The return of classic movement mechanics?

> 2533274808548953;3693:
> > 2533274836395701;3691:
> > CSGO is the most popular shooter right now and doesn’t have sprint
>
> Minor nitpick but can you source that? Everything I’ve seen has Fortnite as far more popular:
> • Fortnite player count 2020 | Statista
> • CS:GO peak players on Steam 2021 | Statista

I’m going to be honest i forgot about Fortnite numbers, https://steamcharts.com/ shows active CSGO population. The links you provided show registered users in Fortnite vs active playerbase in CSGO, that isn’t a 1:1 comparison. Fortnite will have much more though, especially due to popularity on many different platforms. Overwatch don’t publish numbers but i guarantee it’s less, Apex would of had more during its peak though that has dipped in popularity, Valorant will have more than CSGO, though that won’t last long. Beyond searching for online counters i don’t have more evidence than online viewership and in-game pop counters. Beyond the phenomenon of Fortnite i would hazard a guess that Valorant and CSGO are the next most popular.

> I’m sorry to jump in here, but I think Halo 5 did exactly that. For instance ShyWay is still discovering and posting new jumps in Halo 5 as of 2 weeks ago: Eden NEW META Jumps and Movement - YouTube
> I think a good chunk of Halo fans aren’t aware of map design and the advanced movement possibilities in Halo 5 because they turned away from it early.

Possibly, personally i turned away and many of the people i played with who came back for 5 because of the movement combos. While new tricks are found much of the tech was already found and utilised by early 2016. I think advanced movement can be realised, i think it was realised better in advanced CoD and Titanfall however. The long kill times and tight spaces of Halo are antithetical to mechanics that let you chain movement. Sprint and clamber work much better in CoD as the tradeoff is that you use it inappropriately you die. Plaza is a map i feel that really shows off H5’s advanced movement mechanics, it also highlights the issues they pose when used effectively.

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> > > 2533274795123910;3697:
> > > > 2533274838868893;3696:
> > > > I’m sure there is a way to make maps for advanced movement more interesting, we just haven’t really found a good base for one yet.
>
> I’m sorry to jump in here, but I think Halo 5 did exactly that. For instance ShyWay is still discovering and posting new jumps in Halo 5 as of 2 weeks ago: Eden NEW META Jumps and Movement - YouTube
>
> I think a good chunk of Halo fans aren’t aware of map design and the advanced movement possibilities in Halo 5 because they turned away from it early.

The video seems pretty interesting and I’ll give it a watch, but it still doesn’t matter anymore. I mean if it takes unintentional glitches to make the movement fun and interesting then you have a problem. If these mechanics were known while H5 was still active it could have changed a lot of things. The reality however is that if you require the community to find a dope glitch then they just might find it too late. Cool stuff for speed runners though.

> 2533274808548953;3693:
> > 2533274836395701;3691:
> > CSGO is the most popular shooter right now and doesn’t have sprint
>
> Minor nitpick but can you source that? Everything I’ve seen has Fortnite as far more popular:
> • Fortnite player count 2020 | Statista
> • CS:GO peak players on Steam 2021 | Statista

Your Fortnite numbers there are total number of registered accounts, whereas your CS:GO numbers are concurrent players. If you want to show that Fortnite is more popular right now, you need to find its present concurrent player count.

> 2533274838868893;3703:
> > 2533274808548953;3700:
> > > 2533274838868893;3698:
> > > > 2533274795123910;3697:
> > > > > 2533274838868893;3696:
> > > > > I’m sure there is a way to make maps for advanced movement more interesting, we just haven’t really found a good base for one yet.
> >
> > I’m sorry to jump in here, but I think Halo 5 did exactly that. For instance ShyWay is still discovering and posting new jumps in Halo 5 as of 2 weeks ago: Eden NEW META Jumps and Movement - YouTube
> >
> > I think a good chunk of Halo fans aren’t aware of map design and the advanced movement possibilities in Halo 5 because they turned away from it early.
>
> The video seems pretty interesting and I’ll give it a watch, but it still doesn’t matter anymore. I mean if it takes unintentional glitches to make the movement fun and interesting then you have a problem. If these mechanics were known while H5 was still active it could have changed a lot of things. The reality however is that if you require the community to find a dope glitch then they just might find it too late. Cool stuff for speed runners though.

