> 2533274957892502;3856:
> Definitely not a braindead logic. Sprint should 100 per cent stay, this is not 2009.
Are you using the “current year” kind of argument? In the very same year in which four out of the five most popular shooters don’t even have sprint?!
(Fortnite, Overwatch, Valorant, Doom Eternal and CSGO if you’re curious.)
You do understand why that doesn’t work, right? Especially not in 2020.
> 2535470882177553;3861:
> I know it’s super divisive but I’m in favor of thrusters returning. Personally I would like to seem them toned down a bit so that they don’t give quite as much mobility (especially when airborne), but I did like them as a way to enable players to take more risks. I’ve heard it argued that it’s a get out of jail free card for those who make mistakes, but the way I’ve always thought of it is that maybe the only reason they took that risk was because they had thrusters to fall back on.
>
> Honestly though, probably my favorite thing about thrusters is that it helps combat the insane number of grenades thrown in classic Halo. I’ve seen videos where people would throw like 2 inventory’s worth of grenades (because they kept picking them up) until they found their next opportunity to line up a clean shot. I’ve never been in love with the grenade happy meta on classic Halo in that regard, and thrusters give people a viable way to help defend against them. On that note, the grenade proximity indicator should definitely return, more quality of life information for the player is rarely a bad thing imo.
>
> I also don’t really mind the way smart link was implemented. If they keep it the way it is in Halo 5, I wouldn’t really complain. The rest of the spartan abilities should probably be trashed.
I’m with you.
Dodge a grenade. Duck out of a sniper’s sights. Get past the guy with the sword / shottie.
Plus, just in a gun battle, they give you a chance to even the score if you were shot first.
I’m (reluctantly) happy to put sprint and clamber on the negotiating table… but not thrusters.
> 2533274957892502;3849:
> Removing sprint I believe will ruin the competitive scene as this would allow for MNK players on PC to strive
What does one have to do with the other?
Edit: Less then 200 post till we hit 4000 with this thread, I curious if this will happen before we see gameplay…
> 2533274795098161;3862:
> > 2533274957892502;3856:
> > Definitely not a braindead logic. Sprint should 100 per cent stay, this is not 2009.
>
> Are you using the “current year” kind of argument? In the very same year in which four out of the five most popular shooters don’t even have sprint?!
> (Fortnite, Overwatch, Valorant, Doom Eternal and CSGO if you’re curious.)
>
> You do understand why that doesn’t work, right? Especially not in 2020.
Someone else will correct me if I’m wrong, but to the point, Fortnite has sprint, one character in Overwatch does and Counter Strike does with the knife.
> 2533274808548953;3865:
> > 2533274795098161;3862:
> > > 2533274957892502;3856:
> > > Definitely not a braindead logic. Sprint should 100 per cent stay, this is not 2009.
> >
> > Are you using the “current year” kind of argument? In the very same year in which four out of the five most popular shooters don’t even have sprint?!
> > (Fortnite, Overwatch, Valorant, Doom Eternal and CSGO if you’re curious.)
> >
> > You do understand why that doesn’t work, right? Especially not in 2020.
>
> Someone else will correct me if I’m wrong, but to the point, Fortnite has sprint, one character in Overwatch does and Counter Strike does with the knife.
Two different movement speeds don‘t mean it’s sprint and one character in a hero shooter isn‘t really a good counter arguement against sprint as a base mechanic in a arena-style shooter.
it‘s not like people claim HCE-H3 had sprint because crouch is slower or because certain vehicles have a speed boost.
> 2533274801973487;3866:
> > 2533274808548953;3865:
> > > 2533274795098161;3862:
> > > > 2533274957892502;3856:
> > > > Definitely not a braindead logic. Sprint should 100 per cent stay, this is not 2009.
> > >
> > > Are you using the “current year” kind of argument? In the very same year in which four out of the five most popular shooters don’t even have sprint?!
> > > (Fortnite, Overwatch, Valorant, Doom Eternal and CSGO if you’re curious.)
> > >
> > > You do understand why that doesn’t work, right? Especially not in 2020.
> >
> > Someone else will correct me if I’m wrong, but to the point, Fortnite has sprint, one character in Overwatch does and Counter Strike does with the knife.
>
> Two different movement speeds don‘t mean it’s sprint and one character in a hero shooter isn‘t really a good counter arguement against sprint as a base mechanic in a arena-style shooter.
> it‘s not like people claim HCE-H3 had sprint because crouch is slower or because certain vehicles have a speed boost.
