> 2535443086376305;3901:
> I’d love classic movement to return
Everyone is having these huge arguments and making all of these points for why infinite should do this and that, and you just wrote a sentence. I love it!
> 2535472162796694;3902:
> > 2535443086376305;3901:
> > I’d love classic movement to return
>
> Everyone is having these huge arguments and making all of these points for why infinite should do this and that, and you just wrote a sentence. I love it!
Haha, thanks, I’m not in the mood to argue it tonight, lol
> 2533274866906624;3893:
> > 2533274987750648;3891:
> > Hey what do you guys believe to be the perfect middle ground between classic and modern halo?
>
> I believe it’s not good to compromise. Either has to be all in one way or another. Preferably no sprint.
The best compromise I can think of is separation between gamemodes: arena with classic movement and Warzone with sprint. But that is kind of lame and comes with a myriad of problems in it of itself.
> 2533274814550076;3904:
> > 2533274866906624;3893:
> > > 2533274987750648;3891:
> > > Hey what do you guys believe to be the perfect middle ground between classic and modern halo?
> >
> > I believe it’s not good to compromise. Either has to be all in one way or another. Preferably no sprint.
>
> The best compromise I can think of is separation between gamemodes: arena with classic movement and Warzone with sprint. But that is kind of lame and comes with a myriad of problems in it of itself.
You’re right, namely it divides the community of the game that is played. Reach was a good example of this with MLG, title update, and vanilla Reach community split.
> 2533274814550076;3904:
> > 2533274866906624;3893:
> > > 2533274987750648;3891:
> > > Hey what do you guys believe to be the perfect middle ground between classic and modern halo?
> >
> > I believe it’s not good to compromise. Either has to be all in one way or another. Preferably no sprint.
>
> The best compromise I can think of is separation between gamemodes: arena with classic movement and Warzone with sprint. But that is kind of lame and comes with a myriad of problems in it of itself.
Niaaa… like you said, there’re too many issues this way. And let’s even forget about the obvious problems like weapon balancing, map geometry, two sandboxes and yadda yadda yadda. Let’s say 343i pulled a miracle and made both game types work, okay? Okay! Why are you dividing the mods like this than? Let’s assume a player is not into the competitive scene, but he still hates AMM mechanics with a passion. Well, you just screwed that player over, big times! And the opposite scenario would be true as well.
> 2533274873952586;3897:
> If I see a spartan sprinting in the gameplay reveal, if there is any, I’ll just pass and won’t bother with the game, it will make crystal clear that 343 doesn’t understand a single thing of what makes Halo, Halo.
Yeah sadly, this would be my reaction too. I skipped Halo 5 and regretted buying Halo 4. I’m happy to have the MCC on PC, but if Halo keeps following the CoD/Titanfall trend… it would hurt.
The only compromise I can think of would be to keep thruster but limits. Also, bring back equipment.
> 2533274808548953;3793:
> Just spitballing but here’s an idea to reconcile Sprint in Infinite and it comes from gameplay already implemented in Halo 5.
>
> What if Sprint as a base player ability was removed - this would achieve all of the benefits such as better map scaling already noted previously in this thread - but the default Magnum sidearm provided a movement speed boost exactly the same way the Halo CE Magnum provides in Halo 5.
>
> This changes Sprint to a sandbox mechanic rather than a base mechanic which seems to be the preferred approach. Precedent for this weapon mechanic approach to movement already exists in the game with heavy support guns like detached turrets which reduce speed.
>
> Thoughts?
I like that, you should be faster with pistol-like weapons such as the magnun, plasma pistol etc. kinda how it is in CS.
As long as you can always shoot and are ready with your gun out, not tucked away in some animation, I’m happy.
I’m fine with no sprinting but I really like the thruster dodge thing
> 2585548714655118;3876:
> > 2533274817473171;3875:
> > It all depends on your individual play style and adapting to others.
>
> It can get even weirder.
>
> I prefer / enjoy the way you move and play in Halo 5.
>
> But I think I was better at the classic type of game play.
