The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > > > > Reasoning for pro-sprint: game feels faster and more fun to move, adds an additional layer of strategy (sacrifice shooting for speed), modernity appeals to large gaming population
> > > >
> > > > Over 40 million Overwatch players, over 20 million Counter-Strike players. Popular during modern times but do not include sprinting. Also no aiming down sights, only scopes. Halo can be popular and appealing without sprint.
> > > >
> > > > I agree with compromise, but I feel it’s essential to delete sprint for Halo. I’d be fine with higher base speed. If 343 is stubborn on making Halo “competitive”, then look to what MLG did for Halo 3 and up the base speed to 110%. That still looks fine.
> > >
> > > Over 60 million players play Call of Duty Warzone which has sprint. God knows how many more people play Fortnite which also has sprint. If we’re going to have a popularity contest - more successful games feature sprint than those without.
> >
> > The point is that games without sprint can be and are popular, and this is important to bring up because some people seem to be convinced that new games need to have sprint to be successful despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.
> >
> > How many games make sprint work is irrelevant because it doesn’t mean that it will work in every game, and specifically with the case of Halo sprint has caused numerous issues and has caused a split in the playerbase that did not exist with the earlier games despite new mechanics being added with each game.
>
> If Halo Infinite is THAT good without all the stuff added through the course of 343 development, it could bring back the players that fell off when new movement mechanics came, and also keep the people that liked how 4 and 5 worked. The issue is that 343 added sprint and the other abilities, so that imprint on the series is permanent. With that imprint being there, choosing one side or the other (classic or advanced) is much harder. But to please the majority of fans, I think some things like Spartan Charge, Ground Pound, and slide will be removed, but they will keep the thrusters and sprint.

But why would they keep the most divisive thing that most clearly breaks the flow of gameplay?

Halo 4 only added sprint, all of the other “advanced” movement mechanics came in Halo 5, and yet both games are greatly disliked by classic fans and lost their player populations quite quickly. Now of course there are other factors in Halo 4 such as the loadout system but it’s pretty obvious that sprint is the most problematic new mechanic that keeps classic fans away.

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> > > > > > Reasoning for pro-sprint: game feels faster and more fun to move, adds an additional layer of strategy (sacrifice shooting for speed), modernity appeals to large gaming population
> > > > >
> > > > > Over 40 million Overwatch players, over 20 million Counter-Strike players. Popular during modern times but do not include sprinting. Also no aiming down sights, only scopes. Halo can be popular and appealing without sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with compromise, but I feel it’s essential to delete sprint for Halo. I’d be fine with higher base speed. If 343 is stubborn on making Halo “competitive”, then look to what MLG did for Halo 3 and up the base speed to 110%. That still looks fine.
> > > >
> > > > Over 60 million players play Call of Duty Warzone which has sprint. God knows how many more people play Fortnite which also has sprint. If we’re going to have a popularity contest - more successful games feature sprint than those without.
> > >
> > > The point is that games without sprint can be and are popular, and this is important to bring up because some people seem to be convinced that new games need to have sprint to be successful despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.
> > >
> > > How many games make sprint work is irrelevant because it doesn’t mean that it will work in every game, and specifically with the case of Halo sprint has caused numerous issues and has caused a split in the playerbase that did not exist with the earlier games despite new mechanics being added with each game.
> >
> > If Halo Infinite is THAT good without all the stuff added through the course of 343 development, it could bring back the players that fell off when new movement mechanics came, and also keep the people that liked how 4 and 5 worked. The issue is that 343 added sprint and the other abilities, so that imprint on the series is permanent. With that imprint being there, choosing one side or the other (classic or advanced) is much harder. But to please the majority of fans, I think some things like Spartan Charge, Ground Pound, and slide will be removed, but they will keep the thrusters and sprint.
>
> But why would they keep the most divisive thing that most clearly breaks the flow of gameplay?
>
> Halo 4 only added sprint, all of the other “advanced” movement mechanics came in Halo 5, and yet both games are greatly disliked by classic fans and lost their player populations quite quickly. Now of course there are other factors in Halo 4 such as the loadout system but it’s pretty obvious that sprint is the most problematic new mechanic that keeps classic fans away.

