. Of course if the player has a higher maximum speed in one game, they can reach further, but that I already adressed. I’m not disputing the impact of higher maximum movement speed, just the impact of sprint (i.e., the impact of the restrictions imposed by sprint in order to move at maximum speed).

In a game with simple mechanics like DOOM or H3 yes but when you have more movement options the speed someone chooses changes their final destination point given a set amount of time. Not everyone will sprint to a specific location.

So no in reality the delta of distance based and said time chosen is not dependant on max speed but the speed a player chooses.

H5 has three core movement speeds crouching, walking, sprinting. all are easily accessible. vs H3 with crouch and walking. This small differences allows for more randomness. ie better for gameplay.

Sooo in H3 a person will most of the time use the BMS because that’s basically all they have as a movement option. Which is not true in H5 with sprint.

If we strictly go off of the fact that you believe that faster movement speed is better for a game. Then by that alone H5 is a better game that previous halos.

Now addressing the “people don’t sprint till they see someone argument”. if you increased BMS to the sprint of H5 I’m arguing that people will peg their controller rather than hold it half way release and do it again which leads to less randomness. This is apparent in all sprintless games especially computer games. I’m not saying everyone sprints all the time lol. I’m saying everyone will be moving at sprint speed with a BMS set to sprint speed. LMAO.

> 2533274825830455;4720:
> But inability sprint backwards or sideways is, surely? You’re assuming I don’t know things that are common knowledge. The point is, unless you want to argue that sprint imposes no restrictions over an equally fast base movement speed (which is obviously false), then you need to defend those restrictions, not the speed.

4732

> 2533274801176260;4730:
> That is completely false.
> Your claim is based on the assumption of there being more movement speeds available with sprint than without, when in fact the opposite is true.
> In a game without sprint a player can move at any speed they choose between 0 and the BMS, by varying the stick tilt.
> In a game with sprint a player can move at any speed between 0 and the BMS and at the sprint speed.
> Once again, it seems that you have more options available through sprint than before, on paper, but only if you consider sprint as an additional speed on top of BMS.
> When you raise BMS to sprint speed, a player has access to all the speeds that he had in said game with sprint, and additionally to all the speeds between the previous BMS and the previous sprint speed, that he couldn’t access before. Ergo, more speed options available, ergo - according to your line of thought - more randomness.

Although theoretically you have the ability to access every speed possible it is in practice not utilized. Take any halo 3 game you rarely if ever see them partially peg there controller to access a specific movement speed. Which is what I explained. Which is what you ignored. Having 3 movement toggles offers easier control over your character making more people opting to use more variety in speeds. The equivalent would be to have a toggle button that speeds up your character in every direction.

> 2533274801176260;4730:
> Because the game is disempowering the player for arbitrary reasons.
> If all weapons in a game would suddenly stop firing at any point when the remaining match time is divisible by 13, it would still apply to all players the same, so why should it matter, right?

They are not arbitrary. And it’s not disempowering. you had everything you did before sprint was included. now you get an additional option. You are choosing to view it as disempowering. I’m pretty sure the BMS in H5 is higher than H3 so in every way you are empowered. If your example was put into a game mode i’m pretty sure that would be hella fun. A brawl every few min sweet! count me in!
BTW something similar has been put in a game which is very popular not sure if you know it it’s called Apex. Every couple min the map shrinks and you have to stop what you’re doing and move locations.

> 2533274801176260;4730:
> Because the map is designed for sprint. If the game didn’t have sprint in the first place, the respecitve jumps would be possible without it.

They didn’t design kneecapping into the game… And about your respective jumps this is something that would be predictable. I know that there’s a jump specifically made for people to use and it will take this amount of time to do it. Not the same by any means.

> 2533274801176260;4730:
> By giving the player more options. While at the same time satisfying those people that felt classic Halo was too slow.

No no no. Especially not true with Infinite. A huge player base will be on PC how would mouse and keyboard players simulate gradual key press. I’ll tell you. It’s impossible!
You will rarely lightly peg your left stick to access the varied speeds.

Listen the whole point of sprint is to simulate an action. Not to increase speed. Speed is just the byproduct of the action. It also serves as a way to temper other actions like slide etc…

You just can’t replace it with increase BMS. No matter how illogical you wanna be about it.

4733

> 2533274919593162;4731:
> In a game with simple mechanics like DOOM or H3 yes but when you have more movement options the speed someone chooses changes their final destination point given a set amount of time.

