The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
4062

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> > > i do not want old movement its way too boring and its not fun you dont feel like a super solider, halo 5 had a perfect implement of movement using SKILL BASED MOVEMENT and some fun armor abilities not used in competitive.
> >
> > Old halo had the skilled based movement whats your point
>
> How is walking in a straight line when your gun stays up while you can sit in a corner and hide take skill? Halo 5 Iā€™m doing the olympics over your head. Most people who donā€™t like halo 5s advanced skill based movement werenā€™t good at it to begin with :confused:

If youā€™re simply going to generalize everyone based on their opinions then why bother?

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> > > > > Iā€™ve been playing halo since the OG xbox but if sprint gone so am I. I canā€™t go back to the slow movement of halo 3. If thatā€™s the case good bye halo I loved u so much
> > > >
> > > > What about the slow movement of CE?
> > >
> > > Yeah I dont want to play a slower halo. I loved CE but the multiplayer in H5 was better with sprint and it had the tightness of halo 2
> >
> > Halo 5ā€™s BMS was increased and is the highest of all the Halos.
> > Halo CE-3 share the same BMS.
> > Thereā€™s more to game pacing than just the BMS.
> > I regret never testing out the ā€œLegacyā€ custom game mode, or whatever it was called. Though I saw many praising posts regarding it. Basically, further increased BMS, higher jump height, and ditched the other movement mechanics.
> >
> > As far as Infinite goes, I doubt anything will be ditched from Halo 5 in terms of movement mechanics, or not much anyway.
>
> I hope not I canā€™t think of a current fps with slow movement thatā€™s crazy that a lot of people want the H3 movement

Me too

4064

If the old mechanics come back Iā€™d welcome them if only to punish players more often who have bad map positioning. Which is what halo was. Set ups and map control. I miss that. However, I also like the speed of play of the current halo if you can master the movement. Either way I think 343 will get it right as I think theyā€™ve improved upon each game theyā€™ve developed.

4065

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> > > i do not want old movement its way too boring and its not fun you dont feel like a super solider, halo 5 had a perfect implement of movement using SKILL BASED MOVEMENT and some fun armor abilities not used in competitive.
> >
> > Old halo had the skilled based movement whats your point
>
> How is walking in a straight line when your gun stays up while you can sit in a corner and hide take skill? Halo 5 Iā€™m doing the olympics over your head. Most people who donā€™t like halo 5s advanced skill based movement werenā€™t good at it to begin with :confused:

Because you can also strafe and take cover. If youā€™re walking in a straight line, sounds like you arenā€™t good at Halo 1-3 style movement. I donā€™t like the Halo 5 movement because it makes the game nigh on inaccessible to casual audiences. You have to hand friends a friggin handbook on how to play the game as opposed to classic Halo which you could just give them the controller.

4066

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> > > i do not want old movement its way too boring and its not fun you dont feel like a super solider, halo 5 had a perfect implement of movement using SKILL BASED MOVEMENT and some fun armor abilities not used in competitive.
> >
> > Old halo had the skilled based movement whats your point
>
> How is walking in a straight line when your gun stays up while you can sit in a corner and hide take skill? Halo 5 Iā€™m doing the olympics over your head. Most people who donā€™t like halo 5s advanced skill based movement werenā€™t good at it to begin with :confused:

I suppose sprinting in a straight line and stopping to shoot takes more skill.

Clamber reduces skill required in jumps, since it salvages your failed attempts with an animation.

Thrusting in Halo 5 takes as much skill as jumping in Halo 3. Itā€™s an evasive maneuver, but horizontally instead of vertically. I donā€™t mind it, but I wouldnā€™t say it creates skill where there wasnā€™t before.

Halo 5 provides no more skill than an older game, it just increases the number of buttons you need to press to do the same things.

I played Halo 5 nonstop through all its major content drops, and a little more after that. I was good at the game. I come back to Halo 5 after a time and find myself a frustrated, sweaty mess, appalled at how horribly I played every match. I come back to MCC after a time and find it much more accessible, picking up where I left off much sooner and generally having a good time.

You can guess which games I prefer to play. Accessibility is important too, not just how sweaty you make your players.

