> 2533274801176260;4561:
> > 2535424388350319;4558:
> > > 2533274801176260;4557:
> > > > 2535424388350319;4555:
> > > > > 2533274801176260;4554:
> > > > > > 2535424388350319;4553:
> > > > > > H5 movement mechanics > Halo 4s…
> > > > >
> > > > > I severely disagree.
> > > > > The fact that Halo 4’s sprint was limited alone makes the movement mechanics of Halo 4 superior, because the multiplayer matches didn’t devolve into Roadrunner/Wile-E-Coyote-cartoons.
> > > > > You could delay a lost battle until your sprint ran out, but you couldn’t completely negate it the way you can do in H5G.
> > > > > Everything else is a different story, loadouts, ordnance, killcams, etc. But the movement itself got significantly worse.
> > > > > And that’s not even factoring in the atrocities that are Spartan charge, clamber, ground pound, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Limited sprint was fun but If I recall when you got shot at in halo 4 you didn’t Descope or loose aim !!!
> > >
> > > So? This has nothing to do with movement.
> >
> > Yea it does unless you run around unscoped all the time try it out.
>
> Last time I checked I scoping doesn’t make you change your position.
> Therefore it’s not a movement !
>
>
> Good point just mentioning that it does an can affect the way alot of players move.
>
> The gameplay was less predictable then in previous titles an some of H5 movement mechanics, an being descoped(classic) when shot at were key factors.
> 2535426777350592;4559:
>
DOOM 2016: exists. And it was so successful that it generated a sequel.
Classic style shooters can and do exist today. 2016’s mutluplayer never took off because it made largely the same mistakes that Halo 4 made. Loadouts and other things that didn’t appeal to the hard-core DOOM audience. Besides that, 343 is actively reviving MLG/Esports for Halo 3. And, on top of that, the MCC has more players on Xbox One than Halo 5 does.
Me thinks Halo 5 is not doing so well.
Descope is a great thing and should never be removed, Halo 4’s MP should serve as a thesis of bad game design.
> 2535426777350592;4559:
>
H5 has zero competition. The only good shooters out today are siege and Modern Warfare. Battlefield has been trash for years and PlayStation doesn’t have any exclusive shooters, just single player games. H5 is isn’t even in the top 30 and it’s been lagging behind since day 1. It makes sense why a cod clone would lose to children’s games Fortnite and Apex, but to say H2 or 3 wouldn’t fare is laughable. Also, there’s no such thing as “Classic Halo”. There’s just Halo and games that pretend to be Halo. Just play Team Slayer in Halo 5 and observe how there’s at least 2-3 players that quit out in every match or every other match. Its own playerbase admits how ridiculous the matchmaking is.
I don’t care how we move around or whether it feels classic or modern as long as thrusters are involved. No thrusters no play
> 2533274816270525;4566:
> I don’t care how we move around or whether it feels classic or modern as long as thrusters are involved. No thrusters no play
Sounds like Not a true Halo fan No play
If all you care about is a single mechanic, than the community would be better off without you as you don’t bring anything new or fun to the table since COD could add a thruster and you’d just go to it.
> 2535458188883243;4567:
> > 2533274816270525;4566:
> > I don’t care how we move around or whether it feels classic or modern as long as thrusters are involved. No thrusters no play
>
> Sounds like Not a true Halo fan No play
> If all you care about is a single mechanic, than the community would be better off without you as you don’t bring anything new or fun to the table since COD could add a thruster and you’d just go to it.
I would doubt that since i own every soft copy halo book ever released and have played every single game if anything i bring more money to 343i than you by many times over and are one of there truest fans. Therefore i want my opinion of my ideal game to count more than yours and if i dont reach out than no one else will and 343i will make a game that no one wants to play. 343i wants fan opinoins so they can make the ideal game and therefore im showing them what i as a fan want. So stick with your idealology that youll play whatever they come out with but youll never stop me from showing them that i as a true fan of halo that this is the route i wish them to take.
