> 2533274825830455;3440:
>
Pls stop with this illusion lmao On 4v4,team arena whatever the point is valid but Dude, on any btb map no sprint is pain in the -Yoink-. If we rly comeback to classic halo, hopping trough campaing and mp all the time, its no buy for me.
> 2533274981196700;3442:
> Pls stop with this illusion lmao On 4v4,team arena whatever the point is valid but Dude, on any btb map no sprint is pain in the -Yoink-. If we rly comeback to classic halo, hopping trough campaing and mp all the time, its no buy for me.
I have personally never in my life felt that I would need sprint in BTB, or that BTB somehow justifies the existence of sprint.
In some cases, on-foot movement in BTB can definitely be a drag. The design of Blood Gulch and its remakes is pretty bad about this, because the only fast path anywhere without a vehicle is via the teleporter, which is not always an option. However, this is indeed just an issue with the particular design of Blood Gulch, and not a structural issue with the game mechanics. Blood Gulch has this issue because the bases are separated from the edges of the map, there is a large distance from base to base, and no fast safe way between them. The map is also very featurless which creates a sense of monotony when moving around. Valhalla adresses some of these issues by implementing the man cannons that shoot you straight into the middle of the map where there is always combat, and adds a number of features to make traversal safer and less monotonous. Some maps do not have issues at all. On Standoff, for example, the combat is always almost right in front of your base, and on-foot gameplay can be as fast as in 4v4.
There are a number of things that can be done with level design to make even large maps not feel slow. One is simply to design a map in such a way that the player is never too far from combat, as is done on Standoff. Another is to make the map movement feel more varied by avoid huge empty fields or long straight paths. Then last are a number of ways to speed up the actual movement, which in Halo are teleporters, man cannons, and Mongooses. Connecting parts of the map with teleporters can essentially make the movement arbitrarily fast. Traditional man cannons are a bit more restricted in where they can be placed, but can still be used creativity to connect parts of the map. Finally, lots of Mongooses with fast spawn timers is always an option. Some modification of the despawn rate might be needed to not litter the map with used Mongooses, but it is possible to ensure that there is always at least one Mongoose at the base ready to take the player where they want to be.
But before we go and make all of our BTB maps super fast, I want to say that BTB should always be slower paced than 4v4. With double the number of players, you simply cannot have players getting back to combat in the same amount of time as you would in 4v4, because the game would become more prone to stalemates. Avalanche is not the best designed BTB map, but it exemplifies this fact because the tunnel entrances are already prone to stalemates where players are just constantly dying and then running back to defend the entrance. It can take a number of seconds to run back from spawn to the entrance, but making the journey take even less time would create a completely intolerable situation.
For campaign, itās the same deal as for BTB: level design determines pacing, not maximum movement speed. Here of course Mongooses are traded for vehicle sections and teleporters and man cannons for enemy encounter placement. Furthermore, in campaign modulating the pacing by having sections with less action or no action can be extremely valuable for the atmosphere of the level. Halo CE wouldnāt feel like a guerilla campaign on a deserted alien world if there was just a Covenant army behind every corner. New Alexandria in Reach uses slow sections between the buildings for emotional impact as the player watches the world being destroyed around them, just to give a few examples. Games that donāt know to pace their story mode feel very shallow.
> 2533274981196700;3442:
> > 2533274825830455;3440:
> >
>
> Pls stop with this illusion lmao On 4v4,team arena whatever the point is valid but Dude, on any btb map no sprint is pain in the -Yoink-. If we rly comeback to classic halo, hopping trough campaing and mp all the time, its no buy for me.
Btb maps always have vehicles, and in some cases they have teleporters and shortcuts and obviously Halo 3 introduced man cannons.
The spartan abilities (ground pound, charge, thrusters, stabilizers) was just too much for me in halo 5. Iād love to see the return of equipment or armor abilities to replace the spartan abilities. Sprint is kinda half and half. Itās good for getting places, but I feel it changes the gameplay formula somewhat. Overall Iām fine with sprint. Ground pound did bring some really fun arena events, like the ground pound arena. Maybe for custom games you could turn on these options, but for regular multiplayer and campaign Iād like to see more classic movement (Iād be fine with sprint in those). And ADS. That feels way to modern for me. Sure the hip fire was still there quite a bit in 5, but every gun having ADS? I didnāt like that much. It was cool to me until I discovered that instead of flinching, the game booted you out of ADS and that was really annoying. If there was an option in settings to either flinch or exit ADS when taking damage, I would have loved 5ās ADS so much more. If this feature is kept in Infinite, I hope that they make that setting possible, and give their own spin to the āflinchā mechanic (i.e. the hologram sight wavers and gets distorted and causes the reticle to briefly disappear). If they gave ADS itās halo spin, Iād love it.
