The return of classic movement mechanics?

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> > > Let classic halo be classic halo, maybe spin offs could embrace the legacy more directly but let’s keep the enhanced movement.
> >
> > Doesn’t seem very enhanced.
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> Most of those antisprint propaganda Youtube clips get up to 50% as many dislikes as they do likes (Case in point)… That’s quite telling, in terms of how divisive and inconclusive they actually are.

Most of the original Halo fans have left Halo due to the great change though. Case and point the severe population decline after 343i ignored the (at the time) majority of the fan base. So with that, most of the original playerbase has left and obviously wouldn’t be watching Halo videos anymore.

Plus the dissecting of advanced mobility has been torn apart so many times I can’t fathom how people can still truly believe that it is the best for Halos gameplay.

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> > > > Let classic halo be classic halo, maybe spin offs could embrace the legacy more directly but let’s keep the enhanced movement.
> > >
> > > Doesn’t seem very enhanced.
> >
> > Most of those antisprint propaganda Youtube clips get up to 50% as many dislikes as they do likes (Case in point)… That’s quite telling, in terms of how divisive and inconclusive they actually are.
>
> Most of the original Halo fans have left Halo due to the great change though. Case and point the severe population decline after 343i ignored the (at the time) majority of the fan base. So with that, most of the original playerbase has left and obviously wouldn’t be watching Halo videos anymore.
>
> Plus the dissecting of advanced mobility has been torn apart so many times I can’t fathom how people can still truly believe that it is the best for Halos gameplay.

And before I get blasted for the last comment. I am not trying to fanboy or get people angry. I genuinely want to know how after advanced mobility has been torn apart factually and with evidence, how can people still defend it as if it is better factually excluding personal preference.

You may even change my mind.

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> > > > > > > > > As a old Halo vet, I like advanced movement and sprint and can’t imagine playing a new Halo without it. I don’t understand why everyone hates it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Chaos is why. If the abilities are all that matters to you then Minecraft should naturally give you X-Ray vision to help you get that extra ore.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Clamber is ok…
> > > > > > > > Sprint is ehh, better if it’s slowed right down.
> > > > > > > > Ground pound is wtf is this a fighting game.
> > > > > > > > Spartan Charge is no. Sumo wrestling insta-AR kill please no.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Halo isn’t Super Smash Bros or Crisis. Let it be Halo.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If it’s all these abilities that is what makes Halo good enough for you then you obviously don’t enjoy any other aspects of the game enough to satisfy playing it which means you’re sold on “what hot new ability” will make it in first person shooters next rather then the game for what it is. You may of played every Halo game and been a vet. But I doubt you have that much of an idea about what you’re talking about.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your highest CSR ever is a diamond 1.
> > > > > > > > Your rank is 75/152 3 years in.
> > > > > > > > You’ve only played 2 days of Arena and warzone 3 years in.
> > > > > > > > You have lower game time then 90% of the players I still see online.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’m pretty tired of people who self proclaim to be vets of Halo when they hardly play the game but profess their love for the way it is and believe that they know the direction it should go. I still play this game every day and I still have problems with it. If your argument has anything to offer substantially other than the fact that these abilities increase the “fun” or “immersion” you have then you’ve already lost the argument because that’s not what makes Halo great. It’s so much more than this and its depth is so misunderstood.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This post could do without the stat-flaming (which is against forum policy).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I love it when idiots resort to stat bashing when arguing for changes in Halo. It invalidates any arguments they put forth and gets them banned. Let him rant away.
> > > > >
> > > > > It doesn’t necessarily invalidate any points/opinions he gave, it just doesn’t help anything and is generally unbecoming.
> > > >
> > > > It does. He is one of the people who thinks developers should only listen to pro players aka the 1%. Developers have to take into account that the majority is a casual gamer and they want to have fun. That isn’t to say they should completely ignore the competitive player base but rather find a balance that
> > >
> > > The stat-flaming isn’t what makes that belief problematic is it? That’s what I’m saying.
> > >
> > > Argumentative points stand or fall of their own accord. Demeaning others (including stat-flaming and calling others “idiots”) doesn’t change how good or bad a point is.
> >
> > It’s totally invalidated in this instance. When the crux of their argument is intended to demean or degrade someone based on their perceived skill at Halo then it’s a baseless argument. It’s just bullying behavior, actually.
> >
> > If someone else enjoys facets of Halo that make it feel “fun,” or “immersive,” then stat flaming them to try and shame them away from the argument is flat out wrong and uncalled for; which (if unchecked) leads to the community being perceived as “toxic.”
> >
> > Stat flaming is generally considered taboo because it’s just an all-around low class and trashy way to try and debate anything with anyone in a civilized manner.
> >
> > Edit: I would not completely disagree with A6ENT C’s point about not all arguments are invalid because they come from this toxic mentality, but most of them aren’t constructive (certainly not positive); furthermore when the entire argument relies on stat-shaming someone then it’s almost undoubtedly a baseless argument.
>
> - It’s not a one-way street, of course. I read plenty of demeaning comments about “sweaty tryhards”.-Course not, nor would I imply that it was. But taking a Darwinian approach of survival of the fittest into a discussion about game mechanics by stat-flaming simply isn’t constructive or positive. - Everyone wants the game to fulfill their wishes, “self-serving” as that may be. You also think the game should adhere to what you feel is best, do you not? We are all biased towards our preferences.-Agreed, but there are civil ways to discuss these personal wishes and there are toxic ways to go about it. In a civilized debate arguments reliant upon stat-flaming others just shouldn’t be considered viable. - As unsatisfying as it is, a person not being respectful doesn’t make an opinion/argument wrong. If it did, others who shared that opinion or made that argument while being respectful would also be wrong… and we’d all be wrong at that point.-We may be discussing semantics here, but I didn’t say that being disrespectful towards another makes the argument wrong. I said that stat-flaming is not constructive or positive (particularly those arguments which are solely constructed and thereby dependent upon said stat-flaming); so they should be considered wrong by the community. There are multiple ways to be disrespectful, I mean let’s be honest it is the Internet here, but we can narrow the scope of what’s considered disrespectful in this issue down to just stat-flaming and decide that it’s a wrong way to conduct ourselves here. - TL;DR: Ultimately in this particular case, trying to say “I’m better than you so your desires for certain game mechanics doesn’t matter,” is just wrong.