> 2533274816270525;4568:
> > 2535458188883243;4567:
> > > 2533274816270525;4566:
> > > I don’t care how we move around or whether it feels classic or modern as long as thrusters are involved. No thrusters no play
> >
> > Sounds like Not a true Halo fan No play
> > If all you care about is a single mechanic, than the community would be better off without you as you don’t bring anything new or fun to the table since COD could add a thruster and you’d just go to it.
>
> I would doubt that since i own every soft copy halo book ever released and have played every single game if anything i bring more money to 343i than you by many times over and are one of there truest fans. Therefore i want my opinion of my ideal game to count more than yours and if i dont reach out than no one else will and 343i will make a game that no one wants to play. 343i wants fan opinoins so they can make the ideal game and therefore im showing them what i as a fan want. So stick with your idealology that youll play whatever they come out with but youll never stop me from showing them that i as a true fan of halo that this is the route i wish them to take.
I think thrusters were the best addition to Halo since equipment. Had 343 gone with non 3rd person thrusters instead of sprint as a base ability in H4…I think Halo would still fill the niche it had, instead of getting lost as a generic shooter.
Edit: No need for Jetpack, speed boost pickup gives your thrusters the boost to fly. Get invisiblity and use your thrusters, you lose time.
I’m still of the camp that would rather see thrusters / evade as a recharging 2-use pick-up like evade. I don’t mind thrusters on-spawn, however they should have a longer recharge time, make it more impactful, sorta like flash in LoL. Stabilisers are nice too, I think a floatier Halo game is possible again if quick air control and a hard stop is available. If thruster can be used wherever the momentum is, it could provide part of what jetpack, charge, ground pound, clamber or a double jump could bring. A jump thrust would send you vertical, a falling thrust sends you straight down etc, just keep it first person, longer cooldown and a visual indicator to other players of when it’s up.
Likely though (judging by the existing footage) 343 will be boring and give us a slow game with a near useless sprint function. No raised bms, or quick strafe accel or something like the paragraph above.
If it’s being more CE focused then ample pick-ups and vertical maps would be nice. Have teleporters, overshield, invisibility, speed pads, grav lifts, double digit item-pickups on map.
> 2535424388350319;4553:
> > 2533274795123910;4539:
> > > 2535424388350319;4538:
> > > > 2535449076192416;4537:
> > > > > 2535424388350319;4536:
> > > > > > 2533274807672834;4524:
> > > > > > It should have BOTH!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 343, by all means think about it. So the rabid for and against camps can ZIP it unless constructive. Because its getting a bit out of hand.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **Campaign:**Default: grapple, slide, sprint etc
> > > > > > Skulls either combined or separate for every non " classic " armor equipment, movement ability. Could be unlocked by beating the game on Heroic or something.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **Multiplayer:**Default: NO grapple, slide, sprint etc in either Casual and Competive playlists. Only as pickup armor enhancments, akin to power weapons and power ups.
> > > > > > Specific playlists for both Competive and Social can have the above on by default
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could use some small changes to make it better. But I still stand on best of both worlds, why do we have to squabble and bicker, toxify and be “proud” to be in either camp when a logical compromise and fine tuning just makes more sense???
> > > > > > At least in my humble opinion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Great template but for the multiplayer just have options like a separate playlist halo 5 multiplayer has a nice skill gap its balanced well for competitive play being unscoped an loosing your aim when shot at keep it more realistic an immersive you sprint spartan charge evade boost slide etc. Watch some esport matches or streamers take advantage of there armor abilities an then maybe you’ll see why they shouldn’t take it out the game.
> > > >
> > > > I’m pretty sure even Esports players don’t like the Halo 5 mechanics. If I recall correctly, spartan charge and ground pound were removed from tournaments very early on, and even sprint at a later point in favor upping the base movement to sprint speed.