> 2535433024916972;3445:
> The spartan abilities (ground pound, charge, thrusters, stabilizers) was just too much for me in halo 5. Iād love to see the return of equipment or armor abilities to replace the spartan abilities. Sprint is kinda half and half. Itās good for getting places, but I feel it changes the gameplay formula somewhat. Overall Iām fine with sprint. Ground pound did bring some really fun arena events, like the ground pound arena. Maybe for custom games you could turn on these options, but for regular multiplayer and campaign Iād like to see more classic movement (Iād be fine with sprint in those). And ADS. That feels way to modern for me. Sure the hip fire was still there quite a bit in 5, but every gun having ADS? I didnāt like that much. It was cool to me until I discovered that instead of flinching, the game booted you out of ADS and that was really annoying. If there was an option in settings to either flinch or exit ADS when taking damage, I would have loved 5ās ADS so much more. If this feature is kept in Infinite, I hope that they make that setting possible, and give their own spin to the āflinchā mechanic (i.e. the hologram sight wavers and gets distorted and causes the reticle to briefly disappear). If they gave ADS itās halo spin, Iād love it.
Every halo game besides halo 4 kicked you out of the scope or ADS or whatever. Itās just that in halo 5 thereās a different animation instead of the basic zoom. But yeah being booted out of ADS wasnāt new to H5.
Yes and dual wielding and Iām neutral on sprinting it wouldnt bother me if they kept it or got rid of it
People that think the anti-sprint crowd just want H3 or just sluggish play make me laugh. I want the game to be quick and fluid (not quake / doom levels or even sprint speed fast, but fast), just for the answer to not be sprint. Up the base movement speed, lower the strafe acceleration for faster change in directions and up the field of view, then add a multitude of movement options on the map in the form of items, weapons and map features.
Allow movement AND combat at all times, more execution (not a button press like sprint or clamber) and for the creativity in the game to come from the playspace, not off spawn.
We could see more movement in weapons like the glimpse we got with the bruteshot, or effects like the slow on CE plasma rifle that add a dimension to the game. All combat in 5 requires the player to not be sprinting and when you arenāt sprinting in 5 you are a snail, all momentum is just in a forward direction except for thruster. Thruster would be better suited as a pick-up, make it stronger like evade. With such compact maps that Halo is known for in 4v4 2 modes of speed are not needed, just up the BMS. For BTB stop making expansive and open maps with no cover and youāll be fine.
More verticality and asymmetrical maps would make the game better as they allow for more gameplay variety if done right, with the current iteration of mechanics, sprint makes the game cat and mouse and clamber makes height advantage much less valuable. I just canāt fathom the desire to push for sprint when all attempts at balancing it into Halo have not properly worked and there are other options which would work better with Halo gameplay that would also alleviate the sluggishness, which seems to be the main point of criticism.
If the anti-sprint crowd can address sluggishness then when will the sprint crowd address the cat and mouse gameplay that sprint brings on account of the fast speed not allowing combat, or that it is only fast in 1 direction, or that aside from thruster (and ground pound i suppose) the movement is hardly ever used aggressively and mainly as an escape. Things that differ it from the more aggressive and punishable Halo gameplay, that do not mesh well with higher killtimes than the instant-kill games that have sprint or the limits it places on combat.
What is so special about sprint that alternate methods would not solve? If sluggishness is the most critical aspect then why veer the combat into a different direction just to accommodate for 1 mechanic? When other solutions are available.
> 2533274836395701;3448:
> lower the strafe acceleration for faster change in directions
Porbably wanted to say the opposite. You know, the bigger your acceleration, the faster you reach top speed.
<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
> 2535449076192416;1:
> In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
>
> EDIT: Wow, I didnāt expect such diverse opinions on this subject. The Halo community really is split in half. Iām sorry you have to deal with us, 343 
>
> EDIT: 1100 comments. __What have I done?__FINAL EDIT: Iām just going to stop counting at this point. The level of which this thread has grown is simply ridiculous.
>
> POINTLESS EDIT: Hey, 117 likes. Good for me.
Iāll tell you whatās coming back my elbow. And when my elbow hits you in the face real hard it means SHUT UP !!!
