The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
3522

> 2535406417205447;3517:
> > 2535418581509384;3514:
> > I think Halo Infinite should have a return of everything Spartan and Armor Abilities. Equal starts and Reach / Halo 4 style Custom Loadouts for Custom Games so players have a choice of a game session they want to set up. But Equal Starts only for Matchmaking.
>
> the one abilities to remove is spartan charge and the game is 100% ready

Both Spartan Charge and Ground Pound both need removing. Keep Sprint, Slide, Clamber and Thrust. All Armor Abilities from Reach and Halo 4 for Custom Games all need to make a comeback ~ Armor Lock, Jet Pack, Drop Shield, Active Camo, Hologram, Evade, Hardlight Shield, Promethian Vision, Autosentry, Regeneration Field.

3523

I feel like if 343 takes out the Halo 5 Guardians movement it may make speed runners angry because they might have to kill more enemies and that would add time to there clock and they don’t want that. Instead of getting to run past a room of enemies they might have to kill a few things before they get to continue. And I know I might get hate for this but I really don’t want classic movements.

Remember this is just my opinion.

3524

> 2535445244304175;3523:
> I feel like if 343 takes out the Halo 5 Guardians movement it may make speed runners angry because they might have to kill more enemies and that would add time to there clock and they don’t want that. Instead of getting to run past a room of enemies they might have to kill a few things before they get to continue.

You do realize that speedrunners don’t want games that are easy to run? They’re not trying to complete the game fast because they hate playing it. They’re not skipping encounters because they don’t like combat. They’re not looking for games that are easy to complete fast; they’re looking for games that are interesting and challenging to speedrun. Completing the game fast is just the challenge, it’s not the reason why people speedrun. It’s not the time that matters, but the process that it took to achieve that time.

I’m not an expert on Halo 5 speedrunning, but I can bet that there are some interesting strategies Spartan Abilities have introduced, and valid reasons why Spartan Abilities are good for speedrunning. However, I think your post misses the point of speedrunning and isn’t really helpful to the interests of speedrunners. Your conclusion could be right, but your reasoning isn’t.

3525

> 2533274825830455;3524:
> > 2535445244304175;3523:
> > I feel like if 343 takes out the Halo 5 Guardians movement it may make speed runners angry because they might have to kill more enemies and that would add time to there clock and they don’t want that. Instead of getting to run past a room of enemies they might have to kill a few things before they get to continue.
>
> You do realize that speedrunners don’t want games that are easy to run? They’re not trying to complete the game fast because they hate playing it. They’re not skipping encounters because they don’t like combat. They’re not looking for games that are easy to complete fast; they’re looking for games that are interesting and challenging to speedrun. Completing the game fast is just the challenge, it’s not the reason why people speedrun. It’s not the time that matters, but the process that it took to achieve that time.
>
> I’m not an expert on Halo 5 speedrunning, but I can bet that there are some interesting strategies Spartan Abilities have introduced, and valid reasons why Spartan Abilities are good for speedrunning. However, I think your post misses the point of speedrunning and isn’t really helpful to the interests of speedrunners. Your conclusion could be right, but your reasoning isn’t.

Thank you. You made me realize I’m kinda stupid.

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> 2535418581509384;3522:
> > 2535406417205447;3517:
> > > 2535418581509384;3514:
> > > I think Halo Infinite should have a return of everything Spartan and Armor Abilities. Equal starts and Reach / Halo 4 style Custom Loadouts for Custom Games so players have a choice of a game session they want to set up. But Equal Starts only for Matchmaking.
> >
> > the one abilities to remove is spartan charge and the game is 100% ready
>
> Both Spartan Charge and Ground Pound both need removing. Keep Sprint, Slide, Clamber and Thrust. All Armor Abilities from Reach and Halo 4 for Custom Games all need to make a comeback ~ Armor Lock, Jet Pack, Drop Shield, Active Camo, Hologram, Evade, Hardlight Shield, Promethian Vision, Autosentry, Regeneration Field.

thats quite a bold opinion, with little explanation… and starting the list off with armor lock out of all the abilities you could have mentioned first. Do you have any idea how conflicted the community is about armor lock? All reasoning made against “advanced movement” double goes for armor lock.
(and then I realized you mentioned “for custom games” . If by that you mean not competitive matchmaking then sure more options are great.)

