The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > > > > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> > > > >
> > > > > What’s your definition of a modern movement game? Because last time I checked most recent games that released in 2019-2020 are reverting back to their classic forms and ditching advance movements. Call of Duty being the biggest in 2019 removing everything Advance Warfare and BO3 did and Valorant being released last month and went to top of Twitch charts for most viewed and theres no advance movement in that either.
> > > >
> > > > Not to stir the pot too much, but won’t ‘following the trend’ of other games going back to ‘classic movement’ be just as great a ‘sin’ as ‘ruining the classic feel with the new trash’? As much as I enjoy the fast-feeling advanced movement of H5 and the challenge of tracking my opponents and the old-school kinetics, the complaints on both sides of the debate get tiresome. Everyone should just say their piece, then go play the playlists they feel is the ‘best’. Just my two cents.
> > >
> > > I mean… technically they followed the advance movement trend of the gaming industry with Halo 5. I don’t think them going back to classic movement would be following a trend but more so going back to the “golden era” of Halo, which theres a 206 page forum post on it. While I do agree the debates do get tiresome, this is a debate that decides the entire sandbox of the game. Its more than just a playlist.
> >
> > Don’t forget about that 836 page post on sprint that was active for like 3 or 4 years. This debate has went on for so long because of how much people want the old gameplay style back, myself included.
>
> I’m curious as to whether Infinite will kill this debate or not. Obviously there will still be passionate members of the community arguing against Sprint, but that would be three games in a row where 343 puts forward their vision for what Halo should be. I know for myself that if Infinite has Sprint, I’ll never buy it. 2 days worth of Halo 5 let’s me know that i won’t enjoy Infinite if it has the same or similar mechanics.

I think there will be less and less debate when Infinite is out (if it indeed does have sprint). Only so many og fans can leave before none are left.

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> > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> >
> > What’s your definition of a modern movement game? Because last time I checked most recent games that released in 2019-2020 are reverting back to their classic forms and ditching advance movements. Call of Duty being the biggest in 2019 removing everything Advance Warfare and BO3 did and Valorant being released last month and went to top of Twitch charts for most viewed and theres no advance movement in that either.
>
> Don’t you know you MUST have sprint to be a popular game? Look at popular shooters in the past like CS:GO, or Doom Eternal! Those games would just alienate their audience if they didn’t have sprint!

That a fair point I agree

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> > There is absolutely no way this game won’t have the classic gameplay the oldest of Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
>
> As long as ground pound, spartan charge aren’t there then I don’t mind as much but surely they should increase the movement speed instead of the sprint, not a fan of being slowed down to a half just because someone shot at me.

Yeah I agree and the sprint idea is great

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> > In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
>
> please not… if that’s the case then I’ll skip this one.

Yeah I don’t want full classic gameplay

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> In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
>
> EDIT: A few points that have already been thoroughly discussed, in favor of the removal of sprint, as said by commenters in this thread.
>
> 1. Just because sprint is not present does not mean the game is going to be slow. There are many ways to give the player a feeling of speed without the inclusion of sprint, such as higher field of view, smaller maps, or just an increase in the base movement speed.
> In terms of BTB-sized maps, the designers could be encouraged to implement more creative ways to traverse the map on foot, like the previously used teleporters, man-cannons, speed boosts, and vehicles, making each map far more unique than if they were all wide-open plains you simply run across to reach your destination. Sprint is arguably the laziest and least entertaining form of map traversal.
>
> 2. You can’t just split the game in half, with one ‘modern’ side that has enhanced mobility and a ‘classic’ side that does not. the difference between the two are far too large to reuse any assets, there would have to be separate maps, extensively tweaked weapons and enemies, and much more. The massive differences essentially create two games in one, and 343 would not be able to support either side enough to satisfy both.
> That being said, you also can’t create a game around Spartan Abilities and then provide a little playlist that just doesn’t have them. The balancing of the game around the enhanced movement will not flow smoothly if they just removed the abilities, when explosion radii are balanced around players thrusting out of the way, and tracking weapons to more strongly track to counter constant movement.
>
> 3. Sprint isn’t required to make an FPS in this day and age successful. Common examples of popular games without sprint include DOOM, Counterstrike, and Overwatch.
>
> 4. “Go play MCC if you want classic movement” is an invalid argument, because those in favor of its return could just as easily tell their opponents to go play Halo 5 if they want advanced movement.
>
> 5. The removal of sprint does not necessarily mean the game will be “dumbed down” from its predecessors and strip options from the player. It would, in fact, add more options, since one can now attack and move at max speed in all directions at all times. Sprint forces the player to choose whether to move or to shoot, when both areas of gameplay could be easily united if sprint is removed.
>
> 6. To expand on point 5., removing sprint does not mean we want another Halo 3 in terms of movement. New mechanics can be implemented, as long as it doesn’t result in separation of movement and attacks. Thrust is generally friendly to the ‘guns always up’ philosophy, and many in this thread wouldn’t mind seeing its return.
>
> 7. Sprint does not need to be present in the game just because Spartans have sprinted in the canon and expanded universe. Spartans have also been shown to run at full speed while still being able to shoot, as seen in a repeatedly-referenced Halo Legends episode. Excusing sprint for the sake of canonical consistency could also lead to the inclusion of many other abilities that stray even further from the original gameplay formula, all for the sole purpose of ‘feeling like a Spartan’.

