I don’t like H5’s thrust mechanic because it’s not a tool of creativity. All it is is a sudden lateral movement, and there’s no reason to use it in a gunfight unless you’re down a shot. I think they should repurpose thrust so that instead of a single lateral move, it gives the player more air control. Once activated in mid-air, you can now strafe in the air like you can on the ground. It would be like strafing with the stabilize mechanic. You’d still have your normal jumps as well. Combine this with wall jumps and I think a lot of player creativity can come out of it in terms of movement.
> 2533274823167390;4101:
> > 2535449076192416;1:
> > 5. The removal of sprint does not necessarily mean the game will be “dumbed down” from its predecessors
>
> Need this even be stated? The inclusion of sprint, ‘abilities’, etc, is what ‘dumbs down’ the games, hence why every Halo after 3 has been bad.
>
>
> > 2535449076192416;1:
> > Thrust is generally friendly to the ‘guns always up’ philosophy, and many in this thread wouldn’t mind seeing its return.
>
> Just as bad as sprint, arguably worse. Halo 3 style equipment is acceptable (I would prefer not to have it, but am fine either way). Sprint, thrust, armor abilities, etc do not belong in Halo.
You barely elaborate on how the inclusion of sprint dumbs down the games…
And I argue that the inclusion of sprint makes Halo More complex …which is nearly the opposite of “dumbed down” by the interpertation of many. I, given my preferences want a simpler halo… which is nearly synonymous with “dumbed down”. I want the exclusion of sprint because it needlessly complicates things. Extra buttons, slower bms… etc.
but I’ll grant you the best case scenario of what you might intend to mean. Did you mean that the inclusion of sprint allows you to mindlessly throw yourself into a firefight because you always have the ability to run out of it should you be losing it?
Id say in that case, im inclined to agree with you. But then you make your second point which makes me feel like you dont want these features just because it isnt playing exactly like bungie era halo excluding reach. I will try to give the upmost charity and assume thats not what you want and you are ok with innovation in halo in ways that dont neccesarily change the game beyond recognition.
You say thrust and armor abilities do not belong in halo… yet you dont elaborate on that at all. Why? You provide no explanation and leave us all guessing as to the reasons why you find those things in particular “unbelonging” to a halo game.
For a start, equipment was already a thing, and you seem to be ok with halo 3 equipment (although you prefer not to have it, which I find rather interesting). Armor abilities are arguably better than equipment because everyone starts with them… meaning more equal starts. People might argue equipment act like power weapons , and encourage map control something which is fundamental to halo gameplay. But how many things can you place equidistant (or equal distances) from spawn points? Someone is bound to have an advantage… which is something halo is not known for. Halo 5 attempts to fix this by integrating abilities as a base mechanic… spartan abilities. Everyone starts with the same abilities.
Now there are issues with spartan abilities, But i think they can be fixed (and some of them removed). Thrust is actually one of those i dont mind, as long as its used less often, and isnt used as a map traversal device throwing spartans into and out of battles. Sprint could potentially attempt to solve the issue of traversing larger spaces, but only if its heavily modified to not function as zooming in small corridors. Stabilize is loved by some… I am also fine with it, its not game breaking imo. If anything really has to go its groundpound and spartan charge. And the two things that kind of combined with thrust to make for some rather ridiculous plays are slide and clamber… which I think are debatable with respect to wether or not the community wants them… at least the small part of it on halo waypoint.
Id love for you to elaborate more on why you rather not have these mechanics… and perhaps specifically why not armor abilities like in halo 4 and reach?
responding now to Teejay
> 2533274794648158;4102:
> I don’t like H5’s thrust mechanic because it’s not a tool of creativity. All it is is a sudden lateral movement, and there’s no reason to use it in a gunfight unless you’re down a shot. I think they should repurpose thrust so that instead of a single lateral move, it gives the player more air control. Once activated in mid-air, you can now strafe in the air like you can on the ground. It would be like strafing with the stabilize mechanic. You’d still have your normal jumps as well. Combine this with wall jumps and I think a lot of player creativity can come out of it in terms of movement.
You speak as if you know my heart. tell me what gospel you preach XD
Because everything you said here seems like it came exactly from my own preferences
Im completely onboard with these ideas.
> 2533274823167390;4101:
> > 2535449076192416;1:
> > 5. The removal of sprint does not necessarily mean the game will be “dumbed down” from its predecessors
>
> Need this even be stated? The inclusion of sprint, ‘abilities’, etc, is what ‘dumbs down’ the games, hence why every Halo after 3 has been bad.
>
>
> > 2535449076192416;1:
> > Thrust is generally friendly to the ‘guns always up’ philosophy, and many in this thread wouldn’t mind seeing its return.
