> 2535438636443468;4660:
> Sprint is fine in the campaign. Especially in an open-world game. But sprint in multiplayer is a disaster waiting to happen. To make maps not feel as small due to faster movement they make them bigger. This makes them add range the the guns to make them not feel short-range. Then in short range, they almost never miss a shot, so they add a bunch of kick. This results in poor accuracy in all guns. To solve this they buff the damage. This makes them add strange mechanics such as having stronger shields while sprinting or something. Which effects the map again to stop someone from escaping too easily. Which effects the guns. Which brings us full circle in a total disaster.
>
> So while I understand sprint being in the open-world campaign, I cannot support sprint being added to multiplayer.
>
> Not to mention that sprint prevents people from shooting while running, which is a big part of Halo.
So again why is sprint ok just because itâs open world when you can just up the base movement speed ? And sprint isnât gonna get the player anywhere faster anyway not to mention vehicles will be used. For example borderlands had sprint yet we all still used the vehicles to traverse
This thread is bad-to-the-bone! 234 pages and still going strong. Love reading the opinions of each side and finding equal ground on each side. I find myself agreeing with opinions on both sides at times as well.
> 2535407747275549;4662:
> > 2535438636443468;4660:
> > Sprint is fine in the campaign. Especially in an open-world game. But sprint in multiplayer is a disaster waiting to happen. To make maps not feel as small due to faster movement they make them bigger. This makes them add range the the guns to make them not feel short-range. Then in short range, they almost never miss a shot, so they add a bunch of kick. This results in poor accuracy in all guns. To solve this they buff the damage. This makes them add strange mechanics such as having stronger shields while sprinting or something. Which effects the map again to stop someone from escaping too easily. Which effects the guns. Which brings us full circle in a total disaster.
> >
> > So while I understand sprint being in the open-world campaign, I cannot support sprint being added to multiplayer.
> >
> > Not to mention that sprint prevents people from shooting while running, which is a big part of Halo.
>
> So again why is sprint ok just because itâs open world when you can just up the base movement speed ? And sprint isnât gonna get the player anywhere faster anyway not to mention vehicles will be used. For example borderlands had sprint yet we all still used the vehicles to traverse
I think that sprint gives them an excuse to make areas bigger that a vehicle cannot access.
> 2535463903139090;4665:
> Just looked back on when this post was made and jesus christ it was made in 2018 two years and 234 pages of grown men and women arguing.
Yes, the halo community is very activist when it comes to enhanced mobility.
> 2535407747275549;4662:
> > 2535438636443468;4660:
> > Sprint is fine in the campaign. Especially in an open-world game. But sprint in multiplayer is a disaster waiting to happen. To make maps not feel as small due to faster movement they make them bigger. This makes them add range the the guns to make them not feel short-range. Then in short range, they almost never miss a shot, so they add a bunch of kick. This results in poor accuracy in all guns. To solve this they buff the damage. This makes them add strange mechanics such as having stronger shields while sprinting or something. Which effects the map again to stop someone from escaping too easily. Which effects the guns. Which brings us full circle in a total disaster.
> >
> > So while I understand sprint being in the open-world campaign, I cannot support sprint being added to multiplayer.
> >
> > Not to mention that sprint prevents people from shooting while running, which is a big part of Halo.
>
> So again why is sprint ok just because itâs open world when you can just up the base movement speed ? And sprint isnât gonna get the player anywhere faster anyway not to mention vehicles will be used. For example borderlands had sprint yet we all still used the vehicles to traverse
Agreed with what RegentTitan said, game developers canât implement vehicles everywhere and if they can that would be time consuming. However, the grappleshot looks like a way to travel across the map thanks to it being a base mechanic.
> 2535406126289417;4653:
> Ill leave all the other points as we are just speculating but in regards to game evolution gameplay hasnt really evolved if at all but my reference of evolution was aimed at the monetisation and many systens around it.
>
> If 2010 bungie reach was made today as a new 2020 title one thing we can be sure of is it wouldnt be devoid of the microtransactions for customisation ect that litter the current gaming landscape.
Ah I see.
Youâll have to excuse me as I was under the impression it was about gameplay and mechanics, as there had been no mention of monetisation in anyway for the entirety of the quote chain, not even after that remark in your own post, and weâre in a thread regarding gameplay mechanics.
