The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> The point about knife speed is that, in CS:GO, a game which people mention does not have sprint, it has a function that allows you to move faster than BMS while sacrificing the ability to shoot. Its one of the primary arguments against sprint, and CS:GO is brought up a lot, so its key to remember that point. It has no bearing on sword speed or your opinion on spartan charge, its just a fact. CS:GO contains a speed above BMS that allows you to move faster while sacrificing your ability to shoot. I bolded it so you understand.

I’m asking if it’s sprinting if you use a sword in Halo 5, because apparently it’s equal to sprinting in CS:GO, despite retaining combat capabilities.
Does the knife reduce turning speed? Is it in forward direction only?
What if the knife speed is the default speed and every other weapon lowers the movement speed instead?

Opinion on Spartan Charge? It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact that Spartan Charge and Sprint are two completely different mechanics as I explained. Spartan Charge just so happen to be tied to sprint in Halo 5.

> 2533274848599184;4146:
> Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.

I was under the impression that the 5 million copies were shipped, not sold.
Not even certain Microsoft has released any sales data for Halo 5 either.

Well yes, barely registers.
It’s not close to the top contenders, not registering on their radar, and therefore Halo is no competition to them, if Halo can’t compete with them, they’re no competition for Halo.
See, I can make reductions myself.

> 2533274848599184;4142:
> There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.

Reduction of what there was to compete with Halo by placing specific filters in to remove plenty of games.
People are not tied to a specific Genre, or platform.

> 2533274795123910;36:
> Halo CE was a launch title for a rather obscure new console competing with the already established PS2 and what PC had to offer.
>
> As far as games go, Quake 3 Arena, Counter Strike, Warcraft III, Starcraft, Diablo 2, Deus Ex, Newerwinter Nights, Baldur’s Gate 2, The Elder Scrolls, Unreal Championship and Tournament, Tribes, WoW, Splinter Cell, Battlefield, GTA, Star War KoToR, Guitar Hero, Far Cry, Crysis, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Need for Speed, Shadow of the Colossus, Gran Turismo, Forza, Max Payne, Mech Assault, Devil May Cry, Tropico, C&C franchise, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Dexter, Zelda, Mario, Final Fantasy, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, Metroid Prime, Team Fortress, Portal, Medal of Honor, Resident Evil, Star Wars Jedi Knight, Total War, Prince of Persia, Tony Hawk games, Sly Racoon, Civilization, Serious Sam, Half Life, Tekken, Company of Heros, Gears of War, Burnout, not to talk about all the Fifas, Maddens, NHLs, NBAs.
> Oh, CoD, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Star Wars Battlefront,

> 2533274795123910;36:
> You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.

Why choose between FPSs only? There are a plethora of different games.

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> > > > > > > 2533274848599184;4142:
> > > > > > > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How does it not have much competition now?
> > > > > > It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> > > > > > If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
> > > > >
> > > > > There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.
> > > >
> > > > The halo 5 player base nosedived while halo 3 was successful for 3 years. You keep moving the goalposts because you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong.
>
> The Ford Model T was once the most successful car ever, outselling all other cars for years. Ford should go back to that, so that they get all those sales back. Numbers without context are meaningless, and calling people delusional in a forum where you have provided no rationale for your arguments is actually just funny

You’re seriously trying to compare the classic Halos to the Ford model T? Puh-yoinking-lease. Not only was the Ford model T far more affordable than it’s competition, but it was also technologically inferior to the new vehicles that replaced it in virtually every way.

The classic Halo’s were not significantly cheaper than other games at the time like the model T was compared to other cars, and with the exception of graphics and framerates, they don’t have massive technical inferiorities either. They also don’t have any crippling saftey hazards that were fixed in the newer games.<!–/data/user/0/com.samsung.android.app.notes/files/share/clipdata_200722_151629_872.sdoc–>

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> 2533274848599184;4141:
> > 2533274794648158;4135:
> > Halo had plenty competition back then.
>
> Theres a lot to unpack here. Quick note, I find it funny that Favyn starts off the video by calling the argument, weak, dismissive, and ignorant, then uses cherry picked examples to make his point. Favyn has made tons of videos that other Halo Youtubers have responded to, and tends to respond to all of them in a weak, dismissive, and ignorant manner. The latest being advanced mobility in Halo, between him, Aozolai and ShyWay
>
> The two major articles Favyn uses to justify his argument are the Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009, back when Major Nelson used to track these by UU. There are two major points to consider here. The conditions of each launch game, and what exactly the two articles Favyn mentions tell us.
>
> Conditions of each launch game: Halo 3 was the culmination of the trilogy that had defined the Xbox. Halo 2 had ended on a cliffhanger, almost everyone playing FPS on consoles had played/heard of Halo, so there was no way this wasnt going to be the biggest launch ever. CoD 4 launched as a soft reboot of the series. Even with heightened expectations, it wasnt feasible to compare their launches. What it did do, it inject fresh air into the franchise. There is no argument that Halo was the biggest FPS launch in the early era of the Xbox 360. Which leads to the second point.
>
> What exactly does Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009 tell us? Major Nelson tracked the games by the number of UUs per year. Every unique user that logs into the game. Over a whole year. Even the casual gamer who jumps between fads isnt going to play Modern Warfare 2 the whole year. So if they log in and play Halo once, it counts.
> Here is the WEEKLY counts of unique users from January 2008 onwards, 3 months after both Halo 3 and CoD 4 launch.
>
>
> - https://majornelson.com/2008/01/22/live-activity-for-week-of-1-14/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/02/19/live-activity-for-week-of-2-11/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/02/26/live-activity-for-week-of-2-18/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/04/08/live-activity-for-week-of-3-31/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/06/04/live-activity-for-week-of-5-26/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/06/18/live-activity-for-week-of-june-9th/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/07/03/live-activity-for-week-of-june-23rd/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/07/30/live-activity-for-week-of-july-21st/These links are all archives, there are more examples that must be found. But the only one of these where Halo is ahead of CoD 4 is in July (7 month, just pointing it out)
> How is it that a massive game like Halo 3 didnt have more weekly users than a new game like CoD 4 only 3 months after launch? Lots of possibilities exist, people finishing the campaign and quitting, casual players moving from Halo 3 to CoD, but it doesnt change the fact that a little bit of competition caused Halo to lose a lot of its “returning” fanbase, which I argued werent really true fans anyway, just playing the best FPS that was available for them.
>
> Btw, the figures for 2009 get even worse. Halo 3 never appears ahead of Modern Warfare 2 weekly, and the only time Halo appears in the top spot is when Reach launches in September. In November it is displaced by BOTH Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops.