I’ve said this before, but I have no problem finding matches in halo 5 four and a half years after release. Now as to why they would keep sprint, it basically boils down to the fact that after having sprint in halo for about a decade at this point, they would run the risk of -Yoink!- of more people by removing it than by keeping it. Obviously classic fans don’t usually like sprint, but there’s a whole new generation of halo fans that prefer sprint. 343 is between a rock and a hard place.

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> > > > > > > 2533274870929230;3605:
> > > > > > > Reasoning for pro-sprint: game feels faster and more fun to move, adds an additional layer of strategy (sacrifice shooting for speed), modernity appeals to large gaming population
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Over 40 million Overwatch players, over 20 million Counter-Strike players. Popular during modern times but do not include sprinting. Also no aiming down sights, only scopes. Halo can be popular and appealing without sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with compromise, but I feel it’s essential to delete sprint for Halo. I’d be fine with higher base speed. If 343 is stubborn on making Halo “competitive”, then look to what MLG did for Halo 3 and up the base speed to 110%. That still looks fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Over 60 million players play Call of Duty Warzone which has sprint. God knows how many more people play Fortnite which also has sprint. If we’re going to have a popularity contest - more successful games feature sprint than those without.
> > > >
> > > > The point is that games without sprint can be and are popular, and this is important to bring up because some people seem to be convinced that new games need to have sprint to be successful despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.
> > > >
> > > > How many games make sprint work is irrelevant because it doesn’t mean that it will work in every game, and specifically with the case of Halo sprint has caused numerous issues and has caused a split in the playerbase that did not exist with the earlier games despite new mechanics being added with each game.
> > >
> > > If Halo Infinite is THAT good without all the stuff added through the course of 343 development, it could bring back the players that fell off when new movement mechanics came, and also keep the people that liked how 4 and 5 worked. The issue is that 343 added sprint and the other abilities, so that imprint on the series is permanent. With that imprint being there, choosing one side or the other (classic or advanced) is much harder. But to please the majority of fans, I think some things like Spartan Charge, Ground Pound, and slide will be removed, but they will keep the thrusters and sprint.
> >
> > But why would they keep the most divisive thing that most clearly breaks the flow of gameplay?
> >
> > Halo 4 only added sprint, all of the other “advanced” movement mechanics came in Halo 5, and yet both games are greatly disliked by classic fans and lost their player populations quite quickly. Now of course there are other factors in Halo 4 such as the loadout system but it’s pretty obvious that sprint is the most problematic new mechanic that keeps classic fans away.
>
> I’ve said this before, but I have no problem finding matches in halo 5 four and a half years after release. Now as to why they would keep sprint, it basically boils down to the fact that after having sprint in halo for about a decade at this point, they would run the risk of -Yoink!- of more people by removing it than by keeping it. Obviously classic fans don’t usually like sprint, but there’s a whole new generation of halo fans that prefer sprint. 343 is between a rock and a hard place.

Your personal experience with finding matches doesn’t change the fact that Halo 5 lost many players, and that many of them left rather quickly, especially compared to the classic games. Halo 4 was even worse.

How would they possibly piss off more people by removing sprint? We already know that it’s mostly hated by classic fans, and that on top of that many fans of the new games are willing to settle for a higher BMS and FOV, or other creative ideas that have been discussed in this thread. Moreover the classic fans almost certainly outnumber the new fans as shown by the higher sales of the classic games and by how long population numbers of the classic games lasted.

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> Moreover the classic fans almost certainly outnumber the new fans as shown by the higher sales of the classic games and by how long population numbers of the classic games lasted.

You would expect 343 to have a very accurate picture of their demographic.