Although I like variety, I actually dont think going back to those armor abilities is a good idea. We already have a game that has those. I rather advaocate for new things… or old things with a spin on them. Example: halo reach had the drop sheild which was pretty much a nerfed bubble sheild but you could deploy it multiple times.
Another example: Halo 4 had thruster pack which pretty much was a worse evade. . . Im not saying that was a good thing. Im just saying innovation in that manner, without the degrading is in my opinion a good idea.

However there are somethings fundamentally tied to the univere that cant really change much… like active camo… only active camo from your list lol. But take this for instance. Instead of auto sentry, how about depolying a turret that has the option to be manned.
Or instead of promethian vision, how about an sonar echo blast that shows enemies for a moment on your motion tracker even if they were crouching?

And when you mention those things … are those map pickups? or are we going back to loadouts?

Steering back on topic:
If thrust returns I want a serious reworking of it…
and im actually kind of optimistic in that it probably will be.

Going back to what we had is most likely not going to happen imo… nor do i even want that.

3527

It’s crazy to me that after almost 13 years since the last release of a classic halo. People are passionate enough to come on a forum for studio that has never developed anything for them and still engage in debates about it. If that doesn’t show how controversial adding advanced mobility into halo was I don’t know what else will.

I guess I’ll scream into the quarantined void 343i isn’t listening too as well. I think halo should just use halo 3 as a base and bring the advancements of armor customization(with halo 3 style unlocks), forge and custom games a long for the ride. Give me H3’s Social and ranked matchmaking system as well with H5’s custom game browser. We can add new features in patches and if they don’t work out we can change/remove them if they brake the game.

As for my opinion on modern halo… I think it was a mistake. A misstep that started with Reach and only got worse because 343i used Reach as the base for all their games.

I’ve said it somewhere else on this forum and i’ll repeat it here. I personally believe Reach was halo’s version of Counter Strike: Source. I loved source when it released in 2004 and it did do some things really well… It also completely fractured the counter strike community into two camps. (CS 1.6 purists and Source kids)

When you look at how valve handled the situation for CS:GO, you may mistakenly believe Valve had somehow got it right immediately. If you only look at current state of CS:GO I can forgive your ignorance on the subject. For those of us that played back in 2012 however… we know the truth. CS:GO sucked SO. MUCH… Its release had combined both the 1.6 and Source communities, just not in the way they wanted it to. We all, universally, hated it. (Giving off some Halo 4 vibes) Valve didn’t give up though, they kept changing the game trying to fix its sloppy launch. They scrapped/tweaked a lot of GO’s disliked features, added little 1.6 over here, some source over there and before we know it mid way through 2013 we had ourselves a pretty respectable Counter Strike. I could go into more detail with the changes made but this is a Halo forum not an Counter Strike fanboy’s wikipedia article.

3528

I apologize in advance for my pathetic artistic ability.

Alright, I think this image may help people understand what I was talking about:

1920×1080 45.8 KB

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> > > > 2533274844174765;3422:
> > > > This is insane, and it frightens me how many people in this forum want to keep the Halo 5 mechanics, even if its design is flawed. It has been proven again and again, that the mechanics do not make the game faster when the map has just gone bigger. Its a trick, nothing else. The mechanics make the game slower. The only thing that should stay in the Infinite is dash. Remove sprint and all the other nonsense, and increase movement speed with 10%.
> > >
> > > It doesn’t matter how many times you “prove” that halo 5’s mechanics are bad. If people enjoy them more than OG halo, you’re not gonna change their mind. Just like how I could spend forever trying to convince you that Halo 3’s movement is incredibly boring and slow. Nothing would change. Besides, regardless of if you like the mechanics in halo 5 or not, they are still designed and balanced pretty well (save for Spartan charge and ground pound). It increases the skill ceiling and adds another dynamic to the gameplay. It’s not really fair to just dismiss the new movement because you don’t like it.
> >
> > If this goes beyond just liking it or not liking it and they are objectively well designed and balance, that means someone can prove that it’s well designed or not well designed, which is what that guy claimed has happened. Especially since you can measure speed, so you can absolutely be right/wrong in saying Halo 3 is slow (boring is entirely subjective)
> >
> > Aren’t you doing the same thing, dismissing his solution just because you do like the mechanics?
>
> No, I’m not. Because regardless of if you think the mechanics should be in a halo game, pretty much everyone agrees that the game is fundamentally well designed, and the game has been praised because of that. I’m not dismissing his solution, because frankly I’ll buy the next halo game no matter what design philosophy they decide to go with. I happen to disagree with him, but I never said that his idea was insane or nonsense, like he said about those who would prefer a halo game with enhanced mobility.