> 2535453408431289;4666:
> Agreed with what RegentTitan said, game developers canât implement vehicles everywhere and if they can that would be time consuming. However, the grappleshot looks like a way to travel across the map thanks to it being a base mechanic.
Most open world games are almost like HUBs.
Specific areas you travel between using vehicles or other faster than on foot modes of transportation, then jump out to do whatever it is youâre supposed to do in that smaller area.
The showcase even shoved a warthog in the playerâs face not long after the Pelican exit.
Sprint isnât needed for open world games because the massive map can be made to accomodate the lack of sprint, if there even was some sort of map design things relating to sprint in the larger sections of the map in the first place.
Even then, Iâd argue sprinting doesnât make it any more enjoyable to travel vast amount of distances by foot, than without it. Youâre doing literally nothing different other than pressing a single button and then forward.
Although, writing this got me thinking. Sprinting is in a way sort of detrimental for the visual enjoyment of the game.
Without sprint present in the game, I can atleast entertain myself by looking in different directions, admiring the scenery, watching for places of interests and so forth.
Sure I could do that by not sprinting, but then Iâm sacrificing a gameplay part for the visual department, and sprint does me no good. If I sprint, itâs eyes forward and the visuals are wasted.
> 2533274795123910;4667:
> > 2535406126289417;4653:
> > Ill leave all the other points as we are just speculating but in regards to game evolution gameplay hasnt really evolved if at all but my reference of evolution was aimed at the monetisation and many systens around it.
> >
> > If 2010 bungie reach was made today as a new 2020 title one thing we can be sure of is it wouldnt be devoid of the microtransactions for customisation ect that litter the current gaming landscape.
>
> Ah I see.
> Youâll have to excuse me as I was under the impression it was about gameplay and mechanics, as there had been no mention of monetisation in anyway for the entirety of the quote chain, not even after that remark in your own post, and weâre in a thread regarding gameplay mechanics.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535453408431289;4666:
> > Agreed with what RegentTitan said, game developers canât implement vehicles everywhere and if they can that would be time consuming. However, the grappleshot looks like a way to travel across the map thanks to it being a base mechanic.
>
> Most open world games are almost like HUBs.
> Specific areas you travel between using vehicles or other faster than on foot modes of transportation, then jump out to do whatever it is youâre supposed to do in that smaller area.
> The showcase even shoved a warthog in the playerâs face not long after the Pelican exit.
>
> Sprint isnât needed for open world games because the massive map can be made to accomodate the lack of sprint.
> Even then, Iâd argue sprinting doesnât make it any more enjoyable to travel vast amount of distances by foot, than without it. Youâre doing literally nothing different other than pressing a single button and then forward.
>
> Although, writing this got me thinking. Sprinting is in a way sort of detrimental for the visual enjoyment of the game.
> Without sprint present in the game, I can atleast entertain myself by looking in different directions, admiring the scenery, watching for places of interests and so forth.
> Sure I could do that by not sprinting, but then Iâm sacrificing a gameplay part for the visual department, and sprint does me no good. If I sprint, itâs eyes forward and the visuals are wasted.
Im pretty sure thats part of why I loved halo so much the visuals and the ability to still go somewhere without looking and rather being able to take in the scenery that is another reason why we shouldnt have sprint. It will also make gun play a whole lot faster.
> The queston could be asked if bungie had of stayed on and continued with halo whether they too would have continued down the advanced movement road they started with reach?
I canât really say, but one thing is for sure: Halo would still hold meaningful relevance if it were in Bungieâs hands. All you need to do is look at Destinyâs population numbers.
I do feel map boost and burst items for mobility such as the grappling hook are good alternatives to sprint.
I just donât like having to choose between shooting and mobility unless itâs Mongoose levels of mobility where clearly one is fast enough to merit using.
Ground Pound to me is the ability that has to go the most as what spartan with a deadeye ability with guns would choose to Marvel Hero fist the ground?
I enjoy adding clamber however, but I think being able to turn it off "(in Custom Games and Forge) would be beneficial for player creative freedom though.
There is a solution for sprint apeasing both sides: increasing the base movement speed (slightly in all directions (+10%), slightly more forwards (+12%)) and giving the max forward (to ±60° sideways movement) at top speed a slight gun swaying animation when not firing the weapon. (firing should bring the forward max speed down to the normal bms increase of 10%).