I don’t care if Halo 3 wasn’t in the #1 spot all the time. It was consistently in the top 3. Your claim was that Halo 3 was popular because it had no competition. The video showcases plenty of competition in those years.

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> 2533274848599184;4141:
> > 2533274794648158;4135:
> > Halo had plenty competition back then.
>
> Theres a lot to unpack here. Quick note, I find it funny that Favyn starts off the video by calling the argument, weak, dismissive, and ignorant, then uses cherry picked examples to make his point. Favyn has made tons of videos that other Halo Youtubers have responded to, and tends to respond to all of them in a weak, dismissive, and ignorant manner. The latest being advanced mobility in Halo, between him, Aozolai and ShyWay
>
> The two major articles Favyn uses to justify his argument are the Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009, back when Major Nelson used to track these by UU. There are two major points to consider here. The conditions of each launch game, and what exactly the two articles Favyn mentions tell us.
>
> Conditions of each launch game: Halo 3 was the culmination of the trilogy that had defined the Xbox. Halo 2 had ended on a cliffhanger, almost everyone playing FPS on consoles had played/heard of Halo, so there was no way this wasnt going to be the biggest launch ever. CoD 4 launched as a soft reboot of the series. Even with heightened expectations, it wasnt feasible to compare their launches. What it did do, it inject fresh air into the franchise. There is no argument that Halo was the biggest FPS launch in the early era of the Xbox 360. Which leads to the second point.
>
> What exactly does Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009 tell us? Major Nelson tracked the games by the number of UUs per year. Every unique user that logs into the game. Over a whole year. Even the casual gamer who jumps between fads isnt going to play Modern Warfare 2 the whole year. So if they log in and play Halo once, it counts.
> Here is the WEEKLY counts of unique users from January 2008 onwards, 3 months after both Halo 3 and CoD 4 launch.
>
>
> - LIVE Activity for week of 1/14 - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of 2/11 - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of 2/18 - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of 3/31 - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of 5/26 - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of June 9th - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of June 23rd - Xbox's Major Nelson - https://majornelson.com/2008/07/30/live-activity-for-week-of-july-21st/These links are all archives, there are more examples that must be found. But the only one of these where Halo is ahead of CoD 4 is in July (7 month, just pointing it out)
> How is it that a massive game like Halo 3 didnt have more weekly users than a new game like CoD 4 only 3 months after launch? Lots of possibilities exist, people finishing the campaign and quitting, casual players moving from Halo 3 to CoD, but it doesnt change the fact that a little bit of competition caused Halo to lose a lot of its “returning” fanbase, which I argued werent really true fans anyway, just playing the best FPS that was available for them.
>
> Btw, the figures for 2009 get even worse. Halo 3 never appears ahead of Modern Warfare 2 weekly, and the only time Halo appears in the top spot is when Reach launches in September. In November it is displaced by BOTH Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops.

There are 52 weeks in a year COD4 outperforming H3 in 6 of them does not equal outperforming it for the whole year, if it did then the yearly reports would have reflect that, pure conjecture on your part.

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> > 2533274848599184;4142:
> > The point about knife speed is that, in CS:GO, a game which people mention does not have sprint, it has a function that allows you to move faster than BMS while sacrificing the ability to shoot. Its one of the primary arguments against sprint, and CS:GO is brought up a lot, so its key to remember that point. It has no bearing on sword speed or your opinion on spartan charge, its just a fact. CS:GO contains a speed above BMS that allows you to move faster while sacrificing your ability to shoot. I bolded it so you understand.
>
> I’m asking if it’s sprinting if you use a sword in Halo 5, because apparently it’s equal to sprinting in CS:GO, despite retaining combat capabilities.
> Does the knife reduce turning speed? Is it in forward direction only?
> What if the knife speed is the default speed and every other weapon lowers the movement speed instead?
>
> Opinion on Spartan Charge? It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact that Spartan Charge and Sprint are two completely different mechanics as I explained. Spartan Charge just so happen to be tied to sprint in Halo 5.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274848599184;4146:
> > Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
>
> I was under the impression that the 5 million copies were shipped, not sold.
> Not even certain Microsoft has released any sales data for Halo 5 either.
>
> Well yes, barely registers.
> It’s not close to the top contenders, not registering on their radar, and therefore Halo is no competition to them, if Halo can’t compete with them, they’re no competition for Halo.
> See, I can make reductions myself.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274848599184;4142:
> > There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
>
> Reduction of what there was to compete with Halo by placing specific filters in to remove plenty of games.
> People are not tied to a specific Genre, or platform.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274795123910;36:
> > Halo CE was a launch title for a rather obscure new console competing with the already established PS2 and what PC had to offer.
> >
> > As far as games go, Quake 3 Arena, Counter Strike, Warcraft III, Starcraft, Diablo 2, Deus Ex, Newerwinter Nights, Baldur’s Gate 2, The Elder Scrolls, Unreal Championship and Tournament, Tribes, WoW, Splinter Cell, Battlefield, GTA, Star War KoToR, Guitar Hero, Far Cry, Crysis, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Need for Speed, Shadow of the Colossus, Gran Turismo, Forza, Max Payne, Mech Assault, Devil May Cry, Tropico, C&C franchise, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Dexter, Zelda, Mario, Final Fantasy, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, Metroid Prime, Team Fortress, Portal, Medal of Honor, Resident Evil, Star Wars Jedi Knight, Total War, Prince of Persia, Tony Hawk games, Sly Racoon, Civilization, Serious Sam, Half Life, Tekken, Company of Heros, Gears of War, Burnout, not to talk about all the Fifas, Maddens, NHLs, NBAs.
> > Oh, CoD, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Star Wars Battlefront,
>
>
>
> > 2533274795123910;36:
> > You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.
>
> Why choose between FPSs only? There are a plethora of different games.