4067

It always bugged me that a supersoldier that can lift cars and deflect incoming missiles at superhuman speed canā€™t grab a ledge and climb. Clamber should stay, bar none. Say what you want about the jets/thrusters but clamber needs to stay.

Halo 5ā€™s thruster abilities were a pain because it means the maps need huge wide open spaces in order to get that 4-shot BR kill, or else theyā€™ll jet back into cover. Sometimes bigger maps are not better. It also reduced the time-to-kill which is annoying when youā€™re just going about your business, get shot from behind, and die before you can turn around and respond. It makes the game turn into peek-a-boo.

But one thing about old Halos is that it seemed the physics were off. Like the time it takes for Chief to fall from a jump is longer than it would be under Earthā€™s gravity, as if heā€™s on a planet with weaker gravity. Get the physics right, make players fall at 9.8 m/s squared like in real life.

I figure the response is ā€œOh thatā€™s what it looks like from a spartanā€™s point of viewā€, yet Marines and such still move at normal speed and not slow-motion.

Random idea: Perhaps keep sprint but only when shields are down? And donā€™t let shields recover while sprinting. So perhaps sprintā€™s negative effect on gameplay would be mitigated. But probably no sprint anyway.

I liked the VISr mode from ODST so perhaps bring back something like that, like you can highlight players like Spartan Locke can for enemies in H5ā€™s campaign. Make it last for no more than like 5 seconds or something.

4068

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> It always bugged me that a supersoldier that can lift cars and deflect incoming missiles at superhuman speed canā€™t grab a ledge and climb. Clamber should stay, bar none. Say what you want about the jets/thrusters but clamber needs to stay.
>
> Halo 5ā€™s thruster abilities were a pain because it means the maps need huge wide open spaces in order to get that 4-shot BR kill, or else theyā€™ll jet back into cover. Sometimes bigger maps are not better. It also reduced the time-to-kill which is annoying when youā€™re just going about your business, get shot from behind, and die before you can turn around and respond. It makes the game turn into peek-a-boo.
>
> But one thing about old Halos is that it seemed the physics were off. Like the time it takes for Chief to fall from a jump is longer than it would be under Earthā€™s gravity, as if heā€™s on a planet with weaker gravity. Get the physics right, make players fall at 9.8 m/s squared like in real life.
>
> I figure the response is ā€œOh thatā€™s what it looks like from a spartanā€™s point of viewā€, yet Marines and such still move at normal speed and not slow-motion.
>
> Random idea: Perhaps keep sprint but only when shields are down? And donā€™t let shields recover while sprinting. So perhaps sprintā€™s negative effect on gameplay would be mitigated. But probably no sprint anyway.
>
> I liked the VISr mode from ODST so perhaps bring back something like that, like you can highlight players like Spartan Locke can for enemies in H5ā€™s campaign. Make it last for no more than like 5 seconds or something.

You raise an interesting point about gravity that I always noticed but never really focused on. I also think its about time that gravity becomes normal (however I think this is largely explainable by the fact that alot of the time you literally are not on earth. Halo 2, 3, and ODST are exceptions.)
But if on earth, ye, the gravity should be fixed.

I also liked the visr mode. but for obvious reasons this in multiplayer might not be a good idea.

I dont like your ā€œrandom ideaā€. The reason why I want sprint if I want it at all is to traverse the open wide areas that would otherwise just waste time. The ability for people to run away from a fight is one of the many reasons why many people hate sprintā€¦ and this would promote that kind of gameplay.

As for clamber, from an aesthetic standpoint I wouldnt mind the animiation if its just the animation. If you were already going to make a jump then why not.
But i dont like the fact that clamer allows you to cling onto edges, like in a magnetic like fashion wwhere you can literally be moving the opposite direction to the edge and grab onto it. That, i think is actually unrealistic if you want to argue from a realistic standpoint, and I think potentially gamebreaking from the perspective of gameplay. It promotes that ā€œpeekabooā€ gameplay where a person can fall back off a ledge and then get back up to the same ledge. Thats not the end of my complaints thou, as clambering, as it works now, allows you to grab ā€œhidden ledgesā€ found in the geometry of the mapā€¦ complicating matters for map design by a whole bunch.

