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> > 2535463166788835;3813:
> > > 2533274929857034;3812:
> > > So I found that a lot of the movement systems in Halo 5 were over the top and unnecessary, but what’s the argument against sprint?
> >
> > The most simplified explanation is changes to map design and size, the inability to move and shoot at the same time, unnecessesary control complexity, removal of depth regarding the sandbox, and following trends. Following trends isn’t really a valid argument, but 343 has stated that they wanted to satisfy player expectation for non-Halo fans in the following GDC video. Designing Spartan Abilities for Halo 5: Guardians - YouTube
> >
> > As for map design and size, we saw an increase in walls and lanes around the map, making players follow set paths instead of exploring and exploiting the map to get to advantageous places or to cross between different sections of the map in a non-linear way. Cross-map visibility suffered as a result as well, since a majority of Arena maps do not allow you to see the opposite side of the map, whereas in old games you were allowed to see the opposite side of the map most times. Compare Midship’s Halo 2 and Halo 5 iterations, and there is a significant size difference between the two. With Halo 5, the increased size saw an increase in time between firefights. Although combat pace feels faster due to higher APM (Actions per Minute), there is much more downtime because of the increased size and change in design.
> >
> > Unnecessary control complexity and removal of sandbox depth is more in regards to Spartan Abilities, so I’ll just leave it at that. Not a bad idea to combine different buttons for different effects, but making Abilities non-modular and the removal of Loadout options hurts Custom Games, Firefight, and Forge a whole lot more than other game modes.
>
> That’s understandable, and definitely a solid case against sprint. I understand how that would prevent people from wanting sprint to return, and it is nice to see the argument fleshed out, rather than just the “old school Halo movement was better, so no sprint” argument that I’ve seen. Thanks for explaining!
BlueBandit Ds post was well done, but a large chunk of anti-sprint posts are fleshed out and descriptive. 1-sentence reductive arguments aren’t common as anti-sprinters have to provide a case why it needs to be removed. It’s not that we want an H3 clone, it’s that if we are to improve movement in the game that we can move and shoot, and that it works well with the established map layout and general damage and kill times of the weapon sandbox.
Less power off spawn and more on map is a big push, another is for weapons to have more depth and functionality (the entire promethean weapon set is lackluster). Sprint introduces many small issues which alters gameplay a lot, yet does little to improve the game, its inclusion feels forced not a natural development of the gameplay.
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> > > >
> >
> > He said that halo fans will ‘most likely’ get it anyway, not that they will definitely get it.
>
> Yes, but based on what information? Halo’s player base has been dropping off a cliff ever since enhanced mobility became a staple (Reach doesn’t count because it piggybacked off the success of the trilogy). H5 sales were the first in the series to not be made public and I think we all know why. There’s absolutely no reason to believe that trend won’t continue if they add enhanced mobility into the game.
>
> Like many others on this thread, If H:I has enhanced mobility it will be the first Halo I don’t buy, and I have several friends who fit in this category. I and others have been extremely patient with Halo. We have played through and endured 3 abominations. But, if this game is just like the rest, then I can say, with confidence, that this will be the final nail in the coffin, and I will happily be a part of the hammer which strikes it down.
I’m not agreeing with the statement. All I was saying is that ADE MacBamboo01 misinterpreted what Karim said.