> > > >
> > > > Plus, there have been complaints that Halo 5 is just too complicated to watch and enjoy as casual Esports audiences can’t understand what is happening with all the fancy mechanics, compared to the older Halos’ slower, simpler, and more comprehensible gameplay. Spartan abilities were not helping Esports at all.
> > >
> > > Watch the Halo finals 2018 on YouTube. You can watch execution of all the abilities.
> >
> > So, just having listened to the Jimquisition regarding Fall Guys, I recommend listening to it, what’s the viewership on Halo 5 tournaments been from year to year?
> >
> > Because it was mentioned on the Jimquisition that simple mechanics are easier to follow as a viewer, meaning outsiders are far more likely to understand what’s going on, and be more interested in continuing to watch.
>
> H5 movement mechanics > Halo 4s…
Ehh while halo 5 was niche I still prefer at the core Halo 4s gameplay. Problem was bo2 released at the same time and it was way better because it had ranked core gameolay etc vs ordicancedropslol and no ranked.
Classic Halo is about engagement over retreat, about shot skill mattering. It’s an FPS with a chess like mentality. (And yeah, chess on Twitch has many more viewers than Halo ATM.)
I said chess and some of you think, who wants that? That’s what made Halo different. It wasn’t a Call of Duty clone back in the day when both games were really popular. It had its own unique style. It made you want to get into the octagon and practice your shot because you couldn’t just sprint away from an encounter.
Classic fans are trying to help 343. Halo will not survive as a top title if modern movement mechanics are kept.
> 2533274825830455;4549:
> > 2533274825726490;4548:
> > > 2533274825830455;4546:
> > > > 2535458188883243;4544:
> > > > Jetpack IS universally hated by anyone who takes the game seriously
> > >
> > > Is this so that you can establish a true Scotsman situation, where you disregard anyone who doesn’t hate Jetpack as “not taking the game seriously”, so that you can keep believing your statement?
> > >
> > > Jetpack as a base ability is problematic, but as a map pick-up it is interesting. And I have reason to believe that this view is shared among many who disliked Reach. “Armor abilities would’ve been fine as map pick-ups” is a pretty common sentiment. I believe the only armor ability almost everyone would dismiss completely is Armor Lock.
> >
> > Ehh not every Reach legend thought jetpack was good as pick up. It still broke maps, and single digit onyx was a nightmare when it was in arena. More people hated al and bloom though hands down. Likewise the only reason bloom was hated was because spamming outbeat pacing so then it became a crouchfest of who could spam better adding a layer of randomness to gunfights. 85 percent was a godsend back in the day.
>
> Which is why I didn’t say “everybody”. All I know that a sizeable portion of the critics of armor abilities thought that making them pick-ups would’ve sufficed, albeit probably with some omissions. But it’s not like I’ve ran a poll on it.
You’re probably not wrong although it would have been good to run back then. Tons of classic Halo fans gave up after mcc launch failed, they gone.
keep sprint and thrusters.
> 2533274899826363;4574:
> keep sprint and thrusters.
Why? they don’t help Halo and sprint only hurts it.
> 2535458188883243;4575:
> > 2533274899826363;4574:
> > keep sprint and thrusters.
>
> Why? they don’t help Halo and sprint only hurts it.
I don’t mind thrusters as much as i mind sprint. Sprint has got to go.
> 2535458188883243;4564:
> Descope is a great thing and should never be removed, Halo 4’s MP should serve as a thesis of bad game design.
Why? I honestly never understood why people disliked the removal of descope?
> 2533274825726490;4577:
> > 2535458188883243;4564:
> > Descope is a great thing and should never be removed, Halo 4’s MP should serve as a thesis of bad game design.
>
> Why? I honestly never understood why people disliked the removal of descope?
It’s a fundamental core of Halo’s design…
> 2533274825726490;4577:
> > 2535458188883243;4564:
> > Descope is a great thing and should never be removed, Halo 4’s MP should serve as a thesis of bad game design.
>
> Why? I honestly never understood why people disliked the removal of descope?