I wouldn’t say high chance but a small one 343 loves competition and that’s what they focused in 5 mostly

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Seeing as how Chief has a grapple hook on his hand in the box art, I dont think we are going back to classic gameplay (not that I would prefer too either, I quite enjoy Halo 5s movement).

What I do think we will see is a toned down version of H5, possibly everything returns except Ground Pound and Spartan Charge (seeing as thats what is removed for competitive play), and then various pick-up abilities a la Halo Reach like Grappling Hook, Jetpack, etc.

I wouldnt necessarily count Overwatch as a game that succeeds without sprint seeing as its not a traditional FPS, and Doom isnt really a mass-market shooter. Counter Strike is a fine example but it has had a very steady and consistent player base from the beginning, out of genuine interest. No offense to Halo, as can be seen by me spending time on the forums, but it was likely “King of Shooters” due to lack of competition rather than being a game that everyone genuinely enjoyed.

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> > 2533274848051892;4112:
> > One big issue with the comparisons between Halo’s playerbase with classic movement and modern movement is it never takes into account the state of the Xbox brand at the time.
> >
> > Halo CE - The start of Xbox
> > Halo 2 - Xbox is big
> > Halo 3 - Xbox is even bigger
> > Halo Reach - Xbox is a platform focusing on Kinect because the Wii was huge
> > Halo 4 - Xbox is focusing even more on Kinect
> > Halo MCC - Xbox’s popularity massively dropped because of Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > Halo 5 - Xbox’s popularity still hasn’t recovered from Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> >
> > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
>
> But thats assuming that the Xbox brand will ever be able to capture that magic again. You also have to consider the changing times of gaming. Halo 5 was absolutely a product of its time, and while this style of movement was popular in 2015, it may not be popular 5 years later in 2020. We live in a world where DOOM 2016 was a success and the mainstream FPS games have moved back to more classical styles of gameplay, one of which was the most successful game in the franchise ever (Modern Warfare).
>
> On top of that, you also have to consider whether Microsoft considers those games failures (most publishers consider 5 million in sales to be insufficient these days), and if they instead want to pivot Halo’s direction to attempt to recapture the magic of when Halo was successful. Pumping money into a project that appears to be a failure in most respects, with said failure potentially being blamed on the massive change in how Halo plays, makes zero business sense.
>
> Final point, the Xbox Series X isn’t out yet, so we can’t really gague whether people are still interested in Xbox as a platform. We’d have to wait and see, to be honest.

What makes Doom 2016 a success? All I am reading is 2 million in sales over 1 year on PC. Didnt Halo 5 do 5 million in 3 months?

I think the key point missing here is, lets take into account the state of FPS games during Halos lifetime. Between H3 and H:Reach is where CoD takes off, and thats arguably the biggest FPS game on the planet. All CoD has ever done is follow trends, and they consistently smash sales records and attract new players.