>
> Just as bad as sprint, arguably worse. Halo 3 style equipment is acceptable (I would prefer not to have it, but am fine either way). Sprint, thrust, armor abilities, etc do not belong in Halo.
Halo 3 equipment is fine. It was basically like a unique type of grenade. Perhaps they could rework those into being grenade types. Shield grenade, power drain grenade, etc.
> 2533274794648158;4102:
> I don’t like H5’s thrust mechanic because it’s not a tool of creativity. All it is is a sudden lateral movement, and there’s no reason to use it in a gunfight unless you’re down a shot. I think they should repurpose thrust so that instead of a single lateral move, it gives the player more air control. Once activated in mid-air, you can now strafe in the air like you can on the ground. It would be like strafing with the stabilize mechanic. You’d still have your normal jumps as well. Combine this with wall jumps and I think a lot of player creativity can come out of it in terms of movement.
The most I’d do with thrusters beyond using them in Low G areas is use it like one of those Halo 4 cinematics where the Spartans used their thrusters to slow their descent for a safe landing. They’d have to implement fall damage though, which is something they’ll likely do since it’s been in what, all games since Halo Reach?
Halo infinite needs to be halo 5.5 in terms of gameplay otherwise it’s over for the franchise, the snail -Yoink- classic halo gameplay (even tho I was loving it) doesn’t aged well at all
> 2535442720435268;4105:
> Halo infinite needs to be halo 5.5 in terms of gameplay otherwise it’s over for the franchise, the snail -Yoink- classic halo gameplay (even tho I was loving it) doesn’t aged well at all
Thats the last thing it should be. If anything it should return back to H2 movement. And the movement has aged well (not perfect since nothing does) but it holds up unlike H5 which jumped on the advanced movement bandwagon. Not everything needs to be CoD AW and Titanfall movement mechanics.
> 2535442720435268;4105:
> Halo infinite needs to be halo 5.5 in terms of gameplay otherwise it’s over for the franchise, the snail -Yoink- classic halo gameplay (even tho I was loving it) doesn’t aged well at all
Why do you make this assumption?
> 2535442720435268;4105:
> Halo infinite needs to be halo 5.5 in terms of gameplay otherwise it’s over for the franchise
But I thought Halo needs to evolve?
> 2533274825830455;4108:
> > 2535442720435268;4105:
> > Halo infinite needs to be halo 5.5 in terms of gameplay otherwise it’s over for the franchise
>
> But I thought Halo needs to evolve?
This, they keep saying “HaLo nEeDs To eVoLve” and then they just want Halo 5 all over again, maybe without Spartan charge or ground pound (which is more similar to Halo 4 actually).
> 2535442720435268;4105:
> Halo infinite needs to be halo 5.5 in terms of gameplay otherwise it’s over for the franchise, the snail -Yoink- classic halo gameplay (even tho I was loving it) doesn’t aged well at all
Halo needs to evolve to stay relevant. It won’t be able to compete with future FPS titles. You can always go back to Halo 5 if you don’t like Infinite.
> 2535442720435268;4105:
> Halo infinite needs to be halo 5.5 in terms of gameplay otherwise it’s over for the franchise, the snail -Yoink- classic halo gameplay (even tho I was loving it) doesn’t aged well at all
Halo 5 is definitely not the way to go judging by the quick death of the playerbase. Halo 2/3 is the way to go, just gotta turn movement speed up 10-15% and make equipment more interesting.
One big issue with the comparisons between Halo’s playerbase with classic movement and modern movement is it never takes into account the state of the Xbox brand at the time.
Halo CE - The start of Xbox
Halo 2 - Xbox is big
Halo 3 - Xbox is even bigger
Halo Reach - Xbox is a platform focusing on Kinect because the Wii was huge
Halo 4 - Xbox is focusing even more on Kinect
Halo MCC - Xbox’s popularity massively dropped because of Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
Halo 5 - Xbox’s popularity still hasn’t recovered from Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> 2533274848051892;4112:
> One big issue with the comparisons between Halo’s playerbase with classic movement and modern movement is it never takes into account the state of the Xbox brand at the time.
>
> Halo CE - The start of Xbox
> Halo 2 - Xbox is big
> Halo 3 - Xbox is even bigger
> Halo Reach - Xbox is a platform focusing on Kinect because the Wii was huge
> Halo 4 - Xbox is focusing even more on Kinect
> Halo MCC - Xbox’s popularity massively dropped because of Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
> Halo 5 - Xbox’s popularity still hasn’t recovered from Don Mattrick’s XB1 vision in 2013
>
> So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
But thats assuming that the Xbox brand will ever be able to capture that magic again. You also have to consider the changing times of gaming. Halo 5 was absolutely a product of its time, and while this style of movement was popular in 2015, it may not be popular 5 years later in 2020. We live in a world where DOOM 2016 was a success and the mainstream FPS games have moved back to more classical styles of gameplay, one of which was the most successful game in the franchise ever (Modern Warfare).