> 2533274825830455;3449:
> > 2533274836395701;3448:
> > lower the strafe acceleration for faster change in directions
>
> Porbably wanted to say the opposite. You know, the bigger your acceleration, the faster you reach top speed.
I meant lower time to reach peak velocity but sometimes i type something out and donāt catch it on the re-read. Cheers i wouldnāt of noticed.
Checking back in here, I think the argument regarding sprint aiding in bringing new fans is silly at best. I first played Halo as a really, really young lilā girl (around three years old!) and I understood the base mechanics just fine due to itās simplicity; two sticks to move and look, few face buttons to jump and punch, and finally the triggers to shoot and toss grenades. It was very simple, easy to understand and very efficient!
Thatās not to say there isnāt merit to advanced mobility, no doubt a lot of people find it really funāthe problem is that it doesnāt adhere to Haloās single most defining innovation, which was (in a sense) itās simplicity. Letās go over some of Halo CEās innovations: Regenerating shields, smaller yet distinct sandbox, two weapon cap and lastly, on the fly melee attacks. Interestingly enough every single innovation gave Halo an edge in due part because of itās simplicity, my mother could pick up a controller and grasp the basics of Halo 1 - 3, meanwhile Halo 5 in all honestly starts to make me feel like an old grandma having trouble simply moving her character.
That was Haloās core, and I feel that should remain the core of the franchise; thatās why Haloās most well known and beloved innovations almost never bloated the sandbox or the base gameplay, because historically that has remained similar to the rather simplistic arena shooter that started it all. All thatās to say that even without expanding the base movement, you can innovate the seriesājust look back to previous titles! Halo 2 was the closest to any base movement modifications, with hijacking which was built nicely into Halo 2ās simple core gameplayāone hit of the X button (which is already the main action button) and you hop on and jack the enemy vehicle! Simple, easy to understand and most importantly, it fixed a major hole in Halo CEās combat loop, with how powerless you felt against vehicles on foot.
Halo 3 expanded on that idea, adding a number of one time use powerups you could deploy at a momentās notice to offer quick get out of jail free cards in many circumstances; with a few of these pieces of equipment really complementing Haloās sandbox, with others mostly just getting in the wayā¦ nice thing is, you could easily remove equipmentāit wasnāt forced upon the player if they really, really disliked a certain piece of equipment, or the whole concept entirely! Halo 3 was very modular, which likely assisted in itās amazing replay value.
TheCelticDragon said: People that think the anti-sprint crowd just want H3 or just sluggish play make me laugh. I want the game to be quick and fluid (not quake / doom levels or even sprint speed fast, but fast), just for the answer to not be sprint. Up the base movement speed, lower the strafe acceleration for faster change in directions and up the field of view, then add a multitude of movement options on the map in the form of items, weapons and map features.
The reason that I prefer classic movement is quite simple: Map design. To balance out the fact that players donāt like maps that feel small and at the same time 343 wants to add sprint, 343 decides to make maps bigger. However, this makes weapons unqualified for both faster targets and the fact that they are often farther away. So 343 adds LUDICROUS bullet magnetism. However, this makes weapons too forgiving, so 343 decides to add smart link: a feature that blocks much of the players view during aiming. This is not enough however, so 343 decides to add more recoil to most weapons. This results in some weapons giving far too much kick to allow constant headshots. So 343 increase damage on many weapons. Which makes the sandbox messy and unbalanced, but 343 decides to leave it alone. Meanwhile at the Bat-Cave, 343 decides to add Spartan Abilities, which they quite like. They then add Hover, Charge, Slam, and Dash to the list. They decide to add smart link to hover to allow for airborne players to have decent aim. But they then find out that this allows for map breaching to unintended places. So 343 decides to add 50 different air vehicle variants to account for every single situation to make sure that players have a reason not to do it. This gives them the REQ system idea, which gives unfair pay-to-win mechanics. They then add a billion variants for everything, which forces them to change the map, which forces them to change weapons, which forces them to change movement, which creates the disaster known as Halo 5. Get the drift?
(By the way, I respect all opinions, Iām just giving my own. Can someone tell me how to cut out a specific part of a comment rather then copy it? I donāt know how and help would be appreciated.) 
My vote is HALO 4 / 5 Control system
> 2535425992673755;3406:
> What is aim down sight ? Aiming in Halo 5 is the the same as Halo 3, right? Only the scope is different.