The video says new tech, however a lot of the things in the video such as ramp slides, drop slides, spring jumps, modified super jump etc have all been known for some time, the video seems to moreso argue that they are under-utilised, but seems to pass it off as new tech, maybe some new nerd spots, but definitely not groundbreaking new. Slide boosts into clamber is a big part of H5 and has been since day 1, however nerdier spots wouldn’t get used often as some require the player to be exposed.

> 2533274825830455;3704:
> > 2533274808548953;3693:
> > > 2533274836395701;3691:
> > > CSGO is the most popular shooter right now and doesn’t have sprint
> >
> > Minor nitpick but can you source that? Everything I’ve seen has Fortnite as far more popular:
> > • Fortnite player count 2020 | Statista
> > • CS:GO peak players on Steam 2021 | Statista
>
> Your Fortnite numbers there are total number of registered accounts, whereas your CS:GO numbers are concurrent players. If you want to show that Fortnite is more popular right now, you need to find its present concurrent player count.

I’m aware it’s not an apples to apples comparison, and I don’t mean to be misleading. Unfortunately population numbers are somewhat guarded and I was merely providing what I had found.

my prefered movement mechanics:

  • no sprint, ground pound, clamber and spartan charge
  • wall kicking can be used as an object bound doublejump ( see locke trailer)
  • mythic arena thrusters
  • slightly faster bms + a higer top speed that needs a few seconds to set in ( for big map traversal)
  • stabilizers can stay, but they should slow down horizontal momentum too ( so jump lenghts stay more intact)
  • slide can stay ( activated by crouch+ thrust)

> 2533274945422049;3707:
> my prefered movement mechanics:
> - no sprint, ground pound, clamber and spartan charge
> - wall kicking can be used as an object bound doublejump ( see locke trailer)
> - mythic arena thrusters
> - slightly faster bms + a higer top speed that needs a few seconds to set in ( for big map traversal)
> - stabilizers can stay, but they should slow down horizontal momentum too ( so jump lenghts stay more intact)
> - slide can stay ( activated by crouch+ thrust)

I’d be willing to try something along these lines. Although, unlike you, I’m quite into momentum conservation. I’d actually just merge Slide and Thruster Pack so that sliding is the default action when the player has their feet planted on the ground. Both actions would conserve momentum if the player jumps right after. If I had Stabilizer, I’d have it with momentum conservation that then falls of with some sort of air resistance, but if jumps were too long I’d rather not have it at all.

I think the stabilize spartan ability could stay, as it was fun and practical. Not sprint though. That mechanic has hurt Halo’s gameplay since Halo: Reach.

> 2533274825830455;3690:
> > 2533274822068856;3687:
> > I feel we’re finally holding a conversation now. In your idea for a revised Clamber, you say “Every ledge would simply have a virtual box surrounding it that lifts the player above the ledge if they land anywhere inside the box.”. I assume you mean the player would have to input a button press to activate this mechanic, yes? Because forcing the player to do so every single time they’re in that virtual box, would take away from their ability to control the character.
>
> Whatever works best. I think there are situations where the player wouldn’t want to climb up the ledge, so it might be that the player would need to hold the jump button to climb.
>
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> > 2533274822068856;3687:
> > Disabling the ability to throw Grenades for a split second would likely have to happen.
>
> Would it? The worst thing that could happen it would make the transition animation look a bit janky. Mechanically, there is no reason why transporting the player over a ledge would have to interfere with anything but their movement.
>
>
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> > 2533274822068856;3687:
> > But what could the possible downsides to this mechanic be? More verticality in map design? Is that necessarily a bad thing on its own?
>
> As I already noted, fans of Clamber might not like the fact that after you have already done a double jumo, you can’t climb up the ledge if you’re still short of completing the jump. Combining it with any variation of Clamber would give players even more jump distance.
>
> The obvious donwsides aare the same as Clamber: more distance to jumps and shorter jumps becoming easier. The problem isn’t the absolute jump distance per se, but its size relative to the player movement speed. Gaps that can’t be jumped require certain amount of space, which puts limits on design of small maps. For example, the design of Coliseum is mostly determined by how large the central gap needs to so that players can’t easily jump from base to base. if you gave players more jump distance without giving them more speed, you’d have to elongate the map and make transit times longer. The alternative is that you don’t care and just allow players to go anywhere, which can make for very chaotic map flow.