The reason why the removal of descoping was disliked is it effectively made med-long range weapons with zoom even stronger, as it’s easier to deal with flinch then it is to lose your zoom.
In Halo the purpose of descoping is to ensure that these weapons don’t completely dominate most gunfights. When you’re being hit while using the sniper you have to decide to take a shot without using the zoom or try to back off. In my experience flinch didn’t deter this and it didn’t feel like it did anything in close quarters engagements.
> 2535449076192416;1:
> INTIAL POST: In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
>
> THREAD GUIDELINE: Considering the size of this thread, I strongly urge future commenters to not simply state which side of the debate you’ve chosen. You add nothing to this already large discussion if you merely exclaim, “No, don’t remove sprint!” or “Sprint ruined Halo, it needs to go.” Explain why you feel Halo has become better or worse with the new mechanics, and provide reasons to support your argument. Thank you.
>
> **A few points that have already been thoroughly discussed, in favor of the removal of sprint, as said by commenters in this thread:**1. Just because sprint is not present does not mean the game is going to be slow. There are many ways to give the player a feeling of speed without the inclusion of sprint, such as higher field of view, smaller maps, or just an increase in the base movement speed.
> In terms of BTB-sized maps, the designers could be encouraged to implement more creative ways to traverse the map on foot, like the previously used teleporters, man-cannons, speed boosts, and vehicles, making each map far more unique than if they were all wide-open plains you simply run across to reach your destination. Sprint is arguably the laziest and least entertaining form of map traversal.
>
> 2. You can’t just split the game in half, with one ‘modern’ side that has enhanced mobility and a ‘classic’ side that does not. The difference between the two are far too large to reuse any assets; there would have to be separate maps, extensively tweaked weapons and enemies, and much more. The massive differences essentially create two games in one, and 343 would not be able to support either side enough to satisfy both.
> That being said, you also can’t create a game around Spartan Abilities and then provide a little playlist that just doesn’t have them. The balancing of the game around the enhanced movement will not flow smoothly if they just removed the abilities, when explosion radii are balanced around players thrusting out of the way, and tracking weapons to more strongly track to counter constant movement.
>
> 3. Sprint isn’t required to make an FPS in this day and age successful. Common examples of popular games without sprint include DOOM, Counterstrike, and Overwatch.
> However, providing a list of modern games without sprint should not be necessary, because Halo shouldn’t be trying to copy everyone else to begin with. There is clearly a lack of innovation in the game industry when a developer can only implement a unique mechanic if enough other games in the market have already attempted it and succeeded. That is commonly called ‘chasing trends’, which we should be mostly avoiding.
>
> 4. “Go play MCC if you want classic movement” is an invalid argument, because those in favor of its return could just as easily tell their opponents to go play Halo 5 if they want advanced movement.
>
> 5. The removal of sprint does not necessarily mean the game will be “dumbed down” from its predecessors and strip options from the player. It would, in fact, add more options, since one can now attack and move at max speed in all directions at all times. Sprint forces the player to choose whether to move or to shoot, when both areas of gameplay could be easily united if sprint is removed.
>
> 6. To expand on point 5., removing sprint does not mean we want another Halo 3 in terms of movement. New mechanics can be implemented, as long as it doesn’t result in separation of movement and attacks. Thrust is generally friendly to the ‘guns always up’ philosophy, and many in this thread wouldn’t mind seeing its return.
>
> 7. Sprint does not need to be present in the game just because Spartans have sprinted in the canon and expanded universe. Spartans have also been shown to run at full speed while still being able to shoot, as seen in a repeatedly-referenced Halo Legends episode. Excusing sprint for the sake of canonical consistency could also lead to the inclusion of many other abilities that stray even further from the original gameplay formula, all for the sole purpose of ‘feeling like a Spartan’.
I love how you displayed your thoughts here as well as many of the thoughts passionate Halo fans have on this topic. I agree completely and I have sit back and watched Halo through the years become a shell of it’s former self. I would love for Halo Infinite to remove sprint once and for all and never look back, while innovating in new and creative ways.