On top of that, you also have to consider whether Microsoft considers those games failures (most publishers consider 5 million in sales to be insufficient these days), and if they instead want to pivot Halo’s direction to attempt to recapture the magic of when Halo was successful. Pumping money into a project that appears to be a failure in most respects, with said failure potentially being blamed on the massive change in how Halo plays, makes zero business sense.
Final point, the Xbox Series X isn’t out yet, so we can’t really gague whether people are still interested in Xbox as a platform. We’d have to wait and see, to be honest.
> 2533274848051892;4112:
> So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
What’s your definition of a modern movement game? Because last time I checked most recent games that released in 2019-2020 are reverting back to their classic forms and ditching advance movements. Call of Duty being the biggest in 2019 removing everything Advance Warfare and BO3 did and Valorant being released last month and went to top of Twitch charts for most viewed and theres no advance movement in that either.
> 2533274832360281;4114:
> > 2533274848051892;4112:
> > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
>
> What’s your definition of a modern movement game? Because last time I checked most recent games that released in 2019-2020 are reverting back to their classic forms and ditching advance movements. Call of Duty being the biggest in 2019 removing everything Advance Warfare and BO3 did and Valorant being released last month and went to top of Twitch charts for most viewed and theres no advance movement in that either.
Not to stir the pot too much, but won’t ‘following the trend’ of other games going back to ‘classic movement’ be just as great a ‘sin’ as ‘ruining the classic feel with the new trash’? As much as I enjoy the fast-feeling advanced movement of H5 and the challenge of tracking my opponents and the old-school kinetics, the complaints on both sides of the debate get tiresome. Everyone should just say their piece, then go play the playlists they feel is the ‘best’. Just my two cents.
> 2535417347219052;4115:
> > 2533274832360281;4114:
> > > 2533274848051892;4112:
> > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> >
> > What’s your definition of a modern movement game? Because last time I checked most recent games that released in 2019-2020 are reverting back to their classic forms and ditching advance movements. Call of Duty being the biggest in 2019 removing everything Advance Warfare and BO3 did and Valorant being released last month and went to top of Twitch charts for most viewed and theres no advance movement in that either.
>
> Not to stir the pot too much, but won’t ‘following the trend’ of other games going back to ‘classic movement’ be just as great a ‘sin’ as ‘ruining the classic feel with the new trash’? As much as I enjoy the fast-feeling advanced movement of H5 and the challenge of tracking my opponents and the old-school kinetics, the complaints on both sides of the debate get tiresome. Everyone should just say their piece, then go play the playlists they feel is the ‘best’. Just my two cents.
The primary issue with “play the playlists you like,” is that it doesn’t address balance problems introduced by the introductions of new mechanics. A “classic” playlist can only replicate the feel and appearance of classic Halo oh so much. On top of that, having a straight re-hash of Halo 3 isn’t what any of us are looking for. Rather, we’re looking for that core from Halo 1-3 but with some sort of innovation like dual-wield or equipment from Halo 2 and Halo 3 respectively. Those greatly changed the way the game played without radically altering the core of how it played.
> 2535417347219052;4115:
> > 2533274832360281;4114:
> > > 2533274848051892;4112:
> > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> >
> > What’s your definition of a modern movement game? Because last time I checked most recent games that released in 2019-2020 are reverting back to their classic forms and ditching advance movements. Call of Duty being the biggest in 2019 removing everything Advance Warfare and BO3 did and Valorant being released last month and went to top of Twitch charts for most viewed and theres no advance movement in that either.
>
> Not to stir the pot too much, but won’t ‘following the trend’ of other games going back to ‘classic movement’ be just as great a ‘sin’ as ‘ruining the classic feel with the new trash’? As much as I enjoy the fast-feeling advanced movement of H5 and the challenge of tracking my opponents and the old-school kinetics, the complaints on both sides of the debate get tiresome. Everyone should just say their piece, then go play the playlists they feel is the ‘best’. Just my two cents.
I mean… technically they followed the advance movement trend of the gaming industry with Halo 5. I don’t think them going back to classic movement would be following a trend but more so going back to the “golden era” of Halo, which theres a 206 page forum post on it. While I do agree the debates do get tiresome, this is a debate that decides the entire sandbox of the game. Its more than just a playlist.
> 2533274832360281;4117:
> > 2535417347219052;4115:
> > > 2533274832360281;4114:
> > > > 2533274848051892;4112:
> > > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> > >
> > > What’s your definition of a modern movement game? Because last time I checked most recent games that released in 2019-2020 are reverting back to their classic forms and ditching advance movements. Call of Duty being the biggest in 2019 removing everything Advance Warfare and BO3 did and Valorant being released last month and went to top of Twitch charts for most viewed and theres no advance movement in that either.