You are completely missing the point here though. I do not think it is a matter of arguing whether Halo 3 or Halo 5 is more balanced, but rather acknowledging that Halo 5 was a massive step away from the defining characteristics of Halo gameplay. I really enjoy Halo 5 and think the mechanics are super well tuned and fun, but that doesn’t mean it offers a Halo experience. It feels like an entirely new franchise almost. I understand why people like the new gameplay, but to not acknowledge that it is extremely different to classic Halo is just wrong. Classic fans want a Halo game that feels like Halo, and it sucks that 343 has created this situation by diverging in the first place. The new gameplay just isn’t really what Halo was, and I even if you are a new fan, classic Halo players haven’t gotten that experience in a new game since 2010. Come on, throw us a bone here.

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> 2533274853622530;22:
> > 2535449076192416;1:
> > In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
>
> please not… if that’s the case then I’ll skip this one.

You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.

3531

hey I really expected something worse, it has improved mechanics which was what I longed for the most, and more things that really surprised me, completely gone, it reminds me of the times where I conceived the game watching the HD movie
that came out of Halo. remember?

3532

> 2533274925072192;3530:
> > 2533274853622530;22:
> > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> >
> > please not… if that’s the case then I’ll skip this one.
>
> You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.

Yet DOOM is so different from the original game, they did it right, Halo also did it right, the thing is this bunch of people wallowing in nostalgia cause Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the most successful games at the moment. H5 was a success, it has maintained player population for many years. These complainers comparing it to H2-3 levels just don’t understand how much of a different era it is.

The community complains, yet they’re a small percentage of the players. Their opinion and input is really important, but it’s not be-all, specially if they can’t get over a 15 year old game.

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> > 2533274925072192;3530:
> > > 2533274853622530;22:
> > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> > >
> > > please not… if that’s the case then I’ll skip this one.
> >
> > You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.
>
> Yet DOOM is so different from the original game, they did it right, Halo also did it right, the thing is this bunch of people wallowing in nostalgia cause Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the most successful games at the moment. H5 was a success, it has maintained player population for many years. These complainers comparing it to H2-3 levels just don’t understand how much of a different era it is.
>
> The community complains, yet they’re a small percentage of the players. Their opinion and input is really important, but it’s not be-all, specially if they can’t get over a 15 year old game.

DOOM maintains the core of what made DOOM 1 and 2 good though. Just get in there, shoot all the stuff, and leave. Halo 5 is nearly unrecognizable when put next to Halo 3 or Halo 2. I don’t think anyone is wallowing in nostalgia. Halo 2 and Halo 3 kept their player-base very well. Also, Halo 5 is probably a success because it was the only new Halo game released on the Xbox One and was the only one that actually worked on launch.

Also, Citation Needed for your last paragraph.

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> > 2533274925072192;3530:
> > > 2533274853622530;22:
> > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> > >
> > > please not… if that’s the case then I’ll skip this one.
> >
> > You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.
>
> Yet DOOM is so different from the original game, they did it right, Halo also did it right, the thing is this bunch of people wallowing in nostalgia cause Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the most successful games at the moment. H5 was a success, it has maintained player population for many years. These complainers comparing it to H2-3 levels just don’t understand how much of a different era it is.
>
> The community complains, yet they’re a small percentage of the players. Their opinion and input is really important, but it’s not be-all, specially if they can’t get over a 15 year old game.

Tsassi has a link on his signature box. If you click it you will see a link to a google drive folder or something. In it, you will find the placement of Halo 3 in Xbox Live Most played games from 2007 to 2013. You will see that it never went up in any spot above the top 20 even up to the end of 2013 if we go by his stats. This means it did very well despite SIX very popular CoD games being released during this time (I’d argue more popular than any CoD released during Halo 5’s lifespan other than MW 2019) and it even went up against games that Halo 5 is competed with such as GTA V. On the contrary, Halo 5 has been in the 30s for well over a year. Currently, it is at spot #37, only 6 spots ahead of Black Ops 2 (#43).