The shooter genre is the most popular genre on consoles. People tend to spend their finite amount of money on specific items.

In finance, its the difference between fixed income and equities competing for investor money. For gamers, yes you could hypothetically be choosing between Mass Effect and Halo, but the difference is more pronounced when you pick between two similar products, such as Halo and Call of Duty. We can sit here and discuss various gaming franchises, but for me, as it relates to Halo, I’m less concerned with what the Forza player feels about the game than I am what the Battlefield player feels.

Also a lot of the major franchises you mentioned there started around 2006-2007, whereas Halo was already established and finishing up a trilogy after a game that ended on a cliffhanger. Not exactly fair comparisons.

Quick Edit:
5 million units sold is my understanding based on the thread, it asks for sales numbers not shipped.
Im also not saying that knife speed IS sprinting, but rather they are designed in a similar vein. The use being enhanced map traversal speed without gun readiness and since you mention the sword, the fact that it is available to all players equally (unlike sword speed). Here is some added context

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> > > > > > > > 2533274848599184;4142:
> > > > > > > > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How does it not have much competition now?
> > > > > > > It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> > > > > > > If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.
> > > > >
> > > > > The halo 5 player base nosedived while halo 3 was successful for 3 years. You keep moving the goalposts because you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong.
> >
> > The Ford Model T was once the most successful car ever, outselling all other cars for years. Ford should go back to that, so that they get all those sales back. Numbers without context are meaningless, and calling people delusional in a forum where you have provided no rationale for your arguments is actually just funny
>
> You’re seriously trying to compare the classic Halos to the Ford model T? Puh-yoinking-lease. Not only was the Ford model T far more affordable than it’s competition, but it was also technologically inferior to the new vehicles that replaced it in virtually every way.
> The classic Halo’s were not significantly cheaper than other games at the time like the model T was compared to other cars, and with the exception of graphics and framerates, they don’t have massive technical inferiorities either. They also don’t have any crippling saftey hazards that were fixed in the newer games.<!–/data/user/0/com.samsung.android.app.notes/files/share/clipdata_200722_151629_872.sdoc–>

Its a commentary on numbers without context. I see sarcasm is lost on you. Of course, no rational person would think I’m actually suggesting Ford make a car from the 1910s in order to dominate the auto industry.

Pointing out Halos old sales numbers and players is meaningless without context.

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> > 2533274848599184;4141:
> > > 2533274794648158;4135:
> > > Halo had plenty competition back then.
> >
> > Theres a lot to unpack here. Quick note, I find it funny that Favyn starts off the video by calling the argument, weak, dismissive, and ignorant, then uses cherry picked examples to make his point. Favyn has made tons of videos that other Halo Youtubers have responded to, and tends to respond to all of them in a weak, dismissive, and ignorant manner. The latest being advanced mobility in Halo, between him, Aozolai and ShyWay
> >
> > The two major articles Favyn uses to justify his argument are the Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009, back when Major Nelson used to track these by UU. There are two major points to consider here. The conditions of each launch game, and what exactly the two articles Favyn mentions tell us.
> >
> > Conditions of each launch game: Halo 3 was the culmination of the trilogy that had defined the Xbox. Halo 2 had ended on a cliffhanger, almost everyone playing FPS on consoles had played/heard of Halo, so there was no way this wasnt going to be the biggest launch ever. CoD 4 launched as a soft reboot of the series. Even with heightened expectations, it wasnt feasible to compare their launches. What it did do, it inject fresh air into the franchise. There is no argument that Halo was the biggest FPS launch in the early era of the Xbox 360. Which leads to the second point.
> >
> > What exactly does Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009 tell us? Major Nelson tracked the games by the number of UUs per year. Every unique user that logs into the game. Over a whole year. Even the casual gamer who jumps between fads isnt going to play Modern Warfare 2 the whole year. So if they log in and play Halo once, it counts.
> > Here is the WEEKLY counts of unique users from January 2008 onwards, 3 months after both Halo 3 and CoD 4 launch.
> >
> >
> > - LIVE Activity for week of 1/14 - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of 2/11 - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of 2/18 - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of 3/31 - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of 5/26 - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of June 9th - Xbox's Major Nelson - LIVE Activity for week of June 23rd - Xbox's Major Nelson - https://majornelson.com/2008/07/30/live-activity-for-week-of-july-21st/These links are all archives, there are more examples that must be found. But the only one of these where Halo is ahead of CoD 4 is in July (7 month, just pointing it out)
> > How is it that a massive game like Halo 3 didnt have more weekly users than a new game like CoD 4 only 3 months after launch? Lots of possibilities exist, people finishing the campaign and quitting, casual players moving from Halo 3 to CoD, but it doesnt change the fact that a little bit of competition caused Halo to lose a lot of its “returning” fanbase, which I argued werent really true fans anyway, just playing the best FPS that was available for them.
> >
> > Btw, the figures for 2009 get even worse. Halo 3 never appears ahead of Modern Warfare 2 weekly, and the only time Halo appears in the top spot is when Reach launches in September. In November it is displaced by BOTH Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops.
>
> There are 52 weeks in a year COD4 outperforming H3 in 6 of them does not equal outperforming it for the whole year, if it did then the yearly reports would have reflect that, pure conjecture on your part.

Unique Users per week per year. If 100,000 people own one game and play it every week, and if 1 million people own one game and play it once a year, which is more successful? I could’ve pulled the other weeks, but some are lost to archives and others say the same. CoD 4 consistently outperformed Halo 3 for weekly Xbox Live numbers. I dont understand how me, a person frequenting a Halo forum, could stand to gain by lying about this?

The entire point is that the basis of Favyns video is misleading. If you had played Halo 3 for 1 game in 2009, you wouldve counted as a unique user. That doesnt tell us about player population or retention, it just tells us about the volume of sales. Id expect Halo 3 after 2 years to have more sales than Modern Warfare 2 after 2 months, wouldnt you?