Side note: I’ve played ball with this train of thought for one more reply (because hopefully this can add something of value to the discussion), but with respect to the OP to avoid derailing the thread, anything further directed to me on this particular subject should be taken to a PM convo (plz). If not that’s fine too, but I wouldn’t reply because I don’t want to go on here about something that’s slowly become off-topic. Thank you :slight_smile:

I really hope they do this; Spartan Abilities and Sprint need to go. In Halo 2 and Halo 3, you could walk faster than you can sprint in Halo 5: Guardians, AND you could fire your weapon at the same time. Enhanced mobility is a lie.

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> > > > > > > > > > As a old Halo vet, I like advanced movement and sprint and can’t imagine playing a new Halo without it. I don’t understand why everyone hates it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Chaos is why. If the abilities are all that matters to you then Minecraft should naturally give you X-Ray vision to help you get that extra ore.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Clamber is ok…
> > > > > > > > > Sprint is ehh, better if it’s slowed right down.
> > > > > > > > > Ground pound is wtf is this a fighting game.
> > > > > > > > > Spartan Charge is no. Sumo wrestling insta-AR kill please no.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Halo isn’t Super Smash Bros or Crisis. Let it be Halo.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If it’s all these abilities that is what makes Halo good enough for you then you obviously don’t enjoy any other aspects of the game enough to satisfy playing it which means you’re sold on “what hot new ability” will make it in first person shooters next rather then the game for what it is. You may of played every Halo game and been a vet. But I doubt you have that much of an idea about what you’re talking about.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your highest CSR ever is a diamond 1.
> > > > > > > > > Your rank is 75/152 3 years in.
> > > > > > > > > You’ve only played 2 days of Arena and warzone 3 years in.
> > > > > > > > > You have lower game time then 90% of the players I still see online.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I’m pretty tired of people who self proclaim to be vets of Halo when they hardly play the game but profess their love for the way it is and believe that they know the direction it should go. I still play this game every day and I still have problems with it. If your argument has anything to offer substantially other than the fact that these abilities increase the “fun” or “immersion” you have then you’ve already lost the argument because that’s not what makes Halo great. It’s so much more than this and its depth is so misunderstood.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This post could do without the stat-flaming (which is against forum policy).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I love it when idiots resort to stat bashing when arguing for changes in Halo. It invalidates any arguments they put forth and gets them banned. Let him rant away.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It doesn’t necessarily invalidate any points/opinions he gave, it just doesn’t help anything and is generally unbecoming.
> > > > >
> > > > > It does. He is one of the people who thinks developers should only listen to pro players aka the 1%. Developers have to take into account that the majority is a casual gamer and they want to have fun. That isn’t to say they should completely ignore the competitive player base but rather find a balance that
> > > >
> > > > The stat-flaming isn’t what makes that belief problematic is it? That’s what I’m saying.
> > > >
> > > > Argumentative points stand or fall of their own accord. Demeaning others (including stat-flaming and calling others “idiots”) doesn’t change how good or bad a point is.
>
> Side note: I’ve played ball with this train of thought for one more reply (because hopefully this can add something of value to the discussion), but with respect to the OP to avoid derailing the thread, anything further directed to me on this particular subject should be taken to a PM convo (plz). If not that’s fine too, but I wouldn’t reply because I don’t want to go on here about something that’s slowly become off-topic. Thank you :slight_smile:

Fair enough, but I don’t think anything more really needs to be said. We both agree that arguments based on stat-flaming and such are fallacious, but that an argument can be valid with a non-constructive/inflammatory delivery.

Back on topic (and I asked this earlier in the thread): To me, the “Sprint makes me feel faster” spiel sounds a lot like someone arguing the efficacy of homeopathic/placebo “medicine”.

I’ve been around the Sprint discussion thread and this one, but haven’t read or seen any examples of plays that are only/best achievable with Sprint (except the “tactic” of running from an opponent faster than they can pursue with their weapons drawn). Perhaps I’ve overlooked such examples?

Mind you, for one to support the claim that Sprint allows for more/better tactics than “just a BMS” it would have to meet the following criteria:

  • The restriction of non-forward movement must play a role in the tactic’s possibility and/or viability. - The restriction of weapon/grenade usage must do the same.As it stands, I cannot fathom a maneuver that would benefit from only being performable when facing the direction you want to move and relinquishing offensive options. This is also why I’m opposed to Clamber, by the way.

In my opinion, there should be some compromise with classic and H5’s movement. Since the Chief is wearing the Halo 3 Mark VI, we can assume that it’ll have the classic movement.

But, here’s the part that everyone will hate me for this.

If Osiris makes a comeback in Infinite (I would like to see their story continue, but limited), then their movement system would mostly be the Spartan Abilities/H5’s movement system.

But what about multiplayer?

The movement in multiplayer should have both movement systems, but DIFFERENT depending if you’re playing in Social or Competitive multiplayer. The social playlist would have both movement systems in dedicated playlists, but the competitive multiplayer would strictly only have the classic movement system for old school Halo multiplayer.

Another way to feature both movement systems is to have the player pick which Spartan armor (MJOLNIR Mark VI for Classic or MJOLNIR GEN2 for H5’s movement) to play as, similar to playing as a Elite from the previous games. In Reach, the Spartan was the default player species in all gamemodes while the Elites were limited to specific modes like Invasion or Elite Slayer. We can have this type of system to make the classic MJOLNIR Mark VI as the default Spartan armor for all gamemodes in Infinite while the MJOLNIR GEN2 is limited (or very limited in order to maintain the classic movement) to specific playlists.

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> Since the Chief is wearing the Halo 3 Mark VI, we can assume that it’ll have the classic movement.

Woah, woah, woah… I’m going to have to toss in the flag for a moment.

The rest of your post is pretty good, but there are no mechical gameplay assumptions to be made from the Halo Infinite teaser trailer. Speculation perhaps, but zero assumptions about the actual gameplay can be definitively drawn from a teaser. Remember, Halo 5’s entire marketing campaign was a big misrepresentation of the story, and Chief’s cloak from the Halo 5 teaser trailer didn’t have anything to do with the game. Teaser trailers should not build expectations for actual gameplay; especially with just the art style you’re referencing here for your argument.

Aside from all that, I actually do pretty much agree with most of your post. I agree with you insofar that we should be able to compromise on gameplay mechanics; specifically sprint. I agree with you on the armor selection idea for players to be able to pick either sprint or classic movement on campaign. And you offer some potential solutions for MP but I think non sprint playlists should be limited to classic playlists, while sprint should otherwise be the default movement speed in other playlists (I really don’t think most ranked playlists should exclude sprint, so this is where I’d differ from you on this).

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> If Osiris makes a comeback in Infinite (I would like to see their story continue, but limited), then their movement system would mostly be the Spartan Abilities/H5’s movement system.
>
> But what about multiplayer?
>
> The movement in multiplayer should have both movement systems, but DIFFERENT depending if you’re playing in Social or Competitive multiplayer. The social playlist would have both movement systems in dedicated playlists, but the competitive multiplayer would strictly only have the classic movement system for old school Halo multiplayer.
>
> Another way to feature both movement systems is to have the player pick which Spartan armor (MJOLNIR Mark VI for Classic or MJOLNIR GEN2 for H5’s movement) to play as, similar to playing as a Elite from the previous games. In Reach, the Spartan was the default player species in all gamemodes while the Elites were limited to specific modes like Invasion or Elite Slayer. We can have this type of system to make the classic MJOLNIR Mark VI as the default Spartan armor for all gamemodes in Infinite while the MJOLNIR GEN2 is limited (or very limited in order to maintain the classic movement) to specific playlists.