I don’t think movement is what ultimately led to the downfall of halo there where so many other things in halo five that led to its downfall
1.the game wasn’t even finished at launch all the features people where used to half of that -Yoink- wasn’t there Big team battle infection forge I love halo and and I understand it has mistakes but I even I was like yo where tf is forge I wanna play some duck hunt some temple run. ( some of my favorite custom games from halo 4) so that turned a lot of people off from the game the game at launch was double a not triple
2 REQQQQQQQsssssss personally I despise req packs and having rng determine what armor peice I got that -Yoink- INFURIATED me I enjoyed halo 4 a lot personally and one of the best experiences for me was earning the full venator armour set and it felt soooo good to earn something I put so much time and so many assassinations into but the fact that I had to spin the -Yoinking!- slot machine to get the venator set again turned me off a lot from multiplayer (not that I didn’t enjoy multiplayer because I personally love my boost dodge and sprint) but not being able to EARN what I wanted turned me off thats why I play so much custom games now
The campaign was definitely trash it sure was there’s no disputing that the cutscenes looked beautiful tho not gonna lie and I personally love the spartan 4 design I think chief and spartan lock look -Yoinking!- epic (infinite Chief looks -Yoink!- too not gonna lie man looks -Yoinking!- amazing) but the campay was short and -Yoink- and ya don’t want that
4 warzone was a hot mess on release and there wasn’t -Yoink- for it
all in all don’t just blame the way the game plays as it’s down fall halo 5 in some people’s eyes is amazing fun and fast paced. With halo infinite everyone isn’t gonna get what they want and I understand that because it’s not a game specifically for me it’s not going to be halo 123 reach and cue it’s not gonna be halo 4 and 5 it’s going to be halo infinite and that’s the big picture
I really do hope infinite goes with old style gameplay as its just frustrating to have to put my gun down to go at maximum movement and slow all the way down to shoot and recharge my shields.
> 2533274987750648;3825:
> I really do hope infinite goes with old style gameplay as its just frustrating to have to put my gun down to go at maximum movement and slow all the way down to shoot and recharge my shields.
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> > 2533274987750648;3825:
> > I really do hope infinite goes with old style gameplay as its just frustrating to have to put my gun down to go at maximum movement and slow all the way down to shoot and recharge my shields.
>
> True, it is jarring and hurts the experience.
As someone who doesn’t like sprint, there is no way they are getting rid of it. They should make the maps small and let us point our guns while we run.
I’ve watched a fair few anti-sprint videos (mostly via this thread)… to try and understand the arguments better… but a lot of them are somewhat hard to watch.
This guy seems to summarise most of the key points that peeps have discussed here… but with good examples… and a nice balance that might appeal to those sitting on the fence.
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> > 2533274866906624;3826:
> > > 2533274987750648;3825:
> > > I really do hope infinite goes with old style gameplay as its just frustrating to have to put my gun down to go at maximum movement and slow all the way down to shoot and recharge my shields.
> >
> > True, it is jarring and hurts the experience.
>
> As someone who doesn’t like sprint, there is no way they are getting rid of it. They should make the maps small and let us point our guns while we run.
If 343 keeps sprint, it shows they are out of touch, since each Halo since H3 has gotten progressively worse in popularity and sales.
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> > > > 2533274795098161;3808:
> > > > > 2535469462089417;3802:
> > > > >
> > >
> > > He said that halo fans will ‘most likely’ get it anyway, not that they will definitely get it.
> >
> > Yes, but based on what information? Halo’s player base has been dropping off a cliff ever since enhanced mobility became a staple (Reach doesn’t count because it piggybacked off the success of the trilogy). H5 sales were the first in the series to not be made public and I think we all know why. There’s absolutely no reason to believe that trend won’t continue if they add enhanced mobility into the game.
> >
> > Like many others on this thread, If H:I has enhanced mobility it will be the first Halo I don’t buy, and I have several friends who fit in this category. I and others have been extremely patient with Halo. We have played through and endured 3 abominations. But, if this game is just like the rest, then I can say, with confidence, that this will be the final nail in the coffin, and I will happily be a part of the hammer which strikes it down.
>
> I’m not agreeing with the statement. All I was saying is that ADE MacBamboo01 misinterpreted what Karim said.
I didn’t though. The fact that he said “most likely” doesn’t change my counter point in the slightest, because I doubt it’s likely at all mate. Especially because it’s a launch game! That’s the point! If the no-sprint crowed doesn’t like what they see in July, most of us won’t buy Hi period. Brand loyalty only goes so far! We are only a fairly small group in the gaming landscape though, I’ve got to admit that too.
I feel like it would be harder for new players to get used to a game with “slow” movement, coming from other shooters like fortnite and starwars battlefront.
> 2535453977610996;3832:
> I feel like it would be harder for new players to get used to a game with “slow” movement, coming from other shooters like fortnite and starwars battlefront.
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> > 2535453977610996;3832:
> > I feel like it would be harder for new players to get used to a game with “slow” movement, coming from other shooters like fortnite and starwars battlefront.
>
> How would it be harder? Just curious.