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> 2533274794648158;4164:
> > 2533274848599184;4141:
> > > 2533274794648158;4135:
> > > Halo had plenty competition back then.
> >
> > Theres a lot to unpack here. Quick note, I find it funny that Favyn starts off the video by calling the argument, weak, dismissive, and ignorant, then uses cherry picked examples to make his point. Favyn has made tons of videos that other Halo Youtubers have responded to, and tends to respond to all of them in a weak, dismissive, and ignorant manner. The latest being advanced mobility in Halo, between him, Aozolai and ShyWay
> >
> > The two major articles Favyn uses to justify his argument are the Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009, back when Major Nelson used to track these by UU. There are two major points to consider here. The conditions of each launch game, and what exactly the two articles Favyn mentions tell us.
> >
> > Conditions of each launch game: Halo 3 was the culmination of the trilogy that had defined the Xbox. Halo 2 had ended on a cliffhanger, almost everyone playing FPS on consoles had played/heard of Halo, so there was no way this wasnt going to be the biggest launch ever. CoD 4 launched as a soft reboot of the series. Even with heightened expectations, it wasnt feasible to compare their launches. What it did do, it inject fresh air into the franchise. There is no argument that Halo was the biggest FPS launch in the early era of the Xbox 360. Which leads to the second point.
> >
> > What exactly does Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009 tell us? Major Nelson tracked the games by the number of UUs per year. Every unique user that logs into the game. Over a whole year. Even the casual gamer who jumps between fads isnt going to play Modern Warfare 2 the whole year. So if they log in and play Halo once, it counts.
> > Here is the WEEKLY counts of unique users from January 2008 onwards, 3 months after both Halo 3 and CoD 4 launch.
> >
> >
> > - https://majornelson.com/2008/01/22/live-activity-for-week-of-1-14/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/02/19/live-activity-for-week-of-2-11/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/02/26/live-activity-for-week-of-2-18/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/04/08/live-activity-for-week-of-3-31/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/06/04/live-activity-for-week-of-5-26/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/06/18/live-activity-for-week-of-june-9th/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/07/03/live-activity-for-week-of-june-23rd/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/07/30/live-activity-for-week-of-july-21st/These links are all archives, there are more examples that must be found. But the only one of these where Halo is ahead of CoD 4 is in July (7 month, just pointing it out)
> > How is it that a massive game like Halo 3 didnt have more weekly users than a new game like CoD 4 only 3 months after launch? Lots of possibilities exist, people finishing the campaign and quitting, casual players moving from Halo 3 to CoD, but it doesnt change the fact that a little bit of competition caused Halo to lose a lot of its “returning” fanbase, which I argued werent really true fans anyway, just playing the best FPS that was available for them.
> >
> > Btw, the figures for 2009 get even worse. Halo 3 never appears ahead of Modern Warfare 2 weekly, and the only time Halo appears in the top spot is when Reach launches in September. In November it is displaced by BOTH Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops.
>
> I don’t care if Halo 3 wasn’t in the #1 spot all the time. It was consistently in the top 3. Your claim was that Halo 3 was popular because it had no competition. The video showcases plenty of competition in those years.

If its so popular why was it getting beat by a new game? Halo 3, Finish the Fight tagline, Believe marketing campaign, Halo 2 has a cliffhanger ending, and yet, it cant beat weekly numbers compared to a brand new game?
These numbers, and Favyns video in total, which this was a response to, is mainly just a function of sales volume. No one is arguing Halo 3 wasnt a massive success sales wise. But if people werent returning to it every week in the same number CoD players were, was it really as successful? The argument to be made is what wouldve happened if CoD 4 had launched in 2005 and Halo 3 went up against MW2.

Im trying to frame Favyns video in additional context. If you told me how many people walked into a store every day, it doesnt mean anything. If you tell me how many buy stuff, then we get somewhere. One year is along time for anyone to log on and play one match of Halo 3. Im more concerned with how many people are playing it consistently week to week, as are most of you.

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> 2533274848599184;4149:
> Compare Halo to Titanfall, Destiny, Battlefield, Call of Duty, and other games that actually directly compete for a consumer looking to get his FPS fix. No one buys Overwatch for their FPS fix, same with CS:GO.

This is funny because I specifically bought OW to get my FPS fix. If we talking about something like Battleborn which is more of an explicit MOBA/FPS hybrid, but we’re not. This line you’ve drawn between “direct competitors” is completely arbitrary to suit your point.

> Yes CS:GO does have a knife speed. All weapons make you move at different speeds, but the knife is a global melee tool, and it has its own unique move speed. As an example, you could equip a weapon with 220 units/second and then have your knife, which allows you to move at 250 units/second. You can choose to move around the map with your weapon out, and move at 220, or move around the map with your knife, at 250. Its a movement tool used by almost everyone who plays the game, and its done for a specific purpose.

You can also move at “Pistol speed” "Deagle Speed’ “negev speed”, “awp speed”, etc, but it really doesn’t matter. You can pretend that its totally the same thing as sprint all you want, but I reckon that players in sprint games wouldn’t be okay with switching solely to weapon based movement and say that its totally the same as sprint.

> Noticeable decline on what basis? Halo standards are all over the place. Id argue Halo was in a decline right after Halo 3, and we are at a point that we are still doing better than games like Doom. Similar critical reviews, more sales, so why use them as a baseline? Maybe, the big difference in sales is because of sprint (sarcasm).

Halo did start to decline after Halo 3 and the decline hasn’t stopped. As far as DOOM is concerned it also has no multiplayer to speak of and was the first new game in 12 years.

> If the competition isnt up to standard, is it worth comparing? If you play a professional sport, is there any reason to compare yourself to a highschooler? If that highschooler turns out to be Lebron James, enters the league and starts winning everything, maybe its time to take notice? Also, I wouldnt argue that Halo 3 was neck and neck. Weekly Xbox Live reports from Major Nelson show that Cod 4 actually led Xbox Live in number of UU’s. And the numbers get worse after Modern Warfare 2. There was no major FPS to compete with Halo before Call of Duty, and certainly none with the multiplayer focus or established base from previous gen. Where did that establishment go after CoD 4 and MW2 came out?

