The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > What’s Spartan charge then? An ability to inflict damage while moving at top speed. Most CS:GO players wont use the knife for combat, but they do use it for map traversal.
>
> Spartan Charge is not Sprint, that’s all that matter. They are two different mechanics.
> However, going deeper into it, because I know it is needed.
> Spartan Charge is a damage dealing mechanic which has a pre-requisite to be used, and that is moving at top speed. In Halo 5 it just so happens that top speed is Sprint.
> Remove sprint and Spartan Charge could easily be applied to moving at top speed forward with BMS only.
> For instance, tap the melee button to perform a basic melee attack, hold the melee while moving forward at top speed to charge a Spartan Charge metre like how the Rail gun and Splaser function.
> So, it is impossible to deal damage with the knife because most CS:GO players don’t use it in combat?
> Is the Sword Sprint in Halo 5?
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> > Your opinion on good is likely to be subjective. Personally, I quite enjoy Halo 5, and some pros do as well. The point here is not to wonder if its “doing any good” but to question why it is way out of the top games’ leagues. CoD has lasting appeal, and even the most hated CoD games dont cause fans to abandon the series. So what is the true appeal of a Halo game? What is its core fanbase? Why does every CoD game have a huge audience, even the ones that stray so far from the series “roots” as a World War 2, boots-on-the-ground shooter? Personally, I believe its due to players ability to connect with the game. Casual gamers like CoD because they see weapons they see in real life, they see marines they see in real life, they play a campaign that you can turn reasoning off for 6 hours and think is plausible. A lot of people cant do that with Halo. We wont ever actually know the answer, but its not foolish to try and counteract that by adding simple things that people can understand, like a super soldier being able to sprint or climb a ledge.
>
> A lot of nothing.
> Based on your own previous statements regarding Halo competition, it currently enjoy little competition.

How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.

The point about knife speed is that, in CS:GO, a game which people mention does not have sprint, it has a function that allows you to move faster than BMS while sacrificing the ability to shoot. Its one of the primary arguments against sprint, and CS:GO is brought up a lot, so its key to remember that point. It has no bearing on sword speed or your opinion on spartan charge, its just a fact. CS:GO contains a speed above BMS that allows you to move faster while sacrificing your ability to shoot. I bolded it so you understand.

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> How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.

I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat 'em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.

How does it not have much competition now?
It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.

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> > > > > > One big issue with the comparisons between Halo’s playerbase with classic movement and modern movement is it never takes into account the state of the Xbox brand at the time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo CE - The start of Xbox
> > > > > > Halo 2 - Xbox is big
> > > > > > Halo 3 - Xbox is even bigger
> > > > > > Halo Reach - Xbox is a platform focusing on Kinect because the Wii was huge
> > > > > > Halo 4 - Xbox is focusing even more on Kinect
> > > > > > Halo MCC - Xbox’s popularity massively dropped because of Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > > > > > Halo 5 - Xbox’s popularity still hasn’t recovered from Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> > > > >
> > > > > But thats assuming that the Xbox brand will ever be able to capture that magic again. You also have to consider the changing times of gaming. Halo 5 was absolutely a product of its time, and while this style of movement was popular in 2015, it may not be popular 5 years later in 2020. We live in a world where DOOM 2016 was a success and the mainstream FPS games have moved back to more classical styles of gameplay, one of which was the most successful game in the franchise ever (Modern Warfare).
> > > > >
> > > > > On top of that, you also have to consider whether Microsoft considers those games failures (most publishers consider 5 million in sales to be insufficient these days), and if they instead want to pivot Halo’s direction to attempt to recapture the magic of when Halo was successful. Pumping money into a project that appears to be a failure in most respects, with said failure potentially being blamed on the massive change in how Halo plays, makes zero business sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > Final point, the Xbox Series X isn’t out yet, so we can’t really gague whether people are still interested in Xbox as a platform. We’d have to wait and see, to be honest.
> > > >
> > > > I think the key point missing here is, lets take into account the state of FPS games during Halos lifetime. Between H3 and H:Reach is where CoD takes off, and thats arguably the biggest FPS game on the planet. All CoD has ever done is follow trends, and they consistently smash sales records and attract new players.
> > >
> > > That’s not actually true though, COD actually has come up with some of it’s own ideas, but for the most part it has continued to stick with it’s base mechanics. Go ahead and play the original Modern Warfare, (COD4) you’ll see that it plays very similar to the current COD titles out now.
> > >
> > > And do you know what the most hated COD game is, that’s right, Advanced Warfare, the game that tried to screw with the base mechanics and ended up being widely hated because of how different the movement mechanics were.
> > >
> > > Also in addition to Doom there are several other popular sprintless FPS games out now which are very successful, in particular Overwatch, CS GO, and to a lesser extend TF2. This has already been brought up countless times.
> >
> > CoD has come up with its own ideas, which is why Infinite Warfare, Advanced Warfare, and Black Ops 3 exist, right? Those games all followed trends, made a -Yoink- ton of money, and fell off the following year when the new CoD was launched.
> >
> > Black Ops 4 removed the campaign completely, included specialists once again to throw off any semblance of balance you get in MP, and it still sold like hot cakes. And all the “soft reboot” of Modern Warfare is, again, another game where the russians are bad guys, somethings wrong in the middle east, but this time we have a battle royale that is unbalanced as well as your standard MP. CoD never does anything “innovative” or unique, and it consistently sells.
> >
> > Popular is a loaded term, how would you define it? As I mentioned previously, Doom 2016 sold 2 million units on PC in 1 year, from May 2016 to July 2017. Halo 5 sold 5 million copies in 3 months. What do you think the publisher prefers? CS:GO, has never had actual competition on PC until Valorant, so how is it fair to compare that to Halo? And in what world does Overwatch equate to an FPS? I suppose playing as Reinhardt means you shoot his hammer at people?
>
> At the end of the day Cod’s consistend albeit repetative formula is successful because despite following some trends it maintains it’s key features. The most hated COD games are those which abandoned features or added ones that didn’t work with COD’s formula.
>
> All COD games may be financially successful, but they clearly aren’t all equal, some are clearly more liked and hated than others. Also it is more difficult to guage how popular a COD game is simply because of the way that they are released annually.
>
> Why are we only counting PC sales for DOOM? That’s downright dishonest seeing as the game is available on multiple platforms, and either way it shows that a game without sprint can be beloved and sell millions of copies even today.
>
> The comparison with Halo and CS:GO is simply one of movement mechanics, I realize that they are very different games, but once again the comparison is meant to show how a sprintless FPS can be popular. How has CS:GO never had competition until Valorant? Just because nothing was exactly the same doesn’t mean it didn’t have competition.
>
> Lastly Reinhardt is hardly the only character who shoots in Overwatch, it may not be the most pure FPS but it most certainly has characters who shoot and only one sprints.