They would have a pretty good idea of how many people are playing which games.

And with the recent introduction of Mythic game types in Halo 5 - they would know what proportion of the population tried and then stayed in those play lists.

They could probably even break down each demographic into age / playing time / income / spending potential (prediliction for microtransactions) / etc.

And in a roundabout way… come July, we will hopefully know as well.

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I don’t like Sprint because it actually slows movement down by making maps larger, and making it so you can only shoot when you aren’t sprinting. But I can understand why some people like it. Firstly, sprinting does make sense from a realistic perspective. Super soldier or no super soldier, if you’re focusing on running in a straight line and nothing else, you’re going to go faster than if you’re trying to aim and shoot at the same time. This is just the way the human body structure work with physics. Secondly, it makes Halo feel familiar to them, because the basics of playing the game follow the same process as many other games that do have sprint as a mechanic. Sprint when you aren’t shooting. Stop sprinting when you want to shoot. People are used to it. They go through the same motions, which makes them feel more comfortable going from one game to the next.

To let people go through these familiar motions, while keeping things balanced respawn wise, and to retain a bit of that Halo feel, all playable spaces are increased in size. But you still have to slow yourself down to shoot. This means that when you want to shoot someone, you feel very slow and the maps feel very open. Though, in partial defense of increased map size, Thruster does help mitigate that exposed, helpless feeling you get when you start shooting people when you’re in the open, but you’re still going to be exposed for longer periods of time than you would be if map sizes were just smaller.

Sprint in Halo only serves to make it blend in with games that are fundamentally different from it, and it screws with the smooth pacing that made the classic Halo games, well, classics (I even include ODST in this, because even though you’re slower and can’t jump as high in it, the steady pace is still there in the movement.). I can deal with some of the other advanced mobility options because they, as concepts, do not necessarily have to drastically change the playable spaces, or pacing of the game, to suit them. But Sprint is the one that really screws with map design and pacing. If you want the player to be able to go from point A to point B in a timely manner, add the option to use a vehicle, or just make the distance between the two smaller by making smaller playable spaces combined with adjusting how fast you move without sprint.

Sprint or no Sprint, I’m going to play and enjoy Halo Infinite however it is because I still enjoy the setting and find the Halo 5 gameplay acceptable, yet still a little too different, from the gameplay that made me like the series in the first place. But I will be sad, because I will know the series really is under the control of people who chase other games, while riding on the coattails of the fame and past success of a series, instead staying true to the cherished and proven fundamental theories, of a series they did not originally create. Maybe playing the game will change my mind, but for now this is how I feel.

TL;DR: Sprint doesn’t make you faster in real world gameplay that involves you shooting and getting shot at. It introduces juddery gameplay by forcing you to slow down from the speed you’re actually meant to traverse maps at, to shoot. Sprint is an illusion of speed, that makes it familiar to move to Halo from other games that give the player the ability to Sprint. It’s just this simple.

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> 2585548714655118;3625:
> You would expect 343 to have a very accurate picture of their demographic.
>
> They would have a pretty good idea of how many people are playing which games.
>
> And with the recent introduction of Mythic game types in Halo 5 - they would know what proportion of the population tried and then stayed in those play lists.
>
> They could probably even break down each demographic into age / playing time / income / spending potential (prediliction for microtransactions) / etc.
>
> And in a roundabout way… come July, we will hopefully know as well.

Don’t overestimate what all this data is good for, we cannot even foresee election results properly…
There are just way too many variables.
All they know for sure is how many people play which game, thats it.