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> I wouldnt necessarily count Overwatch as a game that succeeds without sprint seeing as its not a traditional FPS, and Doom isnt really a mass-market shooter. Counter Strike is a fine example but it has had a very steady and consistent player base from the beginning, out of genuine interest. No offense to Halo, as can be seen by me spending time on the forums, but it was likely “King of Shooters” due to lack of competition rather than being a game that everyone genuinely enjoyed.

Y’all really don’t even realize how you sound do you?
“Actually, the games you enjoy weren’t really that good or popular, you just didn’t know any better.”
“All the examples that support your argument don’t count because reasons”

You can say “no offense” all you want its still gaslighting nonsense.

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> > > One big issue with the comparisons between Halo’s playerbase with classic movement and modern movement is it never takes into account the state of the Xbox brand at the time.
> > >
> > > Halo CE - The start of Xbox
> > > Halo 2 - Xbox is big
> > > Halo 3 - Xbox is even bigger
> > > Halo Reach - Xbox is a platform focusing on Kinect because the Wii was huge
> > > Halo 4 - Xbox is focusing even more on Kinect
> > > Halo MCC - Xbox’s popularity massively dropped because of Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > > Halo 5 - Xbox’s popularity still hasn’t recovered from Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > >
> > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> >
> > But thats assuming that the Xbox brand will ever be able to capture that magic again. You also have to consider the changing times of gaming. Halo 5 was absolutely a product of its time, and while this style of movement was popular in 2015, it may not be popular 5 years later in 2020. We live in a world where DOOM 2016 was a success and the mainstream FPS games have moved back to more classical styles of gameplay, one of which was the most successful game in the franchise ever (Modern Warfare).
> >
> > On top of that, you also have to consider whether Microsoft considers those games failures (most publishers consider 5 million in sales to be insufficient these days), and if they instead want to pivot Halo’s direction to attempt to recapture the magic of when Halo was successful. Pumping money into a project that appears to be a failure in most respects, with said failure potentially being blamed on the massive change in how Halo plays, makes zero business sense.
> >
> > Final point, the Xbox Series X isn’t out yet, so we can’t really gague whether people are still interested in Xbox as a platform. We’d have to wait and see, to be honest.
>
> I think the key point missing here is, lets take into account the state of FPS games during Halos lifetime. Between H3 and H:Reach is where CoD takes off, and thats arguably the biggest FPS game on the planet. All CoD has ever done is follow trends, and they consistently smash sales records and attract new players.

That’s not actually true though, COD actually has come up with some of it’s own ideas, but for the most part it has continued to stick with it’s base mechanics. Go ahead and play the original Modern Warfare, (COD4) you’ll see that it plays very similar to the current COD titles out now.

And do you know what the most hated COD game is, that’s right, Advanced Warfare, the game that tried to screw with the base mechanics and ended up being widely hated because of how different the movement mechanics were.

Also in addition to Doom there are several other popular sprintless FPS games out now which are very successful, in particular Overwatch, CS GO, and to a lesser extend TF2. This has already been brought up countless times.

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> > I wouldnt necessarily count Overwatch as a game that succeeds without sprint seeing as its not a traditional FPS, and Doom isnt really a mass-market shooter. Counter Strike is a fine example but it has had a very steady and consistent player base from the beginning, out of genuine interest. No offense to Halo, as can be seen by me spending time on the forums, but it was likely “King of Shooters” due to lack of competition rather than being a game that everyone genuinely enjoyed.
>
> Y’all really don’t even realize how you sound do you?
> “Actually, the games you enjoy weren’t really that good or popular, you just didn’t know any better.”
> “All the examples that support your argument don’t count because reasons”
>
> You can say “no offense” all you want its still gaslighting nonsense.

Ok so can I say that Halo shouldnt have guns because League of Legends doesnt use guns for all its characters and its still one of the most popular games in the world? Maybe Halo should become a MOBA. Compare games to like games, dont come in here and mention CS:GO and Overwatch as examples of what Halo needs. CS:GO, as a fact, has knife speed, which in simplified terms, allows you to move around the map faster while removing your ability to shoot back. Isnt that one of your pet peeves with sprint?

Doom is not a mass-market shooter, and thats what the sales show. Doom 2016 sold 2 million copies in 1 year on PC, H5 sold 5 million copies in 3 months. One is apparently a successful game, the other is apparently the worst game ever, a disgrace to Halo, etc.

