The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > you didnt address my last point. “if we gave halo 3 halo 5’s weapon balance even without sprint it would create the same long range boring precision shooter.” so if we give halo 3 halo 5’s weapon balance, it will ruin it. we give halo 5 halo 3’s weapon balance, i can only see improvements. i even think it will play close to classic halo and i know sprint cant be removed because thats what 5 is designed for. thats obvious.
> >
> > “likewise, you can’t simply balance away Halo 5’s problems either.” you would be surprised how easy it would be to re balance it all because like ive said, sprint, map size is not the main thing breaking halo. if only you could understand how bad the weapon balance is and how it affects player behavior.
> >
> > the reason im supporting sprint is because its not going anywhere im afraid. im just trying to help people to understand that we should be alot more worried about weapon balance anyway.
>
> Your point is irrelevant, throwing a weapon sandbox designed for a different game with different mechanics is never going to end well. Putting that aside I don’t think Halo 3’s balance is very good either for a variety of reasons. I don’t think adding Halo 3’s “balance” to Halo 5 would result in a much better game.
>
> I have not said anything to the effect of “sprint is the main thing breaking Halo” This isn’t a zero sum game. There can be multiple causes to any given problem that can feed off one another and make it worse. My overarching points with my initial post is that 1.) Precision weapons are always going to be the lynch-pin of Halo gameplay. and 2.) Sprint contributes to an increase an increase in map size which leads to an increase in “long range gameplay.”
>
> If course if you think sprint isn’t going anywhere(I’m certainly not very hopeful it will get removed) then I don’t blame you for focusing on weapon design and balance. Lord knows I’ve had my own complaints about many aspects of the Halo weapon sandbox over the years. I just don’t think you can hand wave away sprints influence on the game and the sandbox at large. You can do your absolute best to mitigate its effects on the rest of the game, but you simply can’t escape the influence of base movement mechanics in its entirety.

just because you add sprint doesnt mean you have to change halo 3’s weapon balance . that is just dumb. the only thing that needs to change is map size and then what you have is a slower paced halo 3 which might not be so bad. it is just idiotic to mess with weapon balance just because a player can move faster or the map is bigger

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> just because you add sprint doesnt mean you have to change halo 3’s weapon balance . that is just dumb. the only thing that needs to change is map size and then what you have is a slower paced halo 3 which might not be so bad. it is just idiotic to mess with weapon balance just because a player can move faster or the map is bigger

That is just a fact of life for game design. Imagine saying this about anything else in Halo or any other game for that matter.

“Its idiotic to mess with weapon balance just because a player has recharging energy shields.” or “Its idiotic to mess with weapon balance just because a player can ski in Tribes” “Its idiotic to mess with weapon balance just because you can ADS in CoD.” You don’t design and balance a weapon sandbox in a vacuum.

Also Halo 3 with larger maps and a slower pace sounds awful. Just magnifying all of Halo 3’s worst flaws. I like Halo 3 for what it was/is, but throwing in sprint and larger maps without changing anything about Halo 3’s weapon balance would be awful. The ability to sprint and escape would drag out H3’s already long TTK which would only be magnified by the larger maps and the BR/Carbines random spread. Sniper would be even more oppressive than they were already(on account of the BR’s awful spread), and close range weapons like the AR/SMG/etc would be even more useless on average than they already were.

Again if you want to focus on weapon balance that is your prerogative, but designing a weapon sandbox around the core mechanics of your game isn’t “idiotic” its just good game design. As demonstrated by Halo 5 the end result isn’t always good, but Halo 5 wouldn’t have been any better had they just pretended sprint didn’t exist when they were designing maps and weapons and that would be impossible to do in the first place. As I said before core mechanics, map design, and sandbox balance are inextricably linked.