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> > > > Reasoning for pro-sprint: game feels faster and more fun to move, adds an additional layer of strategy (sacrifice shooting for speed), modernity appeals to large gaming population
> > >
> > > Over 40 million Overwatch players, over 20 million Counter-Strike players. Popular during modern times but do not include sprinting. Also no aiming down sights, only scopes. Halo can be popular and appealing without sprint.
> > >
> > > I agree with compromise, but I feel it’s essential to delete sprint for Halo. I’d be fine with higher base speed. If 343 is stubborn on making Halo “competitive”, then look to what MLG did for Halo 3 and up the base speed to 110%. That still looks fine.
> >
> > Over 60 million players play Call of Duty Warzone which has sprint. God knows how many more people play Fortnite which also has sprint. If we’re going to have a popularity contest - more successful games feature sprint than those without.
>
> You also forgot to mention that the only reason why those games are successful is because their FREE! When people don’t have to pay $60 for a game, you’d be surprised how successful they are. Also the fact they’re battle royal which is the trend right now. Such as the Titanfall trend games including Halo 5 followed 5 years ago.

Not exactly the point I was discussing but regardless, my money is on 343 making a chunk of Halo Infinite free to play also (especially if they don’t see Gamepass numbers increase upon release). Microsoft understands the industry is heading towards games as a service and can’t miss the boat.

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> Microsoft understands the industry is heading towards games as a service and can’t miss the boat.

This sounds absolutely terrifying.

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> And with the recent introduction of Mythic game types in Halo 5 - they would know what proportion of the population tried and then stayed in those play lists.

Little too late to start gathering data on demographics using a single late-to-the-party playlist, don’t you think?

Considering players who prefer classic gameplay either didn’t purchase Halo 5 at all, or left a long time ago, as will most likely the more casual players have done. I don’t see a large portion of the current remaining playerbase to be anything else than those who truly do not wish to play anything else, the, “fanatics”, in lack of better terms, at the moment.

Fun anecdote: jumped online to play MtG EDH yesterday, and through some casual banter, games came up, CoD, Battlefield, Fortnite, Apex all others agreeing they’d rather play those games than against a land-destruction deck. I mentioned Halo, and there was a unanimous agreement that Halo went severely south with Halo 4, and that they’re eagerly awaiting Halo Infinite to return to pre-Reach gameplay.

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> > > > > Reasoning for pro-sprint: game feels faster and more fun to move, adds an additional layer of strategy (sacrifice shooting for speed), modernity appeals to large gaming population
> > > >
> > > > Over 40 million Overwatch players, over 20 million Counter-Strike players. Popular during modern times but do not include sprinting. Also no aiming down sights, only scopes. Halo can be popular and appealing without sprint.
> > > >
> > > > I agree with compromise, but I feel it’s essential to delete sprint for Halo. I’d be fine with higher base speed. If 343 is stubborn on making Halo “competitive”, then look to what MLG did for Halo 3 and up the base speed to 110%. That still looks fine.
> > >
> > > Over 60 million players play Call of Duty Warzone which has sprint. God knows how many more people play Fortnite which also has sprint. If we’re going to have a popularity contest - more successful games feature sprint than those without.
> >
> > You also forgot to mention that the only reason why those games are successful is because their FREE! When people don’t have to pay $60 for a game, you’d be surprised how successful they are. Also the fact they’re battle royal which is the trend right now. Such as the Titanfall trend games including Halo 5 followed 5 years ago.
>
> Not exactly the point I was discussing but regardless, my money is on 343 making a chunk of Halo Infinite free to play also (especially if they don’t see Gamepass numbers increase upon release). Microsoft understands the industry is heading towards games as a service and can’t miss the boat.

That sounds like a bad thing for the whole industry, not just a particular Halo game.

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> > Microsoft understands the industry is heading towards games as a service and can’t miss the boat.
>
> This sounds absolutely terrifying.

Not to the millions of gamers enjoying free games.