One CoD game dropped the campaign entirely and still sold millions of copies. If that is abandoning features, I dont know what is. Halo’s “key features” are subjective, as are CoDs. If you want to talk golden triangle, Bungie did away with that in Reach. If you want to start even playing field on spawn, Bungie did away with that in reach through loadouts. Halo 5 does both of those points better than Reach, but we still argue about it. At the end of the day, CoD games are popular, and millions of people flock to it no matter what is cut or changed.

We are counting sales on its preferred platform because Halo is only available on one platform? Doom is mostly popular on PC, so I counted PC sales. If you want to be complete, it had apparently also sold 2 million copies on PS4. Xbox numbers are unknown, but that hardly instills confidence. Halo 5 was more successful and apparently half the hardcore fanbase hates it, so why should 343 go sprintless? Lets assume the Xbox numbers are half the PS4, as thats what the install base is. That means DOOM 2016 took 1 year to sell 5 million copies, and Halo 5 did it in 3 months. I wouldnt go sprintless if I was making a game.

Like I mentioned previously, CS:GO has a speed above Base Movement Speed. Knife speed, also doable with C4, allows you to traverse the map quicker BUT you dont have your gun available. Sounds kind of like sprint to me.

Your other examples are fine, but we need to drop the Overwatch one. The games play nothing alike, are in completely different genres, and focus on a lot more than just shooting and movement. I havent played much Overwatch, but I can say that in Paladins, the F2P version, you have a mount that you can use to traverse the map quickly, but at the expense of combat readiness. A lot of games have this feature.

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> Ok so can I say that Halo shouldnt have guns because League of Legends doesnt use guns for all its characters and its still one of the most popular games in the world? Maybe Halo should become a MOBA.

This is your argument not mine.

> Compare games to like games, dont come in here and mention CS:GO and Overwatch as examples of what Halo needs. CS:GO, as a fact, has knife speed, which in simplified terms, allows you to move around the map faster while removing your ability to shoot back. Isnt that one of your pet peeves with sprint?

So its bad to use other games without sprint to demonstrate why sprint isn’t necessary for a shooter, but we just have to follow the trends of other shooters that play nothing like Halo in order to succeed? I thought we were supposed to compare “like games”

CSGO doesn’t have “knife speed” all weapons you holding affect your movement speed, its a fundamentally different system and I certainly don’t think your average player is going to say that CSGO has sprint. So if the specific sprint mechanic is so necessary for a game to succeed in the modern era CSGO should be dead, so should Overwatch. Overwatch BTW is a pretty traditional FPS, its Team Fortress 2 with more classes.

> Doom is not a mass-market shooter, and thats what the sales show. Doom 2016 sold 2 million copies in 1 year on PC, H5 sold 5 million copies in 3 months. One is apparently a successful game, the other is apparently the worst game ever, a disgrace to Halo, etc.