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> > 2712882632690848;3532:
> > > 2533274925072192;3530:
> > > > 2533274853622530;22:
> > > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > > In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> > > >
> > > > please not… if that’s the case then I’ll skip this one.
> > >
> > > You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.
> >
> > Yet DOOM is so different from the original game, they did it right, Halo also did it right, the thing is this bunch of people wallowing in nostalgia cause Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the most successful games at the moment. H5 was a success, it has maintained player population for many years. These complainers comparing it to H2-3 levels just don’t understand how much of a different era it is.
> >
> > The community complains, yet they’re a small percentage of the players. Their opinion and input is really important, but it’s not be-all, specially if they can’t get over a 15 year old game.
>
> DOOM maintains the core of what made DOOM 1 and 2 good though. Just get in there, shoot all the stuff, and leave. Halo 5 is nearly unrecognizable when put next to Halo 3 or Halo 2. I don’t think anyone is wallowing in nostalgia. Halo 2 and Halo 3 kept their player-base very well. Also, Halo 5 is probably a success because it was the only new Halo game released on the Xbox One and was the only one that actually worked on launch.
>
> Also, Citation Needed for your last paragraph.

Campaign wise there isn’t much difference in the Halo core. As for the Arena shooter core in MP, it has changed, when it did the most on H4 it wasn’t well taken and a failure, yet it came back in H5 and it keeps core gameplay with new mechanics, which is what Doom does. I have rarely seen complains on Halo’s campaign gameplay, the story is a different thing. In the end, let’s see how much population Doom Eternal has in 4 years and how it compares to today’s H5… I don’t think Doom’s MP is even a deal.

As I say, 2 and 3 kept their base cause the era was so much different, Live was new, H2 was the first of it’s kind, there weren’t many other competitors, there were less games, etc… times change.

I don’t have the citation and I won’t do the numbers, but I’m pretty sure that maybe even less than 1% of the halo players have participated in this topic. You’re free to do the math if you want to.

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> 2712882632690848;3535:
> > 2533275031935123;3533:
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> > > > 2533274925072192;3530:
> > > > > 2533274853622530;22:
> > > > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > > > In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> > > > >
> > > > > please not… if that’s the case then I’ll skip this one.
> > > >
> > > > You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.
> > >
> > > Yet DOOM is so different from the original game, they did it right, Halo also did it right, the thing is this bunch of people wallowing in nostalgia cause Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the most successful games at the moment. H5 was a success, it has maintained player population for many years. These complainers comparing it to H2-3 levels just don’t understand how much of a different era it is.
> > >
> > > The community complains, yet they’re a small percentage of the players. Their opinion and input is really important, but it’s not be-all, specially if they can’t get over a 15 year old game.
> >
> > DOOM maintains the core of what made DOOM 1 and 2 good though. Just get in there, shoot all the stuff, and leave. Halo 5 is nearly unrecognizable when put next to Halo 3 or Halo 2. I don’t think anyone is wallowing in nostalgia. Halo 2 and Halo 3 kept their player-base very well. Also, Halo 5 is probably a success because it was the only new Halo game released on the Xbox One and was the only one that actually worked on launch.
> >
> > Also, Citation Needed for your last paragraph.
>
> Campaign wise there isn’t much difference in the Halo core. As for the Arena shooter core in MP, it has changed, when it did the most on H4 it wasn’t well taken and a failure, yet it came back in H5 and it keeps core gameplay with new mechanics, which is what Doom does. I have rarely seen complains on Halo’s campaign gameplay, the story is a different thing. In the end, let’s see how much population Doom Eternal has in 4 years and how it compares to today’s H5… I don’t think Doom’s MP is even a deal.
>
> As I say, 2 and 3 kept their base cause the era was so much different, Live was new, H2 was the first of it’s kind, there weren’t many other competitors, there were less games, etc… times change.
>
> I don’t have the citation and I won’t do the numbers, but I’m pretty sure that maybe even less than 1% of the halo players have participated in this topic. You’re free to do the math if you want to.