Apparently being in second place and swapping places for years isn’t “neck and neck.” You are the one making the claim that Halo didn’t have any “competition” until CoD4 so surely folks must have realized they didn’t actually like Halo that and switched to CoD4 en masse, but they didn’t. The only thing that changed is that Modern Warfare got a sequel that built on its mechanics and Halo 3 never did.

> Youve missed the point by a mile. Those games were never popular, thats the issue. My logic is not that Halo must copy all trends, but must realize why people identify with Call of Duty so much they will buy a version of it every year. If youd prefer Halo to stay the same until it dies, then thats fine. Some people prefer perfect Halo to decent Halo. I prefer having Halo to no Halo.

Those games were never popular? Are you being serious? If those games were considered “competitors” than I guess Halo sure isn’t “competing” with them now in which case why bother aping their mechanics?

I see we are still throwing out straw-men like “you just prefer Halo to stay the same until it dies.” I guess its fine for CoD to release year after year with relatively small changes to their formula(and even removing unpopular mechanics like advanced mobility), but that is not okay for Halo. On that note is Halo 3 the same as Halo 2? I’d really like to know.

As for me, I just don’t want a Halo that is Halo in name only. I don’t blindly buy every bit of Halo media just because it has Halo plastered on it. I don’t really care if the brand continues forever if I’m not getting what I want out of it. If a series truly has run its course, I don’t think there is anything wrong with retiring it with some dignity.

> If it truly appealed to the masses, it would’ve stayed on top of the Weekly XBL charts after Call of Duty came out. Im not trying to tell you why YOU like Halo 3. Im trying to tell you why it had such a large number of sales and players when it launched on Xbox.

A piece of media can have mass appeal even if it isn’t #1. It would be like saying Fortnite doesn’t have mass appeal because Crossfire still technically has more players.

> People try and attribute the fall of Halo to changing mechanics. Others, like myself, will argue that is it the exodus of the mass-market, the casual gamer, that caused Halo to become less popular. The solution to the issue depends on views of the problem. If you think a large portion of that H2/H3 player base was casual gamers, you’d need to incorporate some ideas into Halo to try and bring them back. If you think a small portion of that H2/H3 player base was casuals who left, then you must wonder why the others stopped playing. My points of view are this: Halo did not have much competition on its way to the top of the FPS genre. Once it arrived there, it maintained position for some time until CoD came along. If adding something like sprint or clamber is going to bring some of those who left back into the game, then I will gladly learn how to use it to my advantage in multiplayer.

There is not just one type of “casual gamer,” casual gamers are not a monolith. Even if more “casual” players are playing one game as opposed to another, it doesn’t mean that other “casual” players just vanish. This isn’t a zero sum game, especially given how much the industry has grown. Maintaining a game at least as popular as Halo 3 doesn’t require taking a chunk out of someone else’s fanbase. You can argue about which specific changes or franchises might have be the cause of Halo’s decline, but the “modern” additions clearly haven’t prevented from declining. The best you’ve given me is that “well it could’ve been worse” which is a convient position to take when that can’t be proved one way or another.

4171

The mobility in halo 5 is perfect

4172

> 2535405556134145;4171:
> The mobility in halo 5 is perfect

Yet it doesnt play like halo. You know what? We should make all the cars in forza space ships and tell them it’s still forza!

4173

> 2533274848599184;4169:
> > 2533274794648158;4164:
> > > 2533274848599184;4141:
> > > > 2533274794648158;4135:
> > > > Halo had plenty competition back then.
> > >
> > > Theres a lot to unpack here. Quick note, I find it funny that Favyn starts off the video by calling the argument, weak, dismissive, and ignorant, then uses cherry picked examples to make his point. Favyn has made tons of videos that other Halo Youtubers have responded to, and tends to respond to all of them in a weak, dismissive, and ignorant manner. The latest being advanced mobility in Halo, between him, Aozolai and ShyWay
> > >
> > > The two major articles Favyn uses to justify his argument are the Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009, back when Major Nelson used to track these by UU. There are two major points to consider here. The conditions of each launch game, and what exactly the two articles Favyn mentions tell us.
> > >
> > > Conditions of each launch game: Halo 3 was the culmination of the trilogy that had defined the Xbox. Halo 2 had ended on a cliffhanger, almost everyone playing FPS on consoles had played/heard of Halo, so there was no way this wasnt going to be the biggest launch ever. CoD 4 launched as a soft reboot of the series. Even with heightened expectations, it wasnt feasible to compare their launches. What it did do, it inject fresh air into the franchise. There is no argument that Halo was the biggest FPS launch in the early era of the Xbox 360. Which leads to the second point.
> > >
> > > What exactly does Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009 tell us? Major Nelson tracked the games by the number of UUs per year. Every unique user that logs into the game. Over a whole year. Even the casual gamer who jumps between fads isnt going to play Modern Warfare 2 the whole year. So if they log in and play Halo once, it counts.
> > > Here is the WEEKLY counts of unique users from January 2008 onwards, 3 months after both Halo 3 and CoD 4 launch.
> > >
> > >
> > > - https://majornelson.com/2008/01/22/live-activity-for-week-of-1-14/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/02/19/live-activity-for-week-of-2-11/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/02/26/live-activity-for-week-of-2-18/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/04/08/live-activity-for-week-of-3-31/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/06/04/live-activity-for-week-of-5-26/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/06/18/live-activity-for-week-of-june-9th/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/07/03/live-activity-for-week-of-june-23rd/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/07/30/live-activity-for-week-of-july-21st/These links are all archives, there are more examples that must be found. But the only one of these where Halo is ahead of CoD 4 is in July (7 month, just pointing it out)
> > > How is it that a massive game like Halo 3 didnt have more weekly users than a new game like CoD 4 only 3 months after launch? Lots of possibilities exist, people finishing the campaign and quitting, casual players moving from Halo 3 to CoD, but it doesnt change the fact that a little bit of competition caused Halo to lose a lot of its “returning” fanbase, which I argued werent really true fans anyway, just playing the best FPS that was available for them.
> > >
> > > Btw, the figures for 2009 get even worse. Halo 3 never appears ahead of Modern Warfare 2 weekly, and the only time Halo appears in the top spot is when Reach launches in September. In November it is displaced by BOTH Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops.
> >
> > I don’t care if Halo 3 wasn’t in the #1 spot all the time. It was consistently in the top 3. Your claim was that Halo 3 was popular because it had no competition. The video showcases plenty of competition in those years.
>
> If its so popular why was it getting beat by a new game? Halo 3, Finish the Fight tagline, Believe marketing campaign, Halo 2 has a cliffhanger ending, and yet, it cant beat weekly numbers compared to a brand new game?
> These numbers, and Favyns video in total, which this was a response to, is mainly just a function of sales volume. No one is arguing Halo 3 wasnt a massive success sales wise. But if people werent returning to it every week in the same number CoD players were, was it really as successful? The argument to be made is what wouldve happened if CoD 4 had launched in 2005 and Halo 3 went up against MW2.
>
> Im trying to frame Favyns video in additional context. If you told me how many people walked into a store every day, it doesnt mean anything. If you tell me how many buy stuff, then we get somewhere. One year is along time for anyone to log on and play one match of Halo 3. Im more concerned with how many people are playing it consistently week to week, as are most of you.