I can imagine people still want clamber despite all of these issues, but personally I rather not have itā€¦ except if its implemented in ā€œcommon senseā€ ways . For example , running and you hit a low obstacle and you hit A at the same time and you clamber right over it. Battle feild implements something similar to this. It helps the game stay on its feet and avoids the annoying pauses in the momentum the game has.

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> > > > > Iā€™ve been playing halo since the OG xbox but if sprint gone so am I. I canā€™t go back to the slow movement of halo 3. If thatā€™s the case good bye halo I loved u so much
> > > >
> > > > What about the slow movement of CE?
> > >
> > > Yeah I dont want to play a slower halo. I loved CE but the multiplayer in H5 was better with sprint and it had the tightness of halo 2
> >
> > Halo 5ā€™s BMS was increased and is the highest of all the Halos.
> > Halo CE-3 share the same BMS.
> > Thereā€™s more to game pacing than just the BMS.
> > I regret never testing out the ā€œLegacyā€ custom game mode, or whatever it was called. Though I saw many praising posts regarding it. Basically, further increased BMS, higher jump height, and ditched the other movement mechanics.
> >
> > As far as Infinite goes, I doubt anything will be ditched from Halo 5 in terms of movement mechanics, or not much anyway.
>
> I hope not I canā€™t think of a current fps with slow movement thatā€™s crazy that a lot of people want the H3 movement

CS:GO topping steam charts everyday, Valorant topping Twitch most watched everyday since it released last month. Literally the two biggest FPSā€™s on the market right now.

So it seems ā€œslowā€ movement actually is more popular than Titanfall movement. Hence why majority of games that pushed that trend of gameplay are no longer doing it.

4070

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> You raise an interesting point about gravity that I always noticed but never really focused on. I also think its about time that gravity becomes normal (however I think this is largely explainable by the fact that alot of the time you literally are not on earth. Halo 2, 3, and ODST are exceptions.)
> But if on earth, ye, the gravity should be fixed.

I like the floaty jumping. Itā€™s Halo.

4071

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> > You raise an interesting point about gravity that I always noticed but never really focused on. I also think its about time that gravity becomes normal (however I think this is largely explainable by the fact that alot of the time you literally are not on earth. Halo 2, 3, and ODST are exceptions.)
> > But if on earth, ye, the gravity should be fixed.
>
> I like the floaty jumping. Itā€™s Halo.

Thats fair, I respect that opinion

4072

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> As for clamber, from an aesthetic standpoint I wouldnt mind the animiation if its just the animation. If you were already going to make a jump then why not.
> But i dont like the fact that clamer allows you to cling onto edges, like in a magnetic like fashion wwhere you can literally be moving the opposite direction to the edge and grab onto it. That, i think is actually unrealistic if you want to argue from a realistic standpoint, and I think potentially gamebreaking from the perspective of gameplay. It promotes that ā€œpeekabooā€ gameplay where a person can fall back off a ledge and then get back up to the same ledge. Thats not the end of my complaints thou, as clambering, as it works now, allows you to grab ā€œhidden ledgesā€ found in the geometry of the mapā€¦ complicating matters for map design by a whole bunch.
>
> I can imagine people still want clamber despite all of these issues, but personally I rather not have itā€¦ except if its implemented in ā€œcommon senseā€ ways . For example , running and you hit a low obstacle and you hit A at the same time and you clamber right over it. Battle feild implements something similar to this. It helps the game stay on its feet and avoids the annoying pauses in the momentum the game has.

Spartans have super strength so grabbing a ledge even if the momentum is moving away from the ledge is fine.
Hidden ledges would get patched if they break the gameplay, thatā€™s not a big deal at all. We shouldnā€™t avoid features to negate exploits. Just fix the exploits.

Although I like the idea of clambering or vaulting over low obstacles. Now we certainly donā€™t need wacky things like wallrunning but I like the idea of a pinch of parkour being added to the mix. Perhaps jump at a wall and press jump again to kick off the wall. Now this is all with thrusters removed mind you.

Weā€™ve certainly advanced enough in technology do do basically anything in games. Old Halos by comparison look and feel really arcade-like. Like, theyā€™re not ā€œslickā€ per se. Lack of seamless transitions in movement.