Doom is a critically and commercially successful game that has a fast pace without sprint, just like CSGO and Overwatch, that is the entire point. Halo 5 is also successful by normal standards, but by Halo standards it is a noticable decline clearly apeing trends hasn’t Halo grow or even remain stable.

> Finally, its just disingenuous to not look at the fact that before CoD 4, there was no FPS game that could actually compete with Halo.

What is really disingenuous is to pretend that “competition” didn’t exist before CoD4 while also pretending that Halo 3 wasn’t neck and neck with that game for years. Exactly how long is it supposed to take for folks to realize what they really didn’t enjoy Halo as much as they thought they did?

> There were numerous WW2 games like Battlefield, Call of Duty, and Medal of Honour, but people were pretty sick of playing the same war over and over again in different games.

Halo had no competition, except all this competition which was doing something fundamentally different from Halo. By your logic Halo should have been a WWII shooter since that was popular at the time.

> Suddenly, they were given a game with real life weapons, a story very much related to current events, and a multiplayer experience that made you LOOK and FEEL like how the military is portrayed in the news every day. If you cant understand why that appealed more to casual gamers than a green armored marine shooting blue guys with glowing blue grenades, I cant help you.

Its almost like different people like different things. Or that even casual gamers can like more than one thing at a time. This is why Halo 3 is remembered as a massive multiplayer flop because once CoD4 came out the multiplayer immediately died. I guess CoD4 also invented the contemporary setting, who knew?

“The popular game you liked doesn’t actually appeal to the masses despite all evidence to the contrary”
Y’all literally can’t stop trying to make us doubt our own reality can you? Its frankly kinda gross at this point. Its not enough to say “I enjoy sprint for X reasons and I want it to stay” it has to also be that there are some “Actually the game you enjoy was only popular because you literally had no other choice.”

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> > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
>
> I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
>
> How does it not have much competition now?
> It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.

Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.

There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.

You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.

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> The pick up thing is ultra lame if it the case,really hope all the abilities will be permanent like in halo 5

Please go back to fortnite zoomer.

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> > > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
> >
> > I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
> >
> > How does it not have much competition now?
> > It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> > If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.
>
> Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
>
> There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
>
> You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.

The halo 5 player base nosedived while halo 3 was successful for 3 years. You keep moving the goalposts because you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong.

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> So its bad to use other games without sprint to demonstrate why sprint isn’t necessary for a shooter, but we just have to follow the trends of other shooters that play nothing like Halo in order to succeed? I thought we were supposed to compare "like games"CSGO doesn’t have “knife speed” all weapons you holding affect your movement speed, its a fundamentally different system and I certainly don’t think your average player is going to say that CSGO has sprint. So if the specific sprint mechanic is so necessary for a game to succeed in the modern era CSGO should be dead, so should Overwatch. Overwatch BTW is a pretty traditional FPS, its Team Fortress 2 with more classes

Compare Halo to Titanfall, Destiny, Battlefield, Call of Duty, and other games that actually directly compete for a consumer looking to get his FPS fix. No one buys Overwatch for their FPS fix, same with CS:GO.

Yes CS:GO does have a knife speed. All weapons make you move at different speeds, but the knife is a global melee tool, and it has its own unique move speed. As an example, you could equip a weapon with 220 units/second and then have your knife, which allows you to move at 250 units/second. You can choose to move around the map with your weapon out, and move at 220, or move around the map with your knife, at 250. Its a movement tool used by almost everyone who plays the game, and its done for a specific purpose.

> Doom is a critically and commercially successful game that has a fast pace without sprint, just like CSGO and Overwatch, that is the entire point. Halo 5 is also successful by normal standards, but by Halo standards it is a noticable decline clearly apeing trends hasn’t Halo grow or even remain stable.

Noticeable decline on what basis? Halo standards are all over the place. Id argue Halo was in a decline right after Halo 3, and we are at a point that we are still doing better than games like Doom. Similar critical reviews, more sales, so why use them as a baseline? Maybe, the big difference in sales is because of sprint (sarcasm).

> What is really disingenuous is to pretend that “competition” didn’t exist before CoD4 while also pretending that Halo 3 wasn’t neck and neck with that game for years. Exactly how long is it supposed to take for folks to realize what they really didn’t enjoy Halo as much as they thought they did?

If the competition isnt up to standard, is it worth comparing? If you play a professional sport, is there any reason to compare yourself to a highschooler? If that highschooler turns out to be Lebron James, enters the league and starts winning everything, maybe its time to take notice? Also, I wouldnt argue that Halo 3 was neck and neck. Weekly Xbox Live reports from Major Nelson show that Cod 4 actually led Xbox Live in number of UU’s. And the numbers get worse after Modern Warfare 2. There was no major FPS to compete with Halo before Call of Duty, and certainly none with the multiplayer focus or established base from previous gen. Where did that establishment go after CoD 4 and MW2 came out?