>
> I hope they bring Halo 5 scope modelsā¦ Because, itās more practical on close range weapons, and I like the style of them. Their design are very cool
It isnāt, classic Halo never had scopes on automatic weapons. Also Hi changes bullet spread, range, magnetism and recoil of all weapons based on if youāre zoomed in or even crouching with the BR (seems to be gone after the weapon balancing update, but it was in the game). The only difference between H5 and modern shooters is that your movement speed isnāt reduced while aiming.
In OG Halo the only difference when zoomed was the RRR, and Hi better brings this system back regardless of animation style. Making automatics more useful is one thing, but in the current state theyāre just too powerful imho!
Not to mention that it covers your vision a lot more and the animation takes longer - which is ironic to have in the game that wanted to speed things up.
It looked kinda cool though. Wouldnāt mind it in campaign as long as it works like in classic Halo and as long as we arenāt getting normal iron sights. Iām a bit sick and tired of putting identical iron sights to my face in every game frankly.
> 2533274826349616;3435:
> Enhanced Mobility is NOT a Lie in 90 Seconds - YouTube
>
> Iāll give him credit thatās a very well made video. Iāll be honest I still personally prefer classic movement, but he does make some very good arguments. Iām definitely not opposed to a hybrid of gameplay between something like Halo 5 and Halo 2.
Are those good arguments though?^^ā The guy managed to underline the nuance of AMM in H5 better than anyone else, but when it came to counter the arguments from the original 90 seconds vid he basically reduced his points to the fact that you can easily break map geometry to your advantage. Which is exactly the reason why we donāt like it! Also all his advanced movement techniques are limited to forward momentum and breaking animation sequences - which again, we know and itās why we donāt like it! XD
Really well made video though! I believe I understand the pro AMM crowd a bit better now, but I also think he missed the pro OG movement mechanics points altogether as well.
> 2535471197967888;3454:
> My vote is HALO 4 / 5 Control system
Interesting considering how both games control very differently. A problem Iāve noticed with the modern Halo titles are how wildly different they are, none of them are coherent because they only really cared about following trends in the industry. When Halo 4 launched, CoD was the biggest name in the industry, while advanced mobility started to creep into every shooter by the time Halo 5 was in development.
> 2535410846321679;3456:
> > 2535471197967888;3454:
> > My vote is HALO 4 / 5 Control system
>
> Interesting considering how both games control very differently. A problem Iāve noticed with the modern Halo titles are how wildly different they are, none of them are coherent because they only really cared about following trends in the industry. When Halo 4 launched, CoD was the biggest name in the industry, while advanced mobility started to creep into every shooter by the time Halo 5 was in development.
Itās fun to look at Halo 5 in the context of Call of Duty Advanced Warfare, which came out a year prior to itās release. COD:AW shares 7 of itās 8 mechanics with Halo 5. Halo 5 just lets you access all of them at once (though the basic abilities are 1 to 1) and has a higher TTK. Thatās pretty much it.
> 2535410846321679;3456:
> > 2535471197967888;3454:
> > My vote is HALO 4 / 5 Control system
>
> Interesting considering how both games control very differently. A problem Iāve noticed with the modern Halo titles are how wildly different they are, none of them are coherent because they only really cared about following trends in the industry. When Halo 4 launched, CoD was the biggest name in the industry, while advanced mobility started to creep into every shooter by the time Halo 5 was in development.
Very good point, Halo has been suffering with an identity crisis for a while. 343 acknowledged in one of their recent vidocs that Halo needs to be more than an amalgamation of āwhatās hotā in the industry. Iām paraphrasing, but something to that effect.
> 2533274795098161;3455:
> It isnāt, classic Halo never had scopes on automatic weapons.
The Pistol in Combat Evolved is an automatic weapon in-game.
> 2533274964556797;3459:
> > 2533274795098161;3455:
> > It isnāt, classic Halo never had scopes on automatic weapons.
>
> The Pistol in Combat Evolved is an automatic weapon in-game.
I thought it was a SEMI-automatic, like the DMR, but maybe Iām wrong.
> 2535438636443468;3460:
> > 2533274964556797;3459:
> > > 2533274795098161;3455:
> > > It isnāt, classic Halo never had scopes on automatic weapons.
> >
> > The Pistol in Combat Evolved is an automatic weapon in-game.
>
> I thought it was a SEMI-automatic, like the DMR, but maybe Iām wrong.
No, you can hold down the trigger and itāll keep firing. This is a completely useless mode since it decreases accuracy and one can shoot equally fast by spamming the trigger with no accuracy penalty. Basically, the post is technically correct in the most meaningless kind of way.