First you claim that Halo 3 was only so popular because it had no competition. I refute it, and now you claim it wasn’t actually that popular because it didn’t retain the #1 spot all of the time despite consistently remaining in the top 3 most played titles for three entire years. Compared to Halo 5 which fell to the top 25 in its first year. You keep going off on tangents instead of supporting your original claim.

4174

Less than 24 hours now until this two year old thread, which arguably houses the most controversial topic regarding Halo, reaches it’s ultimatum. I think 343 is biting their nails as much as we are.

4175

> Unique Users per week per year. If 100,000 people own one game and play it every week, and if 1 million people own one game and play it once a year, which is more successful?

I’m not really understanding your mental gymnastics here man nor do I want too, the weekly in as well as the yearly charts are based on who has the higher numbers pure and simple. It’s not based on some complex formula or a variation of e=mc², just like the steam charts are based on which game has the highest population at a given time. Just because COD4 was able to outperform H3 for certain weeks doesn’t mean it outperformed H3 for the whole year. For instance, a manga named Attack on Titan was the top-selling manga in the first half of 2014, taking the #1 spot from the usual placeholder One Piece. Which gave people the impression that One Piece would finally be dethroned, however, once the overall yearly sales came in people were able to see that One Piece was still the #1 selling manga, yet you’re making forgone conclusions with just 6 weeks of data.

> ? I could’ve pulled the other weeks, but some are lost to archives and others say the same. CoD 4 consistently outperformed Halo 3 for weekly Xbox Live numbers

I’m calling BS if COD4 did outperform H3 week by week majority of the time, then it would have been shown in the overall year statistics.

> The entire point is that the basis of Favyns video is misleading. If you had played Halo 3 for 1 game in 2009, you wouldve counted as a unique user. That doesnt tell us about player population or retention, it just tells us about the volume of sales.

I really don’t care about Favyn’s video, I just came after your post because the information was wrongly presented purposely in a way that could fit your narrative.

4176

> 2533275010844883;4175:
> > Unique Users per week per year. If 100,000 people own one game and play it every week, and if 1 million people own one game and play it once a year, which is more successful?
>
> I’m not really understanding your mental gymnastics here man nor do I want too, the weekly in as well as the yearly charts are based on who has the higher numbers pure and simple. It’s not based on some complex formula or a variation e=mc², just like the steam charts are based on which game has the highest population at a given time. Just because COD4 was able to outperform H3 for certain weeks doesn’t mean it outperformed H3 for the whole year. For instance, a manga named Attack on Titan was the top-selling manga in the first half of 2014, taking the #1 spot from the usual placeholder One Piece. Which gave people the impression that One Piece would finally be dethroned, however, once the overall yearly sales came in people were able to see that One Piece was still the #1 selling manga, yet you’re making forgone conclusions with just 6 weeks of data.
>
> Top-Selling Manga in Japan by Series: 2014 (First Half) - News - Anime News Network
> Top-Selling Manga in Japan by Series: 2014 - News - Anime News Network
>
>
>
>
> > ? I could’ve pulled the other weeks, but some are lost to archives and others say the same. CoD 4 consistently outperformed Halo 3 for weekly Xbox Live numbers
>
> I’m calling BS if COD4 did outperform H3 week by week majority of the time, then it would have been shown in the overall year statistics.
>
>
>
>
> > The entire point is that the basis of Favyns video is misleading. If you had played Halo 3 for 1 game in 2009, you wouldve counted as a unique user. That doesnt tell us about player population or retention, it just tells us about the volume of sales.
>
> I really don’t care about Favyn’s video, I just came after your post because the information was wrongly presented purposely in a way that could fit your narrative.

I have time so why the -Yoink- not.

Here is a list of all the listed weeks of 2008 for player activity, taken from the archived versions of Major Nelsons website.