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> > 2533274821339472;3982:
> > just because you add sprint doesnt mean you have to change halo 3’s weapon balance . that is just dumb. the only thing that needs to change is map size and then what you have is a slower paced halo 3 which might not be so bad. it is just idiotic to mess with weapon balance just because a player can move faster or the map is bigger
>
> That is just a fact of life for game design. Imagine saying this about anything else in Halo or any other game for that matter.
>
> “Its idiotic to mess with weapon balance just because a player has recharging energy shields.” or “Its idiotic to mess with weapon balance just because a player can ski in Tribes” “Its idiotic to mess with weapon balance just because you can ADS in CoD.” You don’t design and balance a weapon sandbox in a vacuum.
>
> Also Halo 3 with larger maps and a slower pace sounds awful. Just magnifying all of Halo 3’s worst flaws. I like Halo 3 for what it was/is, but throwing in sprint and larger maps without changing anything about Halo 3’s weapon balance would be awful. The ability to sprint and escape would drag out H3’s already long TTK which would only be magnified by the larger maps and the BR/Carbines random spread. Sniper would be even more oppressive than they were already(on account of the BR’s awful spread), and close range weapons like the AR/SMG/etc would be even more useless on average than they already were.
>
> Again if you want to focus on weapon balance that is your prerogative, but designing a weapon sandbox around the core mechanics of your game isn’t “idiotic” its just good game design. As demonstrated by Halo 5 the end result isn’t always good, but Halo 5 wouldn’t have been any better had they just pretended sprint didn’t exist when they were designing maps and weapons and that would be impossible to do in the first place. As I said before core mechanics, map design, and sandbox balance are inextricably linked.

they would be valid reasons but moving 20% faster and maps being 20% bigger is not a valid reason to mess with weapon balance. a solution for the sniper if it really is an issue then make it projectile based. solved. better choice than making all the other weapons compete against the sniper like a dumb designer and breaking everything. classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout

ttk would be the same because engagements would still happen at the same distances because the weapon balance influences that exact behaviour. also when shot you cant sprint away. a lot of halo’s balance would remain the same but engaging an enemie will take a little longer. that could be a good thing, less sweaty, nice little breathers

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> 2533274821339472;3984:
> they would be valid reasons but moving 20% faster and maps being 20% bigger is not a valid reason to mess with weapon balance. a solution for the sniper if it really is an issue then make it projectile based. solved. better choice than making all the other weapons compete against the sniper like a dumb designer and breaking everything. classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout
>
> ttk would be the same because engagements would still happen at the same distances because the weapon balance influences that exact behaviour. also when shot you cant sprint away. a lot of halo’s balance would remain the same but engaging an enemie will take a little longer. that could be a good thing, less sweaty, nice little breathers

Unfortunately, you’re alone in wanting a slower game. The one thing most people—whether they love or hate sprint—seem to agree on is that fast gameplay is fun. The main criticism you hear for Halo 3 is that it feels slow. Making that even slower is not a good call from a popularity point of view.

> 2533274821339472;3984:
> classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout

This is demonstrably false: Halo CE spawned you with the Magnum. Beyond that, Slayer BRs was a popular gametype in both Halo 2 and 3, and in fact, the whole AR/SMG start thing has always received pushback from the community. It turns out that if you don’t spawn the player with a precision wapon, they will feel helpless and games will be more lopsided.

And if you go look at Halo 3, the reason you remember it being close range focused was because of the AR spawns. The truth is that the BR, despite its shortcomings, still plays like a precision weapon, and avoiding close range encounters is preferable because melee fights are a coin flip. Furthermore, in AR start games, there actually is an incentive to stay even further away beyond the AR’s range if one has a BR because that’s how you maximize your advantage.

If you actually want to know how the Halo 3 BR plays when maps are large and open, seek out a Slayer BRs match on one of those really bad, open maps like Snowbound, and see how that works out. See, maps in Halo 3 have been designed without the restrictions of sprint, and the better designed ones use this for blocking sight lines and tighter corridors, neither of which would work with sprint. This map design is what often forces close range encounters.

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> they would be valid reasons but moving 20% faster and maps being 20% bigger is not a valid reason to mess with weapon balance.