> Halo had no competition, except all this competition which was doing something fundamentally different from Halo. By your logic Halo should have been a WWII shooter since that was popular at the time.

Youve missed the point by a mile. Those games were never popular, thats the issue. My logic is not that Halo must copy all trends, but must realize why people identify with Call of Duty so much they will buy a version of it every year. If youd prefer Halo to stay the same until it dies, then thats fine. Some people prefer perfect Halo to decent Halo. I prefer having Halo to no Halo.

> Its almost like different people like different things. Or that even casual gamers can like more than one thing at a time. This is why Halo 3 is remembered as a massive multiplayer flop because once CoD4 came out the multiplayer immediately died. I guess CoD4 also invented the contemporary setting, who knew?“The popular game you liked doesn’t actually appeal to the masses despite all evidence to the contrary”
> Y’all literally can’t stop trying to make us doubt our own reality can you? Its frankly kinda gross at this point. Its not enough to say “I enjoy sprint for X reasons and I want it to stay” it has to also be that there are some “Actually the game you enjoy was only popular because you literally had no other choice.”

If it truly appealed to the masses, it would’ve stayed on top of the Weekly XBL charts after Call of Duty came out. Im not trying to tell you why YOU like Halo 3. Im trying to tell you why it had such a large number of sales and players when it launched on Xbox.

People try and attribute the fall of Halo to changing mechanics. Others, like myself, will argue that is it the exodus of the mass-market, the casual gamer, that caused Halo to become less popular. The solution to the issue depends on views of the problem. If you think a large portion of that H2/H3 player base was casual gamers, you’d need to incorporate some ideas into Halo to try and bring them back. If you think a small portion of that H2/H3 player base was casuals who left, then you must wonder why the others stopped playing. My points of view are this: Halo did not have much competition on its way to the top of the FPS genre. Once it arrived there, it maintained position for some time until CoD came along. If adding something like sprint or clamber is going to bring some of those who left back into the game, then I will gladly learn how to use it to my advantage in multiplayer.

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> > > > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
> > >
> > > I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
> > >
> > > How does it not have much competition now?
> > > It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> > > If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.
> >
> > Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
> >
> > There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
> >
> > You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.
>
> The halo 5 player base nosedived while halo 3 was successful for 3 years. You keep moving the goalposts because you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong.

How exactly does any of this constitute moving the goalposts, or even refute my points?

Halo 3 was consistently lower than CoD 4 and MW2 in weekly Xbox Live charts, despite being the more popular game. Now that there is considerable more competition within the genre, people are playing the game less. Its a logical move forward from what happened with H3?

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> > > > > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
> > > >
> > > > I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
> > > >
> > > > How does it not have much competition now?
> > > > It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> > > > If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.
> > >
> > > Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
> > >
> > > There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
> > >
> > > You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.
> >
> > The halo 5 player base nosedived while halo 3 was successful for 3 years. You keep moving the goalposts because you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong.
>
> How exactly does any of this constitute moving the goalposts, or even refute my points?
>
> Halo 3 was consistently lower than CoD 4 and MW2 in weekly Xbox Live charts, despite being the more popular game. Now that there is considerable more competition within the genre, people are playing the game less. Its a logical move forward from what happened with H3?

Halo 3 had the highest playercount overall and 4 and 5 had the lowest. You keep being like oh this game doesn’t count because it’s ww2 or this game doesn’t count because it wasn’t established. People like you are delusional and refuse to admit that they are wrong. It doesn’t matter how much evidence people give you because you will keep changing what counts as a success to prove your point.

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> > > > > > > One big issue with the comparisons between Halo’s playerbase with classic movement and modern movement is it never takes into account the state of the Xbox brand at the time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Halo CE - The start of Xbox
> > > > > > > Halo 2 - Xbox is big
> > > > > > > Halo 3 - Xbox is even bigger
> > > > > > > Halo Reach - Xbox is a platform focusing on Kinect because the Wii was huge
> > > > > > > Halo 4 - Xbox is focusing even more on Kinect
> > > > > > > Halo MCC - Xbox’s popularity massively dropped because of Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > > > > > > Halo 5 - Xbox’s popularity still hasn’t recovered from Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But thats assuming that the Xbox brand will ever be able to capture that magic again. You also have to consider the changing times of gaming. Halo 5 was absolutely a product of its time, and while this style of movement was popular in 2015, it may not be popular 5 years later in 2020. We live in a world where DOOM 2016 was a success and the mainstream FPS games have moved back to more classical styles of gameplay, one of which was the most successful game in the franchise ever (Modern Warfare).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On top of that, you also have to consider whether Microsoft considers those games failures (most publishers consider 5 million in sales to be insufficient these days), and if they instead want to pivot Halo’s direction to attempt to recapture the magic of when Halo was successful. Pumping money into a project that appears to be a failure in most respects, with said failure potentially being blamed on the massive change in how Halo plays, makes zero business sense.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Final point, the Xbox Series X isn’t out yet, so we can’t really gague whether people are still interested in Xbox as a platform. We’d have to wait and see, to be honest.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the key point missing here is, lets take into account the state of FPS games during Halos lifetime. Between H3 and H:Reach is where CoD takes off, and thats arguably the biggest FPS game on the planet. All CoD has ever done is follow trends, and they consistently smash sales records and attract new players.
> > > >
> > > > That’s not actually true though, COD actually has come up with some of it’s own ideas, but for the most part it has continued to stick with it’s base mechanics. Go ahead and play the original Modern Warfare, (COD4) you’ll see that it plays very similar to the current COD titles out now.
> > > >
> > > > And do you know what the most hated COD game is, that’s right, Advanced Warfare, the game that tried to screw with the base mechanics and ended up being widely hated because of how different the movement mechanics were.
> > > >
> > > > Also in addition to Doom there are several other popular sprintless FPS games out now which are very successful, in particular Overwatch, CS GO, and to a lesser extend TF2. This has already been brought up countless times.