I don’t really see how having both styles of gameplay appear in Campaign would be worth the time/resources needed to make it happen (provided the game is primarily “classic”). At any rate, it would be jarring to transition from one style to the other and unsatisfactory for fans of both.

No matter how you slice it, having both styles in multiplayer would mean one of the following:

  • Two pools of maps and weapon tuning, which would mean fewer maps/weapons for both than otherwise (time/resources are finite, after all). - One pool of maps and weapon tuning that’s not optimized for one style. - One pool of maps and weapon tuning that’s not optimized for either style.Acknowledging that a call for compromise is in good spirit, it still stands that there will be someone getting the short end of the stick even if it’s both crowds.

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> I agree with you insofar that we should be able to compromise on gameplay mechanics; specifically sprint. I agree with you on the suit thing for sprint versus classic movement on campaign. And you offer some potential solutions for MP but I think non sprint playlists should be limited to classic playlists, while sprint should otherwise be the default movement speed in other playlists (I really don’t think most ranked playlists should exclude sprint, so this is where I’d differ from you on this).

I honestly don’t think a balanced compromise on Sprint that will satisfy both groups is possible.

How do you figure having Sprint by default with a minority of the game excluding it is a good compromise?

Why isn’t having a “faster-than-classic” BMS a more suitable solution?