“Increasing shield strength by 20% is not a valid reason to mess with weapon balance.” That is the exact same argument you are giving me. Stick your head in the sand all you want, the addition of sprint(or shoot even a straight up 20% movement buff) is going to end up affecting the sandbox. Its unavoidable that sprint and map design is going to have an effect on the sandbox.

> a solution for the sniper if it really is an issue then make it projectile based. solved. better choice than making all the other weapons compete against the sniper like a dumb designer and breaking everything. classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout

In other words you’ve “messed with” the balance of the sniper in order to account for sprint… The utility precision weapon you spawn with has always been a jack of all trades weapon. Meaning its usable at close,mid, and long range. from the CE Pistol to the BR to the DMR to the H5 Magnum, the main spawn weapon has always been a check on the power of the sniper rifle and other power weapons. Power weapons are not meant to be “I win” buttons with no effective counterplay. Both Classic Halo games and newer Halo games revolve around versatile headshot weapons that allow respawning players to fight back in most situations. Players have never been limited to “close/mid” range in any Halo game with proper precision starts.

> ttk would be the same because engagements would still happen at the same distances because the weapon balance influences that exact behaviour. also when shot you cant sprint away. a lot of halo’s balance would remain the same but engaging an enemie will take a little longer. that could be a good thing, less sweaty, nice little breathers.

Weapon balance does indeed influence player behavior, but what I’ve been trying to explain to you this entire time is that it is not the sole influence on player behavior. If all it took to keep player’s from drawing out the TTK by sprinting away was if shooting them stopped them from sprinting this thread wouldn’t be 200 pages long. None of the implementations of sprint in Halo have effectively stopped players from escaping with sprint. At the end of the day, sprint would still slow down Halo 3’s already slow TTK even more, especially when combined with the BR/Carbine’s awful spread already struggling to deal with any moving targets. So we still end up with a even slower Halo 3 only with more dead time between getting to the shooting part of a shooter. Breathers are great for single player, in multiplayer you get a break when either you are respawning or the enemy is.

3987

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> > 2533274821339472;3984:
> > they would be valid reasons but moving 20% faster and maps being 20% bigger is not a valid reason to mess with weapon balance. a solution for the sniper if it really is an issue then make it projectile based. solved. better choice than making all the other weapons compete against the sniper like a dumb designer and breaking everything. classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout
> >
> > ttk would be the same because engagements would still happen at the same distances because the weapon balance influences that exact behaviour. also when shot you cant sprint away. a lot of halo’s balance would remain the same but engaging an enemie will take a little longer. that could be a good thing, less sweaty, nice little breathers
>
> Unfortunately, you’re alone in wanting a slower game. The one thing most people—whether they love or hate sprint—seem to agree on is that fast gameplay is fun. The main criticism you hear for Halo 3 is that it feels slow. Making that even slower is not a good call from a popularity point of view.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;3984:
> > classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout
>
> This is demonstrably false: Halo CE spawned you with the Magnum. Beyond that, Slayer BRs was a popular gametype in both Halo 2 and 3, and in fact, the whole AR/SMG start thing has always received pushback from the community. It turns out that if you don’t spawn the player with a precision wapon, they will feel helpless and games will be more lopsided.
>
> And if you go look at Halo 3, the reason you remember it being close range focused was because of the AR spawns. The truth is that the BR, despite its shortcomings, still plays like a precision weapon, and avoiding close range encounters is preferable because melee fights are a con flip. Furthermore, in AR start games, there actually is an incentive to stay even further away beyond the AR’s range if one has a BR because that’s how you maximize your advantage.
>
> If you actually want to know how the Halo 3 BR plays when maps are large and open, seek out a Slayer BRs match on one of those really bad, open maps like Snowbound, and see how that works out. See, maps in Halo 3 have been designed without the restrictions of sprint, and the better designed ones use this for blocking sight lines and tighter corridors, neither of which would work with sprint. This map design is what often forces close range encounters.

no, people complain that you cant sprint in halo 3, not that the combat itself is slow. i dont want a slower game.

i never played 1 and 2. when i say classic halo i mean the most successful multiplayer in the series that most people regard as the best.