Well, as far as animations go, I don’t think a game of Halo’s caliber would be able to get away with a janky animation at this point. And 343 probably doesn’t need more of the sort of criticism it would inevitably attract. People will be angry about the game no matter what, so they don’t need to be given a janky animation that someone can complain about even if they don’t play the game. There’s no need to feed the trolls more that they can feed themselves. Not being able to toss a grenade while pulling yourself up with one hand for half a second, isn’t the worst compromise. It would probably go unnoticed by most the vast majority of the time. My bigger concern is that the established architecture styles may have to be altered. We all know how changing the art design can lead to its own issues, but that’s for another thread.

I think the issue with elongating parts of maps only for Double Jumps, is more doable overall, especially if movement speed is slightly increased. For the sake of all readers, I should put emphasis on the fact that my vision of a Double Jump in Halo would not be a second standard Jump you can make mid-air. It would be a small boost-jump that you can make mid-air, that would at most be the equivalent to half the height of a standard Jump. This is firstly to help keep map design from getting too outlandish for a Halo setting. Secondly, it helps the player get a feel for how heavy the Spartans are. I know, I know, not being able to Double Jump would instill a greater sense of weight, but I don’t think Halo should go full Halo 2/3 for movement. I appreciate new ideas and want to give them a chance if they show potential. This is all hypothetical, anyway. 343 will do what they will do, we all need to remember that.

I totally agree that map flow is important on a fundamental level, which is how I know that, at the very least, Clamber should not stay the same as it is in halo 5. Some people people may not like to hear it, but a certain level of predictability is needed to help with the methodical gameplay that Halo is known for. This isn’t to say there shouldn’t be multiple paths from point A to point B, but reasonably limiting decisions leads to the ability to predict where an enemy could be coming from. It also hastens decision making when it comes to choosing a path, due to the reduced number of pathways you can take to your target destination. Some may call it heresy, but Halo is, in some ways, like Chess. It needs to be carefully balanced. But unlike Chess, there are more dimensions and variables in a video game. Because of this, there is potential for expansion that won’t disrupt the core values of Halo’s gameplay. Off the top of my head, and in no particular order of importance, I believe those values are (but but are not limited to): maintaining momentum in and out of combat, equal starts in multiplayer, and having an atmosphere that isn’t too chaotic, so the player can feel a sense of control over the situation. This last one also has an element of predictability, because you can feel in control when you have a good idea of what will happen. After all, you’re a nearly unstoppable super soldier in the games. In other words: pacing, fairness, mood, and predictability.

I can be included as a half-fan of Clamber, and I think fans would be able to appreciate the change to a Double Jump after playing it. I like the idea and feel of Clamber, but at the same time, I dislike how it effects pacing within active combat. I think that even within Halo 5, it gave the player too much vertical travel distance on top of a standard Jump, which made it too forgiving and shoehorned it into an ability that clearly outclassed an existing mechanic: Crouch Jumping. Don’t get me wrong, Crouch Jumping still had its place in Halo 5, but Clamber gives you a huge height advantage that also forces a slowdown animation that can interfere with the pacing of the gunplay. Another issue that clashes with Halo’s gameplay, is that you have to be facing the ledge you want to Clamber, which means you have to stop shooting anyone that isn’t in front of you, just to prepare yourself to start the animation. When used in combat, it’s a risk vs reward system, but it’s also one that isn’t very fun for the person doing it, because it limits your vertical movement options in combat when you’re near a ledge that can only be Clambered onto. Because of this, I’m now more on board with the Double Jump idea, than a reworked clamber. Some other people have thought about this before, I just had pay closer attention to it, and think about it.