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> > > > > > 2533274870929230;3605:
> > > > > > Reasoning for pro-sprint: game feels faster and more fun to move, adds an additional layer of strategy (sacrifice shooting for speed), modernity appeals to large gaming population
> > > > >
> > > > > Over 40 million Overwatch players, over 20 million Counter-Strike players. Popular during modern times but do not include sprinting. Also no aiming down sights, only scopes. Halo can be popular and appealing without sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with compromise, but I feel it’s essential to delete sprint for Halo. I’d be fine with higher base speed. If 343 is stubborn on making Halo “competitive”, then look to what MLG did for Halo 3 and up the base speed to 110%. That still looks fine.
> > > >
> > > > Over 60 million players play Call of Duty Warzone which has sprint. God knows how many more people play Fortnite which also has sprint. If we’re going to have a popularity contest - more successful games feature sprint than those without.
> > >
> > > You also forgot to mention that the only reason why those games are successful is because their FREE! When people don’t have to pay $60 for a game, you’d be surprised how successful they are. Also the fact they’re battle royal which is the trend right now. Such as the Titanfall trend games including Halo 5 followed 5 years ago.
> >
> > Not exactly the point I was discussing but regardless, my money is on 343 making a chunk of Halo Infinite free to play also (especially if they don’t see Gamepass numbers increase upon release). Microsoft understands the industry is heading towards games as a service and can’t miss the boat.
>
> That sounds like a bad thing for the whole industry, not just a particular Halo game.

I think Epic Games and Infinity Ward might have a different opinion.

3634

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> As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?

Why would we want to have the game use running and using jet packs? That whole transition into making halo a game with unnecessary added movement was a result of panic over what non halo games were doing differently. If I wanted to play those games that have low skill curves with sprint, I’ll play a non halo game. Let’s have infinite be based on a formula that the original halo fans prefer. The ones that made this franchise possible in the first place.

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> > > > > > 2533274823699327;3607:
> > > > > > > 2533274870929230;3605:
> > > > > > > Reasoning for pro-sprint: game feels faster and more fun to move, adds an additional layer of strategy (sacrifice shooting for speed), modernity appeals to large gaming population
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Over 40 million Overwatch players, over 20 million Counter-Strike players. Popular during modern times but do not include sprinting. Also no aiming down sights, only scopes. Halo can be popular and appealing without sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with compromise, but I feel it’s essential to delete sprint for Halo. I’d be fine with higher base speed. If 343 is stubborn on making Halo “competitive”, then look to what MLG did for Halo 3 and up the base speed to 110%. That still looks fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Over 60 million players play Call of Duty Warzone which has sprint. God knows how many more people play Fortnite which also has sprint. If we’re going to have a popularity contest - more successful games feature sprint than those without.
> > > >
> > > > You also forgot to mention that the only reason why those games are successful is because their FREE! When people don’t have to pay $60 for a game, you’d be surprised how successful they are. Also the fact they’re battle royal which is the trend right now. Such as the Titanfall trend games including Halo 5 followed 5 years ago.
> > >
> > > Not exactly the point I was discussing but regardless, my money is on 343 making a chunk of Halo Infinite free to play also (especially if they don’t see Gamepass numbers increase upon release). Microsoft understands the industry is heading towards games as a service and can’t miss the boat.
> >
> > That sounds like a bad thing for the whole industry, not just a particular Halo game.
>
> I think Epic Games and Infinity Ward might have a different opinion.

Of course a company’s opinion would be different, they take the route of most revenue because they also don’t want to “miss the boat.”

That doesn’t mean I don’t find that whole structure damaging to the industry (I have my own separate issues with Epic Games).

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> > > 2533274808548953;3628:
> > > Microsoft understands the industry is heading towards games as a service and can’t miss the boat.
> >
> > This sounds absolutely terrifying.
>
> Not to the millions of gamers enjoying free games.

Good for them, I guess. But how is that supposed to make me feel less terrified?

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> > > > Microsoft understands the industry is heading towards games as a service and can’t miss the boat.
> > >
> > > This sounds absolutely terrifying.
> >
> > Not to the millions of gamers enjoying free games.
>
> Good for them, I guess. But how is that supposed to make me feel less terrified?