Like it or not but the majority of population liked AR just as much as BR. People like that it offers 2 different play styles. Believe it or not, outmaneuvering a br through map traversal to use the ar effectivatly is its own skill and why people enjoyed it. ar in halo 5 is just another precision weapon but a cheap one that takes no skill .

yes i know the br has to stay away from ar to be effective and that was the beauty of it as you couldnt stay away too far otherwise the br is no longer in range to effectively kill. perfect balance because it gave ar always a chance with the correct map traversal to turn the tables on a br user.

im not sure what your last point is trying to make but the problem i had with snowbound was the top was so open, all it was, was sweaty br team play with no way to combat it with ar. the only counter was to have my own team of sweaty br users. snowbound actually feels like halo 5’s multiplayer, lol

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> we give halo 5 halo 3’s weapon balance, i can only see improvements.

I’m not so sure about that because now we would have weapons which are less effective from long range thus the need to constantly sprint to start any type of fight.
In other words we would have to sprint (without the possibility to shoot) for half of the time just to get close enough to a enemy making the gameplay really slow and boring, plus it would be really really difficult to approach a player who is controlling a power position with a sniper or another long range precision weapon.

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> > 2533274821339472;3984:
> > they would be valid reasons but moving 20% faster and maps being 20% bigger is not a valid reason to mess with weapon balance.
>
> “Increasing shield strength by 20% is not a valid reason to mess with weapon balance.” That is the exact same argument you are giving me. Stick your head in the sand all you want, the addition of sprint(or shoot even a straight up 20% movement buff) is going to end up affecting the sandbox. Its unavoidable that sprint and map design is going to have an effect on the sandbox.
>
>
> > a solution for the sniper if it really is an issue then make it projectile based. solved. better choice than making all the other weapons compete against the sniper like a dumb designer and breaking everything. classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout
>
> In other words you’ve “messed with” the balance of the sniper in order to account for sprint… The utility precision weapon you spawn with has always been a jack of all trades weapon. Meaning its usable at close,mid, and long range. from the CE Pistol to the BR to the DMR to the H5 Magnum, the main spawn weapon has always been a check on the power of the sniper rifle and other power weapons. Power weapons are not meant to be “I win” buttons with no effective counterplay. Both Classic Halo games and newer Halo games revolve around versatile headshot weapons that allow respawning players to fight back in most situations. Players have never been limited to “close/mid” range in any Halo game with proper precision starts.
>
>
> > ttk would be the same because engagements would still happen at the same distances because the weapon balance influences that exact behaviour. also when shot you cant sprint away. a lot of halo’s balance would remain the same but engaging an enemie will take a little longer. that could be a good thing, less sweaty, nice little breathers.
>
> Weapon balance does indeed influence player behavior, but what I’ve been trying to explain to you this entire time is that it is not the sole influence on player behavior. If all it took to keep player’s from drawing out the TTK by sprinting away was if shooting them stopped them from sprinting this thread wouldn’t be 200 pages long. None of the implementations of sprint in Halo have effectively stopped players from escaping with sprint. At the end of the day, sprint would still slow down Halo 3’s already slow TTK even more, especially when combined with the BR/Carbine’s awful spread already struggling to deal with any moving targets. So we still end up with a even slower Halo 3 only with more dead time between getting to the shooting part of a shooter. Breathers are great for single player, in multiplayer you get a break when either you are respawning or the enemy is.

we are going round in circles. lets just say none of us would really know the outcome unless it we actually playtested. i’ll come back to this topic after infinite multiplayer to see if theres more to be said.