While correlation does not equal causation, there is a clear correlation between Bungie/343i screwing with the core gameplay to become more like CoD/Titanfall and the decline of the series. A lot of people left after Halo 4 and never came back. Which is why I assume 343i doesn’t want to give sales numbers for Halo 5. If your sales are great, you’ll scream it from the rooftops. Hell, the only reason I came back was because of the Master Chief Collection coming to PC.

As for Doom, multi-player hasn’t really been a big emphasis for the Doom series like Halo has been. That being said, its core gameplay is still praised by its audience. Halo 5’s (and 4’s, and Reach’s) has been divisive since day one. The difference between Doom Eternal’s changes is that the audience feels the changes are natural evolutions that build from the core. The ones who defend 343i’s Halo games don’t argue from this perspective. They know the core was thrown out, but don’t care. That’s where the fundamental breakdown is.

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> 2712882632690848;3535:
> As I say, 2 and 3 kept their base cause the era was so much different, Live was new, H2 was the first of it’s kind, there weren’t many other competitors, there were less games, etc… times change.

Most games that Halo 5 had to compete against are from the same series Halo 3 had to compete against.

  • Call of Duty 3, 4, WaW, etc. - Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2 - Gears of War - Battlefield: Bad CompanyAnd then games that weren’t directly a first person shooter but were still extremely popular:

  • Fallout 3 - GTA IV - Crackdown - OblivionEven games that don’t really have a franchise right now to compare to the new IPs that didn’t have a franchise back then:

  • Lost Planet - Left 4 Dead - Fable 2I don’t know where this idea that there just “wasn’t many games” out there came from, it’s not like gaming exploded in 2011 or anything. The only reason people can’t remember those games back then was because Halo was…better than its competitors.

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> > 2712882632690848;3535:
> > > 2533275031935123;3533:
> > > > 2712882632690848;3532:
> > > > > 2533274925072192;3530:
> > > > > > 2533274853622530;22:
> > > > > > > 2535449076192416;1:
> > > > > > > In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > please not… if that’s the case then I’ll skip this one.
> > > > >
> > > > > You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.
> > > >
> > > > Yet DOOM is so different from the original game, they did it right, Halo also did it right, the thing is this bunch of people wallowing in nostalgia cause Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the most successful games at the moment. H5 was a success, it has maintained player population for many years. These complainers comparing it to H2-3 levels just don’t understand how much of a different era it is.
> > > >
> > > > The community complains, yet they’re a small percentage of the players. Their opinion and input is really important, but it’s not be-all, specially if they can’t get over a 15 year old game.
> > >
> > > DOOM maintains the core of what made DOOM 1 and 2 good though. Just get in there, shoot all the stuff, and leave. Halo 5 is nearly unrecognizable when put next to Halo 3 or Halo 2. I don’t think anyone is wallowing in nostalgia. Halo 2 and Halo 3 kept their player-base very well. Also, Halo 5 is probably a success because it was the only new Halo game released on the Xbox One and was the only one that actually worked on launch.
> > >
> > > Also, Citation Needed for your last paragraph.
> >
> > Campaign wise there isn’t much difference in the Halo core. As for the Arena shooter core in MP, it has changed, when it did the most on H4 it wasn’t well taken and a failure, yet it came back in H5 and it keeps core gameplay with new mechanics, which is what Doom does. I have rarely seen complains on Halo’s campaign gameplay, the story is a different thing. In the end, let’s see how much population Doom Eternal has in 4 years and how it compares to today’s H5… I don’t think Doom’s MP is even a deal.
> >
> > As I say, 2 and 3 kept their base cause the era was so much different, Live was new, H2 was the first of it’s kind, there weren’t many other competitors, there were less games, etc… times change.
> >
> > I don’t have the citation and I won’t do the numbers, but I’m pretty sure that maybe even less than 1% of the halo players have participated in this topic. You’re free to do the math if you want to.
>
> While correlation does not equal causation, there is a clear correlation between Bungie/343i screwing with the core gameplay to become more like CoD/Titanfall and the decline of the series. A lot of people left after Halo 4 and never came back. Which is why I assume 343i doesn’t want to give sales numbers for Halo 5. If your sales are great, you’ll scream it from the rooftops. Hell, the only reason I came back was because of the Master Chief Collection coming to PC.
>
> As for Doom, multi-player hasn’t really been a big emphasis for the Doom series like Halo has been. That being said, its core gameplay is still praised by its audience. Halo 5’s (and 4’s, and Reach’s) has been divisive since day one. The difference between Doom Eternal’s changes is that the audience feels the changes are natural evolutions that build from the core. The ones who defend 343i’s Halo games don’t argue from this perspective. They know the core was thrown out, but don’t care. That’s where the fundamental breakdown is.