> One CoD game dropped the campaign entirely and still sold millions of copies. If that is abandoning features, I dont know what is.

Like I already said, it might have sold well but at the same time it was less liked because of this decision, I prefer getting a complete game over making money.

> Halo’s “key features” are subjective, as are CoDs. If you want to talk golden triangle, Bungie did away with that in Reach. If you want to start even playing field on spawn, Bungie did away with that in reach through loadouts. Halo 5 does both of those points better than Reach, but we still argue about it.

You’re absolutely right, equal starts, and the Golden Triangle are both key features of Halo, and Reach did do away with them first. But I’m not holding up Reach as some kind of template for Halo Infinite. Halo 5 might have done these things better than Reach, but at the same time it ruined other key features even worse than Reach did such as guns always being up, and the continued absense of duel weilding, and playable elites. I’m not willing to forgive Halo 5’s failing just because they started in Reach.

> At the end of the day, CoD games are popular, and millions of people flock to it no matter what is cut or changed.

But once again, they aren’t all equally popular or highly rated.

> We are counting sales on its preferred platform because Halo is only available on one platform? Doom is mostly popular on PC, so I counted PC sales. If you want to be complete, it had apparently also sold 2 million copies on PS4. Xbox numbers are unknown, but that hardly instills confidence. Halo 5 was more successful and apparently half the hardcore fanbase hates it, so why should 343 go sprintless?

Because it sold significantly worse than the classic Halo games, and both Halo 4 and 5 saw massive dropoffs in their player populations shortly after they were released while the classic Halo’s retained their’s for years. Doom and the other games I shared simply show that sprint and certain other “advanced” movement mechanics are not at all necessary for a modern game to sell and be beloved. And that’s another thing, Doom was loved by pretty much everybody who played it, whilst Halo 5 was extremely divisive.

> Like I mentioned previously, CS:GO has a speed above Base Movement Speed. Knife speed, also doable with C4, allows you to traverse the map quicker BUT you dont have your gun available. Sounds kind of like sprint to me.

Really? That’s doesn’t sound like sprint to me at all. It doesn’t lock you into an animation, while disabling your ability to use your equiptment and weapons, on the contrary you can use both C4 and the knife while maintaining your high speed.

By that same logic Halo 3 must have sprint because your character moves slower when carrying the mounted machine gun and plasma cannon.

> Your other examples are fine, but we need to drop the Overwatch one. The games play nothing alike, are in completely different genres, and focus on a lot more than just shooting and movement.

They may be different, but they do share many things in common too, you’re just trying to create arbitrary guidelines to prevent people from comparing games because it hurts your arguments.

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> > > > > > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
> > > > >
> > > > > How does it not have much competition now?
> > > > > It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> > > > > If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.
> > > >
> > > > Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
> > > >
> > > > There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
> > > >
> > > > You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.
> > >
> > > The halo 5 player base nosedived while halo 3 was successful for 3 years. You keep moving the goalposts because you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong.
> >
> > How exactly does any of this constitute moving the goalposts, or even refute my points?
> >
> > Halo 3 was consistently lower than CoD 4 and MW2 in weekly Xbox Live charts, despite being the more popular game. Now that there is considerable more competition within the genre, people are playing the game less. Its a logical move forward from what happened with H3?
>
> Halo 3 had the highest playercount overall and 4 and 5 had the lowest. You keep being like oh this game doesn’t count because it’s ww2 or this game doesn’t count because it wasn’t established. People like you are delusional and refuse to admit that they are wrong. It doesn’t matter how much evidence people give you because you will keep changing what counts as a success to prove your point.