Terrified? C’mon now, that’s quite the hyperbole. We’re just talking about video games after all.

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> > > > 2533274825830455;3629:
> > > > > 2533274808548953;3628:
> > > > > Microsoft understands the industry is heading towards games as a service and can’t miss the boat.
> > > >
> > > > This sounds absolutely terrifying.
> > >
> > > Not to the millions of gamers enjoying free games.
> >
> > Good for them, I guess. But how is that supposed to make me feel less terrified?
>
> Terrified? C’mon now, that’s quite the hyperbole. We’re just talking about video games after all.

It’s a hobby, but some of us are passionate about it. Games as a Service have a lot of issues that don’t make them appealing to long-time gamers. Games like Anthem, Fallout 76, Sea of Thieves and various others are examples of GaaS being a very bad idea, as they came out broken and largely not worth playing. They can, and some instances have been, fixed with added content. That doesn’t fix the problem for the people that hopped on early to a broken, buggy experience that was nowhere near worth the cost of admission and had to wait years for a better experience that’s more in line with the original vision that they got sold on. Games like Anthem are particularly bad because they still haven’t been fixed.

If GaaS is the future of video gaming, I’m going to stop buying games entirely.

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> > > > 2533274825830455;3629:
> > > > > 2533274808548953;3628:
> > > > > Microsoft understands the industry is heading towards games as a service and can’t miss the boat.
> > > >
> > > > This sounds absolutely terrifying.
> > >
> > > Not to the millions of gamers enjoying free games.
> >
> > Good for them, I guess. But how is that supposed to make me feel less terrified?
>
> Terrified? C’mon now, that’s quite the hyperbole. We’re just talking about video games after all.

Well, go back to the Oblivion Horse armor, then from there, trace this industry’s steps to this point.

On top of that, consider that The Culling has a “pay for each match” thing going on, something that may as well just be a few years too early, before the rest of the industry follow suit. Or that they now think they could easily charge for reloading.

Then we’ve got, less content, games called “barebones” with promises to get more added later, Anthem comes to mind.
Or, games which get a sequel where a feature or content gets stripped out, broken up and actually sold back to the player, looking at Destiny armor colors, to name atleast one.

Modes shoehorned in to commodate loot boxes, fear of missing out campaigns, digital currency manipulation, “massive sales” for digital goods which will literally only go out if someone pulls the plug on everything.

The whole idea of “Games as a service” is to nickle and dime you dead, they do not care about you, the care about your money.

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> > > > 2533274808548953;3613:
> > > > > 2533274823699327;3607:
> > > > > > 2533274870929230;3605:
> > > > > > Reasoning for pro-sprint: game feels faster and more fun to move, adds an additional layer of strategy (sacrifice shooting for speed), modernity appeals to large gaming population
> > > > >
> > > > > Over 40 million Overwatch players, over 20 million Counter-Strike players. Popular during modern times but do not include sprinting. Also no aiming down sights, only scopes. Halo can be popular and appealing without sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with compromise, but I feel it’s essential to delete sprint for Halo. I’d be fine with higher base speed. If 343 is stubborn on making Halo “competitive”, then look to what MLG did for Halo 3 and up the base speed to 110%. That still looks fine.
> > > >
> > > > Over 60 million players play Call of Duty Warzone which has sprint. God knows how many more people play Fortnite which also has sprint. If we’re going to have a popularity contest - more successful games feature sprint than those without.
> > >
> > > The point is that games without sprint can be and are popular, and this is important to bring up because some people seem to be convinced that new games need to have sprint to be successful despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.
> > >
> > > How many games make sprint work is irrelevant because it doesn’t mean that it will work in every game, and specifically with the case of Halo sprint has caused numerous issues and has caused a split in the playerbase that did not exist with the earlier games despite new mechanics being added with each game.
> >
> > If Halo Infinite is THAT good without all the stuff added through the course of 343 development, it could bring back the players that fell off when new movement mechanics came, and also keep the people that liked how 4 and 5 worked. The issue is that 343 added sprint and the other abilities, so that imprint on the series is permanent. With that imprint being there, choosing one side or the other (classic or advanced) is much harder. But to please the majority of fans, I think some things like Spartan Charge, Ground Pound, and slide will be removed, but they will keep the thrusters and sprint.
>
> But why would they keep the most divisive thing that most clearly breaks the flow of gameplay?
>
> Halo 4 only added sprint, all of the other “advanced” movement mechanics came in Halo 5, and yet both games are greatly disliked by classic fans and lost their player populations quite quickly. Now of course there are other factors in Halo 4 such as the loadout system but it’s pretty obvious that sprint is the most problematic new mechanic that keeps classic fans away.