> 2533274866906624;4580:
> > 2535449076192416;1:
> > INTIAL POST: In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> >
> > THREAD GUIDELINE: Considering the size of this thread, I strongly urge future commenters to not simply state which side of the debate you’ve chosen. You add nothing to this already large discussion if you merely exclaim, “No, don’t remove sprint!” or “Sprint ruined Halo, it needs to go.” Explain why you feel Halo has become better or worse with the new mechanics, and provide reasons to support your argument. Thank you.
> >
> > **A few points that have already been thoroughly discussed, in favor of the removal of sprint, as said by commenters in this thread:**1. Just because sprint is not present does not mean the game is going to be slow. There are many ways to give the player a feeling of speed without the inclusion of sprint, such as higher field of view, smaller maps, or just an increase in the base movement speed.
> > In terms of BTB-sized maps, the designers could be encouraged to implement more creative ways to traverse the map on foot, like the previously used teleporters, man-cannons, speed boosts, and vehicles, making each map far more unique than if they were all wide-open plains you simply run across to reach your destination. Sprint is arguably the laziest and least entertaining form of map traversal.
> >
> > 2. You can’t just split the game in half, with one ‘modern’ side that has enhanced mobility and a ‘classic’ side that does not. The difference between the two are far too large to reuse any assets; there would have to be separate maps, extensively tweaked weapons and enemies, and much more. The massive differences essentially create two games in one, and 343 would not be able to support either side enough to satisfy both.
> > That being said, you also can’t create a game around Spartan Abilities and then provide a little playlist that just doesn’t have them. The balancing of the game around the enhanced movement will not flow smoothly if they just removed the abilities, when explosion radii are balanced around players thrusting out of the way, and tracking weapons to more strongly track to counter constant movement.
> >
> > 3. Sprint isn’t required to make an FPS in this day and age successful. Common examples of popular games without sprint include DOOM, Counterstrike, and Overwatch.
> > However, providing a list of modern games without sprint should not be necessary, because Halo shouldn’t be trying to copy everyone else to begin with. There is clearly a lack of innovation in the game industry when a developer can only implement a unique mechanic if enough other games in the market have already attempted it and succeeded. That is commonly called ‘chasing trends’, which we should be mostly avoiding.
> >
> > 4. “Go play MCC if you want classic movement” is an invalid argument, because those in favor of its return could just as easily tell their opponents to go play Halo 5 if they want advanced movement.
> >
> > 5. The removal of sprint does not necessarily mean the game will be “dumbed down” from its predecessors and strip options from the player. It would, in fact, add more options, since one can now attack and move at max speed in all directions at all times. Sprint forces the player to choose whether to move or to shoot, when both areas of gameplay could be easily united if sprint is removed.
> >
> > 6. To expand on point 5., removing sprint does not mean we want another Halo 3 in terms of movement. New mechanics can be implemented, as long as it doesn’t result in separation of movement and attacks. Thrust is generally friendly to the ‘guns always up’ philosophy, and many in this thread wouldn’t mind seeing its return.
> >
> > 7. Sprint does not need to be present in the game just because Spartans have sprinted in the canon and expanded universe. Spartans have also been shown to run at full speed while still being able to shoot, as seen in a repeatedly-referenced Halo Legends episode. Excusing sprint for the sake of canonical consistency could also lead to the inclusion of many other abilities that stray even further from the original gameplay formula, all for the sole purpose of ‘feeling like a Spartan’.
>
> I love how you displayed your thoughts here as well as many of the thoughts passionate Halo fans have on this topic. I agree completely and I have sit back and watched Halo through the years become a shell of it’s former self. I would love for Halo Infinite to remove sprint once and for all and never look back, while innovating in new and creative ways.
Spot on. I agree with what both of you said.Halo used to be an innovator. Not just a part of the crowd.