My current thoughts are remove thrusters but keep them for low gravity portions, I can take or leave sprint, keep clamber, and perhaps add low obstacle vaulting and wall-jumping. But perhaps limit that to one wall jump so we canā€™t do Mario-like jumps.

Basically Halo 3 movement with a few parkour moves. Is that so bad?

4073

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> > As for clamber, from an aesthetic standpoint I wouldnt mind the animiation if its just the animation. If you were already going to make a jump then why not.
> > But i dont like the fact that clamer allows you to cling onto edges, like in a magnetic like fashion wwhere you can literally be moving the opposite direction to the edge and grab onto it. That, i think is actually unrealistic if you want to argue from a realistic standpoint, and I think potentially gamebreaking from the perspective of gameplay. It promotes that ā€œpeekabooā€ gameplay where a person can fall back off a ledge and then get back up to the same ledge. Thats not the end of my complaints thou, as clambering, as it works now, allows you to grab ā€œhidden ledgesā€ found in the geometry of the mapā€¦ complicating matters for map design by a whole bunch.
> >
> > I can imagine people still want clamber despite all of these issues, but personally I rather not have itā€¦ except if its implemented in ā€œcommon senseā€ ways . For example , running and you hit a low obstacle and you hit A at the same time and you clamber right over it. Battle feild implements something similar to this. It helps the game stay on its feet and avoids the annoying pauses in the momentum the game has.
>
> Spartans have super strength so grabbing a ledge even if the momentum is moving away from the ledge is fine.
> Hidden ledges would get patched if they break the gameplay, thatā€™s not a big deal at all. We shouldnā€™t avoid features to negate exploits. Just fix the exploits.
>
> Although I like the idea of clambering or vaulting over low obstacles. Now we certainly donā€™t need wacky things like wallrunning but I like the idea of a pinch of parkour being added to the mix. Perhaps jump at a wall and press jump again to kick off the wall. Now this is all with thrusters removed mind you.
>
> Weā€™ve certainly advanced enough in technology do do basically anything in games. Old Halos by comparison look and feel really arcade-like. Like, theyā€™re not ā€œslickā€ per se. Lack of seamless transitions in movement.
>
> My current thoughts are remove thrusters but keep them for low gravity portions, I can take or leave sprint, keep clamber, and perhaps add low obstacle vaulting and wall-jumping. But perhaps limit that to one wall jump so we canā€™t do Mario-like jumps.
>
> Basically Halo 3 movement with a few parkour moves. Is that so bad?

So id argue similarily with sprint thou, why dont we just remove the negative exploits of sprint rather than remove it entirely ?
As for wall jumps im actually on board with that, but i dont think they should get you any higher. Like say you are against a wall , going up or down, I think a wall jump is a nice mechanic that could be implemented to leap off of the wall to create distance between you and the wall.

As for clamber again lolā€¦ Yes fix the exploits, but can you really imagine a supersoldier moving away from an edge and grabbing on to said ledge when it has nothing to grab on other than said ledge? Itsā€¦ Like i cant imagine that even if the spartan had superglue all over their hands, or even tire grade grips on their handsā€¦
Remember spartans are very heavy , and even if they can carry their own weight, momentum still is a thingā€¦
Picture a car moving ever so slowly, and then as it falls of the ledge an armā€¦ ONE armā€¦ grabs the ledgeā€¦ there is no way in hell that arm is going to stop the car from falling in that direction, let alone pull it back up. No matter how strong that arm is. IF, there was like a rail, then i can imagine it. Something to grip or to hold onto. If the spartan punched their hand into the structureā€¦ then id imagine this also would be possible.
But neihter of those are the case.

Now if you were already stopped already, thats an entirely different story.

But even from a gameplay perspective, I think my attitude towards any added movement mechanics is to facilitate motion, not increase it. If you are jumping up to a ledge and you already are going to make it, putting you up on that ledge with clamber is something im not opposed to.
Sliding down a slightly slanted wall and jumping off it just before you hit the ground to avoid the pause you would have otherwise got by waiting till the endā€¦ that is something id approve of.

In campagin some enemies clamber onto scenery where you could just jump up to. Why not, im onboard with that if you as a player could do that.