I don’t have experience with Fortnite, but looking at some gameplay, it doesn’t seem like you can shoot, zoom, or move sideways while running at maximum speed. It definitely doesn’t look like just “different movement speed”. Is this not true? What if any restrictions does moving at maximum speed in Fortnite have?
> 2533274808548953;3865:
> > 2533274795098161;3862:
> > > 2533274957892502;3856:
> > > Definitely not a braindead logic. Sprint should 100 per cent stay, this is not 2009.
> >
> > Are you using the “current year” kind of argument? In the very same year in which four out of the five most popular shooters don’t even have sprint?!
> > (Fortnite, Overwatch, Valorant, Doom Eternal and CSGO if you’re curious.)
> >
> > You do understand why that doesn’t work, right? Especially not in 2020.
>
> Someone else will correct me if I’m wrong, but to the point, Fortnite has sprint, one character in Overwatch does and Counter Strike does with the knife.
Fortnite is the one game featuring sprint out of the mentioned most popular 5 games.
Overwatch does not feature Sprint as a base player mechanic, it’s one character out of several which have their own other methods of movement.
Counter strike features a few different movement speeds for its different weapons. It’s as much sprint for CS:GO as the sword variants offering a speed boost is sprint in Halo 5.
> 2533274795123910;3868:
> > 2533274808548953;3865:
> > > 2533274795098161;3862:
> > > > 2533274957892502;3856:
> > > > Definitely not a braindead logic. Sprint should 100 per cent stay, this is not 2009.
> > >
> > > Are you using the “current year” kind of argument? In the very same year in which four out of the five most popular shooters don’t even have sprint?!
> > > (Fortnite, Overwatch, Valorant, Doom Eternal and CSGO if you’re curious.)
> > >
> > > You do understand why that doesn’t work, right? Especially not in 2020.
> >
> > Someone else will correct me if I’m wrong, but to the point, Fortnite has sprint, one character in Overwatch does and Counter Strike does with the knife.
>
> Fortnite is the one game featuring sprint out of the mentioned most popular 5 games.
> Overwatch does not feature Sprint as a base player mechanic, it’s one character out of several which have their own other methods of movement.
> Counter strike features a few different movement speeds for its different weapons. It’s as much sprint for CS:GO as the sword variants offering a speed boost is sprint in Halo 5.
True, Fortnite does have it, but Overwatch, Doom, Valorant, CS:GO and more do not have sprint. Halo never needed sprint to begin with and the mechanic has divided the Halo population more than anything else.
> 2585548714655118;3863:
> I’m with you.
>
> Dodge a grenade. Duck out of a sniper’s sights. Get past the guy with the sword / shottie.
>
> Plus, just in a gun battle, they give you a chance to even the score if you were shot first.
>
> I’m (reluctantly) happy to put sprint and clamber on the negotiating table… but not thrusters.
You can accomplish the same thing by simply giving player’s a more snappy, responsive strafe and making shooting more difficult by lower aim assist, decreasing magnetism, and by implementing ‘projectile’ weapons in the vast majority of the sandbox.
You can make a game that allows you to do all of those without needing any extra mobility mechanics.
> 2533274808548953;3865:
> > 2533274795098161;3862:
> > Are you using the “current year” kind of argument? In the very same year in which four out of the five most popular shooters don’t even have sprint?!
> > (Fortnite, Overwatch, Valorant, Doom Eternal and CSGO if you’re curious.)
> >
> > You do understand why that doesn’t work, right? Especially not in 2020.
>
> Someone else will correct me if I’m wrong, but to the point, Fortnite has sprint, one character in Overwatch does and Counter Strike does with the knife.
I said four out five most popular games, FN happens to be the one with sprint! 
Also "sprint" in the gaming landscape has specific implication: you press a button to start a running animation which lowers your weapon and forces your movement and fov in a frontal direction. Different BSM based on the weapon in use is not the same thing. It’s just balancing if something!
But sure, the soldier in Overwatch has sprint as his ability and another one can skate on walls. Two characters out of how many? Thirty? Not really a counter argument in my books! 
I’m all for anything that doesn’t force me to lower my weapon and doesn’t appear to be a gimmick/put in because everyone else is doing it.
I’ve always been a proponent of doing what CS:GO does, base movement on what you are holding, i mean when the energy sword was introduced, they did this already and it help distinguish the sword as a powerful weapon but also as a movement enhancement. Why not make it so if you are holding a rocket and fuel rod cannon, you are hit with a little bit of a movement penalty, or hand off that fuel rod to a fellow teammate and now your movement is back to base and your teammate now has a power weapon to accompany you with to get the flag or destroy the enemy in the base?