> 2535433195140379;3688:
> To be honnest I dont think I will play Halo Infinite Multiplayer that much if we can’t run (which has become a key element of gameplay in EVERY FPS type game since Half Life 2, Crysis 2, etc)
>
> The only things I didn’t like in Halo 5 were its campaign intro cinematic (spartans snowboarding on Elites’ bodies through Wraith being torn appart everywhere -that was “too much” ) , its linearity, audio mixing (unhearable voices) and the resurrection system.
> I had absolutly nothing to say about gameplay (including running, edge grab, thrusting) which I found simply perfect on a gameplay point of view and I dont want to go back in Turok’s era regarding gameplay)

Preach, brother! I feel exactly the same way.

> 2533274822068856;3710:
> Well, as far as animations go, I don’t think a game of Halo’s caliber would be able to get away with a janky animation at this point. And 343 probably doesn’t need more of the sort of criticism it would inevitably attract. People will be angry about the game no matter what, so they don’t need to be given a janky animation that someone can complain about even if they don’t play the game. There’s no need to feed the trolls more that they can feed themselves. Not being able to toss a grenade while pulling yourself up with one hand for half a second, isn’t the worst compromise. It would probably go unnoticed by most the vast majority of the time.

I think you’re overestimating either the jankiness of the resulting animation, or people’s attention to detail. You can find lots of janky animations in modern games, because often responsiveness is more important than finishing an animation. A pretty basic example in Halo is the weapon switch animation, which you can spam endlessly and the game just jumps straight to the next animation even if the previous hasn’t finished. Have you ever heard anyone complain about that? Meeting the player’s expectations is a priority. if a slightly weird looking transition leads to a quick response, the player probably won’t care or even notice. Especially when we’re talking about these split-second animations, the slightly odd looking part goes by fast enough for anyone to even register it.

> 2533274825830455;3712:
> > 2533274822068856;3710:
> > Well, as far as animations go, I don’t think a game of Halo’s caliber would be able to get away with a janky animation at this point. And 343 probably doesn’t need more of the sort of criticism it would inevitably attract. People will be angry about the game no matter what, so they don’t need to be given a janky animation that someone can complain about even if they don’t play the game. There’s no need to feed the trolls more that they can feed themselves. Not being able to toss a grenade while pulling yourself up with one hand for half a second, isn’t the worst compromise. It would probably go unnoticed by most the vast majority of the time.
>
> I think you’re overestimating either the jankiness of the resulting animation, or people’s attention to detail. You can find lots of janky animations in modern games, because often responsiveness is more important than finishing an animation. A pretty basic example in Halo is the weapon switch animation, which you can spam endlessly and the game just jumps straight to the next animation even if the previous hasn’t finished. Have you ever heard anyone complain about that? Meeting the player’s expectations is a priority. if a slightly weird looking transition leads to a quick response, the player probably won’t care or even notice. Especially when we’re talking about these split-second animations, the slightly odd looking part goes by fast enough for anyone to even register it.

I’m more looking out for overblown criticism aimed at 343 at this point in the discussion. But maybe that doesn’t matter so much at this point. They have been a pinata for 8 years now, maybe they can take more flak over a strange animation.

Just checking in to this forum every now and then, I’m still heavily in favour of building off foundational gameplay, so this feels like an actual upgraded sequel to a Halo game.

I’m taking a new angle for my posts, as I won’t keep repeating how objectively sprint takes FAR more away from Halo’s ecosystem than it adds etc… But like it or not, I don’t see how anyone can deny that the 343 games currently have felt like games belonging to a different IP. Even they likely appreciate this fact hence the bold spiritual reboot they keep mentioning (it likely doesn’t just apply to story, but time will tell).

I don’t want a carbon copy of h3, truth is I don’t wholly know what I want… Truth be told I’m not that creative or entitled lol. I know what I don’t want, and that’s another game that lacks what makes Halo unique and special, esp in an age of ‘low hanging fruit’ in gaming.

So having a halo game that’s basically a graphically superior H3 at 120fps etc… Is not desirable or what’s being asked for. We just want a TRUE Halo sequel. To potentially be surprised and excited to see unexpected additions BUT within the framework of what makes Halo… Halo.

Oh and for those saying ‘it’s 2020, he’s a super soldier etc…’ this very LITERAL approach to a medium that allows such creativity is how we end up with games that all feel the same. Eg. Metal Gear Solid vs Splinter Cell, in both games ur playing covert agents at the top of their fields. Sam Fisher can jump, the legendary soldier Solid Snake can not jump (unless contextually) during gameplay.