Highest overall playercount is what you are looking for? Then Halo needs to mimic Call of Duty, as no matter what is changed, removed, or added, it consistently beats Halo in playercount.

The Ford Model T was once the most successful car ever, outselling all other cars for years. Ford should go back to that, so that they get all those sales back. Numbers without context are meaningless, and calling people delusional in a forum where you have provided no rationale for your arguments is actually just funny.

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> > > > > > > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How does it not have much competition now?
> > > > > > It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> > > > > > If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
> > > > >
> > > > > There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.
> > > >
> > > > The halo 5 player base nosedived while halo 3 was successful for 3 years. You keep moving the goalposts because you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong.
> > >
> > > How exactly does any of this constitute moving the goalposts, or even refute my points?
> > >
> > > Halo 3 was consistently lower than CoD 4 and MW2 in weekly Xbox Live charts, despite being the more popular game. Now that there is considerable more competition within the genre, people are playing the game less. Its a logical move forward from what happened with H3?
> >
> > Halo 3 had the highest playercount overall and 4 and 5 had the lowest. You keep being like oh this game doesn’t count because it’s ww2 or this game doesn’t count because it wasn’t established. People like you are delusional and refuse to admit that they are wrong. It doesn’t matter how much evidence people give you because you will keep changing what counts as a success to prove your point.
>
> Highest overall playercount is what you are looking for? Then Halo needs to mimic Call of Duty, as no matter what is changed, removed, or added, it consistently beats Halo in playercount.
>
> The Ford Model T was once the most successful car ever, outselling all other cars for years. Ford should go back to that, so that they get all those sales back. Numbers without context are meaningless, and calling people delusional in a forum where you have provided no rationale for your arguments is actually just funny.

Also saying that halo is only successfully because it has no competition is like saying Star Wars is only successful because it had no competition

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> 2535441307847473;4152:
> > Like I mentioned previously, CS:GO has a speed above Base Movement Speed. Knife speed, also doable with C4, allows you to traverse the map quicker BUT you dont have your gun available. Sounds kind of like sprint to me.
>
> Really? That’s doesn’t sound like sprint to me at all. It doesn’t lock you into an animation, while disabling your ability to use your equiptment and weapons, on the contrary you can use both C4 and the knife while maintaining your high speed.
>
> By that same logic Halo 3 must have sprint because your character moves slower when carrying the mounted machine gun and plasma cannon.

There already is a mechanic like this at play. The energy sword. You move faster while wielding it. But, just like in any arena shooter, it’s a power weapon that you have to pick up in the map, not something available off of spawn.

You can also move in all directions with the knife out in CS, as opposed to only forward direction with sprint

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> > > > > > > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How does it not have much competition now?
> > > > > > It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> > > > > > If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
> > > > >
> > > > > There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.
> > > >
> > > > The halo 5 player base nosedived while halo 3 was successful for 3 years. You keep moving the goalposts because you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong.
> > >
> > > How exactly does any of this constitute moving the goalposts, or even refute my points?
> > >
> > > Halo 3 was consistently lower than CoD 4 and MW2 in weekly Xbox Live charts, despite being the more popular game. Now that there is considerable more competition within the genre, people are playing the game less. Its a logical move forward from what happened with H3?
> >
> > Halo 3 had the highest playercount overall and 4 and 5 had the lowest. You keep being like oh this game doesn’t count because it’s ww2 or this game doesn’t count because it wasn’t established. People like you are delusional and refuse to admit that they are wrong. It doesn’t matter how much evidence people give you because you will keep changing what counts as a success to prove your point.
>
> Highest overall playercount is what you are looking for? Then Halo needs to mimic Call of Duty, as no matter what is changed, removed, or added, it consistently beats Halo in playercount.
>
> The Ford Model T was once the most successful car ever, outselling all other cars for years. Ford should go back to that, so that they get all those sales back. Numbers without context are meaningless, and calling people delusional in a forum where you have provided no rationale for your arguments is actually just funny.

They tried this when screwing up the formula and all it did was alienate their core audience! The gains they made by bringing in new people paled in comparison to what was lost. Halo never should have abandoned its identity. It should have done what Halo 2 did from Combat Evolved and Halo 3 did from Halo 2: evolve from its roots! You don’t rip the whole tree out from the roots and expect it to still grow, do you?

4157

so many using statics, biases, facts… but reality is Halo is not the draw it once was. today is not yesterday. the rest is speculation and i’ll safely assume neither classic or current movement will change the course of Halo’s popularity. Halo Infinite should do ok and i bet it will reverse course back to H2/3 classic movement, but i hope 343i is smart and has a back up plan in place to undo the back slide and update the game back to current movement standards when/if it’s made apparent that classic movement can’t bring home the bacon

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> 2535441307847473;4152:
> Like I already said, it might have sold well but at the same time it was less liked because of this decision, I prefer getting a complete game over making money.