I would love for there to be no sprinting but thruster dodging because that was super fun
I’d actually come back to Halo if they left the player abilities (and sprint) behind, and strictly innovated with ideas outside of the player (a la equipment, etc.).
Did you notice that in the Halo trilogy there was always a control scheme that gave you easy access to all of your core movement functionalites like jumping and crouching without having to lift your finger from the aim stick?
In Halo 5 on the other hand there are so many features for something so basic like movement and because of that, when choosing a control scheme, you need to give up easy access to some of the core movement functionalities.
For example thrusting in Halo 5 is really deciding on gun fight and long jumps, that’s why I use the Halo 4 scheme.
But by doing so now I am forced to jump with the A button which is really inconvenient.
On Halo 3 on the other hand with Bumper Jumper I could traverse the map without having to lift my right thumb once, and I felt really in control of my spartan.
In conclusion, the Halo trilogy had a limited set of core functionalities (less complexity) that, in conjunction to a good map design, could easily be combined to get new behaviours (more depth), like for example jump + crouch.
After Halo 3 on the other hand “new behaviour = new functionality” which leads to more core functionalities and thus more complexity without necessarily translating in more depth. I think that’s another reason why map design suffered from Halo Reach, because it’s really hard to keep a complex movement system well balanced and fair.
> 2533274873952586;3897:
> If I see a spartan sprinting in the gameplay reveal, if there is any, I’ll just pass and won’t bother with the game, it will make crystal clear that 343 doesn’t understand a single thing of what makes Halo, Halo.
Very powerful language there, and for that im going to have to push back a little bit.
There is alot that makes halo halo. Its sandbox, its characters, its gameplay, its story and lore, its factions, locations . . . etc.
Lets assume you meant the gameplay, and particularly the gameplay mechanics. If 343 removed something like melee, id agree with you. If 343 removed grenades id agree with you. The gameplay mechanics that has been instilled in halo are still there.
Personally im not a big fan of sprint. But Im very sure it can be worked out to work fine.
If sprint didnt lower your weapon would you be ok with it?
If there was no sprint but your base player speed was higher would you be ok with it?
So if I see gameplay where masterchief is running and his gun is still up and shooting, what is there to hate ?
Maybe you are one of the many that are against fast movement (which i actually rarely ever see… but dont worry i personally am a fan of slower paced games)
in that case sprint can be worked out to work only over larger distances so close encounters dont get stupidly fast.
What ever your complaints are about sprint. . . it can be worked out to be present and still be “halo”.
Not a fan of the extra button? make it automatic.
not a fan of the running direction? make it multidirectional.
That being said, there are those who absolutely want sprint in the game, but for the same arguments they make, we can implement a scenario where what they want out of the game is present without a sprint mechanic.
All in all, the main reason for this particular criticism direccted at your specific argument is that you claim if sprint is there, 343 doesnt know anything about halo.
That, even as a hyperbole and exageration, and even giving you an immense amount of charity to what you could have meant is still far from the truth.
On the flip side, there are times where 343 imo has messed up a bit with the direction of halo… enough to cause me dissapointment. But I wouldnt say they dont know what halo is. They know. They experimented. They succeeded with some, and failed in others.
The idea now is for them to learn from their mistakes, take the results and build something new. Something with the good of each, and leaves out the bad of each. And also, of course experimenting even further. Why not, but if they do id like these options they experiment with to be reversible should they flop.
HOW I WOULD MAKE SPRINT WORK WITH CLASSIC HALO
I would nerf jumping while sprinting so that map design is focused on base movement jumps. I would enable hipfire shooting while sprinting so that combat is not disconnected from “moving faster”. Add those to the already in place mechanics, no shield recharge while sprinting and no sprinting while taking damage and i think sprint could work with classic gameplay. i would only make sprint 20% faster than base movement speed.
also thruster would not fit in with classic halo so i would nerf that a lot or get rid of it. if kept in, i would make it physic based so that it cant just instantly change your direction, it should only enhance your current velocity so that it is a lot more predictable as to where a player is going to thrust to. halo 5 thruster is too chaotic.