Both make ‘sense’ in their gaming context and provide rewarding and vastly different gameplay experiences, Splinter Cell funnily enough lost its way when it deviated from its roots and I think Splinter Cell Blacklist was a solid attempt to return to previous glory…

Halo retaining sprint, to many may make it ‘feel modern’ but that didn’t save H5 (and as proven it can feel ‘modern’ without sprint, I hope Infinite is the Halo sequel (not just an enjoyable experience as h5 is a good game but as said beford didn’t feel like Halo) that many have been craving. If it is, it’ll always have a place tbh… Even in a crowded marketplace.

> 2533274801176657;3714:
> Just checking in to this forum every now and then, I’m still heavily in favour of building off foundational gameplay, so this feels like an actual upgraded sequel to a Halo game.
>
> I’m taking a new angle for my posts, as I won’t keep repeating how objectively sprint takes FAR more away from Halo’s ecosystem than it adds etc… But like it or not, I don’t see how anyone can deny that the 343 games currently have felt like games belonging to a different IP. Even they likely appreciate this fact hence the bold spiritual reboot they keep mentioning (it likely doesn’t just apply to story, but time will tell).
>
> I don’t want a carbon copy of h3, truth is I don’t wholly know what I want… Truth be told I’m not that creative or entitled lol. I know what I don’t want, and that’s another game that lacks what makes Halo unique and special, esp in an age of ‘low hanging fruit’ in gaming.
>
> So having a halo game that’s basically a graphically superior H3 at 120fps etc… Is not desirable or what’s being asked for. We just want a TRUE Halo sequel. To potentially be surprised and excited to see unexpected additions BUT within the framework of what makes Halo… Halo.
>
> Oh and for those saying ‘it’s 2020, he’s a super soldier etc…’ this very LITERAL approach to a medium that allows such creativity is how we end up with games that all feel the same. Eg. Metal Gear Solid vs Splinter Cell, in both games ur playing covert agents at the top of their fields. Sam Fisher can jump, the legendary soldier Solid Snake can not jump (unless contextually) during gameplay.
>
> Both make ‘sense’ in their gaming context and provide rewarding and vastly different gameplay experiences, Splinter Cell funnily enough lost its way when it deviated from its roots and I think Splinter Cell Blacklist was a solid attempt to return to previous glory…
>
> Halo retaining sprint, to many may make it ‘feel modern’ but that didn’t save H5 (and as proven it can feel ‘modern’ without sprint, I hope Infinite is the Halo sequel (not just an enjoyable experience as h5 is a good game but as said beford didn’t feel like Halo) that many have been craving. If it is, it’ll always have a place tbh… Even in a crowded marketplace.

Very true. Classic Halo has an appeal that isn’t being fulfilled by anything else right now. DOOM 2016 and Eternal are similar to it, but they don’t romanticize the DOOM setting. When you really think about it, the Halo universe is a tragic and miserable place to be. The Covenant, The Flood, corrupt Earth and Covenant governments, Brutes that are just difficult to deal with in general, and difficulties surrounding the remnants of the Forerunners and Precursors, seemingly unending war on a galactic scale. All of those things can make a person feel hopeless and lost. It’s a tragic place, but you play as a Spartan. Someone who is almost single-handedly capable of doing things that make life within that universe better on a grand scale. Nearly unstoppable in the face of tragedy, you are a real beacon of hope in the Halo setting.

Self-interjection: Understanding this, is what makes Palmer’s comment about The Master Chief in Halo 4 so insulting to fans of the series. Of course Chief can just blink and get over it, but that treatment is what makes the fans upset, not Chief. It paints Palmer as ignorant, pompous, and ungrateful. She’s supposed to be a good guy in Halo 4, yet she acts like an antagonist until the very end. Palmer was fully aware of The Master Chief’s accomplishments during the Human-Covenant War, and she was supposed to be high ranking and an expert in combat. So it’s inappropriate and irresponsible of her, especially in the situation she was in (Getting cornered by Prometheans.), to make such an immature and irreverent comment when seeing Chief for the first time. Ironically, her character introduction is out of character, because she doesn’t come across as an intelligent and capable soldier. Sorry about that. I just felt I needed to get this off my chest after 8 years.