This solves the issue, as the pro sprint argument is about the feeling of sprinting, while the contra argument is about the gameplay effects. This synthesis eliminates the negative gameplay effects while adding the generaly wanted slightly faster movement and the animation that suggests sprintingt instead of walking.
similarily, crouch jump height could be increased and given a slight weapons down animation when near an edge when not firing. this creates the benefit of increased jump height and the looks of clambering, without the detrimental gameplay effect. jump height could be increased slightly (5%) too.
these solutions also remove the need for extra button presses for actions, they donât interupt gameplay and introduce the visual cues for superhuman speed and agility.
a genuine toned down thruster pack based on giving a man-canon like small push could also be implemented. on the ground it would be animated as a short dash (having the sprint animation), crouching it would be animated as a slide and in the air it would be animated as a thrust. the actual behavior would always stay the same. crouching in mid air and thrusting would create a downward thrust. zoomin and crouching would activate stabilizers.
the need for only one button in this proposal also keeps the necessary room for the equipment button.
> 2535453408431289;4666:
> > 2535463903139090;4665:
> > Just looked back on when this post was made and jesus christ it was made in 2018 two years and 234 pages of grown men and women arguing.
>
> Yes, the halo community is very activist when it comes to enhanced mobility.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535407747275549;4662:
> > > 2535438636443468;4660:
> > > Sprint is fine in the campaign. Especially in an open-world game. But sprint in multiplayer is a disaster waiting to happen. To make maps not feel as small due to faster movement they make them bigger. This makes them add range the the guns to make them not feel short-range. Then in short range, they almost never miss a shot, so they add a bunch of kick. This results in poor accuracy in all guns. To solve this they buff the damage. This makes them add strange mechanics such as having stronger shields while sprinting or something. Which effects the map again to stop someone from escaping too easily. Which effects the guns. Which brings us full circle in a total disaster.
> > >
> > > So while I understand sprint being in the open-world campaign, I cannot support sprint being added to multiplayer.
> > >
> > > Not to mention that sprint prevents people from shooting while running, which is a big part of Halo.
> >
> > So again why is sprint ok just because itâs open world when you can just up the base movement speed ? And sprint isnât gonna get the player anywhere faster anyway not to mention vehicles will be used. For example borderlands had sprint yet we all still used the vehicles to traverse
>
> Agreed with what RegentTitan said, game developers canât implement vehicles everywhere and if they can that would be time consuming. However, the grappleshot looks like a way to travel across the map thanks to it being a base mechanic.
an increased bms, teleporters, mancanons and other on map elements can do the same job just fine. large non-vehicle sections can also be designed in a fun way. take CEâs two betrails for example
Apologies if this has been posted (I did a search and scanned through a heap of posts)⊠but itâs a Shyway video from late August showing how sprint has matured from the days of Halo Reach⊠and what we can infer about sprint from the recent Infinite reveal;
Itâs not going to convert people from one side to another. But I now understand a bit better why I like sprint so much better in H5 than I did in Reach⊠and maybe why sprint is more important going forward than thrusters (which is the opposite to what I currently feel).
> 2535438636443468;4664:
> > 2535407747275549;4662:
> > > 2535438636443468;4660:
> > > Sprint is fine in the campaign. Especially in an open-world game. But sprint in multiplayer is a disaster waiting to happen. To make maps not feel as small due to faster movement they make them bigger. This makes them add range the the guns to make them not feel short-range. Then in short range, they almost never miss a shot, so they add a bunch of kick. This results in poor accuracy in all guns. To solve this they buff the damage. This makes them add strange mechanics such as having stronger shields while sprinting or something. Which effects the map again to stop someone from escaping too easily. Which effects the guns. Which brings us full circle in a total disaster.
> > >
> > > So while I understand sprint being in the open-world campaign, I cannot support sprint being added to multiplayer.
> > >
> > > Not to mention that sprint prevents people from shooting while running, which is a big part of Halo.
> >
> > So again why is sprint ok just because itâs open world when you can just up the base movement speed ? And sprint isnât gonna get the player anywhere faster anyway not to mention vehicles will be used. For example borderlands had sprint yet we all still used the vehicles to traverse
>
> I think that sprint gives them an excuse to make areas bigger that a vehicle cannot access.
This just goes back to my point of higher movement speed like doom.