> 2533274814945686;3913:
> > 2533274873952586;3897:
> > If I see a spartan sprinting in the gameplay reveal, if there is any, I’ll just pass and won’t bother with the game, it will make crystal clear that 343 doesn’t understand a single thing of what makes Halo, Halo.
>
> Very powerful language there, and for that im going to have to push back a little bit.
> There is alot that makes halo halo. Its sandbox, its characters, its gameplay, its story and lore, its factions, locations . . . etc.
>
> Lets assume you meant the gameplay, and particularly the gameplay mechanics. If 343 removed something like melee, id agree with you. If 343 removed grenades id agree with you. The gameplay mechanics that has been instilled in halo are still there.
>
> Personally im not a big fan of sprint. But Im very sure it can be worked out to work fine.
> If sprint didnt lower your weapon would you be ok with it?
> If there was no sprint but your base player speed was higher would you be ok with it?
>
> So if I see gameplay where masterchief is running and his gun is still up and shooting, what is there to hate ?
> Maybe you are one of the many that are against fast movement (which i actually rarely ever see… but dont worry i personally am a fan of slower paced games)
> in that case sprint can be worked out to work only over larger distances so close encounters dont get stupidly fast.
>
> What ever your complaints are about sprint. . . it can be worked out to be present and still be “halo”.
> Not a fan of the extra button? make it automatic.
> not a fan of the running direction? make it multidirectional.
>
> That being said, there are those who absolutely want sprint in the game, but for the same arguments they make, we can implement a scenario where what they want out of the game is present without a sprint mechanic.
>
> All in all, the main reason for this particular criticism direccted at your specific argument is that you claim if sprint is there, 343 doesnt know anything about halo.
> That, even as a hyperbole and exageration, and even giving you an immense amount of charity to what you could have meant is still far from the truth.
> On the flip side, there are times where 343 imo has messed up a bit with the direction of halo… enough to cause me dissapointment. But I wouldnt say they dont know what halo is. They know. They experimented. They succeeded with some, and failed in others.
>
> The idea now is for them to learn from their mistakes, take the results and build something new. Something with the good of each, and leaves out the bad of each. And also, of course experimenting even further. Why not, but if they do id like these options they experiment with to be reversible should they flop.
It’s quite simple, Halo never was about the illusion of movement like Halo 4 and 5 are (sprinting, spartan charge, etc.)
Halo never needed that because it wasn’t that kind of game, its “limited movement” was what made the game simple, fun and easy to design around it. The existence of sprint forces the developers to design the map around that ability, resulting in bigger maps and slower gameplay if you don’t use said ability. Same with ledge grabbing and spartan charge, while they look cool they’re a headache to map designers, having to create levels around those abilities.
For example, in Halo 3 you find a gravity lift, which functions similar to a jetpack, with the difference that you can only place it down and use it in that spot, but what’s that, the equipment is too powerful on one map? well you can just remove that equipment from the map and presto, you don’t have to remake a map because the gravity lift was busted in that map. But we take Halo 5 with those spartan abilities and if one of them breaks a map or gives an unfair advantage, you have to change the map to balance the issue.
The major problem Halo 4 and 5 have it’s because they tried hard to be like CoD in a market saturated by CoD clones, even when they said “oh no we want to make our own thing”, they just ripped off mechanics from CoD and put a Halo coat of paint in it, why would I want to play a Power Ranger/toned down version of CoD if I can just go play CoD instead? People played Halo because it was its own thing, now the previous 343 entries are just another generic enhanced movement fps with a futuristic tone. The vast majority of Halo fans agree that if Halo 6 doesn’t return to its roots, they game will be as forgettable as Halo 4’s multiplayer is.
> 2533274873952586;3915:
> > 2533274814945686;3913:
> > > 2533274873952586;3897:
> > >
>
> It’s quite simple, Halo never was about the illusion of movement like Halo 4 and 5 are (sprinting, spartan charge, etc.)