Anyway… This is why I believe movement pacing is important to the overall feel of Halo, even past gameplay itself. You’re supposed to be that unstoppable force, so slowing down to shoot just seems absurd in this context. It subconsciously connects gameplay and setting. We need to remember that what feels right for a theme, does not necessarily have to make sense from a physical perspective. Think about Ace Combat, and flying through little tunnels. Air pressure/currents and real reaction times make it basically impossible. It’s absolutely stupid from a realistic point of view. But the game isn’t trying to emulate real life, and the act of flying through tunnels makes the player feel unstoppable. Hopefully, 343 can recapture that “always unstoppable” feel. And I think they’re really trying this time around, because they seem to understand the “hope” aspect of halo better than before.

> 2533274822068856;3715:
> > 2533274801176657;3714:
> > Just checking in to this forum every now and then, I’m still heavily in favour of building off foundational gameplay, so this feels like an actual upgraded sequel to a Halo game.
> >
> > I’m taking a new angle for my posts, as I won’t keep repeating how objectively sprint takes FAR more away from Halo’s ecosystem than it adds etc… But like it or not, I don’t see how anyone can deny that the 343 games currently have felt like games belonging to a different IP. Even they likely appreciate this fact hence the bold spiritual reboot they keep mentioning (it likely doesn’t just apply to story, but time will tell).
> >
> > I don’t want a carbon copy of h3, truth is I don’t wholly know what I want… Truth be told I’m not that creative or entitled lol. I know what I don’t want, and that’s another game that lacks what makes Halo unique and special, esp in an age of ‘low hanging fruit’ in gaming.
> >
> > So having a halo game that’s basically a graphically superior H3 at 120fps etc… Is not desirable or what’s being asked for. We just want a TRUE Halo sequel. To potentially be surprised and excited to see unexpected additions BUT within the framework of what makes Halo… Halo.
> >
> > Oh and for those saying ‘it’s 2020, he’s a super soldier etc…’ this very LITERAL approach to a medium that allows such creativity is how we end up with games that all feel the same. Eg. Metal Gear Solid vs Splinter Cell, in both games ur playing covert agents at the top of their fields. Sam Fisher can jump, the legendary soldier Solid Snake can not jump (unless contextually) during gameplay.
> >
> > Both make ‘sense’ in their gaming context and provide rewarding and vastly different gameplay experiences, Splinter Cell funnily enough lost its way when it deviated from its roots and I think Splinter Cell Blacklist was a solid attempt to return to previous glory…
> >
> > Halo retaining sprint, to many may make it ‘feel modern’ but that didn’t save H5 (and as proven it can feel ‘modern’ without sprint, I hope Infinite is the Halo sequel (not just an enjoyable experience as h5 is a good game but as said beford didn’t feel like Halo) that many have been craving. If it is, it’ll always have a place tbh… Even in a crowded marketplace.
>
> Very true. Classic Halo has an appeal that isn’t being fulfilled by anything else right now. DOOM 2016 and Eternal are similar to it, but they don’t romanticize the DOOM setting. When you really think about it, the Halo universe is a tragic and miserable place to be. The Covenant, The Flood, corrupt Earth and Covenant governments, Brutes that are just difficult to deal with in general, and difficulties surrounding the remnants of the Forerunners and Precursors, seemingly unending war on a galactic scale. All of those things can make a person feel hopeless and lost. It’s a tragic place, but you play as a Spartan. Someone who is almost single-handedly capable of doing things that make life within that universe better on a grand scale. Nearly unstoppable in the face of tragedy, you are a real beacon of hope in the Halo setting.
>
> Self-interjection: Understanding this, is what makes Palmer’s comment about The Master Chief in Halo 4 so insulting to fans of the series. Of course Chief can just blink and get over it, but that treatment is what makes the fans upset, not Chief. It paints Palmer as ignorant, pompous, and ungrateful. She’s supposed to be a good guy in Halo 4, yet she acts like an antagonist until the very end. Palmer was fully aware of The Master Chief’s accomplishments during the Human-Covenant War, and she was supposed to be high ranking and an expert in combat. So it’s inappropriate and irresponsible of her, especially in the situation she was in (Getting cornered by Prometheans.), to make such an immature and irreverent comment when seeing Chief for the first time. Ironically, her character introduction is out of character, because she doesn’t come across as an intelligent and capable soldier. Sorry about that. I just felt I needed to get this off my chest after 8 years.
>
> Anyway… This is why I believe movement pacing is important to the overall feel of Halo, even past gameplay itself. You’re supposed to be that unstoppable force, so slowing down to shoot just seems absurd in this context. It subconsciously connects gameplay and setting. We need to remember that what feels right for a theme, does not necessarily have to make sense from a physical perspective. Think about Ace Combat, and flying through little tunnels. Air pressure/currents and real reaction times make it basically impossible. It’s absolutely stupid from a realistic point of view. But the game isn’t trying to emulate real life, and the act of flying through tunnels makes the player feel unstoppable. Hopefully, 343 can recapture that “always unstoppable” feel. And I think they’re really trying this time around, because they seem to understand the “hope” aspect of halo better than before.