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> 2533274794648158;4173:
> > 2533274848599184;4169:
> > > 2533274794648158;4164:
> > > > 2533274848599184;4141:
> > > > > 2533274794648158;4135:
> > > > > Halo had plenty competition back then.
> > > >
> > > > Theres a lot to unpack here. Quick note, I find it funny that Favyn starts off the video by calling the argument, weak, dismissive, and ignorant, then uses cherry picked examples to make his point. Favyn has made tons of videos that other Halo Youtubers have responded to, and tends to respond to all of them in a weak, dismissive, and ignorant manner. The latest being advanced mobility in Halo, between him, Aozolai and ShyWay
> > > >
> > > > The two major articles Favyn uses to justify his argument are the Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009, back when Major Nelson used to track these by UU. There are two major points to consider here. The conditions of each launch game, and what exactly the two articles Favyn mentions tell us.
> > > >
> > > > Conditions of each launch game: Halo 3 was the culmination of the trilogy that had defined the Xbox. Halo 2 had ended on a cliffhanger, almost everyone playing FPS on consoles had played/heard of Halo, so there was no way this wasnt going to be the biggest launch ever. CoD 4 launched as a soft reboot of the series. Even with heightened expectations, it wasnt feasible to compare their launches. What it did do, it inject fresh air into the franchise. There is no argument that Halo was the biggest FPS launch in the early era of the Xbox 360. Which leads to the second point.
> > > >
> > > > What exactly does Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009 tell us? Major Nelson tracked the games by the number of UUs per year. Every unique user that logs into the game. Over a whole year. Even the casual gamer who jumps between fads isnt going to play Modern Warfare 2 the whole year. So if they log in and play Halo once, it counts.
> > > > Here is the WEEKLY counts of unique users from January 2008 onwards, 3 months after both Halo 3 and CoD 4 launch.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - https://majornelson.com/2008/01/22/live-activity-for-week-of-1-14/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/02/19/live-activity-for-week-of-2-11/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/02/26/live-activity-for-week-of-2-18/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/04/08/live-activity-for-week-of-3-31/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/06/04/live-activity-for-week-of-5-26/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/06/18/live-activity-for-week-of-june-9th/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/07/03/live-activity-for-week-of-june-23rd/ - https://majornelson.com/2008/07/30/live-activity-for-week-of-july-21st/These links are all archives, there are more examples that must be found. But the only one of these where Halo is ahead of CoD 4 is in July (7 month, just pointing it out)
> > > > How is it that a massive game like Halo 3 didnt have more weekly users than a new game like CoD 4 only 3 months after launch? Lots of possibilities exist, people finishing the campaign and quitting, casual players moving from Halo 3 to CoD, but it doesnt change the fact that a little bit of competition caused Halo to lose a lot of its “returning” fanbase, which I argued werent really true fans anyway, just playing the best FPS that was available for them.
> > > >
> > > > Btw, the figures for 2009 get even worse. Halo 3 never appears ahead of Modern Warfare 2 weekly, and the only time Halo appears in the top spot is when Reach launches in September. In November it is displaced by BOTH Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops.
> > >
> > > I don’t care if Halo 3 wasn’t in the #1 spot all the time. It was consistently in the top 3. Your claim was that Halo 3 was popular because it had no competition. The video showcases plenty of competition in those years.
> >
> > If its so popular why was it getting beat by a new game? Halo 3, Finish the Fight tagline, Believe marketing campaign, Halo 2 has a cliffhanger ending, and yet, it cant beat weekly numbers compared to a brand new game?
> > These numbers, and Favyns video in total, which this was a response to, is mainly just a function of sales volume. No one is arguing Halo 3 wasnt a massive success sales wise. But if people werent returning to it every week in the same number CoD players were, was it really as successful? The argument to be made is what wouldve happened if CoD 4 had launched in 2005 and Halo 3 went up against MW2.
> >
> > Im trying to frame Favyns video in additional context. If you told me how many people walked into a store every day, it doesnt mean anything. If you tell me how many buy stuff, then we get somewhere. One year is along time for anyone to log on and play one match of Halo 3. Im more concerned with how many people are playing it consistently week to week, as are most of you.
>
> First you claim that Halo 3 was only so popular because it had no competition. I refute it, and now you claim it wasn’t actually that popular because it didn’t retain the #1 spot all of the time despite consistently remaining in the top 3 most played titles for three entire years. Compared to Halo 5 which fell to the top 25 in its first year. You keep going off on tangents instead of supporting your original claim.

Halo 3 is the best selling Halo. When it sold, what were the existing popular franchises for console players?
Consistently remaining in top 3 most played titles is always going to be a function of sales, and your ability to retain players/what competition exists. Its not a tangent. I spoke about how Halo 3 launched with relatively no competition, and as soon as it got one (Call of Duty 4) it was immediately surpassed for weekly players. If CoD 4 had become established before Halo 3 launches, does it get the same sales numbers and therefore, does it consistently pull players back in?

Furthermore, if the decline of Halo’s popularity on XBL can be traced back to Halo 3, then why should the blame be placed on game mechanics and mobility choices?
It SOLD well because it had no competition, but it didnt retain its players (popularity) that well once CoD came along.

I dont think you are understanding my point, so lets try this one:

Halo 3 sold 8.1 million copies from launch to January 2008, about 4 months. By September of 2011 (one year), Halo Reach had sold 4.7 million copies. This, despite the fact that the Xbox install base must have grown substantially in those 4 years, and Halo 3 was widely considered to be a success. Why the sudden drop off? Fun fact, Halo 3 sold 3.3 million copies in its first 12 days on sale, and Halo: Reach sold 3.3 million copies in its first month on sale. What does that number tell you?.

I have the conclusions that I would draw based on that data, but I leave the questions open ended for you to make your own assessment. With that in mind, Halo 5 selling 5 million copies with 3 months of launch, on a console that shot itself in the foot, and after a game like Halo 4; I would consider that a success.

4178

I stand corrected nonetheless, holding a top 1-3 placement throughout the year (3 years really) isn’t bad for Halo 3 in the slightest and it was somehow still the #1 most active game overall for that year so… nothing really changes.