At the end of the day, I’m still going to buy it. I’m mostly a campaign person, so the movement won’t bother me too much whichever they choose. I still play Halo 5 MP, just a little less that the others.

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> > > > > > In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> > > > >
> > > > > please not… if that’s the case then I’ll skip this one.
> > > >
> > > > You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.
> > >
> > > Yet DOOM is so different from the original game, they did it right, Halo also did it right, the thing is this bunch of people wallowing in nostalgia cause Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the most successful games at the moment. H5 was a success, it has maintained player population for many years. These complainers comparing it to H2-3 levels just don’t understand how much of a different era it is.
> > >
> > > The community complains, yet they’re a small percentage of the players. Their opinion and input is really important, but it’s not be-all, specially if they can’t get over a 15 year old game.
> >
> > DOOM maintains the core of what made DOOM 1 and 2 good though. Just get in there, shoot all the stuff, and leave. Halo 5 is nearly unrecognizable when put next to Halo 3 or Halo 2. I don’t think anyone is wallowing in nostalgia. Halo 2 and Halo 3 kept their player-base very well. Also, Halo 5 is probably a success because it was the only new Halo game released on the Xbox One and was the only one that actually worked on launch.
> >
> > Also, Citation Needed for your last paragraph.
>
> Campaign wise there isn’t much difference in the Halo core. As for the Arena shooter core in MP, it has changed, when it did the most on H4 it wasn’t well taken and a failure, yet it came back in H5 and it keeps core gameplay with new mechanics, which is what Doom does. I have rarely seen complains on Halo’s campaign gameplay, the story is a different thing. In the end, let’s see how much population Doom Eternal has in 4 years and how it compares to today’s H5… I don’t think Doom’s MP is even a deal.
>
> As I say, 2 and 3 kept their base cause the era was so much different, Live was new, H2 was the first of it’s kind, there weren’t many other competitors, there were less games, etc… times change.
>
> I don’t have the citation and I won’t do the numbers, but I’m pretty sure that maybe even less than 1% of the halo players have participated in this topic. You’re free to do the math if you want to.

I think you are severely underestimating the amount of classic Halo gameplay fans. Most of them are not simply nostalgia mongers, they just like the way Halo played in the past and don’t like how it plays now.

This idea that the classic Halo fans are a minority is very worrying to me. On waypoint, it looks more like that due to the fact that most people on waypoint are fans of the CURRENT games, while classic fans wouldn’t bother posting on forums for a game they don’t play. But at the end of the day the player base and community was significantly larger for the older games. This is not to say that the new games are objectively worse, but that there is a LARGE market for a classic Halo gameplay styled game, and that demand is not really reflected well on Waypoint. Look at classic Halo players like Ninja who have left the series with the recent installments, but who frequently express desire for a classic Halo game. Similarly, on YouTube you will find a large proportion of channels expressing a desire to play classic Halo. These people have large fanbases and large influence. People do want this, and that isn’t to say we should just ignore all the newer fans, but classic fans have been starved of content for years now.

This is something I hope 343 is noticing, and that a classic Halo game would likely do extremely well and I hope they don’t take the Waypoint feedback as gospel. Gotta be aware of the sample set.