> Halo never needed that because it wasn’t that kind of game, its “limited movement” was what made the game simple, fun and easy to design around it. The existence of sprint forces the developers to design the map around that ability, resulting in bigger maps and slower gameplay if you don’t use said ability. Same with ledge grabbing and spartan charge, while they look cool they’re a headache to map designers, having to create levels around those abilities.
>
> For example, in Halo 3 you find a gravity lift, which functions similar to a jetpack, with the difference that you can only place it down and use it in that spot, but what’s that, the equipment is too powerful on one map? well you can just remove that equipment from the map and presto, you don’t have to remake a map because the gravity lift was busted in that map. But we take Halo 5 with those spartan abilities and if one of them breaks a map or gives an unfair advantage, you have to change the map to balance the issue.
>
> The major problem Halo 4 and 5 have it’s because they tried hard to be like CoD in a market saturated by CoD clones, even when they said “oh no we want to make our own thing”, they just ripped off mechanics from CoD and put a Halo coat of paint in it, why would I want to play a Power Ranger/toned down version of CoD if I can just go play CoD instead? People played Halo because it was its own thing, now the previous 343 entries are just another generic enhanced movement fps with a futuristic tone. The vast majority of Halo fans agree that if Halo 6 doesn’t return to its roots, they game will be as forgettable as Halo 4’s multiplayer is.
To respond to some of those points:
Yes the sprint ability and how it has been implemented thus far has created issues for map design, bloating the lenghts and sizes of rooms and corridors, and in general made the process of map design a bit more tedius. But it doesnt have to be that way. A mechanic i suggested 4 times now in this thread is that make sprint a progress ability where the longer you run in one direction the closer you get to top speed (meaning the acceleration is not instantaneous) . That way the only case scenario where it would create an issue for map design is if you have a long hallway and there exists a somewhat advantageous point people could utilize through sprinting down that hallway. (But even so thats the whole argument FOR sprint, to be able to traverse large spaces of terrain).
Having this mechanic will allow for sprint not to be an issue for map design. The game is not any more complicated then it used to be with this implementation of sprint. You just have the options to traverse terrain where you would have otherwise wasted time doing nothing just walking.
Grabbing ledge, im more in agreement with you. Im more inclined to say make it not advantageous but rather only cosmetic (so it appears as if you clamber if you made a jump correclty) rather than give you that extra boost you other wise would of not had. Also it should not snap you onto a ledge either, skill jumps were actually a big part of many halo games. that whay there wont be hidden ledges and stuff you can take advantage of like that. (again simplifying map design).
Grav lift: i think we all watched the save youtube vid. It seems you make the exact same points. And I agree largely with whats been said, however, I do think base mechanics have been changed from game to game in some ways and forms. Hijacking and duel weilding was introduced in halo 2 (a feature you couldnt disable iirc) and although you could just not have the duel weidling weapons on maps, thats like half of the sandbox of halo 2. Innovation and innovating base mechanics isnt neccesarily a bad thing. You could end up with relatively good things. The idea behind duel weilding was to build upon and further enhance the intended expereince of the previous game… where you have gun up for the most part. Duel weilding was supposed to be a way where you could fire one weapon while the second weapon was reloading. That is what the gameplay of halo was largely about. Gun up and on the move.
Sprint in halo was supposed to solve the problem of traversing large spaces… but obviously the way it functions could be used in close quarters… making small spaces unusuable , and thus bloating maps. IT doesnt have to be this way.
Innovation is welcome. But if it makes more problems than fixes it, then its not welcome.
As for your last point. Right. Following trends alone will not be good for the frachise in the long run. To remain relevant and popular halo has to set its own unique trends and identity. It has to distinguish itself from competition. Not follow them. However, studying why other frachises are popular can help halo gain popularity by using other methods to inspire the feelings players seek whtn they play those other games. Its not a secret that fast past games are all the craze, and esports is taking off. Free to play games are making the top charts, and without a doubt developers are trying to find how they can draw these audiences to halo.