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> > we give halo 5 halo 3’s weapon balance, i can only see improvements.
>
> I’m not so sure about that because now we would have weapons which are less effective from long range thus the need to constantly sprint to start any type of fight.
> In other words we would have to sprint (without the possibility to shoot) for half of the time just to get close enough to a enemy making the gameplay really slow and boring, plus it would be really really difficult to challenge a player who is controlling a power position with a sniper or another long range precision weapon.

you seem to be exaggerating. halo 3 weapon balance is still useful

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> > 2533274825830455;3985:
> > > 2533274821339472;3984:
> > > they would be valid reasons but moving 20% faster and maps being 20% bigger is not a valid reason to mess with weapon balance. a solution for the sniper if it really is an issue then make it projectile based. solved. better choice than making all the other weapons compete against the sniper like a dumb designer and breaking everything. classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout
> > >
> > > ttk would be the same because engagements would still happen at the same distances because the weapon balance influences that exact behaviour. also when shot you cant sprint away. a lot of halo’s balance would remain the same but engaging an enemie will take a little longer. that could be a good thing, less sweaty, nice little breathers
> >
> > Unfortunately, you’re alone in wanting a slower game. The one thing most people—whether they love or hate sprint—seem to agree on is that fast gameplay is fun. The main criticism you hear for Halo 3 is that it feels slow. Making that even slower is not a good call from a popularity point of view.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274821339472;3984:
> > > classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout
> >
> > This is demonstrably false: Halo CE spawned you with the Magnum. Beyond that, Slayer BRs was a popular gametype in both Halo 2 and 3, and in fact, the whole AR/SMG start thing has always received pushback from the community. It turns out that if you don’t spawn the player with a precision wapon, they will feel helpless and games will be more lopsided.
> >
> > And if you go look at Halo 3, the reason you remember it being close range focused was because of the AR spawns. The truth is that the BR, despite its shortcomings, still plays like a precision weapon, and avoiding close range encounters is preferable because melee fights are a con flip. Furthermore, in AR start games, there actually is an incentive to stay even further away beyond the AR’s range if one has a BR because that’s how you maximize your advantage.
> >
> > If you actually want to know how the Halo 3 BR plays when maps are large and open, seek out a Slayer BRs match on one of those really bad, open maps like Snowbound, and see how that works out. See, maps in Halo 3 have been designed without the restrictions of sprint, and the better designed ones use this for blocking sight lines and tighter corridors, neither of which would work with sprint. This map design is what often forces close range encounters.
>
> no, people complain that you cant sprint in halo 3, not that the combat itself is slow. i dont want a slower game.

No, people complain Halo 3 feels slow because of it’s terrible fov (field of view). Go look at videos of the Halo 3 flights on the PC for the MCC, they adjusted the fov and maybe the bsm too and it looks very fast. I would love the ability to adjust fov in Halo games, it would help a lot.

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> > 2533274821339472;3987:
> > > 2533274825830455;3985:
> > > > 2533274821339472;3984:
> > > > they would be valid reasons but moving 20% faster and maps being 20% bigger is not a valid reason to mess with weapon balance. a solution for the sniper if it really is an issue then make it projectile based. solved. better choice than making all the other weapons compete against the sniper like a dumb designer and breaking everything. classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout
> > > >
> > > > ttk would be the same because engagements would still happen at the same distances because the weapon balance influences that exact behaviour. also when shot you cant sprint away. a lot of halo’s balance would remain the same but engaging an enemie will take a little longer. that could be a good thing, less sweaty, nice little breathers
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, you’re alone in wanting a slower game. The one thing most people—whether they love or hate sprint—seem to agree on is that fast gameplay is fun. The main criticism you hear for Halo 3 is that it feels slow. Making that even slower is not a good call from a popularity point of view.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274821339472;3984:
> > > > classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout
> > >
> > > This is demonstrably false: Halo CE spawned you with the Magnum. Beyond that, Slayer BRs was a popular gametype in both Halo 2 and 3, and in fact, the whole AR/SMG start thing has always received pushback from the community. It turns out that if you don’t spawn the player with a precision wapon, they will feel helpless and games will be more lopsided.
> > >
> > > And if you go look at Halo 3, the reason you remember it being close range focused was because of the AR spawns. The truth is that the BR, despite its shortcomings, still plays like a precision weapon, and avoiding close range encounters is preferable because melee fights are a con flip. Furthermore, in AR start games, there actually is an incentive to stay even further away beyond the AR’s range if one has a BR because that’s how you maximize your advantage.
> > >
> > > If you actually want to know how the Halo 3 BR plays when maps are large and open, seek out a Slayer BRs match on one of those really bad, open maps like Snowbound, and see how that works out. See, maps in Halo 3 have been designed without the restrictions of sprint, and the better designed ones use this for blocking sight lines and tighter corridors, neither of which would work with sprint. This map design is what often forces close range encounters.
> >
> > no, people complain that you cant sprint in halo 3, not that the combat itself is slow. i dont want a slower game.
>
> No, people complain Halo 3 feels slow because of it’s terrible fov (field of view). Go look at videos of the Halo 3 flights on the PC for the MCC, they adjusted the fov and maybe the bsm too and it looks very fast. I would love the ability to adjust fov in Halo games, it would help a lot.