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> > > > > > Let classic halo be classic halo, maybe spin offs could embrace the legacy more directly but let’s keep the enhanced movement.
> > >
> > > - I’m not upset, but I just wanted to post a rhetorical question. My comment was towards both and I absolutely could have worded it better to show it.Okay, thanks for clarifying - I’m not saying sprint would be new. I’m talking about new experiences. That’s very much different from being something new. This is also what I meant by people being defensive. You’re comparing movement systems and suggesting they’re inferior, causing some anti-sprinters to continue to engage with you. I already made my opinion about sprint heard numerous times before.Moving slower is beneath being able to run. We had one BMS to use as examples in CE, H2, and H3 and it was redundant, slow, and boring. Those games are great because of so many other elements, but one static BMS was not among them. - I think you’re missing the point of why I was talking about the MCC. We already experienced those games an uncountable number of times. We’re looking for something new that is similar to those games. New maps and tools that are in a familiar formula, which is what Reach, arguably, wasI now get your viewpoint better on the MCC. But likewise pro sprinters are looking for something new that is similar to the movement system in H4 & H5. Also I’m confused, how was Reach your example as a good game when it had sprint? If you were able to look past sprint enough to enjoy that game wouldn’t you be able to do the same again, or at least come to a compromise in Halo Infinite? - The immersive aspect is inconsequential to gameplay, which is why anti-sprinters dismiss that. Personal feelings and opinions don’t affect gameplay.This is where I strongly disagree. Most people don’t walk into game stores looking to purchase a game solely on its mechanics. People most often buy new games they think are going to be fun and (often times) immersive. I understand you value your gameplay mechanics moreso than you do fun, realism, immersion, or lore; but that’s no reason for you to disregard others for enjoying these things in Halo. Sprint actively benefits players by making them feel more like a Spartan (and that doesn’t imply people need to do everything else like backflips, or anything else) Sprint is a non-invasive, mainstream FPS approach to help add more realism to Halo. - This is because you’re implying one system is objectively better than the other. My point was that since you’re comparing systems, we have free-reign to talk about the older systemI’m still honestly confused by this. Are you now retracting your “don’t discuss the old movement system” demand? If not why should you be the only ones who get to discuss it in the debate about whether or not sprint should stay in Halo? - Have you really read through all the threads? I don’t deny that pro-sprinters get drawn into debates, but I don’t do that. If they say something very questionable, then maybe. You have an opinion, and I’ll respect itI‘ve really read through them (most of them). Took a long time and wow, many of the anti-sprinters (particularly most of the regulars in that thread) strike me as overly aggressive and pushy with their viewpoints on this issue. I didn’t say you did this and I do also respect your opinions on the issue. - What new discussion points can you bring? Personal feelings such as enjoyment and immersion is subjective and can’t be reasonably discussed between two parties. The most you can get with that is mutual understanding. I’m sure you read my newest reply to EvilKeny, so I’m going to bring to the table if the inclusion or absence of sprint is better for Halo in the long-term. With that, we can actually discuss the pros and cons of the system instead of getting into arguments about personal taste.There’s going to be a ton of new things to discuss about it until we learn more about the movement mechanics in Halo Infinite. There’s a new game coming out and clearly there are competing priorities from the fan base over this issue… The hype train is in full effect and here’s hoping for sprint in Halo Infinite. - I’ve given my compromise numerous times over the last two or three years. Like I said, I can’t think of anymore changes that may have as little drawbacks as possible to both populations. Creating and designing two modes takes away from the whole experience due to monetary budgets and time constraints. If you want a game with sections that feel half–Yoinked!- or unfinished, there you go. Creating two playlists splits the population, that at the end of the game’s lifecycle, only one is going to remain, like with TDM and Objective Playlists in older Halo and Call of Duty games. Whoever likes to play the mode that is abandoned has to buy a newer game just to play with others online. The inclusion of bots helps to slightly mitigate this split, however. There are also gameplay balances we need to consider when splitting the population, complicating the competitive scene as well. Everyone already knows what’s going to happen if gameplay goes Full Classic, Full Reach, or Full Advanced. Completely overhauling Halo’s multiplayer to not even be remotely similar to what it’s been is basically franchise suicide. Fixing current and older game systems, or creating something new and familiar to both parties, would be a better compromise that doesn’t take away resources or make anyone feel like they need to play catch up when playlists die.I understand your feelings on this issue but it strikes me as an “all or nothing,” approach which is inherently selfish IMO. For instance, there have been multiple well-articulated compromises from several pro sprinters, neutral fans, and even some anti sprinters; but for some reason there seems to be some immovable anti-sprint crowd when it comes to compromise. That’s just not how debating works in the real world. Resources are going to be spent regardless, and 343i has had way more time than ever to develop Halo Infinite so no need to cite those things as immovable forces in this argument. Besides whose to say that a compromise on sprint/movement mechanics has to be expensive and/or excessively time-consuming? Wouldn’t you want Halo Infinite to appeal to as many gamers as possible? Also they had plenty of smaller maps in Halo 5 which weren’t impacted any differently by sprint then they were on larger maps. They added in classic maps that felt and played just like the same old Halo 2 maps we had; except that they were just more fun to be able to sprint around in (and clamber in). - Everyone might lose, but elements of new and old Halo are in. Just reply and I’ll give out my idea again.I don’t see how everyone might lose. When it comes to movement mechanics there will either be - 1) Sprint in the form of continuing to enhance the movement mechanics from where Halo 5 left off. In this scenario all anti-sprinters would lose, all pro-sprinters would win. - 2) Sprint in the form of some split compromise. In this scenario all diehard antisprinters would lose, some diehard prosprinters would probably lose, but all other players who fall in the middle on this issue would be completely fine. - 3) No sprint. In this scenario prosprinters would lose, many players who fall in the middle on this issue would lose, but antisprinters would win. But bottom line no matter what happens in Halo Infinite when it comes to sprint, some will lose and some will win.

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> > This post could do without the stat-flaming (which is against forum policy).
>
> I love it when people resort to stat bashing when arguing for changes in Halo. It invalidates any arguments they put forth and gets them banned. Let him rant away.

Stat-flaming, or finding any other way to be rude, does not invalidate an argument. That is, it doesn’t make anything one says less true. For example, if you say that there’s a meaningful choice in whether or sprint or not to sprint, and then proceed to call me an idiot, I’d be wrong to think that what you said prior to calling me an idiot is somehow suddenly not true, and I don’t need to acknowledge it.

Of course, being rude makes others less receptive to your arguments, and less interested in listening what you have to say, which is why it’s not advisable, even if you’re a chronic jerk who doesn’t otherwise care what people think about them.

Do you really want another halo with classic movement? I’d much rather the new super fluid movement from halo 5. I thought it was near perfect and in halo 6 it only has room for improvement. The clasic halos feature a slow paced clunky movement system which isn’t bad in it’s self. It’s just that we have already played 5 halos (not including halos reach, 4, and 5) where the movement has been exactly the same. Why would I want to play halo 6 if it feels exactly like halo 2 or 3. I already own the Mcc if I want classic halo I’ll just play that. It’s ok for halo 6 to be different, new push boundaries. Halo 5 featured some really cool new things like spartan charge and boost dashing. These mechanics can make for really good situations where you can out play your enemies. You can reverse fights that you would have otherwise lost really well if you are good enough. 343 gets to much flack. I will be really dissatisfied if they make a lack luster halo 2 coppy because their “fans” pressured them into it. I like all the halos fast movement mechanics or not. The last thing I want to see is a halo that could be something new and beautiful on its own be shoved into the shadow of “classic halo, and what halos supposed to be”. With all that said I am beyond excited for halo infinite regardless of whatever it may turn out to be.