> >
> > Not to stir the pot too much, but won’t ‘following the trend’ of other games going back to ‘classic movement’ be just as great a ‘sin’ as ‘ruining the classic feel with the new trash’? As much as I enjoy the fast-feeling advanced movement of H5 and the challenge of tracking my opponents and the old-school kinetics, the complaints on both sides of the debate get tiresome. Everyone should just say their piece, then go play the playlists they feel is the ‘best’. Just my two cents.
>
> I mean… technically they followed the advance movement trend of the gaming industry with Halo 5. I don’t think them going back to classic movement would be following a trend but more so going back to the “golden era” of Halo, which theres a 206 page forum post on it. While I do agree the debates do get tiresome, this is a debate that decides the entire sandbox of the game. Its more than just a playlist.
Don’t forget about that 836 page post on sprint that was active for like 3 or 4 years. This debate has went on for so long because of how much people want the old gameplay style back, myself included.
> 2535423412908536;4118:
> > 2533274832360281;4117:
> > > 2535417347219052;4115:
> > > > 2533274832360281;4114:
> > > > > 2533274848051892;4112:
> > > > > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
> > > >
> > > > What’s your definition of a modern movement game? Because last time I checked most recent games that released in 2019-2020 are reverting back to their classic forms and ditching advance movements. Call of Duty being the biggest in 2019 removing everything Advance Warfare and BO3 did and Valorant being released last month and went to top of Twitch charts for most viewed and theres no advance movement in that either.
> > >
> > > Not to stir the pot too much, but won’t ‘following the trend’ of other games going back to ‘classic movement’ be just as great a ‘sin’ as ‘ruining the classic feel with the new trash’? As much as I enjoy the fast-feeling advanced movement of H5 and the challenge of tracking my opponents and the old-school kinetics, the complaints on both sides of the debate get tiresome. Everyone should just say their piece, then go play the playlists they feel is the ‘best’. Just my two cents.
> >
> > I mean… technically they followed the advance movement trend of the gaming industry with Halo 5. I don’t think them going back to classic movement would be following a trend but more so going back to the “golden era” of Halo, which theres a 206 page forum post on it. While I do agree the debates do get tiresome, this is a debate that decides the entire sandbox of the game. Its more than just a playlist.
>
> Don’t forget about that 836 page post on sprint that was active for like 3 or 4 years. This debate has went on for so long because of how much people want the old gameplay style back, myself included.
I’m curious as to whether Infinite will kill this debate or not. Obviously there will still be passionate members of the community arguing against Sprint, but that would be three games in a row where 343 puts forward their vision for what Halo should be. I know for myself that if Infinite has Sprint, I’ll never buy it. 2 days worth of Halo 5 let’s me know that i won’t enjoy Infinite if it has the same or similar mechanics.
You know it’s a shame, logically speaking people should be able to sprint and aim down sights but they seem to have a harmful effect on gameplay. Yeah realistically they’d be able to do that but when it costs the gameplay its fun then we shouldn’t do it.
That being said, I’m not opposed to aim down sights or some analogous system being in place, I just think it was handled poorly. In Halo 5 it makes the bullet spread of your gun tighter to account for the larger distances. But imagine if we had maps only somewhat bigger than Halo 3, maybe around Halo Reach size, base movement speed is like 10% more than Halo 3, and they keep ADS but it doesn’t tighten your spread, it just adds a zoom function to most weapons. I think ADS without it making for an actual gameplay accuracy increase would be best. It’s only more “accurate” by letting the player zoom in. The player would still be responsible for the accuracy.
Precision weapons should probably keep a Halo 2-3 style accuracy boost for zooming with precision weapons (BR, DMR, Sniper, and the like) but aside from that don’t tighten the spread of the AR, SMG, Shotgun, and similar weapons. I think their base spread should be tighter than Halo 3.
I think sword should definitely not have any zoom function. The way that was put into Halo 5 for the sword just made swords play all wack.
> 2533274832360281;4114:
> > 2533274848051892;4112:
> > So to make a fair comparison we’d need a modern movement game at a time when Xbox as a brand is strong.
>
> What’s your definition of a modern movement game? Because last time I checked most recent games that released in 2019-2020 are reverting back to their classic forms and ditching advance movements. Call of Duty being the biggest in 2019 removing everything Advance Warfare and BO3 did and Valorant being released last month and went to top of Twitch charts for most viewed and theres no advance movement in that either.
Don’t you know you MUST have sprint to be a popular game? Look at popular shooters in the past like CS:GO, or Doom Eternal! Those games would just alienate their audience if they didn’t have sprint!