new players that play halo 3, instantly want sprint

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> > 2592250499819446;3991:
> > > 2533274821339472;3987:
> > > > 2533274825830455;3985:
> > > > > 2533274821339472;3984:
> > > > > they would be valid reasons but moving 20% faster and maps being 20% bigger is not a valid reason to mess with weapon balance. a solution for the sniper if it really is an issue then make it projectile based. solved. better choice than making all the other weapons compete against the sniper like a dumb designer and breaking everything. classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout
> > > > >
> > > > > ttk would be the same because engagements would still happen at the same distances because the weapon balance influences that exact behaviour. also when shot you cant sprint away. a lot of halo’s balance would remain the same but engaging an enemie will take a little longer. that could be a good thing, less sweaty, nice little breathers
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, you’re alone in wanting a slower game. The one thing most people—whether they love or hate sprint—seem to agree on is that fast gameplay is fun. The main criticism you hear for Halo 3 is that it feels slow. Making that even slower is not a good call from a popularity point of view.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2533274821339472;3984:
> > > > > classic halo has always been about close/medium ranged combat starting loadout
> > > >
> > > > This is demonstrably false: Halo CE spawned you with the Magnum. Beyond that, Slayer BRs was a popular gametype in both Halo 2 and 3, and in fact, the whole AR/SMG start thing has always received pushback from the community. It turns out that if you don’t spawn the player with a precision wapon, they will feel helpless and games will be more lopsided.
> > > >
> > > > And if you go look at Halo 3, the reason you remember it being close range focused was because of the AR spawns. The truth is that the BR, despite its shortcomings, still plays like a precision weapon, and avoiding close range encounters is preferable because melee fights are a con flip. Furthermore, in AR start games, there actually is an incentive to stay even further away beyond the AR’s range if one has a BR because that’s how you maximize your advantage.
> > > >
> > > > If you actually want to know how the Halo 3 BR plays when maps are large and open, seek out a Slayer BRs match on one of those really bad, open maps like Snowbound, and see how that works out. See, maps in Halo 3 have been designed without the restrictions of sprint, and the better designed ones use this for blocking sight lines and tighter corridors, neither of which would work with sprint. This map design is what often forces close range encounters.
> > >
> > > no, people complain that you cant sprint in halo 3, not that the combat itself is slow. i dont want a slower game.
> >
> > No, people complain Halo 3 feels slow because of it’s terrible fov (field of view). Go look at videos of the Halo 3 flights on the PC for the MCC, they adjusted the fov and maybe the bsm too and it looks very fast. I would love the ability to adjust fov in Halo games, it would help a lot.
>
> new players that play halo 3, instantly want sprint

That’s very silly then. If they researched a little they would soon realise that Halo 3 feels slow because of it’s terrible fov, not the lack of sprint. You can have fast gameplay without sprint. As I stated, check out the recent flight videos of Halo 3 for the MCC for the PC, it’s very fast.

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> new players that play halo 3, instantly want sprint

Source?

> 2533274821339472;3992:
> Like it or not but the majority of population liked AR just as much as BR

Source?