I agree mostly. If Halo was campaign only I think the result would be the same as in Doom, praised by audience.
I think change is good, I also believe 343i hasn’t made the best decisions. I would say the arena shooter core wasn’t thrown out, mostly only in Halo 4 but they then corrected and the game was enjoyable in 4v4 games. If by core you mean the movement, then yes, but Halo MP is far from being movement only.

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> > 2712882632690848;3535:
> > As I say, 2 and 3 kept their base cause the era was so much different, Live was new, H2 was the first of it’s kind, there weren’t many other competitors, there were less games, etc… times change.
>
> Most games that Halo 5 had to compete against are from the same series Halo 3 had to compete against.
>
>
> - Call of Duty 3, 4, WaW, etc. - Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2 - Gears of War - Battlefield: Bad CompanyAnd then games that weren’t directly a first person shooter but were still extremely popular:
>
>
> - Fallout 3 - GTA IV - Crackdown - OblivionEven games that don’t really have a franchise right now to compare to the new IPs that didn’t have a franchise back then:
> - Lost Planet - Left 4 Dead - Fable 2I don’t know where this idea that there just “wasn’t many games” out there came from, it’s not like gaming exploded in 2011 or anything. The only reason people can’t remember those games back then was because Halo was…better than its competitors.

Many people migrated from Halo to CoD throughtout the years, Reach wasn’t as successful as H3, H5 had to overcome H4’s failure, H3 rode in H2’s success, the XBO didn’t sell well, there are so many factors.

Gaming didn’t explode in 2011, but I’m sure there were more gamers and games in 2015 than in 2007, those new games include free to play ones which are what’s hot right now. FPS’s are no longer that much of a hit, I think only CSGO and PUBG have stayed relevant.

Halo indeed was better than it’s competitors, then the competitors stepped their game up and Halo stalled, tried to catch up and didn’t do very well until Halo 5 when Halo and FPS’s were no longet that relevant. CoD also failed until they released Warzone which is, yeah you guessed, a total departure of core CoD, BF also failed.

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> > > > > > > > In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > please not… if that’s the case then I’ll skip this one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You people are so confusing to me. How can you say you liked Halo? Please go put some actual time into Halo 2 and Halo 3 and you will realize not EVERY MODERN SHOOTER NEEDS TO HAVE SPRINT. Why is that hard to understand. COD does it and suddenly its a norm? There are other ways to innovate gameplay. Look at DOOM. It is such a unique FPS gameplay and Halo used to have that. This is frightening.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yet DOOM is so different from the original game, they did it right, Halo also did it right, the thing is this bunch of people wallowing in nostalgia cause Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the most successful games at the moment. H5 was a success, it has maintained player population for many years. These complainers comparing it to H2-3 levels just don’t understand how much of a different era it is.
> > > > >
> > > > > The community complains, yet they’re a small percentage of the players. Their opinion and input is really important, but it’s not be-all, specially if they can’t get over a 15 year old game.
> > > >
> > > > DOOM maintains the core of what made DOOM 1 and 2 good though. Just get in there, shoot all the stuff, and leave. Halo 5 is nearly unrecognizable when put next to Halo 3 or Halo 2. I don’t think anyone is wallowing in nostalgia. Halo 2 and Halo 3 kept their player-base very well. Also, Halo 5 is probably a success because it was the only new Halo game released on the Xbox One and was the only one that actually worked on launch.
> > > >
> > > > Also, Citation Needed for your last paragraph.
> > >
> > > Campaign wise there isn’t much difference in the Halo core. As for the Arena shooter core in MP, it has changed, when it did the most on H4 it wasn’t well taken and a failure, yet it came back in H5 and it keeps core gameplay with new mechanics, which is what Doom does. I have rarely seen complains on Halo’s campaign gameplay, the story is a different thing. In the end, let’s see how much population Doom Eternal has in 4 years and how it compares to today’s H5… I don’t think Doom’s MP is even a deal.
> > >
> > > As I say, 2 and 3 kept their base cause the era was so much different, Live was new, H2 was the first of it’s kind, there weren’t many other competitors, there were less games, etc… times change.
> > >
> > > I don’t have the citation and I won’t do the numbers, but I’m pretty sure that maybe even less than 1% of the halo players have participated in this topic. You’re free to do the math if you want to.
> >
> > While correlation does not equal causation, there is a clear correlation between Bungie/343i screwing with the core gameplay to become more like CoD/Titanfall and the decline of the series. A lot of people left after Halo 4 and never came back. Which is why I assume 343i doesn’t want to give sales numbers for Halo 5. If your sales are great, you’ll scream it from the rooftops. Hell, the only reason I came back was because of the Master Chief Collection coming to PC.
> >
> > As for Doom, multi-player hasn’t really been a big emphasis for the Doom series like Halo has been. That being said, its core gameplay is still praised by its audience. Halo 5’s (and 4’s, and Reach’s) has been divisive since day one. The difference between Doom Eternal’s changes is that the audience feels the changes are natural evolutions that build from the core. The ones who defend 343i’s Halo games don’t argue from this perspective. They know the core was thrown out, but don’t care. That’s where the fundamental breakdown is.
>
> I agree mostly. If Halo was campaign only I think the result would be the same as in Doom, praised by audience.
> I think change is good, I also believe 343i hasn’t made the best decisions. I would say the arena shooter core wasn’t thrown out, mostly only in Halo 4 but they then corrected and the game was enjoyable in 4v4 games. If by core you mean the movement, then yes, but Halo MP is far from being movement only.