This has no basis on the argument besides the fact that CoD consistently changes and cuts features and retains sales. Its not about what you prefer, its about what works.

> You’re absolutely right, equal starts, and the Golden Triangle are both key features of Halo, and Reach did do away with them first. But I’m not holding up Reach as some kind of template for Halo Infinite. Halo 5 might have done these things better than Reach, but at the same time it ruined other key features even worse than Reach did such as guns always being up, and the continued absense of duel weilding, and playable elites. I’m not willing to forgive Halo 5’s failing just because they started in Reach.

Youre missing my point. I mentioned that Halo’s “core gameplay” is subjective. All Im trying to point out is how so many different Halo games have done away with some aspects that the community holds as “core gameplay”. I dont really like equipment, and Im not sure it fits into the golden triangle. That was in Halo 3. I dont also agree with the Golden Triangle as a concept, and apparently neither does Bungie, as they went ahead and made Destiny.

> Because it sold significantly worse than the classic Halo games, and both Halo 4 and 5 saw massive dropoffs in their player populations shortly after they were released while the classic Halo’s retained their’s for years. Doom and the other games I shared simply show that sprint and certain other “advanced” movement mechanics are not at all necessary for a modern game to sell and be beloved. And that’s another thing, Doom was loved by pretty much everybody who played it, whilst Halo 5 was extremely divisive.

I dont want to touch on this again, but sales and retained players as singular figures are meaningless without context. In my opinion, Halo’s success, both in retaining players and overall sales, had more to do with the lack of solid FPS competition and the sheer number of quality games available right now. Its all about how people wanted to spend their time.

In regards to Doom, yes I see that it can work, but the sales numbers show otherwise. If you want the Halo population to be like Doom’s, power to you. Id prefer it be larger. Ill say the numbers again. 2 million units on PC after 1 year, Halo 5 does 5 million in 3 months.

> But once again, they aren’t all equally popular or highly rated.

They are all more monetarily successful.

> Really? That’s doesn’t sound like sprint to me at all. It doesn’t lock you into an animation, while disabling your ability to use your equiptment and weapons, on the contrary you can use both C4 and the knife while maintaining your high speed.By that same logic Halo 3 must have sprint because your character moves slower when carrying the mounted machine gun and plasma cannon.

Skip to 1:30 to see what Sprint can doHaving the knife out does restrict your ability to use weapons, and C4 speed is still marginally (I believe 5 units) slower than knife speed. In Halo 5, you get momentum from sprint which can be transferred into Spartan Charge, enhanced jumps, as well as the ability to launch yourself off surfaces in the map. Cant tell if you’re being disingenuous or genuine, so ill bold it out.

You can move through the map faster, but you cannot shoot back. Applies to both sprint and knife speed.

The part about the turret makes it seem like your being disingenuous, but I can give you benefit of the doubt.

> They may be different, but they do share many things in common too, you’re just trying to create arbitrary guidelines to prevent people from comparing games because it hurts your arguments.

Overwatch is not a traditional FPS. If you want to argue that people buy Overwatch to get their traditional shooter fix in the vein of Call of Duty and Battlefield, then I just happen to disagree with you. Unfortunately, there is no way to solve this argument. A hero shooter with MOBA roles doesnt sound like something someone sits down and considers when deciding what to buy between Call of Duty and Battlefield

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> > > > > > > > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How does it not have much competition now?
> > > > > > > It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> > > > > > > If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.
> > > > >
> > > > > The halo 5 player base nosedived while halo 3 was successful for 3 years. You keep moving the goalposts because you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong.
> > > >
> > > > How exactly does any of this constitute moving the goalposts, or even refute my points?
> > > >
> > > > Halo 3 was consistently lower than CoD 4 and MW2 in weekly Xbox Live charts, despite being the more popular game. Now that there is considerable more competition within the genre, people are playing the game less. Its a logical move forward from what happened with H3?
> > >
> > > Halo 3 had the highest playercount overall and 4 and 5 had the lowest. You keep being like oh this game doesn’t count because it’s ww2 or this game doesn’t count because it wasn’t established. People like you are delusional and refuse to admit that they are wrong. It doesn’t matter how much evidence people give you because you will keep changing what counts as a success to prove your point.
> >
> > Highest overall playercount is what you are looking for? Then Halo needs to mimic Call of Duty, as no matter what is changed, removed, or added, it consistently beats Halo in playercount.
> >
> > The Ford Model T was once the most successful car ever, outselling all other cars for years. Ford should go back to that, so that they get all those sales back. Numbers without context are meaningless, and calling people delusional in a forum where you have provided no rationale for your arguments is actually just funny.
>
> Also saying that halo is only successfully because it has no competition is like saying Star Wars is only successful because it had no competition

You are missing two points.

Halo WAS the MOST successful because it had no competition. I still consider it to be successful, and im sure Microsoft does too, otherwise they wouldnt keep making them.