Just an example and my 2 cents.
> 2562762645115210;3872:
> I’m all for anything that doesn’t force me to lower my weapon and doesn’t appear to be a gimmick/put in because everyone else is doing it.
>
> I’ve always been a proponent of doing what CS:GO does, base movement on what you are holding, i mean when the energy sword was introduced, they did this already and it help distinguish the sword as a powerful weapon but also as a movement enhancement. Why not make it so if you are holding a rocket and fuel rod cannon, you are hit with a little bit of a movement penalty, or hand off that fuel rod to a fellow teammate and now your movement is back to base and your teammate now has a power weapon to accompany you with to get the flag or destroy the enemy in the base?
>
> Just an example and my 2 cents.
Great way to balance weapons in my opinion.
> 2533274819446242;3870:
> > 2585548714655118;3863:
> > I’m with you.
> >
> > Dodge a grenade. Duck out of a sniper’s sights. Get past the guy with the sword / shottie.
> >
> > Plus, just in a gun battle, they give you a chance to even the score if you were shot first.
> >
> > I’m (reluctantly) happy to put sprint and clamber on the negotiating table… but not thrusters.
>
> You can accomplish the same thing by simply giving player’s a more snappy, responsive strafe and making shooting more difficult by lower aim assist, decreasing magnetism, and by implementing ‘projectile’ weapons in the vast majority of the sandbox.
>
> You can make a game that allows you to do all of those without needing any extra mobility mechanics.
To a certain extent.
To make the strafe fast enough to get out of the way of a grenade / vehicle / shotgun blast… at some stage you start to take away from the feel of toe-to-toe combat.
Personally I would keep the thruster. Make it so that it uses your shield energy to work - so that there is more of a risk/reward to using it (so yes, you get to avoid the rocket coming at you - but you are now weaker for the next part of the combat).
And while we are at it… I would make you turn to face the direction you are thrusting. This would make it less useful in a direct combat situation - you can thrust out of the way but not necessarily keep your eyes on the prize so to speak. But it also gives you a combat option of turning around 180 degrees to face what is coming behind you (albeit at the expense of some shield energy).
“Doomguy is literally always sprinting” I enjoy having Sprint and also playing without it like in Halo Reach. There will always be a multitude of ways of traversing the maps and a multitude of ways to avoid munitions and explosives besides just running away. It all depends on your individual play style and adapting to others.
> 2533274817473171;3875:
> It all depends on your individual play style and adapting to others.
It can get even weirder.
I prefer / enjoy the way you move and play in Halo 5.
But I think I was better at the classic type of game play.
> 2585548714655118;3874:
> To a certain extent.
>
> To make the strafe fast enough to get out of the way of a grenade / vehicle / shotgun blast… at some stage you start to take away from the feel of toe-to-toe combat.
What on Earth is “at some stage you start to take away from the feel of toe-to-toe combat” even supposed to mean? Imagine trying to say this with regards to something like Quake, it would be ridiculous and we don’t even need to get that high a speed to achieve our goals. Especially when we can also simply make the act of shooting more difficult.
Putting that aside, you don’t necessarily deserve to always be able to dodge said grenade/vehicle/shotgun/etc. Often times the player has simply made a tactical error and deserves to be punished for it. The reward for thruster is disproportionate to the actual risk involved in the maneuver and easy escapes are always going to be a problem with both sprint and thrust no matter what awkward limits you put on its use.
> Personally I would keep the thruster. Make it so that it uses your shield energy to work - so that there is more of a risk/reward to using it (so yes, you get to avoid the rocket coming at you - but you are now weaker for the next part of the combat).
Speaking of awkward limits that don’t actually fix anything. The fact you can dodge a rocket or any other significant threat with ease is already a reward that dwarfs any possible risk you could associate it. You are always going to “press x not to die” even if it only delays your death by a small amount of time because any amount of time spent wasting the enemies time and ammo is time well spent.
> And while we are at it… I would make you turn to face the direction you are thrusting. This would make it less useful in a direct combat situation - you can thrust out of the way but not necessarily keep your eyes on the prize so to speak. But it also gives you a combat option of turning around 180 degrees to face what is coming behind you (albeit at the expense of some shield energy).
If you are that worried about your rear, you should probably just play on higher sensitivity or simply not let players get the drop on you in the first place. None of the things you are attributing to thrust are actually exclusive to the thrust mechanic.