So what do we do? Make halo battle royale? Make halo like overwatch or pubg or fortnite? No. Halo needs to be its own unique thing, but it cant be what it already was. It has to change and adapt. It has to draw in a new audience. Otherwise halo will die with its old fans. I am an old fan, been playing halo since CE in 2002.
Adding sprint and ordanance was not innovation nor adapting, that was copying.
Adding req packs was not innovation nor adapting, thats copying.
BUT, these things can be changed up and reformatted to further enhance what you might call a “halo experience” rather than drift away from it.
The trick is to stay true to the essence of halo, while refroming its expression to something a wider audience can love for longer and in the present.
If you think this next halo isnt going to innovate I think you will be very dissapointed. But that said, I think 343 has learned their lessons from previous halos, and will try to stay more true to the essence. This is after all their “spiritual reboot”. Wether it has sprint or not, it can still be halo. Just depends on how its implemented if it exists.
And if it doesnt exist… how will they solve the map traversal in halo now? mancannons? vehicles… time will tell.
> 2533274829873463;6:
> > 2535449076192416;1:
> > There is absolutely no way this game won’t have the classic gameplay the oldest of Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
>
> As long as ground pound, spartan charge aren’t there then I don’t mind as much but surely they should increase the movement speed instead of the sprint, not a fan of being slowed down to a half just because someone shot at me.
I’d honestly miss sprint, but I could take or leave that Ground Pound and Spartan Charge. If we truly are going to a bigger world, we’re going to need ways to move around that aren’t a real slog through the mud.
> 2533274821339472;3914:
> HOW I WOULD MAKE SPRINT WORK WITH CLASSIC HALO
>
> I would nerf jumping while sprinting so that map design is focused on base movement jumps. I would enable hipfire shooting while sprinting so that combat is not disconnected from “moving faster”. Add those to the already in place mechanics, no shield recharge while sprinting and no sprinting while taking damage and i think sprint could work with classic gameplay. i would only make sprint 20% faster than base movement speed.
>
> also thruster would not fit in with classic halo so i would nerf that a lot or get rid of it. if kept in, i would make it physic based so that it cant just instantly change your direction, it should only enhance your current velocity so that it is a lot more predictable as to where a player is going to thrust to. halo 5 thruster is too chaotic.
I largely agree with your ideas, but we differ on the thruster: I love being unpredictable and enjoy the challenge of tracking slippery targets.
> 2535417347219052;3917:
> > 2533274829873463;6:
> > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > There is absolutely no way this game won’t have the classic gameplay the oldest of Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> >
> > As long as ground pound, spartan charge aren’t there then I don’t mind as much but surely they should increase the movement speed instead of the sprint, not a fan of being slowed down to a half just because someone shot at me.
>
> I’d honestly miss sprint, but I could take or leave that Ground Pound and Spartan Charge. If we truly are going to a bigger world, we’re going to need ways to move around that aren’t a real slog through the mud.
We do, they’re called vehicles. They weren’t in Halo 5’s Arena.
I’m impartial to whether or not sprint is in the game or not, but I hate the Spartan abilities. No charge, no ground and pound, we don’t even need clamber.
H2A has good pacing and there is not any sprint, the 4v4 map design ensures a fairly steady pace. If we have to keep sprint then fine, but we don’t need armour or spartan abilities it becomes needless clutter.
What makes classic halo so great is the simplistic movement. As others have said Halo does better being its own unique thing not a clone. If we must keep spartan abilities etc. Leave it in the open world PvE type stuff not MM.
> 2533274814945686;3913:
> If sprint didnt lower your weapon would you be ok with it?
> If there was no sprint but your base player speed was higher would you be ok with it?
These are not the right questions because we don’t have a problem with sprint per se, but with the fact that you are forced to put your gun down while moving.
So if you give us classic gameplay where you replace the walking animation with the sprint animation we will all be really really happy, we get classic gameplay, you get your sense of speed/feel like a super soldier feeling (not talking directly to you but in general).
As you can see now sprint is just a cosmetic element and not a gameplay feature.