Well, duh. So does the path they choose. However, that is not relevant to the discussion about the potential for unpredictable movement, because the potential only depends on the set of points that are reachable within a given amount of time; that is, the area the player can reach. The larger the area the player can reach, the more options they have to go to, and hence less predictable they can make their movement. And because that area is bounded by the set of maximum distance points, i.e., the collection of furthest points that the player can reach given the specified amount of time. And that boundary is defined by the maximum movement speed. Whether or not the player can move at a speed less than the maximum is completely irrelevant in this problem.

> 2533274919593162;4731:
> If we strictly go off of the fact that you believe that faster movement speed is better for a game. Then by that alone H5 is a better game that previous halos.

By that logic Halo 3 is a better game than Halo 5, since I also happen to believe that higher sales are better for a game. Isn’t it weird how singling out one desirable attribute as the be-all end-all of quality can lead to contradictory results? It’s almost as if a game is the sum of its parts.

> 2533274919593162;4731:
> if you increased BMS to the sprint of H5 I’m arguing that people will peg their controller rather than hold it half way release and do it again which leads to less randomness.

This is a strange hypothesis. I don’t see why it would be true. You’re going to have a tough time provting it, since it’s a claim about player psychology, which means you would have to go out to the real world and actually measure something.

But then again, I don’t really care one way or the other, because my argument has never been about how players typically move. But as I’ve said already, “Halo 5 makes it easier to move randomly” is not something I would want to be true if I were in your shoes. Then again, they’re you’re preferences, so who am I to judge.

4734

> 2533274919593162;4732:
> Take any halo 3 game you rarely if ever see them partially peg there controller to access a specific movement speed. Which is what I explained.

And what is the difference to H5G? Why would you ever use a speed that isn’t the max speed when you want to get towards / away from a certain location quickly?

> 2533274919593162;4732:
> Having 3 movement toggles offers easier control over your character

Uh… no. Having all speeds mapped to a single stick is by definition easier to control that having to access the same stick and a button.
(That is also precisely the reason why classic Halo had crouch mapped to that very same stick, even though it was a toggle.)

> 2533274919593162;4732:
> They are not arbitrary. And it’s not disempowering. you had everything you did before sprint was included. now you get an additional option.

False.
I can no longer shoot while moving at max speed.
I can no longer throw grenades while moving at max speed.
I can no longer move at max speed in any direction other than forwards.
Those are just three things off the top of my head I no longer have since sprint was included.

> 2533274919593162;4732:
> I’m pretty sure the BMS in H5 is higher than H3 so in every way you are empowered.

And the maps are stretched to compensate, so moving at BMS is actually slower relative to the map geometry in H5G than in Halo 3.

> 2533274919593162;4732:
> A huge player base will be on PC

Correct. And PC players have been far less accepting of gimmicky movement mechanics than console gamers. The most played PC game to this day is still Counterstrike, which doesn’t have sprint. I would expect the Internet to go up in flames if Valve would ever try to add it. Dito, Team Fortress 2.

> 2533274919593162;4732:
> how would mouse and keyboard players simulate gradual key press. I’ll tell you. It’s impossible!

Not my problem if they choose to use an inferior control scheme, making them more predictable. /s
As was already said, the statement about “more speeds available” was already a farce in the first place, because nobody is ever going to use anything else than the fastest speed when going somewhere, sprint or not.

> 2533274919593162;4732:
> Listen the whole point of sprint is to simulate an action. Not to increase speed. Speed is just the byproduct of the action. It also serves as a way to temper other actions like slide etc…
>
> You just can’t replace it with increase BMS. No matter how illogical you wanna be about it.

I know.
That’s precisely the point: Having two movement speeds doesn’t make the game faster (if anything it makes it slower), it doesn’t add any more options (it rather takes them away), it just gimps the player with respect to movement when they’re fighting and with respect to combat while they’re moving. It’s a lose-lose mechanic.
I want to get rid of that action, as it’s detrimental to the game.

4735

> 2533274795123910;4723:
> > 2585548714655118;4722:
> > Happy to see the end of Spartan Charge though. :slight_smile:
>
> A mechanic which was interesting and could have enjoyed an improvement / balance update, to not be a knee-jerk reaction.
>
> Make it require charging like Splaser and Rail Gun.
> Difficult to reflex-use that one.

It was intended to solve the issue of double melee out of sprint, but it effectively became just as cheesy as arena maps never gave you enough time to see the player before they slammed into you and then followed up with some body shots.
They could have nerfed the tracking and damage significantly but the core issue remains of it being a cheesy way to get free damage out of a basic mechanic, double melee and issues like it have never existed until enhanced movement came along. The laser isn’t a good example since it’s main use is against vehicles and even then the laser is easy to use in H5 as the charge time is too quick to give move vehicles a chance to dodge or escape and the railgun was pretty skill-based in H4 but became a noob blaster in H5 due to hitscan change ( or close to ).