> 2533274795123910;4667:
> > 2535406126289417;4653:
> > Ill leave all the other points as we are just speculating but in regards to game evolution gameplay hasnt really evolved if at all but my reference of evolution was aimed at the monetisation and many systens around it.
> >
> > If 2010 bungie reach was made today as a new 2020 title one thing we can be sure of is it wouldnt be devoid of the microtransactions for customisation ect that litter the current gaming landscape.
>
> Ah I see.
> Youâll have to excuse me as I was under the impression it was about gameplay and mechanics, as there had been no mention of monetisation in anyway for the entirety of the quote chain, not even after that remark in your own post, and weâre in a thread regarding gameplay mechanics.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535453408431289;4666:
> > Agreed with what RegentTitan said, game developers canât implement vehicles everywhere and if they can that would be time consuming. However, the grappleshot looks like a way to travel across the map thanks to it being a base mechanic.
>
> Most open world games are almost like HUBs.
> Specific areas you travel between using vehicles or other faster than on foot modes of transportation, then jump out to do whatever it is youâre supposed to do in that smaller area.
> The showcase even shoved a warthog in the playerâs face not long after the Pelican exit.
>
> Sprint isnât needed for open world games because the massive map can be made to accomodate the lack of sprint, if there even was some sort of map design things relating to sprint in the larger sections of the map in the first place.
> Even then, Iâd argue sprinting doesnât make it any more enjoyable to travel vast amount of distances by foot, than without it. Youâre doing literally nothing different other than pressing a single button and then forward.
>
> Although, writing this got me thinking. Sprinting is in a way sort of detrimental for the visual enjoyment of the game.
> Without sprint present in the game, I can atleast entertain myself by looking in different directions, admiring the scenery, watching for places of interests and so forth.
> Sure I could do that by not sprinting, but then Iâm sacrificing a gameplay part for the visual department, and sprint does me no good. If I sprint, itâs eyes forward and the visuals are wasted.
Not to mention the true enhancement of being abled to shoot and move at top speed in any direction
> 2585548714655118;4674:
> Apologies if this has been posted (I did a search and scanned through a heap of posts)⊠but itâs a Shyway video from late August showing how sprint has matured from the days of Halo Reach⊠and what we can infer about sprint from the recent Infinite reveal;
>
> Sprint is GOOD for Combat in Halo - YouTube
>
> Itâs not going to convert people from one side to another. But I now understand a bit better why I like sprint so much better in H5 than I did in Reach⊠and maybe why sprint is more important going forward than thrusters (which is the opposite to what I currently feel).
Similar to his clamber video, he ends up making a better case for a different mechanic like slide rather than making any meaningful points regarding the subject at hand. The end result being that âSprint is good because of slideâ and âIts better than it was in Reach.â This wouldnât be a problem in a video titled âWhy Slide is good for Haloâ, but in a video titled âWhy Sprint is good for Haloâ it just feels like smokescreen intentional or not.
Slide is just being held hostage by sprint and even then slide has its own set of problem namely combining a speedy maneuver with a deformed hitbox, which was also an issue with Evade in Reach. If memory serves that is the reason we got Thruster pack instead of Evade in Halo 4 in the first place, to create an evasion ability that doesnât change the hitbox.
It would have also been nice had he included any other example that wasnât âyour opponent is on the edge of a narrow doorway.â A playerâs optionâs being limited due to their choice to move through a narrow part of the map is an issue of a playerâs map knowledge and map design. Limitations on the player are not inherently a bad thing.
> 2533274794648158;4669:
> > The queston could be asked if bungie had of stayed on and continued with halo whether they too would have continued down the advanced movement road they started with reach?
>
> I canât really say, but one thing is for sure: Halo would still hold meaningful relevance if it were in Bungieâs hands. All you need to do is look at Destinyâs population numbers.