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> Do you really want another halo with classic movement? I’d much rather the new super fluid movement from halo 5. I thought it was near perfect and in halo 6 it only has room for improvement.

Movement in classic Halo isn’t any less fluid than in Halo 5. It’s just that in Halo 5 it’s easier to learn to move properly since the Spartan Abilities help mitigate bad timing. However, some people prefer the simpler movement of classic Halo that demands more attention and accuracy from the player.

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> Why would I want to play halo 6 if it feels exactly like halo 2 or 3. I already own the Mcc if I want classic halo I’ll just play that.

On the other hand, why would you want to play Halo 6 if it feels exactly like Halo 5? After all, you already own Halo 5 and can play that if you want Spartan Abilities. See how this works both ways?

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> It’s ok for halo 6 to be different, new push boundaries.

This can be interpreted in many ways, depending on what you think as “different”, and where you think the boundaries lie. Frankly, I don’t see how continuing with Spartan Abilities makes Halo more different (let alone how that pushes boundaries), when such style of movement was already four years ago popularized by Titanfall, and similar ideas had before that appeared in Crysis 3 and later in some recent CoD games, just to name a few examples. In general, this advanced movement seems to have been a somewhat of a trend among developers in the period 2013–2016, though not much became of it with Crysis being Crysis, Titanfall failing to become the new thing, and Halo 5 and CoD facing pushback from fans. At this point, I can’t see how having this kind of advanced movement mechanics as the main gimmick of a game would in any way be different, let alone boundary-pushing.

Although not boundary-pushing by any stretch of the imagination, classic Halo is, at the very least, different from everything we’ve seen in the past eight years.

> 2533274856055747;432:
> Halo 5 featured some really cool new things like spartan charge and boost dashing. These mechanics can make for really good situations where you can out play your enemies. You can reverse fights that you would have otherwise lost really well if you are good enough.

You could also reverse fights in the classic Halo games if you were good enough with your strafe. There was also arguably more depth to it since, rather than resorting to one power move like Thruster Pack, you had to come up with a good, sufficiently unpredictable strafe pattern that’d throw off the opponent’s aim.

> 2533274856055747;432:
> I will be really dissatisfied if they make a lack luster halo 2 coppy because their “fans” pressured them into it.

Who has said anything about a Halo 2 copy? “Classic movement” does not mean a Halo 2 copy.

Also, it’s really rude to imply with those scare quotes that people who want classic movement are any less fans than you are. You and other fans of modern Halo aren’t above the rest of the fans in any way, so just drop that attitude and respect your peers. We’re all Halo fans, and that’s all there is to it.

> 2535449665894532;422:
> > 2535449665894532;421:
> > > 2535444702990491;391:
> > > > 2533274794648158;389:
> > > > > 2535436510464872;388:
> > > > > Let classic halo be classic halo, maybe spin offs could embrace the legacy more directly but let’s keep the enhanced movement.
> > > >
> > > > Doesn’t seem very enhanced.
> > >
> > > Most of those antisprint propaganda Youtube clips get up to 50% as many dislikes as they do likes (Case in point)… That’s quite telling, in terms of how divisive and inconclusive they actually are.
> >
> > Most of the original Halo fans have left Halo due to the great change though. Case and point the severe population decline after 343i ignored the (at the time) majority of the fan base. So with that, most of the original playerbase has left and obviously wouldn’t be watching Halo videos anymore.
> >
> > Plus the dissecting of advanced mobility has been torn apart so many times I can’t fathom how people can still truly believe that it is the best for Halos gameplay.
>
> And before I get blasted for the last comment. I am not trying to fanboy or get people angry. I genuinely want to know how after advanced mobility has been torn apart factually and with evidence, how can people still defend it as if it is better factually excluding personal preference.
>
> You may even change my mind.

Simply because one is not factually better than the other. They are 2 different styles of play each having their own pros an cons. Pro Classic player will claim that the new system decreases gameplay fluidity and increases TTK, while Pro Halo 5 player will claim that the old system is boring and the new one allows for more styles of engagement. Taken from the point of view of one or the other the opposing movement is ‘factually’ worse since both styles play differently, it really is simply a preference at the end of the day.
Thus we will have to wait and see if 343 decide to take it back to Halo’s roots, continue forwards with their advanced movements or create a hybrid of a sort.