Your opening paragraph is nothing but facts. And yes they seem to understand the ‘hope’ aspect better for sure.

Your point about subconsciously connecting gameplay and setting is absolutely valid and you’re right Chief is meant to have the ‘momentum’ of a freight train, not fluctuate between speeds and drop attack for defense… That’s something us mere mortals have 2 do… But not a Spartan…

I just hope 343 realise capturing hope is one factor of what makes Halo… Halo. Mechanically they need to prove they understand this too… July will be ‘do or die’ 4 many…

The only valuable addition to this debate would be an overview of all theses and arguments, like a literature review.

> 2533274823699327;3717:
> The only valuable addition to this debate would be an overview of all theses and arguments, like a literature review.

I’ve thought of that. Even once wrote a bunch of notes on sprint arguments to see how feasible it is. But it’s just too pointless, even for me. Nobody on a forum reads a 30 page review article, least the people who’d need one the most. And in a year’s time, at least half the arguments will be only of historical interest, because Halo Infinite will be different.

> 2533274822068856;3715:
> Self-interjection: Understanding this, is what makes Palmer’s comment about The Master Chief in Halo 4 so insulting to fans of the series. Of course Chief can just blink and get over it, but that treatment is what makes the fans upset, not Chief. It paints Palmer as ignorant, pompous, and ungrateful. She’s supposed to be a good guy in Halo 4, yet she acts like an antagonist until the very end. Palmer was fully aware of The Master Chief’s accomplishments during the Human-Covenant War, and she was supposed to be high ranking and an expert in combat. So it’s inappropriate and irresponsible of her, especially in the situation she was in (Getting cornered by Prometheans.), to make such an immature and irreverent comment when seeing Chief for the first time.

Excuse me what? She’s never done anything to antagonize Chief. You pretty much only see her in two cutscenes, so there’s not even enough room for her to antagonize. Even when Del Rio is blatantly standing against him and trying to decommission Cortana, Palmer doesn’t intervene when Del Rio is ordering people to arrest him.

Palmer’s line was about how he’s literally larger than life, his reputation precedes him. The marines’ reaction right after the cutscene pretty much confirm it. He went from a soldier - the soldier who can turn things around to a legend and a myth, only for him to really be just a human like everyone else (one of the major themes of the story).

Palmer said the line as a joke and Chief…took it as a joke.

But this is me getting off topic so I’ll look at this quote I agree with.

> 2533274801176657;3714:
> So having a halo game that’s basically a graphically superior H3 at 120fps etc… Is not desirable or what’s being asked for. We just want a TRUE Halo sequel. To potentially be surprised and excited to see unexpected additions BUT within the framework of what makes Halo… Halo.

Pretty much this. Telling me that the only way to not be Halo 5 is to be exactly Halo 3 shows a lack of creativity. You might as well skip the middle man and tell me you want the next Halo gave to be exactly like Halo 5 because there’s apparently nowhere else but doubling down.

I’m against any mechanic that takes away “gun-always-up” gameplay. That needs to be retained for Halo to feel as it once did.

> 2779900484279609;3720:
> I’m against any mechanic that takes away “gun-always-up” gameplay. That needs to be retained for Halo to feel as it once did.

Well, so much for switching and reloading weapons.