Two.
Halo is Star Trek. Technical, actually science fiction, focusing on exploring space and race relations. Had a core fanbase, specific appeal. Was very popular on TV.
Star Wars is CoD. Space opera with politics, family drama, cool explosions, mass market appeal.

Full disclaimer: I am not a trekkie.

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> > > > > > > > How exactly does Halo have no competition now? My thoughts on Halo’s competition are that, when it was King of FPS’, there were not a lot of FPS availble on console for the average gamer. Just a bunch of WW2 games and Halo. That all changed with CoD 4, and new games followed suit, like Battlefield launching Bad Company in 2008, Medal of Honor’s reboot in 2010, etc. Now you have Titanfall, Destiny, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I like how it didn’t have any competition back then, because you remove anything with a big load of specific criteria meant to reduce what consitutes actual competition. Then again, maybe I’m some sort of special gamer who venture between genres, like, FPS, Third Person Shooters, RTSs, RPGs, beat ‘em ups and so forth, or between platforms, like PS, Xbox and PC.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How does it not have much competition now?
> > > > > > > It is so off all the big games’ radar that it barely register.
> > > > > > > If you’re at the top, there’s no competition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo barely registers now? 5 million copies sold in 3 months is barely registers? On Xbox, its still a popular FPS. It isnt going to beat CoD but I suspect its not too far off Battlefield or Destiny before F2P.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There were no household shooters when Halo was becoming big. If you had a PC you could play Doom or Quake, otherwise CoD/Battlefield/Medal of Honor all blurred into one another. Funnily enough, one of the biggest stories about the FPS genre is that EA forced Activisions hand in making CoD. After Medal of Honor Allied Assault came out, which was considered to be a successful FPS (900,000 copies in 4 years (2002-2006), only launched on PC), EA tried to buy the studio who made it. Vince Zampella, who co-founded Infinity Ward was working at that studio at the time, and after the forced takeover was initiated, left to Activision and formed IW. If 900,000 copies over 4 years is successful, what makes it comparable to Halo 1 or Halo 2? Halo 2 had 1.5 million copies PRE-ORDERED, and launched right in the middle of that Allied Assault window. Lets not pretend the household names of now like CoD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny were anything more than pipe dreams when Halo was peaking. It had no competition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You have a finite amount of dollars to spend, and some people need to choose between FPS games rather than get them all. Halo is competing with other games for customer dollars. It didnt have to do that when the biggest FPS next to it was Allied Assault. Call of Duty 2 as a launch game on Xbox 360 sold 250,000 units. These arent big games that everyone knows about.
> > > > >
> > > > > The halo 5 player base nosedived while halo 3 was successful for 3 years. You keep moving the goalposts because you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong.
> > > >
> > > > How exactly does any of this constitute moving the goalposts, or even refute my points?
> > > >
> > > > Halo 3 was consistently lower than CoD 4 and MW2 in weekly Xbox Live charts, despite being the more popular game. Now that there is considerable more competition within the genre, people are playing the game less. Its a logical move forward from what happened with H3?
> > >
> > > Halo 3 had the highest playercount overall and 4 and 5 had the lowest. You keep being like oh this game doesn’t count because it’s ww2 or this game doesn’t count because it wasn’t established. People like you are delusional and refuse to admit that they are wrong. It doesn’t matter how much evidence people give you because you will keep changing what counts as a success to prove your point.
> >
> > Highest overall playercount is what you are looking for? Then Halo needs to mimic Call of Duty, as no matter what is changed, removed, or added, it consistently beats Halo in playercount.
> >
> > The Ford Model T was once the most successful car ever, outselling all other cars for years. Ford should go back to that, so that they get all those sales back. Numbers without context are meaningless, and calling people delusional in a forum where you have provided no rationale for your arguments is actually just funny.
>
> They tried this when screwing up the formula and all it did was alienate their core audience! The gains they made by bringing in new people paled in comparison to what was lost. Halo never should have abandoned its identity. It should have done what Halo 2 did from Combat Evolved and Halo 3 did from Halo 2: evolve from its roots! You don’t rip the whole tree out from the roots and expect it to still grow, do you?

Im being sarcastic, but the point was just to talk about how sales numbers and playercounts are meaningless without context. And for the record, I think its fairly easy to trace where Halo 5 is to Halo CE. The roots are all there. Unfortunately, it goes through Reach. Whether you consider Reach to be a mainline game or some sort of experimental spin-off is where we lose people.

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> As long as they kept Sprint and thrusters I’ll be happy, I don’t want “complete” classic Halo it worked back then but now when I look back or play the old games the movement feels 2 slow, if they just keep Sprint and thrusters and even slide I’ll be happy because it’s not to advanced movement but it’s also not 2 slow and the skill gap will still be there like in Halo 5

Thrusters and slide is definitely advanced movement comon now lol