4736

> 2533274801176260;4689:
> > 2585548714655118;4688:
> > Halo 5 multiplayer is a thing of beauty.
>
> I disagree wholeheartedly.
> H5G was one of the, if not the, worst (functioning[!], i.e. not constantly crashing, etc.) game/s I have ever played in my life. And the gameplay mechanics played a huge part in that.
> Even completely detaching the game from prior expectations based on the Halo franchise and judging it in a vacuum: Every ability seems disjointed from the rest (except slide and spartan charge, which have been arbitrarily tied to sprint, the latter to “solve” the issue of double melee by making it a core feature) and nothing seems to mesh with anything in this game. The movement system is just a Frankenstein amalgamation of any random mechanic they could rip from other games and stuff it into one package because “moar movemuhnt”.
> And on top of that, you have the horrendous aiming that I have no idea how they broke it after it was perfectly functional in the beta.
> Even disliking their core mechanics per se, I had a lot more fun with Reach and even Halo 4, which I both played for several years with friends. H5G, on the other hand, we all dropped after finishing the achievements and never looked back.
> Halo 4 is a bad game, especially its multiplayer, but when you remove the randomness from ordnance drops and loadouts (i.e. don’t play Infinity Slayer) it’s a better multiplayer than vanilla H5G, and I will fight anyone to the death on that.

I wholeheartedly have never been more miserable than when playing H5, the whole game is just unfun.
Halo 4 and Reach may be bad, but at least you can have some fun in them, whereas H5 is bad and unfun overall.
also the UI was absolutely rage inducing because of crashing every third match due to infinite loading screen

4737

> 2533274919593162;4732:
> Although theoretically you have the ability to access every speed possible it is in practice not utilized. Take any halo 3 game you rarely if ever see them partially peg there controller to access a specific movement speed. Which is what I explained.

Isn’t this the exact same logic Celestis first said to you?

> 2533274801176260;4703:
> This is false. The inclusion of sprint doesn’t add new options for decision making. I mean, it does on paper but not in execution.
> […]Of course you could “choose” to do the opposite of the things I mentioned, e.g. move towards a power weapon at less than full speed, but you’d just shoot yourself in the foot, which is why I said the choices exist only on paper, not in execution.

If you’re denouncing what he said before about sprint’s added options being theoretical because of the existence of another mechanic (a mechanic that was created because sprint created the problem it needed to solve, mind you), how is your argument about the added bit of precision in movement being theoretical any more solid?

All he’d really have to say is that the fact both of you moving at the same speed means you’d have to rely on your weapons and the enviornment to engage/disengage effectively, which results in…more choices.

4738

> 2535458188883243;4735:
> The laser isn’t a good example since it’s main use is against vehicles and even then the laser is easy to use in H5 as the charge time is too quick to give move vehicles a chance to dodge or escape and the railgun was pretty skill-based in H4 but became a noob blaster in H5 due to hitscan change ( or close to ).

Not certain what you’re trying to say here.
Making Spartan Charge require a charge up would entirely remove the whole “reflex” aspect people dislike about it. I only mentioned Splaser and Rail Gun to illustrate the charge function.

4739

Look at any Halo map across any Halo game, particularly in relation to 4v4 gameplay. Even in asymmetrical, vertical maps with lots of routes (the most complex maps), it is beneficial to always be able to shoot. You could argue the skill in knowing when to use it, or the mechanics of chain movement, but ultimately it’s very defensive in nature and at the cost of classic style play. What we currently have forces the player to move or shoot, most movement mechanics place most value on forward movement, despite being an escape or gap closer mechanic with limited offensive use.

We could easily remove sprint and its associated mechanics, upping BMS, FOV, strafe accel and that would resolve the move or shoot problem and the mostly forward movement problem. That would be the baseline. I’m quite skeptical about grappling hook, though i’m a big proponent of what reach did with the jetpack and evade as pick-ups. Possibly we could satisfy this and thruster with something like a jump jet / a multiboost thruster, has a cooldown time and is visible to opponents via some sort of in-game cue.