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> 2533274819446242;4170:
> > 2533274848599184;4149:
> > Compare Halo to Titanfall, Destiny, Battlefield, Call of Duty, and other games that actually directly compete for a consumer looking to get his FPS fix. No one buys Overwatch for their FPS fix, same with CS:GO.
>
> This is funny because I specifically bought OW to get my FPS fix. If we talking about something like Battleborn which is more of an explicit MOBA/FPS hybrid, but we’re not. This line you’ve drawn between “direct competitors” is completely arbitrary to suit your point.
>
>
> > Yes CS:GO does have a knife speed. All weapons make you move at different speeds, but the knife is a global melee tool, and it has its own unique move speed. As an example, you could equip a weapon with 220 units/second and then have your knife, which allows you to move at 250 units/second. You can choose to move around the map with your weapon out, and move at 220, or move around the map with your knife, at 250. Its a movement tool used by almost everyone who plays the game, and its done for a specific purpose.
>
> You can also move at “Pistol speed” "Deagle Speed’ “negev speed”, “awp speed”, etc, but it really doesn’t matter. You can pretend that its totally the same thing as sprint all you want, but I reckon that players in sprint games wouldn’t be okay with switching solely to weapon based movement and say that its totally the same as sprint.
>
>
> > Noticeable decline on what basis? Halo standards are all over the place. Id argue Halo was in a decline right after Halo 3, and we are at a point that we are still doing better than games like Doom. Similar critical reviews, more sales, so why use them as a baseline? Maybe, the big difference in sales is because of sprint (sarcasm).
>
> Halo did start to decline after Halo 3 and the decline hasn’t stopped. As far as DOOM is concerned it also has no multiplayer to speak of and was the first new game in 12 years.
>
>
> > If the competition isnt up to standard, is it worth comparing? If you play a professional sport, is there any reason to compare yourself to a highschooler? If that highschooler turns out to be Lebron James, enters the league and starts winning everything, maybe its time to take notice? Also, I wouldnt argue that Halo 3 was neck and neck. Weekly Xbox Live reports from Major Nelson show that Cod 4 actually led Xbox Live in number of UU’s. And the numbers get worse after Modern Warfare 2. There was no major FPS to compete with Halo before Call of Duty, and certainly none with the multiplayer focus or established base from previous gen. Where did that establishment go after CoD 4 and MW2 came out?
>
> Apparently being in second place and swapping places for years isn’t “neck and neck.” You are the one making the claim that Halo didn’t have any “competition” until CoD4 so surely folks must have realized they didn’t actually like Halo that and switched to CoD4 en masse, but they didn’t. The only thing that changed is that Modern Warfare got a sequel that built on its mechanics and Halo 3 never did.
>
>
> > Youve missed the point by a mile. Those games were never popular, thats the issue. My logic is not that Halo must copy all trends, but must realize why people identify with Call of Duty so much they will buy a version of it every year. If youd prefer Halo to stay the same until it dies, then thats fine. Some people prefer perfect Halo to decent Halo. I prefer having Halo to no Halo.
>
> Those games were never popular? Are you being serious? If those games were considered “competitors” than I guess Halo sure isn’t “competing” with them now in which case why bother aping their mechanics?
>
> I see we are still throwing out straw-men like “you just prefer Halo to stay the same until it dies.” I guess its fine for CoD to release year after year with relatively small changes to their formula(and even removing unpopular mechanics like advanced mobility), but that is not okay for Halo. On that note is Halo 3 the same as Halo 2? I’d really like to know.
>
> As for me, I just don’t want a Halo that is Halo in name only. I don’t blindly buy every bit of Halo media just because it has Halo plastered on it. I don’t really care if the brand continues forever if I’m not getting what I want out of it. If a series truly has run its course, I don’t think there is anything wrong with retiring it with some dignity.
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> > If it truly appealed to the masses, it would’ve stayed on top of the Weekly XBL charts after Call of Duty came out. Im not trying to tell you why YOU like Halo 3. Im trying to tell you why it had such a large number of sales and players when it launched on Xbox.
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> A piece of media can have mass appeal even if it isn’t #1. It would be like saying Fortnite doesn’t have mass appeal because Crossfire still technically has more players.
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> > People try and attribute the fall of Halo to changing mechanics. Others, like myself, will argue that is it the exodus of the mass-market, the casual gamer, that caused Halo to become less popular. The solution to the issue depends on views of the problem. If you think a large portion of that H2/H3 player base was casual gamers, you’d need to incorporate some ideas into Halo to try and bring them back. If you think a small portion of that H2/H3 player base was casuals who left, then you must wonder why the others stopped playing. My points of view are this: Halo did not have much competition on its way to the top of the FPS genre. Once it arrived there, it maintained position for some time until CoD came along. If adding something like sprint or clamber is going to bring some of those who left back into the game, then I will gladly learn how to use it to my advantage in multiplayer.
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> There is not just one type of “casual gamer,” casual gamers are not a monolith. Even if more “casual” players are playing one game as opposed to another, it doesn’t mean that other “casual” players just vanish. This isn’t a zero sum game, especially given how much the industry has grown. Maintaining a game at least as popular as Halo 3 doesn’t require taking a chunk out of someone else’s fanbase. You can argue about which specific changes or franchises might have be the cause of Halo’s decline, but the “modern” additions clearly haven’t prevented from declining. The best you’ve given me is that “well it could’ve been worse” which is a convient position to take when that can’t be proved one way or another.

CS:GO knife speed is just a simple example of how players move around the map faster while sacrificing weapon readiness. Sure, its not the same as sprint, but its the idea that CS:GO is brought up as a sprintless game and yet, it has a mechanic that functions very similar to how sprint functions in Halo 5.

Sprint in Halo 5 adds momentum to movement abilities. Here is an exampleMy argument is the decline started immediately after Halo 3, and therefore you should be looking at what Halo 3 did wrong to “start” this decline. In a sense, im saying that movement abilities and loadouts and all the stuff that Reach/Halo 4/Halo 5 have done have less of an impact on the player base than lots of Halo fans actually think.

Halo and CoD didnt swap places. CoD consistently beat Halo week after week, even though Halo 3s launch should have padded those numbers PAST unbeatable.

Casual gamers are a market you need to grab to push your game past “X” number of sales. Its what Halo used to have, and this forum/community seems to think we need it again for the games to be considered “successful”

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> I stand corrected nonetheless, holding a top 1-3 placement throughout the year (3 years really) isn’t bad for Halo 3 in the slightest and it was somehow still the #1 most active game overall for that year so… nothing really changes.

Yeah but do you not understand this is a function of sales and nothing more? I stand corrected and nothing really changes. Right…

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> Yeah but do you not understand this is a function of sales and nothing more? I stand corrected and nothing really changes. Right…

Of course, nothing changes both Halo 3 and COD4 launched within less than 2 months of each other it’s not like one was experiencing sales boom while the other wasn’t and Halo 3 was still #1 most played game for that year.