> 2585548714655118;3863:
> Plus, just in a gun battle, they give you a chance to even the score if you were shot first.
> 2585548714655118;3874:
> Personally I would keep the thruster. Make it so that it uses your shield energy to work - so that there is more of a risk/reward to using it (so yes, you get to avoid the rocket coming at you - but you are now weaker for the next part of the combat).
How exactly does these two work together?
And why is it again that the “risk/reward” thing is yet again crammed in like it’s a good thing to hurt a player to use a basic mechanic they’re provided?
> 2585548714655118;3874:
> > 2533274819446242;3870:
> > > 2585548714655118;3863:
> > >
>
> To a certain extent.
>
> To make the strafe fast enough to get out of the way of a grenade / vehicle / shotgun blast… at some stage you start to take away from the feel of toe-to-toe combat.
>
> Personally I would keep the thruster. Make it so that it uses your shield energy to work - so that there is more of a risk/reward to using it (so yes, you get to avoid the rocket coming at you - but you are now weaker for the next part of the combat).
>
> And while we are at it… I would make you turn to face the direction you are thrusting. This would make it less useful in a direct combat situation - you can thrust out of the way but not necessarily keep your eyes on the prize so to speak. But it also gives you a combat option of turning around 180 degrees to face what is coming behind you (albeit at the expense of some shield energy).
Nah if thruster comes back it just needs to be straightforward, if you add tonnes of intricate properties it becomes less intuitive. The beauty of halo is how intuitive and readable the game is. The big change for thruster is you need to remain in first person perspective at all times. I would rather a multi-use evade style pick up and keep quick toe-to-toe movement, more projectiles and more responsive slight movements like quick crouch animations or little things that help contort the body (say more unique model poses mid animation between jumps / crouches to make the hitbox more mobile). Regardless thruster should be basic and not janky.
> 2585548714655118;3874:
> > 2533274819446242;3870:
> > > 2585548714655118;3863:
> > > I’m with you.
> > >
> > > Dodge a grenade. Duck out of a sniper’s sights. Get past the guy with the sword / shottie.
> > >
> > > Plus, just in a gun battle, they give you a chance to even the score if you were shot first.
> > >
> > > I’m (reluctantly) happy to put sprint and clamber on the negotiating table… but not thrusters.
> >
> > You can accomplish the same thing by simply giving player’s a more snappy, responsive strafe and making shooting more difficult by lower aim assist, decreasing magnetism, and by implementing ‘projectile’ weapons in the vast majority of the sandbox.
> >
> > You can make a game that allows you to do all of those without needing any extra mobility mechanics.
>
> To a certain extent.
>
> To make the strafe fast enough to get out of the way of a grenade / vehicle / shotgun blast… at some stage you start to take away from the feel of toe-to-toe combat.
>
> Personally I would keep the thruster. Make it so that it uses your shield energy to work - so that there is more of a risk/reward to using it (so yes, you get to avoid the rocket coming at you - but you are now weaker for the next part of the combat).
>
> And while we are at it… I would make you turn to face the direction you are thrusting. This would make it less useful in a direct combat situation - you can thrust out of the way but not necessarily keep your eyes on the prize so to speak. But it also gives you a combat option of turning around 180 degrees to face what is coming behind you (albeit at the expense of some shield energy).
Honestly, I think thrust is a bigger problem than any other ability. It has made driving vehicles in halo 5 much less fun. I feel like that kind of thing should be some kind of equipment that you have to pick up on the map.
I do actually like your idea of using shields. If it is attached to everyone, I would actually be more ok with it. I still don’t like thrusting at all but I like that idea.
> 2533274808548953;3865:
> > 2533274795098161;3862:
> > > 2533274957892502;3856:
> > > Definitely not a braindead logic. Sprint should 100 per cent stay, this is not 2009.
> >
> > Are you using the “current year” kind of argument? In the very same year in which four out of the five most popular shooters don’t even have sprint?!
> > (Fortnite, Overwatch, Valorant, Doom Eternal and CSGO if you’re curious.)
> >
> > You do understand why that doesn’t work, right? Especially not in 2020.
>
> Someone else will correct me if I’m wrong, but to the point, Fortnite has sprint, one character in Overwatch does and Counter Strike does with the knife.
The point for Overwatch and CS:GO is that it isn’t a universal mechanic. I also wouldn’t necessarily call the Knife sprinting, seeing as it’s only a little faster than Pistol speed (generally). On top of that, the maps in CS:GO appear to be designed around the speed without the Knife than it is with the Knife.