The issue currently is that sprint and all its friends will never satisfy the classic crowd, yet from what I can gather momentum and movement complexity is of the most value to the 343 crowd. new DOOM did this, Quake did this, Tribes did this, Destiny did this. Halo can do this also without having to sacrifice offensive gameplay for the run n gun approach like it has, or copy the examples I gave 1:1. If it got stripped down and built back up it could satisfy both crowds, the classic side mostly doesn’t want H2 or H3 movement 1:1, just the benefits of a more robust offensive style game without the plethora of escape mechanics. If there are certain qualities that are desired why does sprint have to deliver them?

4740

This might’ve been mentioned before but for the campaign (and possibly limited time multiplayer modes) there could be a skull which removes sprinting but gives a floater jump and faster walking speed. That could be a possible alternative which I’d personally be welcome to.

4741

> 2533274801176260;4734:
> > 2533274919593162;4732:
> > Take any halo 3 game you rarely if ever see them partially peg there controller to access a specific movement speed. Which is what I explained.
>
> And what is the difference to H5G? Why would you ever use a speed that isn’t the max speed when you want to get towards / away from a certain location quickly?
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4732:
> > Having 3 movement toggles offers easier control over your character
>
> Uh… no. Having all speeds mapped to a single stick is by definition easier to control that having to access the same stick and a button.
> (That is also precisely the reason why classic Halo had crouch mapped to that very same stick, even though it was a toggle.)
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4732:
> > They are not arbitrary. And it’s not disempowering. you had everything you did before sprint was included. now you get an additional option.
>
> False.
> I can no longer shoot while moving at max speed.
> I can no longer throw grenades while moving at max speed.
> I can no longer move at max speed in any direction other than forwards.
> Those are just three things off the top of my head I no longer have since sprint was included.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4732:
> > I’m pretty sure the BMS in H5 is higher than H3 so in every way you are empowered.
>
> And the maps are stretched to compensate, so moving at BMS is actually slower relative to the map geometry in H5G than in Halo 3.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4732:
> > A huge player base will be on PC
>
> Correct. And PC players have been far less accepting of gimmicky movement mechanics than console gamers. The most played PC game to this day is still Counterstrike, which doesn’t have sprint. I would expect the Internet to go up in flames if Valve would ever try to add it. Dito, Team Fortress 2.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4732:
> > how would mouse and keyboard players simulate gradual key press. I’ll tell you. It’s impossible!
>
> Not my problem if they choose to use an inferior control scheme, making them more predictable. /s
> As was already said, the statement about “more speeds available” was already a farce in the first place, because nobody is ever going to use anything else than the fastest speed when going somewhere, sprint or not.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274919593162;4732:
> > Listen the whole point of sprint is to simulate an action. Not to increase speed. Speed is just the byproduct of the action. It also serves as a way to temper other actions like slide etc…
> >
> > You just can’t replace it with increase BMS. No matter how illogical you wanna be about it.
>
> I know.
> That’s precisely the point: Having two movement speeds doesn’t make the game faster (if anything it makes it slower), it doesn’t add any more options (it rather takes them away), it just gimps the player with respect to movement when they’re fighting and with respect to combat while they’re moving. It’s a lose-lose mechanic.
> I want to get rid of that action, as it’s detrimental to the game.

LMAO. This no sprint discussion is hilarious.
You still don’t get it. You keep saying the same thing after I mentioned sprint has nothing to do with increasing the speed of the game.
Sprint simply adds more control over your players movement speed and simulates a “real life action”. The argument that it actually doesn’t make things faster has nothing to do with why sprint is good for a game so just stop.

it’s not detrimental. it’s another mechanic you get to master. in old halo there are points where you are moving throughout a map and not shooting. Now in halo 5 that moment is replaced with sprinting. At no point is it detrimental to you as a player.

keyboard mouse is by all means not more inferior to a controller. LOL.
How do you accept the fact that people won’t use more than the fastest movement speed and then say that because keyboard mouse players can’t utilize a joystick to manipulate the speed of their character it’s inferior. We agree that any speed in between 0-100 (except for the crouch speed) is moot when sprint is not in a game

the statement that PC players are less excepting of the sprint mechanic is simply ridiculous.

Regardless of whether the maps are stretched it doesn’t change the fact that the BMS in H5 is faster therefore allowing you to place yourself further from cover then you would if you were playing H3.

Having everything mapped to a single button is not what the definition of making things easy… if mapping everything to less buttons made things easier why not just have a controller with one or two button(s) where you could just use a combination of forces to accomplish different tasks LOL. There’s a reason people don’t utilize all speeds in a joystick as often as they do with a dedicated sprint button.

BtW you can throw grenades while sprinting…
The whole not being able to shoot while sprinting is a good thing. It tempers the pace of the game.
Bottom line people who hate sprint just don’t get that speed of a game is not why people like sprint.