3995

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> > 2533274821339472;3992:
> > new players that play halo 3, instantly want sprint
>
> Source?
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821339472;3992:
> > Like it or not but the majority of population liked AR just as much as BR
>
> Source?

my source is common sense and experiance of other people. plus i personally used to enjoy ar MORE than br in halo 3. if you want a factual source go find a poll. there have been plenty

3996

> 2533274821339472;3987:
> no, people complain that you cant sprint in halo 3, not that the combat itself is slow.

People complain that Halo 3 is slow, period. They don’t usually elaborate further what they mean by that.

> 2533274821339472;3982:
> the only thing that needs to change is map size and then what you have is a slower paced halo 3 which might not be so bad.

> 2533274821339472;3984:
> engaging an enemie will take a little longer. that could be a good thing, less sweaty, nice little breathers

> 2533274821339472;3987:
> i dont want a slower game.

Don’t you?

> 2533274821339472;3987:
> i never played 1 and 2. when i say classic halo i mean the most successful multiplayer in the series that most people regard as the best.

Halo 3 wins any kind of popularity contest by default, because “most people” did not play Halo CE or 2 either.

But that’s besides the point, because Slayer BRs was a gametype in Halo 3 also. I’m sure a lot of Halo 3 fans would tell you that they preferred spawning with the BR over the AR. And I’m sure a lot of Halo 3 fans would tell you that they didn’t like the spread on the BR. I don’t need to take a stance on what Halo game is the best. If you think any of them is perfect, you lack imagination.

> 2533274821339472;3987:
> Like it or not but the majority of population liked AR just as much as BR. People like that it offers 2 different play styles. Believe it or not, outmaneuvering a br through map traversal to use the ar effectivatly is its own skill and why people enjoyed it. ar in halo 5 is just another precision weapon but a cheap one that takes no skill

Ah, yes, the old “AR is a skillful weapon”. No it’s not. The skill of “outmaneuvering” a player has nothing to do with the weapon you have. It’s just a generic skill, applicable to any weapon. Beyond that, in Halo 3 it’s impossible to use the AR “effectively”, because it’s so weak that it’s at a disadvantage against the BR even at close range. If you’re playing Halo 3, and you’re not seeking to get a BR in your hands, you’re playing suboptimally.

> 2533274821339472;3987:
> yes i know the br has to stay away from ar to be effective and that was the beauty of it as you couldnt stay away too far otherwise the br is no longer in range to effectively kill. perfect balance because it gave ar always a chance with the correct map traversal to turn the tables on a br user.

No, you misinterpreted what I said. I said “in AR start games, there actually is an incentive to stay even further away beyond the AR’s range if one has a BR because that’s how you maximize your advantage”. Emphasis on “maximize”. As I noted above, the BR is superior against the AR in practically every scenario. It’s just that at long range, the AR has no chance whatsoever. The BR doesn’t have to stay far—it’s never at a disadvantage. Staying far is merely optimal.

So, just to reiterate: the Halo 3 AR is inherently (and famously) a really weak weapon. It is less effective than a BR at every range. The only way the AR could ever beat a BR is if either the BR user aimed poorly, or if the AR user managed to sneak up on the BR user.

> 2533274821339472;3987:
> im not sure what your last point is trying to make but the problem i had with snowbound was the top was so open, all it was, was sweaty br team play with no way to combat it with ar. the only counter was to have my own team of sweaty br users. snowbound actually feels like halo 5’s multiplayer, lol

The point was that if Halo 3 encouraged close range encounters, it was solely because of map design. If you put a Halo 3 match on a map that isn’t designed to force players into close range encounters, you get gameplay that, in your own words, “feels like halo 5’s multiplayer”. So, we can conclude that the problem here isn’t weapon balance, but map design. Map design, which in Halo 5 is the way it is solely because of Sprint and other Spartan Abilities.

3997

Halo 3 had the worst weapon balancing of the Bungie Halo games. Why? Because all of the weapons except the sniper rifle were weak.

The rockets had a small blast radius and unreliable damage. the shotgun was useless, so useless the mauler was better, which was also weak. I won’t go through all the weapons but read this knowing i can if asked. The H3 BR was the weakest precision weapon start in Halo history, it had a large spread and the bullets only travelled a short range (shooting across a BTB map wasn’t possible unlike CE, 2, reach or 4) coupled with poor netcode, it was a nightmare. Reach DMR with bloom was more effective at any range further than the staple H3 close-mid.