> 2533274825830455;433:
> > 2533274856055747;432:
> > Do you really want another halo with classic movement? I’d much rather the new super fluid movement from halo 5. I thought it was near perfect and in halo 6 it only has room for improvement.
>
> Movement in classic Halo isn’t any less fluid than in Halo 5. It’s just that in Halo 5 it’s easier to learn to move properly since the Spartan Abilities help mitigate bad timing. However, some people prefer the simpler movement of classic Halo that demands more attention and accuracy from the player.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274856055747;432:
> > Why would I want to play halo 6 if it feels exactly like halo 2 or 3. I already own the Mcc if I want classic halo I’ll just play that.
>
> On the other hand, why would you want to play Halo 6 if it feels exactly like Halo 5? After all, you already own Halo 5 and can play that if you want Spartan Abilities. See how this works both ways?
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274856055747;432:
> > It’s ok for halo 6 to be different, new push boundaries.
>
> This can be interpreted in many ways, depending on what you think as “different”, and where you think the boundaries lie. Frankly, I don’t see how continuing with Spartan Abilities makes Halo more different (let alone how that pushes boundaries), when such style of movement was already four years ago popularized by Titanfall, and similar ideas had before that appeared in Crysis 3 and later in some recent CoD games, just to name a few examples. In general, this advanced movement seems to have been a somewhat of a trend among developers in the period 2013–2016, though not much became of it with Crysis being Crysis, Titanfall failing to become the new thing, and Halo 5 and CoD facing pushback from fans. At this point, I can’t see how having this kind of advanced movement mechanics as the main gimmick of a game would in any way be different, let alone boundary-pushing.
>
> Although not boundary-pushing by any stretch of the imagination, classic Halo is, at the very least, different from everything we’ve seen in the past eight years.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274856055747;432:
> > Halo 5 featured some really cool new things like spartan charge and boost dashing. These mechanics can make for really good situations where you can out play your enemies. You can reverse fights that you would have otherwise lost really well if you are good enough.
>
> You could also reverse fights in the classic Halo games if you were good enough with your strafe. There was also arguably more depth to it since, rather than resorting to one power move like Thruster Pack, you had to come up with a good, sufficiently unpredictable strafe pattern that’d throw off the opponent’s aim.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274856055747;432:
> > I will be really dissatisfied if they make a lack luster halo 2 coppy because their “fans” pressured them into it.
>
> Who has said anything about a Halo 2 copy? “Classic movement” does not mean a Halo 2 copy.
>
> Also, it’s really rude to imply with those scare quotes that people who want classic movement are any less fans than you are. You and other fans of modern Halo aren’t above the rest of the fans in any way, so just drop that attitude and respect your peers. We’re all Halo fans, and that’s all there is to it.

Thanks for the response it was really good and well written. I just want to say that I think you read my post with an attitude when I didn’t really intend for one. It was supposed to be more of an honest question. Not a put down. Me saying “fan” wasn’t an implication that classic halo fans are lesser than modern halo fans. (Also my favorite halos are CE, ODST, and 5. So I’m not just a modern fan.) It was me pointing out the people who never give 343 a break and want halo 6 to be exactly like clasic halo to a T and will freak out if it’s not (the people who won’t buy halo 5 because you can run.) I just want halo 6 to be different, because I don’t want people to suffer from halo fatigue. Halos fanbase isn’t as big as it used to be.

People do write comments as if were all the “classic” games the same.
Halo has always evolved, CE plays way different, than 3. Just because you can’t sprint, it’s not the same game. The sandbox, maps, balance, the matchmaking, multiplayer, customization, the vehicles etc. - all these things were heavily improved within these games.

Halo’s true Formular was never about abilities. Everything (Power Weapons, Power Up’s, Teleporter’s, Man Cannons etc.) came from interaction with the maps. This made the maps unique.
In Terms of Maplayouts you’re way more restricted now.

You can like abilities, you can like fast paced, chaotic games, there is no problem with it. But this isn’t about “classic” or “modern” (in my opinion, this advanced movement trend has already died, but this is not my point) gameplay.
Battlefield is known for huge maps and big team battles, COD is known for kill streaks and Halo was known for the Run’n Gun Gameplay, Fair start’s and it’s unique sandbox.
There is nothing like a Compromise. In order to appeal to everyone, you’ll appeal to no one. And seperated playlist’s won’t work either, because the sandbox in H5 is heavily built around the enhanced mobility.