To me, whats bad about adding mechanics that enhance and make you a ā€œsuper soldierā€ is that it fundamentally changes how the gameplay will play out, and makes designing maps a headache, and makes players who want to gain an advantage and win play by a rather complex and complicated playstyle.
i value simplicity. Id appreciate if these features could be implemented in passive, intuitive ways ONLY to facilitate motionā€¦ not add onto it.

I mean I also get im getting old, and the only possible way im going to have fun in a game is if i can take more time strategizing with mundane choices rather than go the route of reflex and fire. If my playstyle isnt something people are a fan of then I guess im just gonna be left behind.

4074

Fingers crossed for classic movement. For me it would be an instant buy of both new xbox and infinite.

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> > > > > > Iā€™ve been playing halo since the OG xbox but if sprint gone so am I. I canā€™t go back to the slow movement of halo 3. If thatā€™s the case good bye halo I loved u so much
> > > > >
> > > > > What about the slow movement of CE?
> > > >
> > > > Yeah I dont want to play a slower halo. I loved CE but the multiplayer in H5 was better with sprint and it had the tightness of halo 2
> > >
> > > Halo 5ā€™s BMS was increased and is the highest of all the Halos.
> > > Halo CE-3 share the same BMS.
> > > Thereā€™s more to game pacing than just the BMS.
> > > I regret never testing out the ā€œLegacyā€ custom game mode, or whatever it was called. Though I saw many praising posts regarding it. Basically, further increased BMS, higher jump height, and ditched the other movement mechanics.
> > >
> > > As far as Infinite goes, I doubt anything will be ditched from Halo 5 in terms of movement mechanics, or not much anyway.
> >
> > I hope not I canā€™t think of a current fps with slow movement thatā€™s crazy that a lot of people want the H3 movement
>
> CS:GO topping steam charts everyday, Valorant topping Twitch most watched everyday since it released last month. Literally the two biggest FPSā€™s on the market right now.
>
> So it seems ā€œslowā€ movement actually is more popular than Titanfall movement. Hence why majority of games that pushed that trend of gameplay are no longer doing it.

This is a VERY good point.

4076

Play Halo 5 for two weeks, then go play Halo 3 for two weeks. I find the classic Halosā€™ movement more casual and fun to play, but I dont hate 5, with all that said. What we will likely see in Infinite is Halo 5 movement with spartan charge and ground pound removed. Iā€™m calling it right now.

4077

Guys - its been discussed to death. But objectively, we know that to uphold Haloā€™s core elements of fair play and equal starts that Halo should return to its more classic playstyle. Iā€™m HAPPY to have some elements of newer gameplay involved, but Haloā€™s identity is more important.

GUNS, GRENADES AND MELEE.

Super soldiers donā€™t need to put their guns down to sprint, they are always sprinting.

Please 343, please donā€™t have sprint - Iā€™m begging ya.

4078

Me: Looks at comments and the overall stupidity of how many minutes so many human beings will never get back in their lives.

Also Me: To be honest, I donā€™t CARE!..ahem

4079

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> Me: Looks at comments and the overall stupidity of how many minutes so many human beings will never get back in their lives.
>
> Also Me: To be honest, I donā€™t CARE!..ahem

To be fair, we waste all these minutes arguing for the quality of a game we all very much hope to waste millions of minutes playing. Iā€™d argue you waste more of your time exclaiming how you donā€™t care than we do explaining what kind of game we would like 343 to make for us. If our endless arguments make a difference in the end product, then itā€™s not a waste at all.

4080

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> > 2535438636443468;4078:
> > Me: Looks at comments and the overall stupidity of how many minutes so many human beings will never get back in their lives.
> >
> > Also Me: To be honest, I donā€™t CARE!..ahem
>
> To be fair, we waste all these minutes arguing for the quality of a game we all very much hope to waste millions of minutes playing. Iā€™d argue you waste more of your time exclaiming how you donā€™t care than we do explaining what kind of game we would like 343 to make for us. If our endless arguments make a difference in the end product, then itā€™s not a waste at all.