Finally, its just disingenuous to not look at the fact that before CoD 4, there was no FPS game that could actually compete with Halo. There were numerous WW2 games like Battlefield, Call of Duty, and Medal of Honour, but people were pretty sick of playing the same war over and over again in different games. Suddenly, they were given a game with real life weapons, a story very much related to current events, and a multiplayer experience that made you LOOK and FEEL like how the military is portrayed in the news every day. If you cant understand why that appealed more to casual gamers than a green armored marine shooting blue guys with glowing blue grenades, I cant help you.

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> Ok so can I say that Halo shouldnt have guns because League of Legends doesnt use guns for all its characters and its still one of the most popular games in the world? Maybe Halo should become a MOBA. Compare games to like games, dont come in here and mention CS:GO and Overwatch as examples of what Halo needs. CS:GO, as a fact, has knife speed, which in simplified terms, allows you to move around the map faster while removing your ability to shoot back. Isnt that one of your pet peeves with sprint?

Halo 5 swords are sprint?
Do you lose your ability to infilct damage with the knife in CS:GO?

> 2533274848599184;4131:
> Finally, its just disingenuous to not look at the fact that before CoD 4, there was no FPS game that could actually compete with Halo. There were numerous WW2 games like Battlefield, Call of Duty, and Medal of Honour, but people were pretty sick of playing the same war over and over again in different games. Suddenly, they were given a game with real life weapons, a story very much related to current events, and a multiplayer experience that made you LOOK and FEEL like how the military is portrayed in the news every day. If you cant understand why that appealed more to casual gamers than a green armored marine shooting blue guys with glowing blue grenades, I cant help you.

Halo currently has little competition because there aren’t many games like it.
Halo currently has little comeptition because it is way out of the top games’ leagues it does not register.

So, with the little competition Halo currently enjoy, is it doing good?

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I’m sure Infinite will be fine with sprint. Just don’t make anything else built in like spartan charge, ground pound, or even the new grapple hook.

I liked spartan charge, and ground pound for other game types but make them armor abilities like the jet pack.

I’d hope the grapple hook would return as equipment and not mandatory as well.

I personally like thrusters but we’ll see about their inclusion…

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> > > > 2533274848051892;4112:
> > > > One big issue with the comparisons between Halo’s playerbase with classic movement and modern movement is it never takes into account the state of the Xbox brand at the time.
> > > >
> > > > Halo CE - The start of Xbox
> > > > Halo 2 - Xbox is big
> > > > Halo 3 - Xbox is even bigger
> > > > Halo Reach - Xbox is a platform focusing on Kinect because the Wii was huge
> > > > Halo 4 - Xbox is focusing even more on Kinect
> > > > Halo MCC - Xbox’s popularity massively dropped because of Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > > > Halo 5 - Xbox’s popularity still hasn’t recovered from Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > > >
> > > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> > >
> > > But thats assuming that the Xbox brand will ever be able to capture that magic again. You also have to consider the changing times of gaming. Halo 5 was absolutely a product of its time, and while this style of movement was popular in 2015, it may not be popular 5 years later in 2020. We live in a world where DOOM 2016 was a success and the mainstream FPS games have moved back to more classical styles of gameplay, one of which was the most successful game in the franchise ever (Modern Warfare).
> > >
> > > On top of that, you also have to consider whether Microsoft considers those games failures (most publishers consider 5 million in sales to be insufficient these days), and if they instead want to pivot Halo’s direction to attempt to recapture the magic of when Halo was successful. Pumping money into a project that appears to be a failure in most respects, with said failure potentially being blamed on the massive change in how Halo plays, makes zero business sense.
> > >
> > > Final point, the Xbox Series X isn’t out yet, so we can’t really gague whether people are still interested in Xbox as a platform. We’d have to wait and see, to be honest.
> >
> > I think the key point missing here is, lets take into account the state of FPS games during Halos lifetime. Between H3 and H:Reach is where CoD takes off, and thats arguably the biggest FPS game on the planet. All CoD has ever done is follow trends, and they consistently smash sales records and attract new players.
>
> That’s not actually true though, COD actually has come up with some of it’s own ideas, but for the most part it has continued to stick with it’s base mechanics. Go ahead and play the original Modern Warfare, (COD4) you’ll see that it plays very similar to the current COD titles out now.
>
> And do you know what the most hated COD game is, that’s right, Advanced Warfare, the game that tried to screw with the base mechanics and ended up being widely hated because of how different the movement mechanics were.
>
> Also in addition to Doom there are several other popular sprintless FPS games out now which are very successful, in particular Overwatch, CS GO, and to a lesser extend TF2. This has already been brought up countless times.