H3 maps just had shorter lines of sight and promoted CQB. As long as sprint forces the player to move OR shoot then close quarters gameplay becomes broken as the player who chooses to move is always in a more powerful position, as the player who chooses to shoot is effectively stationary by comparison. If they choose to move after them instead then by chasing they are also in the weaker position as they are more vulnerable. Unless the maps are very open then the power is always with the player who runs first. This makes the games rate of completion slower and less punishing overall, aside from 1SK actions many difficult/skillful manoeuvres or pushes can be avoided with a button press and mindlessness.

If you can move AND shoot then there is no reason for 2 modes of movement speed aside from adding extra junk players have to navigate around in order to play, the faster movement speed should be the base move speed.

The crux of sprint vs classic is that if pro-sprint concedes move OR shoot then there is no effective reason for the mechanic at all. The arguement of pro-classic is that moving OR shooting is less aggressive, less skillful and adds no uniquely positive quality to the game.

3998

> 2533274821339472;3995:
> > 2533274801973487;3994:
> > > 2533274821339472;3992:
> > > new players that play halo 3, instantly want sprint
> >
> > Source?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274821339472;3992:
> > > Like it or not but the majority of population liked AR just as much as BR
> >
> > Source?
>
> my source is common sense and experiance of other people. plus i personally used to enjoy ar MORE than br in halo 3. if you want a factual source go find a poll. there have been plenty

So you’re right because you think you’re right? Seems a bit narcissistic…
We’ve talked about the shortcomings of polls a lot, I really don’t feel like going over it once again especially for someone who likes to make up his own reality to fit his needs…

3999

> 2533274801973487;3998:
> > 2533274821339472;3995:
> > > 2533274801973487;3994:
> > > > 2533274821339472;3992:
> > > > new players that play halo 3, instantly want sprint
> > >
> > > Source?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274821339472;3992:
> > > > Like it or not but the majority of population liked AR just as much as BR
> > >
> > > Source?
> >
> > my source is common sense and experiance of other people. plus i personally used to enjoy ar MORE than br in halo 3. if you want a factual source go find a poll. there have been plenty
>
> So you’re right because you think you’re right? Seems a bit narcissistic…
> We’ve talked about the shortcomings of polls a lot, I really don’t feel like going over it once again especially for someone who likes to make up his own reality to fit his needs…

bloody hell, what do you want me to do, create a mind reading device and scan the entire halo’s population thoughts on whether they like ar just as much as br in halo 3 or would that be unreliable too

4000

> 2533274821339472;3999:
> bloody hell, what do you want me to do, create a mind reading device and scan the entire halo’s population thoughts on whether they like ar just as much as br in halo 3 or would that be unreliable too

Well, if you think there is a poll with a statistical sample that you trust to be good, you could at least offer people the courtesy of linking to it instead of telling them to go look for one. You know, because that’s how burden of proof works: you make a calim, you back it up. “Common sense” and personal experience are not valid sources.

4001

> 2533274825830455;4000:
> > 2533274821339472;3999:
> > bloody hell, what do you want me to do, create a mind reading device and scan the entire halo’s population thoughts on whether they like ar just as much as br in halo 3 or would that be unreliable too
>
> Well, if you think there is a poll with a statistical sample that you trust to be good, you could at least offer people the courtesy of linking to it instead of telling them to go look for one. You know, because that’s how burden of proof works: you make a calim, you back it up. “Common sense” and personal experience are not valid sources.

well i apologize for saying how i feel about the community but isnt it obvious the ar was a popular weapon in halo 3? i’m not gonna bother dragging up polls, especially if they already dont mean anything according to one poster. things are just getting petty now. what doesnt help is im typing all this out on a bloody virtual keyboard with a mouse because keyboard is broke.lol im not prepared to write deep descussions in this moment in time. all i can give is these half -Yoinked!- replies