> 2533275013370605;434:
> > 2535449665894532;422:
> > > 2535449665894532;421:
> > > > 2535444702990491;391:
> > > > > 2533274794648158;389:
> > > > > > 2535436510464872;388:
> > > > > > Let classic halo be classic halo, maybe spin offs could embrace the legacy more directly but let’s keep the enhanced movement.
> > > > >
> > > > > Doesn’t seem very enhanced.
> > > >
> > > > Most of those antisprint propaganda Youtube clips get up to 50% as many dislikes as they do likes (Case in point)… That’s quite telling, in terms of how divisive and inconclusive they actually are.
>
> Simply because one is not factually better than the other. They are 2 different styles of play each having their own pros an cons. Pro Classic player will claim that the new system decreases gameplay fluidity and increases TTK, while Pro Halo 5 player will claim that the old system is boring and the new one allows for more styles of engagement. Taken from the point of view of one or the other the opposing movement is ‘factually’ worse since both styles play differently, it really is simply a preference at the end of the day.
>
> Thus we will have to wait and see if 343 decide to take it back to Halo’s roots, continue forwards with their advanced movements or create a hybrid of a sort.

“Pro-Classic players will claim that the new system decreases gameplay fluidity and increased TTK”? It’s rather that most of the “new system” mechanics don’t aid in fluidity or provide more options (Sprint and Clamber reduce your options, Clamber and Slide diminish momentum); and some of those that do are too rewarding of simple tasks (Spartan Charge and Ground Pound). I think there’s a discussion to be had about the merits of Thrusters, Stabilizers, and maybe Slide.

“Pro-Halo 5 players will claim that the old system is boring and the new one allows for more styles of engagement”? What was so boring about being able to move and shoot in different directions while moving at max speed? What new “styles of engagement” (I’d love a definition for this too) does the newer system make possible?

Also, the “new system” is accounted for by decreased TTK, not increased.

> 2535473481267884;436:
> People do write comments as if were all the “classic” games the same.
> Halo has always evolved, CE plays way different, than 3. Just because you can’t sprint, it’s not the same game. The sandbox, maps, balance, the matchmaking, multiplayer, customization, the vehicles etc. - all these things were heavily improved within these games.

“Classic Halo” is generally undestood as Halo with the minimal base mechanics (i.e., no Spartan Abilities, no Armor Abilities), and equal starts. This is what people mean when they talk about the original trilogy as one entity. I’m sure everybody understands that there are significant differences in the specifics of how the gameplay is executed between Halo CE, 2, and 3.

> 2533274825830455;438:
> > 2535473481267884;436:
> > People do write comments as if were all the “classic” games the same.
> > Halo has always evolved, CE plays way different, than 3. Just because you can’t sprint, it’s not the same game. The sandbox, maps, balance, the matchmaking, multiplayer, customization, the vehicles etc. - all these things were heavily improved within these games.
>
> “Classic Halo” is generally undestood as Halo with the minimal base mechanics (i.e., no Spartan Abilities, no Armor Abilities), and equal starts. This is what people mean when they talk about the original trilogy as one entity. I’m sure everybody understands that there are significant differences in the specifics of how the gameplay is executed between Halo CE, 2, and 3.

I know, but that was not my point.
A lot of people make the excuse that Halo had to Evolve in order to defend the S.A. So when you read arguments like this, people get the assumption that there was no improvements in the earlier games, which is obviously wrong.

I hope you get my point.

> 2535473481267884;439:
> > 2533274825830455;438:
> > > 2535473481267884;436:
> > > People do write comments as if were all the “classic” games the same.
> > > Halo has always evolved, CE plays way different, than 3. Just because you can’t sprint, it’s not the same game. The sandbox, maps, balance, the matchmaking, multiplayer, customization, the vehicles etc. - all these things were heavily improved within these games.
> >
> > “Classic Halo” is generally undestood as Halo with the minimal base mechanics (i.e., no Spartan Abilities, no Armor Abilities), and equal starts. This is what people mean when they talk about the original trilogy as one entity. I’m sure everybody understands that there are significant differences in the specifics of how the gameplay is executed between Halo CE, 2, and 3.
>
> I know, but that was not my point.
> A lot of people make the excuse that Halo had to Evolve in order to defend the S.A. So when you read arguments like this, people get the assumption that there was no improvements in the earlier games, which is obviously wrong.
>
> I hope you get my point.

Oh, so you were coming from that angle, I see.