CoD has come up with its own ideas, which is why Infinite Warfare, Advanced Warfare, and Black Ops 3 exist, right? Those games all followed trends, made a -Yoink- ton of money, and fell off the following year when the new CoD was launched.

Black Ops 4 removed the campaign completely, included specialists once again to throw off any semblance of balance you get in MP, and it still sold like hot cakes. And all the “soft reboot” of Modern Warfare is, again, another game where the russians are bad guys, somethings wrong in the middle east, but this time we have a battle royale that is unbalanced as well as your standard MP. CoD never does anything “innovative” or unique, and it consistently sells.

Popular is a loaded term, how would you define it? As I mentioned previously, Doom 2016 sold 2 million units on PC in 1 year, from May 2016 to July 2017. Halo 5 sold 5 million copies in 3 months. What do you think the publisher prefers? CS:GO, has never had actual competition on PC until Valorant, so how is it fair to compare that to Halo? And in what world does Overwatch equate to an FPS? I suppose playing as Reinhardt means you shoot his hammer at people?

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Halo had plenty competition back then.

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> > 2533274848599184;4131:
> > Ok so can I say that Halo shouldnt have guns because League of Legends doesnt use guns for all its characters and its still one of the most popular games in the world? Maybe Halo should become a MOBA. Compare games to like games, dont come in here and mention CS:GO and Overwatch as examples of what Halo needs. CS:GO, as a fact, has knife speed, which in simplified terms, allows you to move around the map faster while removing your ability to shoot back. Isnt that one of your pet peeves with sprint?
>
> Halo 5 swords are sprint?
> Do you lose your ability to infilct damage with the knife in CS:GO?
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274848599184;4131:
> > Finally, its just disingenuous to not look at the fact that before CoD 4, there was no FPS game that could actually compete with Halo. There were numerous WW2 games like Battlefield, Call of Duty, and Medal of Honour, but people were pretty sick of playing the same war over and over again in different games. Suddenly, they were given a game with real life weapons, a story very much related to current events, and a multiplayer experience that made you LOOK and FEEL like how the military is portrayed in the news every day. If you cant understand why that appealed more to casual gamers than a green armored marine shooting blue guys with glowing blue grenades, I cant help you.
>
> Halo currently has little competition because there aren’t many games like it.
> Halo currently has little comeptition because it is way out of the top games’ leagues it does not register.
>
> So, with the little competition Halo currently enjoy, is it doing good?

What’s Spartan charge then? An ability to inflict damage while moving at top speed. Most CS:GO players wont use the knife for combat, but they do use it for map traversal.

Your opinion on good is likely to be subjective. Personally, I quite enjoy Halo 5, and some pros do as well. The point here is not to wonder if its “doing any good” but to question why it is way out of the top games’ leagues. CoD has lasting appeal, and even the most hated CoD games dont cause fans to abandon the series. So what is the true appeal of a Halo game? What is its core fanbase? Why does every CoD game have a huge audience, even the ones that stray so far from the series “roots” as a World War 2, boots-on-the-ground shooter? Personally, I believe its due to players ability to connect with the game. Casual gamers like CoD because they see weapons they see in real life, they see marines they see in real life, they play a campaign that you can turn reasoning off for 6 hours and think is plausible. A lot of people cant do that with Halo. We wont ever actually know the answer, but its not foolish to try and counteract that by adding simple things that people can understand, like a super soldier being able to sprint or climb a ledge.