So roughy a millian player ( destinytracker) a day across the 3 platforms and made some 300mil last year alone as a first year independant studio, yeah that game is dead and an absolute flop alright.
since this topic is still thriving after two years i figured id say a few things. First Im against sprint but not against working towards a middle ground. Sprint is something I feel separates pretty cleanly bungie halo fans and 343i halo fans. The thing for me is that canonically it makes sense for halo to not have sprint since spartans can hold fast top speeds for long periods of time and always have places to be so they dont have time to walk. Something I always hear sprint fans bring up is how slow the original games would feel without it. To that I disagree. The older halo games complimented your speed with good level design and thoughtful traversal as to always keep the player suspended in that 30 seconds of thrill over and over again. not to mention going back as far as combat evolved the base movement speed for the master chief is faster than the marines sprint speed. As for modern halo yeah walking is slow and the same goes for reach to a lesser extent. what halo reach, 4, and 5 did in keeping sprint was lower the base speed as to emphasize the necessity to manage sprint to move at any sort of speed. This is a cheap trick used by a lot of games to get around bad level design or non-fluid level design. Something I dont see from 343s level design is connectivity throughout the level. Instead of there being 4 different ways to get from point A. to point B. and 4 more to get to point C. and back to A. Usually i see 2 straight foward paths that to an extent stretch from your spawn to the enemy spawn. This makes you feel like sprint and enhanced mobility are needed but its just an easy cop out to avoid investing time into what makes good level design that compliments what halo was always about. And on the topic of slowing down base movement, halo 5 is the worst offender since not only do you have sprint but dash and all of these spartan abilities. to compensate they put heavier emphasis in making players use them. and restricting those who dont. I said this months and months ago and i have seen it pop up a few many times while ive looked through the forums but the best solution to make halo FEEL and PLAY like it always had is to remove sprint and the negatives that come with it. enhanced mobility can go to, that stuff belongs in other games. Not to say however that both sides cant have their cake but more on that in a second. Halo has always been a more boots on the ground, strategic fast paced shooter and i think thats where reach and 343i really took the wrong turn for a lot of players. A lot of halo fans during the days of reach i remember still played halo 3 more competitively because reach really missed the target since bungie had started to follow what call of duty had been doing at the time. So when 343i stepped in they didnt look at the success and what made the original trilogy so popular, they instead looked at the most recent game bungie left and decided to build off of what was there and that was halo 4, suffice to say that halo 4s multiplayer was not only worse than reaches but almost entirely killed off competitive play for halo, this was the first game as well to make sprint a built in ability. Halo 5 to a lot of fans felt like a swift slap to the face and kick to the balls because when halo fans called to reduce the amount of redical change they had brought into the mix with halo 4, 343i in its always spectacular fashion doubled down and added more movement functions and although unrelated made the worst story so far. Since halo 5 launched 343i has given up with the halo audience and has started going after the bigger picture to form a new audience with the fortnite kids and whatnot. That being said I know without a doubt in my mind that 343i is going to do whatever it wants to become the next call of duty. But if it ever became an option for them to take feedback id say this. Sprint fans want speed. Classic fans want one speed setting. put the best of both worlds into one solution. Make your speed faster, closer to what bungie had done with the original trilogy, and with that, produce maps with better design to better compliment the mechanics of the movement and that make the gameplay feel smoother. get rid of enhanced mobility and let the players find more creative methods of taking out targets than having a 1-hit KO ground pound from around corners. thank you for reading this have a nice day.
> 2535407747275549;4676:
> > 2535438636443468;4664:
> > > 2535407747275549;4662:
> > > > 2535438636443468;4660:
> > > > Sprint is fine in the campaign. Especially in an open-world game. But sprint in multiplayer is a disaster waiting to happen. To make maps not feel as small due to faster movement they make them bigger. This makes them add range the the guns to make them not feel short-range. Then in short range, they almost never miss a shot, so they add a bunch of kick. This results in poor accuracy in all guns. To solve this they buff the damage. This makes them add strange mechanics such as having stronger shields while sprinting or something. Which effects the map again to stop someone from escaping too easily. Which effects the guns. Which brings us full circle in a total disaster.
> > > >
> > > > So while I understand sprint being in the open-world campaign, I cannot support sprint being added to multiplayer.
> > > >
> > > > Not to mention that sprint prevents people from shooting while running, which is a big part of Halo.
> > >
> > > So again why is sprint ok just because itâs open world when you can just up the base movement speed ? And sprint isnât gonna get the player anywhere faster anyway not to mention vehicles will be used. For example borderlands had sprint yet we all still used the vehicles to traverse
> >
> > I think that sprint gives them an excuse to make areas bigger that a vehicle cannot access.
>
> This just goes back to my point of higher movement speed like doom.
Ya know what? Youâre right. But since 343 seems not to listen to us anyways. I think that we better just get used to the idea of sprint in Halo.