But movement for any game is a big, fundamental thing. One of the things that made Halo so popular was that it was easy to learn but difficult to master. That’s why it expanded its audience and each Halo with the culmination of Halo 3. One of the common complaints with Halo 5 is that all of the advanced movement makes it complicated to get into. Then of course they ruin the flow of the map.

That’s why a lot of people seem to say that Halo 5 feels “too competitive/sweaty”. The movement is too complicated compared to the old, so it’s not as easy for people to pick up and play. So casuals are going to feel alienated because it’s not as easy to get into, and competitive players who may like the older Halos won’t like all the advanced movement BS anyway, so both audiences get alienated. There’s a reason why CoD made a reversal on the advanced movement trend and went back to its roots.

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> > > As I say, 2 and 3 kept their base cause the era was so much different, Live was new, H2 was the first of it’s kind, there weren’t many other competitors, there were less games, etc… times change.
> >
> > Most games that Halo 5 had to compete against are from the same series Halo 3 had to compete against.
> >
> >
> > - Call of Duty 3, 4, WaW, etc. - Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2 - Gears of War - Battlefield: Bad CompanyAnd then games that weren’t directly a first person shooter but were still extremely popular:
> >
> >
> > - Fallout 3 - GTA IV - Crackdown - OblivionEven games that don’t really have a franchise right now to compare to the new IPs that didn’t have a franchise back then:
> > - Lost Planet - Left 4 Dead - Fable 2I don’t know where this idea that there just “wasn’t many games” out there came from, it’s not like gaming exploded in 2011 or anything. The only reason people can’t remember those games back then was because Halo was…better than its competitors.
>
> Many people migrated from Halo to CoD throughtout the years, Reach wasn’t as successful as H3, H5 had to overcome H4’s failure, H3 rode in H2’s success, the XBO didn’t sell well, there are so many factors.
>
> Gaming didn’t explode in 2011, but I’m sure there were more gamers and games in 2015 than in 2007, those new games include free to play ones which are what’s hot right now. FPS’s are no longer that much of a hit, I think only CSGO and PUBG have stayed relevant.
>
> Halo indeed was better than it’s competitors, then the competitors stepped their game up and Halo stalled, tried to catch up and didn’t do very well until Halo 5 when Halo and FPS’s were no longet that relevant. CoD also failed, BF also failed.

All you’re really telling me is that Halo isn’t keeping up with being good and is falling behind, which means it should ring true for Halo 5.

You’re able to tell me that the Halo series made bad changes in Reach and Halo 4 and is a “failure” (which Halo 4 was not), but pointing out what people believe are bad changes in Halo 5 are just “wallowing in nostalgia”?

Shouldn’t I be able to hold you to the same standard, and that your current feelings on Halo 5 are comparable to what people want out of some next game?