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

All these snails -Yoink!- are lying to themselves but a halo game without sprint and advanced movement cannot have success nobody wants to play a game like halo 3 anymore that’s all

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The pick up thing is ultra lame if it the case,really hope all the abilities will be permanent like in halo 5

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> > > 2533274848599184;4128:
> > > > 2533275031935123;4113:
> > > > > 2533274848051892;4112:
> > > > > One big issue with the comparisons between Halo’s playerbase with classic movement and modern movement is it never takes into account the state of the Xbox brand at the time.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo CE - The start of Xbox
> > > > > Halo 2 - Xbox is big
> > > > > Halo 3 - Xbox is even bigger
> > > > > Halo Reach - Xbox is a platform focusing on Kinect because the Wii was huge
> > > > > Halo 4 - Xbox is focusing even more on Kinect
> > > > > Halo MCC - Xbox’s popularity massively dropped because of Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > > > > Halo 5 - Xbox’s popularity still hasn’t recovered from Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> > > > >
> > > > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> > > >
> > > > But thats assuming that the Xbox brand will ever be able to capture that magic again. You also have to consider the changing times of gaming. Halo 5 was absolutely a product of its time, and while this style of movement was popular in 2015, it may not be popular 5 years later in 2020. We live in a world where DOOM 2016 was a success and the mainstream FPS games have moved back to more classical styles of gameplay, one of which was the most successful game in the franchise ever (Modern Warfare).
> > > >
> > > > On top of that, you also have to consider whether Microsoft considers those games failures (most publishers consider 5 million in sales to be insufficient these days), and if they instead want to pivot Halo’s direction to attempt to recapture the magic of when Halo was successful. Pumping money into a project that appears to be a failure in most respects, with said failure potentially being blamed on the massive change in how Halo plays, makes zero business sense.
> > > >
> > > > Final point, the Xbox Series X isn’t out yet, so we can’t really gague whether people are still interested in Xbox as a platform. We’d have to wait and see, to be honest.
> > >
> > > I think the key point missing here is, lets take into account the state of FPS games during Halos lifetime. Between H3 and H:Reach is where CoD takes off, and thats arguably the biggest FPS game on the planet. All CoD has ever done is follow trends, and they consistently smash sales records and attract new players.
> >
> > That’s not actually true though, COD actually has come up with some of it’s own ideas, but for the most part it has continued to stick with it’s base mechanics. Go ahead and play the original Modern Warfare, (COD4) you’ll see that it plays very similar to the current COD titles out now.
> >
> > And do you know what the most hated COD game is, that’s right, Advanced Warfare, the game that tried to screw with the base mechanics and ended up being widely hated because of how different the movement mechanics were.
> >
> > Also in addition to Doom there are several other popular sprintless FPS games out now which are very successful, in particular Overwatch, CS GO, and to a lesser extend TF2. This has already been brought up countless times.
>
> CoD has come up with its own ideas, which is why Infinite Warfare, Advanced Warfare, and Black Ops 3 exist, right? Those games all followed trends, made a -Yoink- ton of money, and fell off the following year when the new CoD was launched.
>
> Black Ops 4 removed the campaign completely, included specialists once again to throw off any semblance of balance you get in MP, and it still sold like hot cakes. And all the “soft reboot” of Modern Warfare is, again, another game where the russians are bad guys, somethings wrong in the middle east, but this time we have a battle royale that is unbalanced as well as your standard MP. CoD never does anything “innovative” or unique, and it consistently sells.
>
> Popular is a loaded term, how would you define it? As I mentioned previously, Doom 2016 sold 2 million units on PC in 1 year, from May 2016 to July 2017. Halo 5 sold 5 million copies in 3 months. What do you think the publisher prefers? CS:GO, has never had actual competition on PC until Valorant, so how is it fair to compare that to Halo? And in what world does Overwatch equate to an FPS? I suppose playing as Reinhardt means you shoot his hammer at people?

At the end of the day Cod’s consistend albeit repetative formula is successful because despite following some trends it maintains it’s key features. The most hated COD games are those which abandoned features or added ones that didn’t work with COD’s formula.

All COD games may be financially successful, but they clearly aren’t all equal, some are clearly more liked and hated than others. Also it is more difficult to guage how popular a COD game is simply because of the way that they are released annually.