Well just playing with a guy who never really played halo until 5 - everything is too slow, he feels helpless. Meanwhile I feel 5 is too fast and I feel helpless as 4 people sprint double beat down me.
> 2535453977610996;3832:
> I feel like it would be harder for new players to get used to a game with “slow” movement, coming from other shooters like fortnite and starwars battlefront.
To be honest, if they’re playing Fortnite, they’re probably not going to hop onto Halo. Battlefront is also a fundamentally different game from Halo in terms of gameplay. I think Halo should be looking to capture the fans created by DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal that don’t have a good multiplayer mode to play. On top of that, Halo also needs to diversify itself from the pack. The biggest complaint I had for Halo 5, was how similar it felt to games around it. If the new game is pretty much the same as the thing I already have but has the name of the thing I like, I’m just gonna save my money and keep what I have.
The biggest problem I think a lot of people have these days is wanting the homogenization of games of a particular genre to be like everything around them.
> 2533274794139417;8:
> I’ve been playing halo since the OG xbox but if sprint gone so am I. I can’t go back to the slow movement of halo 3. If that’s the case good bye halo I loved u so much
Does sprint matter that much too you? So basically if 343 combine their style with bungies style, create the perfect game, but remove sprint due to OG fans not liking it you will quit?
> 2535453977610996;3832:
> I feel like it would be harder for new players to get used to a game with “slow” movement, coming from other shooters like fortnite and starwars battlefront.
Who says that classic movement has to be slow? This is one of those things that fans of Spartan Abilities, and of Sprint in particular, make up because they don’t understand what classic fans really want.
There are two main things that are fundamental to classic gameplay:
Control and interplay of movement and combat; no movement animations that prevent the player from performing combat actions. The player should not need to sacrifice movement speed to fight, or need to stop fighting and turn around to get up a ledge. - Simplicity; no redundant or extraneous single-purpose mechanics. Any individual mechanic should by itself be versatile and interesting when combined with the two basic mechanics (running and jumping), and should be maximally used in level design.That much most classic fans could agree on. Beyond that you do find purists who want no new movement mechanics at all outside of those in the original trilogy (but still, not slow movement). I can’t say there aren’t people who specifically want movement to feel slow, because I know there are, but I will quite confidently say that those are a small minority.
> 2535453977610996;3832:
> I feel like it would be harder for new players to get used to a game with “slow” movement, coming from other shooters like fortnite and starwars battlefront.
Have you seen any of the videos on the recent PC flights for Halo 3 in the MCC ? It’s actually very fast without sprint, and believe me when I say I’m not a fan of Halo 3’s feel. If 343i did something like increase the BSM and give us a FoV slider in Halo Infinite I would be very happy with that. I’m not against or pro sprint either, but games can be fast without it.
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> > 2535453977610996;3832:
> > I feel like it would be harder for new players to get used to a game with “slow” movement, coming from other shooters like fortnite and starwars battlefront.
>
> How would it be harder? Just curious.
Why has infinite to be, quote on quote, slow without sprint is the better question imho!
> 2535453977610996;3832:
> I feel like it would be harder for new players to get used to a game with “slow” movement, coming from other shooters like fortnite and starwars battlefront.
> 2533274833311664;3834:
> > 2783251376877086;3833:
> > > 2535453977610996;3832:
> > > I feel like it would be harder for new players to get used to a game with “slow” movement, coming from other shooters like fortnite and starwars battlefront.
> >
> > How would it be harder? Just curious.
>
> Well just playing with a guy who never really played halo until 5 - everything is too slow, he feels helpless. Meanwhile I feel 5 is too fast and I feel helpless as 4 people sprint double beat down me.
If you havent, I do reccomend giving halo 3 a try or most mcc games. There are things that halos 1 to even 4 have that make me like them better than 5, but the issue with sprint is maps. The maps in halo 3 were so memorable. Without sprint, they often have more interesting ways to get around that I miss a lot in 5. I would rather have no sprint and have more vehicles, man cannons, teleported, secret tunnels, windmills, equipment grav lifts and other elements from super mario 64. Not to mention the maps are just smaller in general, but it may just not be your cup of tea.
I do feel like there is a way to incorporate both enhanced mobility and interesting maps, but that would require the maps to be outrageously huge.