Welp, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is that even though I want 343 to remove sprint, I certainly donā€™t think that arguing and yelling and debating at each other will change 343ā€™s opinion. What Iā€™m saying is, this discussion might very well have prevented 343 from making the terrible mistake of using sprint in itā€™s first few months of debating life. But at this point, so close to the reveal and yet we still are arguing with each other about it, makes no sense to me. If 343 has developed the game at all. Movement is far, far, far, far behind. Almost every balance, mechanic, design, and sound choice is wrapped around movement. With release less than half a year away. 343 simply does not have the time to change it. So while healthy and friendly discussion over what you think movement will be like is quite good, arguing and yelling at each other is useless. So, I love this discussion but Iā€™m just letting you know that arguments and even heated debates are simply a total. utter. waste. of time. And that breaking peopleā€™s hearts is totally useless because there is no changing it anymore. The gate is closed. What I fully support is friendly conversation about how HYPED we are that Halo Infiniteā€™s reveal is LESS THAN 2 WEEKS AWAY!!! Yes, the moment we have been waiting for has arrived. And I simply have seen too many discussions like this one demolished because some idiot decided to make everyone like his point at all costs. So lets not get carried away. The hour is at hand. In 10 days, Halo Infinite finally shows itā€™s darkest secrets in gameplay to the WHOLE WIDE WORLD! (girly screams) So bar out all idiotic behavior, grab your popcorn, set your clocks, and lug your MARSHMALLOW PILLOWS toward the TV, cuz ITS TIME! gā€™day

4081

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> > 2535449076192416;4079:
> > > 2535438636443468;4078:
> > > Me: Looks at comments and the overall stupidity of how many minutes so many human beings will never get back in their lives.
> > >
> > > Also Me: To be honest, I donā€™t CARE!..ahem
> >
> > To be fair, we waste all these minutes arguing for the quality of a game we all very much hope to waste millions of minutes playing. Iā€™d argue you waste more of your time exclaiming how you donā€™t care than we do explaining what kind of game we would like 343 to make for us. If our endless arguments make a difference in the end product, then itā€™s not a waste at all.
>
> Welp, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is that even though I want 343 to remove sprint, I certainly donā€™t think that arguing and yelling and debating at each other will change 343ā€™s opinion. What Iā€™m saying is, this discussion might very well have prevented 343 from making the terrible mistake of using sprint in itā€™s first few months of debating life. But at this point, so close to the reveal and yet we still are arguing with each other about it, makes no sense to me. If 343 has developed the game at all. Movement is far, far, far, far behind. Almost every balance, mechanic, design, and sound choice is wrapped around movement. With release less than half a year away. 343 simply does not have the time to change it. So while healthy and friendly discussion over what you think movement will be like is quite good, arguing and yelling at each other is useless. So, I love this discussion but Iā€™m just letting you know that arguments and even heated debates are simply a total. utter. waste. of time. And that breaking peopleā€™s hearts is totally useless because there is no changing it anymore. The gate is closed. What I fully support is friendly conversation about how HYPED we are that Halo Infiniteā€™s reveal is LESS THAN 2 WEEKS AWAY!!! Yes, the moment we have been waiting for has arrived. And I simply have seen too many discussions like this one demolished because some idiot decided to make everyone like his point at all costs. So lets not get carried away. The hour is at hand. In 10 days, Halo Infinite finally shows itā€™s darkest secrets in gameplay to the WHOLE WIDE WORLD! (girly screams) So bar out all idiotic behavior, grab your popcorn, set your clocks, and lug your MARSHMALLOW PILLOWS toward the TV, cuz ITS TIME! gā€™day

Tbh, I think the only value there is in life imo is having social interactionsā€¦ and I value discussions even if they dont change anything. I find enjoyment in conflict, in challenge, in discovery and learning about other people. Discussing things here may not change anything atm, but I still find it extremely valuable to hear out what other people have to say. I learn about other perspectives and I think i end up appreciating them alot more than i would have , should I not have chosen to participate in such discussions.

This extends to even heated debates where sometimes one or more of the participants are hard headed. Sure nobody may be convinced, but at least they recognize other people may hold opinions different to their own. I think thats relatively healthy.

So I guess what applies here is one mans garbage is another mans goldā€¦ one mans trash is another manā€™s treasure.
I find what you call useless of great value. Although I would agree, yelling at each other is less useful than a civil conversation.

And indeed im fired up and hyped for the gameplay thats merely 10 days away