Why are we only counting PC sales for DOOM? That’s downright dishonest seeing as the game is available on multiple platforms, and either way it shows that a game without sprint can be beloved and sell millions of copies even today.

The comparison with Halo and CS:GO is simply one of movement mechanics, I realize that they are very different games, but once again the comparison is meant to show how a sprintless FPS can be popular. How has CS:GO never had competition until Valorant? Just because nothing was exactly the same doesn’t mean it didn’t have competition.

Lastly Reinhardt is hardly the only character who shoots in Overwatch, it may not be the most pure FPS but it most certainly has characters who shoot and only one sprints.

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> 2533274848599184;4136:
> What’s Spartan charge then? An ability to inflict damage while moving at top speed. Most CS:GO players wont use the knife for combat, but they do use it for map traversal.

Spartan Charge is not Sprint, that’s all that matter. They are two different mechanics.
However, going deeper into it, because I know it is needed.
Spartan Charge is a damage dealing mechanic which has a pre-requisite to be used, and that is moving at top speed. In Halo 5 it just so happens that top speed is Sprint.
Remove sprint and Spartan Charge could easily be applied to moving at top speed forward with BMS only.
For instance, tap the melee button to perform a basic melee attack, hold the melee while moving forward at top speed to charge a Spartan Charge metre like how the Rail gun and Splaser function.
So, it is impossible to deal damage with the knife because most CS:GO players don’t use it in combat?
Is the Sword Sprint in Halo 5?

> 2533274848599184;4136:
> Your opinion on good is likely to be subjective. Personally, I quite enjoy Halo 5, and some pros do as well. The point here is not to wonder if its “doing any good” but to question why it is way out of the top games’ leagues. CoD has lasting appeal, and even the most hated CoD games dont cause fans to abandon the series. So what is the true appeal of a Halo game? What is its core fanbase? Why does every CoD game have a huge audience, even the ones that stray so far from the series “roots” as a World War 2, boots-on-the-ground shooter? Personally, I believe its due to players ability to connect with the game. Casual gamers like CoD because they see weapons they see in real life, they see marines they see in real life, they play a campaign that you can turn reasoning off for 6 hours and think is plausible. A lot of people cant do that with Halo. We wont ever actually know the answer, but its not foolish to try and counteract that by adding simple things that people can understand, like a super soldier being able to sprint or climb a ledge.

A lot of nothing.
Based on your own previous statements regarding Halo competition, it currently enjoy little competition.

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> 2533274794648158;4135:
> Halo had plenty competition back then.

Theres a lot to unpack here. Quick note, I find it funny that Favyn starts off the video by calling the argument, weak, dismissive, and ignorant, then uses cherry picked examples to make his point. Favyn has made tons of videos that other Halo Youtubers have responded to, and tends to respond to all of them in a weak, dismissive, and ignorant manner. The latest being advanced mobility in Halo, between him, Aozolai and ShyWay

The two major articles Favyn uses to justify his argument are the Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009, back when Major Nelson used to track these by UU. There are two major points to consider here. The conditions of each launch game, and what exactly the two articles Favyn mentions tell us.

Conditions of each launch game: Halo 3 was the culmination of the trilogy that had defined the Xbox. Halo 2 had ended on a cliffhanger, almost everyone playing FPS on consoles had played/heard of Halo, so there was no way this wasnt going to be the biggest launch ever. CoD 4 launched as a soft reboot of the series. Even with heightened expectations, it wasnt feasible to compare their launches. What it did do, it inject fresh air into the franchise. There is no argument that Halo was the biggest FPS launch in the early era of the Xbox 360. Which leads to the second point.

What exactly does Top Live Games of 2008 and 2009 tell us? Major Nelson tracked the games by the number of UUs per year. Every unique user that logs into the game. Over a whole year. Even the casual gamer who jumps between fads isnt going to play Modern Warfare 2 the whole year. So if they log in and play Halo once, it counts.
Here is the WEEKLY counts of unique users from January 2008 onwards, 3 months after both Halo 3 and CoD 4 launch.

Btw, the figures for 2009 get even worse. Halo 3 never appears ahead of Modern Warfare 2 weekly, and the only time Halo appears in the top spot is when Reach launches in September. In November it is displaced by BOTH Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops.