The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > There’s a variation in base speed on classic halo too. It’s called speed boost and it was interesting because it was a power-up you could pick up on a map; it took skill to control.
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> Which Halo? I don’t remember that powerup (I only remember Overshield and Active Camo), but on Halopedia I’m only finding it as being in Halo 4, Halo 5, and Halo 2 Anniversary. Which, barring the latter, are games that have Sprint as a base function already (which is odd).
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> > Is really a requirement in a halo game though?
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> At this point in Gaming Evolution, I would say yes. Halo has enough that sets it aside (and with this new engine, possibly ahead) of other shooters, there’s no wrong or harm in including what is now a core function. In that it’s included in almost every major game today (the vast majority), it’s also quite inaccurate to label it as a “gimmick”. Thruster Packs - while I enjoy them greatly - are more of a gimmick than sprint. As I mentioned earlier, sprint is as common and core a control function as joystick layout.
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> > If you need sprint to get out of a situation, it sounds like you put yourself into a bad situation and you’re wanting a “get out of jail free” card.
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> Sometimes that what it is, yes. Other times I’ve used it to ambush other players. Then again, there are times that I use sprint just to close a gap a little quicker, then drop back down to standard speed to clear the room. It has a few applications beyond running away.
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> > Let me add in at the end here that I intend no animosity in my statements here. I just want to have a discussion and since text is hard to convey emotion it’s easier to add in a note letting you no I don’t intend any insults or disrespect.
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> No worries! I’ve actually been quite calm throughout this entire thread, which I tried to convey in the video that I made. It’s a small thing to me, but something to fill the time until we get info on Halo Infinite. Though I’m also probably going to work on making a “Classic” game mode.

Well it appears I remember incorrectly about speed boost, it’s been a while and I must’ve confused it with later halos. My sincere apologies there, I’ll go back and correct the post, stating that isn’t the case. That being said, I still think speed boost is a better option for providing increased speed. I’ll think it’s especially great because its not a base mechanic so you can implement it in a variety of ways without introducing a jarring mechanic into basic game play. Plus you add the benefit of putting a power up on a map that needs to be controlled.

I completely disagree that it isn’t a gimmick. Just because it’s used in a majority of games doesn’t make it not a gimmick. You could very easily increase speed without introducing a mechanic that forces a Halo player to lower their weapon. The sprint visuals are just something that a bunch of developers jumped on, along with all of the other advanced movement mechanics. Note that I think it works well in some games, it just isn’t pleasant in Halo and I think it breaks the experience (not completely to be fair, you can see that I did have fun in h5 if you look at my service record).

I recognize that sprint does appear to have additional uses, however, I think all the uses you mentioned could be negated by maps designed for base movement speed. You can sneak up on people and close gaps intelligently on maps designed for their BMS without needing a temporary speed boost that leaves you defenseless.

On the note about a majority of games having it again,that doesn’t mean it should be included in Halo, on the contrary, I think removing would be a way to distinguish Halo from other games. I would prefer that 343 make changes to the gameplay map pickups or something similar. Things that can drastically change the game play and make it new while leaving the base mechanics the same. This allows you to experiment with a variety of new things without breaking the base game. By making mechanics like sprint base mechanics, you change the game play in a way that isn’t easily fixed where by adding things to the environment unpleasant things can be easily removed.

Finally, I think 343 implemented sprint in the least intrusive way possible, to their credit. I just don’t think it fits in Halo. While I enjoyed h5, replayability for me is low due to sprint and the other advanced movement mechanics making basic gameplay overly complicated; there’s no ‘chill’ in halo 5 imo.

If I’ve missed something here or my text is weird somewhere in the message, I apologise. I’m on my phone and the text is acting up. On a side note, what do you think of the other mechanics? I too like thrusters, I just don’t think they should be a base mechanic, ground poind doesn’t really belong, and spartan charge is an abomination.

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When people only discuss the merit of Spartan Abilities in terms of balancing or competitiveness, we’ve tossed the only thing that matters in Halo out the window, which is whether or not the game is addicting or has any lasting appeal.

I haven’t played Halo 5 lately. I completed the REQ system for the most part, and I just don’t desire to experience any parts of the game again outside sometimes Forge. It’s just so difficult to control compared to the other Halos. Meanwhile I’ve logged over a thousand hours into Halo Reach (I played it for the past 2 days, even) and it is my second most-played Halo game to date. The game is not ‘competitive’ or ‘balanced’ in the slightest. The map selection is garbage, there is no ranking system, jetpack and sprint are insane, but the game is simply easier to control on every front. You have ONE button for every. single. armor ability.

Having simple controls is so much better for casual play AND competitive play. It’s better than going into Halo 5 and knowing just how many Spartan Abilities you have to chain together for optimal movement. When you contest the flag you can’t just sprint, you gotta boost slide jump your way there. You can’t just crouch jump ledges, you gotta stabilize jump boost into clamber. You want to save yourself from ledges you gotta jump thrust + ground pound delay thrust recharge that -Yoink-.

Halo Infinite needs to be more than just a competitive game, it needs to be fun and casual. It needs to be steady and easy to control at both levels so that both sides can foster an attachment with the game.

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> Beyond those two games, sprint is a common feature. And this is the point; it is expected in modern gaming. I realize you of the opposition expect more of an argument, but there it is. It’s as simple a reason and expectation as vehicles being accessible in Halo, or having the left stick for movement and the right stick for aiming and camera control (Reversed if Southpaw). That is how gaming has evolved into the modern era - across many types of games, as demonstrated - and it’s not something that’s likely to go away any time soon.

It’s not a good reason, because it’s just conjecture. It’s typical subjective generalization: “I expect sprint in games, a lot of games have sprint, therefore everyone must expect sprint in games”. However, there is no actual data to support the that sprint really is something gamers expect, and not just something developers keep putting in because that’s what everybody else is doing.

When you say that CS. GO has this, and Overwatch has that, it just comes off as desperately trying to deny that yes, there are indeed successful shooters out there that do not have sprint as a base ability. It doesn’t matter that Overwatch is not at all a game like Halo, because nobody claimed it to be, because that’s not relevant to the argument that there are highly successful games that don’t have sprint as a base ability. It doesn’t matter that in CS: GO you get a minor speed advantage by taking the knife in hand instead of a weapon, because that’s not sprint.

The reason these games are brought up all the time is that they are evidence against the claim that gamers expect sprint. Even if we disregard this evidence, we are still left with the fact that your claim is completely fictional. It’s not based on any hard data. It’s just something keep repeating because it sounds good, and makes them think they have the backing of the majority. It’s the exact same reason people who oppose sprint like to flaunt the fact that Halo has become less popular since the introduction of it. It’s not a credible argument. It doesn’t sound credible unless you’re already biased in favor of it.

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> > > I just want one person to give me a legitimate argument as to why Sprint is beneficial to halo. One that doesn’t include, I just want to “feel like a spartan” or “I like to run faster”. The latter of which has been proved false on many occasions.
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> > Also with the “I like to run faster”, I don’t think you can quite prove that “false”, as it’s a personal preference. There are times in these games that I do like to run faster to cover ground; I don’t like to run that fast all the time.
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> With respect to this specific issue, the main problem with increasing BMS as an alternative is that players will not want to run at that increased pace all the time. For many it would even get nauseating, as it would be difficult to control the faster movement 100% of the time.

At exactly what level does that happen?
Where’s the line on which it gets difficult to controll your character? At what point does it get nauseating? When does players not want to run full speed all the time?

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I hope they return to classic gameplay which was amazing and uniqe.H4 was garbage and H5 was avarge in terms of multiplayer.Bring back that amazing classic gameplay 343.I believe in you.

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> In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!

I’m a really old Halo fan. Both in playing the game and years on the planet (I’m over half a century in)

I really enjoyed Halo CE to 3, but I do not adore or want the classic gameplay back. I really think the gameplay in Halo 5 was excellent. My criticism of Halo 5 was that we lost too much along the way and added things that were not needed imo.

We lost playable elites, split screen, customisation was a joke, blood splatters are practically non existent, the spartans were too shiney, btb was a tacked on after thought, they added rng loot style req packs, nothing is unlocked through game play (except achillies) and the campaign was a joke.

I could go on adding what the community disliked and liked. I like what we see of the slipspace engine, but don’t want to go back to just the old classic gameplay. I can easily put Halo 3 into my 360 if I want that, and after playing Halo 5 it’s like you’re treading water, it’s so slow, it feels as old as I am.

Combat needs to evolve.

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> > > > > > To be honest, I like classic Halo mechanics but would probably not enjoy them as much nowadays.
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> > > > > > Sprint has become an essential component of most FPS games and Halo is not an exception. Also, sprint in Halo 5 was good because it stops shield recovery as long as you sprint thus not allowing players to run away from fights without a penalty.
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> > > > > > What I think sprint affected negatively in Halo is map design as it is clear that maps in Halo 5 are more norrow with less open areas compared to previous games without sprint.
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> > > > > > Other spartan abilities, imo, should not be in future Halo games, ESPECIALLY SPARTAN CHARGE, as they alter the use of movements unique to Halo, such as crouch jumping which has less use in Halo 5 than in previous Halo games due to clamber.
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> > > > > What about Counter-Strike and Overwatch, two of the most popular FPS games for eSports? I’d add Rainbow Six: Siege since sprint is rarely used competitively, but sprint is a part of the game. As for overall popularity, Crossfire (a free to play CS clone) is up there due to the Chinese and Korean market. Hell, even the Doom remake did pretty well, considering the idea of Doom 4 being dead for almost a decade and multiplayer being messed up. I’m not sure about Quake, but people seem to still be interested judging off of Bethesda’s admittedly cringey E3 Conference.
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> > > > > I’d argue most people don’t really care about sprint, as long as the game makes sense with or without it.
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> > > > Honestly I don’t think you can compare Halo to games like Overwatch or Counter-Strike. They are very different game types. Also Halo has the disadvantage of being a longstanding franchise with many games under its belt so it has expectations and has to keep innovating in order to keep the franchise fresh are relevant to the modern market.
> > > > I’d argue that generally people expect a form or sprint in most FPS games that are non arena shooters.
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> > 1- Halo and CSGO cannot really be compared for very simple reasons.
> > -Halo has many games types: Warzone, infection, slayer, BTB, Capture the flag as well as many custom games and campaign. CSGO only has 1. Its easier so have simpler mechanics for a simpler game. Also CSGO has very different gun play than Halo where one can die very quickly and so rewards slower and more tactical gameplay while the other is supposed more about outmanoeuvring the opponent and is generally more forgiving. CSGO is also a franchise that never changes and doesn’t need to as it is a very competitive game while Halo makes slight changes every game and keep updating and improving their formula. Ultimately Halo and CSGO are games that are made with different goals and play in mind and this is why I think it would be inaccurate to claim one’s feature is another’s failure.
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> > 2- Also I never claimed Halo NEEDED sprint, that’s a quote from Stranger302 not me. All I said was that generally players nowadays expect a form sprint for FPS games, but no one is going to have an aneurysm if the game doesn’t (unless it was already a well established mechanic of a prequel game).
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> > 3- I agree that Overwatch is not quite arena style but still has strong vibes of such a genre. The game also doesn’t require sprint as the maps aren’t large enough to need it as well as the fact that several heroes have extra movement options to move around the battlefield faster (Soldier 76 Sprint XD)
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> - Yes they are both FPS and they for sure have differences I agree, but that wasn’t what was being debated. The debate was is sprint an and essential mechanic for FPS, that’s it. We’re not talking about charaters, other game mechanics, Graphics, different modes of play, control layouts, map layouts, weapons etc. etc. Just the sprint mechanic in FPS. No more, no less. I said it’s not and gave examples why. - Ok my mistake. I guess people do… I don’t fully agree on that, but that’s hard to prove either way, so we’ll just leave that. - How much have you played Overwatch!!! LoL I think they have quite a few maps that are pretty big. So I guess wewe’ agree disagree there. Yes some hero’s have extra movement options like Soldier 76 and Sombra both have a sprint animation. Then there are charaters like Lucio and Brigitta who increase there (and people around them) base movement speed. I can tell you right now because I play a lot of Overwatch most people like that better because their gun is always up, unlike the other two.

  1. Like I said, my point about Sprint is not that it is needed in FPS games as we have many games which do not make use of it. What I was trying to convey was that as games became more mainstream several mechanics in games have also become more popular one such being Sprint. Almost all 1st or 3rd person games which come out now have some form of Sprint; hence its become an expected yet non-essential feature of games nowadays. The reason for this has to do with immersion and player freedom, people like when they feel that they have better control of their character, even Clamber is feature found in many games nowadays. Of course I cannot truly prove any of this, but that’s just what I think.
  2. No I have played Overwatch but I follow several Youtubers that do and I am familiar with most Characters. Overwatch is a very different game compared to Halo. Firstly it is a class based game which focuses on unique character powers and abilities unlike Halo. Then there is the fact that it just plays differently and is much more arena style than current Halo. Finally many characters do have advanced movement options such as Tracer, Winston, Genji, Fara, Soldier 76 etc… It may not take the form of Sprint, but these are abilities that allow them to traverse the map easier/faster. Overwatch is not considered a Classic style of play.

I find it curious that no new FPS games have come out in recent years with the same movement options as Halo 3 and were popular. The closest we get is Doom and even that game has double jump and clamber.

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> 1. Like I said, my point about Sprint is not that it is needed in FPS games as we have many games which do not make use of it. What I was trying to convey was that as games became more mainstream several mechanics in games have also become more popular one such being Sprint. Almost all 1st or 3rd person games which come out now have some form of Sprint; hence its become an expected yet non-essential feature of games nowadays. The reason for this has to do with immersion and player freedom.

Okay then. Immersion gets thrown around a lot right now, like game pacing was, I think it’s time for some definement / elaboration / clarification regarding that.

That and “player freedom”.

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> > Did we move like snails in Halo 4 and 5 when not using sprint?
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> Increasing the base movement speed will only get you so far, they don’t need the thruster boost, but sprinting, and ads is a must, maybe vaulting but thats debatable . You’ve got to also keep in mind now since this is going on pc as well and you xbox only guys are not the only one that will get this game in your hands. I am aware that pc halo dudes like ninja and dr disrespect have been asking for classic stuff back and that’s where the classic playlist come in , your movement does not need to be the default, moving to pc is a big move and a lot of pc people who play fps feel as if things like sprint and ads, maybe vaulting should be in every fps. Ive been on pc for years now and if I was 343 I would be trying to get a very large chunk of pc people to play cause that’s more money which in turn will equal= better games. to do that they do not just need to focus only on your side of the community which is my worry and feeling i get from their teaser…just because you guys have tissue papers near you and tears always coming from your eyes.
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> Adding in permanent classic playlist while not having that movement default would please both sides of the fanbase, but also doing extra things like giving us on pc a very advanced version of forge, fallout/ elder scrolls creation engine level of forge while having a good forge on console as well and letting us share our creations on pc with you guys on console will no doubt increase the longevity of this game by a lot. Add in dedicated servers at launch, private matches, great customization options, no loot boxes but reach style customization they could add in microtransactions to that as well but like I said no rng loot boxes let us have the option to buy armors with real money that can be bought with credits while also having armor you cant buy with credits example being the ones you unlock through challenges In multiplayer , campaign, and achievements., great forge, great gameplay, great story, frequent updates/bug fixes and you have a game on your hands that will last a good long while. What im suggesting is not forcing anything on anyone except when it comes to campaign because I don’t want classic movement in campaign I already deal with that disgusting chief armor when nothing was wrong with the design of his halo 4 and 5 one… when it comes to multiplayer have the options, classic for those that want it and the default movement with sprint for those that do not I just hope and have been hoping for a while that they have non halo games in the works , maybe this slip space engine and them deciding to make games for pc as well as xbox is a sign of that being possible? I hope so

That is a lot of non-answer for a short question.

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> Probably, but we’re pretty much out of options at this point for evolving Halo while still keeping it familiar. I mean, there’s also the option of adding a speed boost power-up, but that seems overpowered if you really think about it.

I think the issue is that people are staring themselves blind on movement mechanics and movement related features to “evolve” Halo, perhaps because “other games are doing it”?

There’s plenty of unexplored possabilities in the maps ( interaction, hazards and movement assets both individually and combined with each other ), weapons ( firing modes, overcharge modes, modular weapons, new grenade types ), health, shields and power ups ( Biofoam needed to regenerate health, power ups granting resistances to specific damage types, power ups increasing damage for a specific damage type ), vehicles ( new vehicles both entirely new and re-appearing ones from Reach to Wars, explore vehicle weaknesses more, vehicle abilities outside of their weapons, passenger abilities ), misc things ( Weapon trading, ammo sharing, seat trading, squad commands for NPCs of all kinds not just NPCs in your preprogrammed squad ), Customs ( Combining game modes like CTF and Neutral assault in an Invasionesque way, bringing back old modes like Headhunter, Juggernaught, ViP and so forth ) Firefight ( Forgeable Firefight maps, Alternative objects, AI adapting to player tactics and behaviours, “shops” to purchase equipment and reinforcement in ), Campaign ( Optional Side missions which affect later missions in some way, Mission hi-jacking as in joining on the enemy side and playing against the main player having access to the commands and whatnot ).
I’m sure this doesn’t sound like Halo to you, because it’s extremely condensed ideas / suggestions, built on how I’d imagine they’d work, and this “short” text does not convey that very well.

Edit: Wouldn’t there have to be some form of way to define what makes Halo familiar or not based on what’s implemented? For some stuff at least.

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> > Based on the forums I’ve visited these are the options different people seem to want:
> > -Pure Classic Halo 3 style
> > -Classic style + Thrusters
> > -Sprint, Slide, Clamber
> > -All Spartan Abilities except Ground Pound and Spartan Charge
> > -Pure Advanced Movement Halo 5 style
> > Not many seem to be thinking about armour abilities. I think its still a sour memory for a lot of people with many preferring the new Spartan Abilities over them.
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> Probably, but we’re pretty much out of options at this point for evolving Halo while still keeping it familiar. I mean, there’s also the option of adding a speed boost power-up, but that seems overpowered if you really think about it. Everyone seems to be talking about split playlists now as well, which we’ve seen suggested a couple of times since Reach.
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> Right now, in my opinion, Halo 5’s multiplayer is just some Arena Shooter with Halo slapped onto the title. It’s too chaotic in its battles and the maps are pretty enclosed and maze-like compared to older Halo games to really be called Halo. Sure there are still regenerative shields and niche weapon sets for different purposes, but those are just quality of life changes for Arena Shooters to work on consoles. I’m not going to talk about the campaign, the artstyle, or Warzone since those are completely different topics, but Arena doesn’t feel like Halo at all apart from having essential Arena Shooter qualities such as equal starts and map control.
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> EDIT: To be honest, I just wish someone working on gameplay or multiplayer at 343 would read all these “Sprint, No Sprint”, “Classic Gameplay, New Gameplay” threads in their entirety, so we’re not just stuck on several binary choices most people make this debate out to be. This debate is so much more complicated than “include sprint” or “remove sprint” since we’re already three games and countless competitive playlists deep in debating sprint, all with varying degrees of its implementation.

To be honest this debate will never end. Nothing anyone says here will change anyone’s mind. It ends up being arguing for the sake of arguing, and ultimately it will be up to 343 to decide what to do not us. I am simply of all these Sprint threads and debates that ultimately never reach a conclusion and end with people getting frustrated and giving up. This is why I never engaged in this kind of topic until now.
The reason why this will never end is because at the end of the day its a preference choice regarding style of play. Some people like the Sprint mechanic and others don’t. Its that simple. It’s important to remember that due to Halo’s long life the fans of the past will not necessarily enjoy the same things as the fans of today when one considers the different gaming market of the two.
I believe 343 is creative enough to come up with something if they try, whether fans will accept it however is another matter.

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> To be honest this debate will never end. Nothing anyone says here will change anyone’s mind. It ends up being arguing for the sake of arguing, and ultimately it will be up to 343 to decide what to do not us.

Agreed, which is why the three or four replies that I’m working on will most likely be the last ones.

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> > To be honest this debate will never end. Nothing anyone says here will change anyone’s mind. It ends up being arguing for the sake of arguing, and ultimately it will be up to 343 to decide what to do not us.
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> Agreed, which is why the three or four replies that I’m working on will most likely be the last ones.

Kinda repititious though, unfortunately… Because after you do peace out the same handful of people will stick around, just like in the sprint thread, just to slam any pro sprint opinions like yours anyway they can.

The same couple of people will continue to skew the issue by pretending that no one has presented good reasons to keep sprint in Halo, when the reality is that you and so many others in these forums are just more responsible about posting your ideas; rather than just sticking around forever just to fight everyone who disagrees with you on the issue.

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I would want sprint to be kept in the next Halo, I like to have the feeling of being more mobile.

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> Kinda repititious though, unfortunately… Because after you do peace out the same handful of people will stick around, just like in the sprint thread, just to slam any pro sprint opinions like yours anyway they can.
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> The same couple of people will continue to skew the issue by pretending that no one has presented good reasons to keep sprint in Halo, when the reality is that you and so many others in these forums are just more responsible about posting your ideas; rather than just sticking around forever just to fight everyone who disagrees with you on the issue.

It certainly doesn’t help that pro-sprinters in general seem to cherrypick certain posts to reply to while avoiding the ones that could potentially disprove their argument. Just a trend I’ve noticed while reading through this thread.

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It seems that the need for halo to ‘evolve’, how jarring it would feel if it was to renege on what was in 4 or 5 and keeping up with ‘modern trends’ are the main defence i have seen for keeping advanced movement for Infinite…so i’ll posit this.

In 2017 and 2018 (and part of 2016) we have seen what some have called a revival or upswing in gaming, from a weaker period of releases in 2013-2016. Most of the critically and commercially successful games released these years and what seems to be 2019 too, that were part of an already existing franchise, have found their success by returning to what made the games great in the first place or appealing to old fandom. Most of these games are not pure nostalgia grabs either, many have managed to push the technology and experience to further heights while retaining the ‘feel’.

  • Crash remaster
  • Spyro remaster
  • Mario odyssey
  • Resident evil 2 re-imagining
  • Resident evil 7
  • Breath of the wild
  • Smash ultimate
  • Super mario party
  • CoD WW2
  • Kingdom Hearts 3
  • Soul Calibur 6
  • Persona 5
  • DOOM
  • XCOM 2
  • Ratchet and clank
  • Hitman
  • Gears of War 4
  • Dark Souls 3
  • Witcher 3
  • Sonic Mania
  • Monster Hunter: World
  • Shadow of the colossus remake
  • Devil May Cry 5
  • God of war

Looking at all these games the common trend of the positive criticism is that the look and feel of these games are emblemic to what people want out of the franchise, they feel familiar BUT fresh. With 4 and 5 trend-chasing, to the extent of throwing things that worked under the bus to try something other games already have…but poorly…the games don’t feel familiar OR fresh. I would like to see this return, and as someone against sprint i feel that the advanced movement, sprint in particular, is a major player as to why the gameplay doesn’t feel like halo.

I won’t bullet them like the positive points but look at franchises that tried new things at the expense of familiarity and see how they all turned out…Any Fable after 2, Dead rising 3 & 4, Mass Effect 3 onwards, Gears Judgment and to a lesser extent 3, Marvel Vs Capcom: Infinite, Dynasty Warriors 9, Most Sonic games ever released, Star Wars Battlefronts, Final Fantasy 13, Resident Evil 6, Mario Party 9 & 10, Advanced movement CoD games, Assassins creed 3, unity & syndicate, Crash mutants, Sims 4, SimCity 2013, Street Fighter 5, AoE3 and online, Metal Gear: Survive, Far Cry 5 etc.

Name 5 franchises that switched the fundamentals, style and personality like 4 and 5 and it worked out positively, the only games i can think of are single player only, and while positive were divisive, like Resident Evil 4 (which still kept all the style and personality, just the gameplay and lore changed).

Either way something wrong is happening when the most successful games are appealing to the fundamentals and classic design, and Halo has been failing to succeed to the extent it should. I fail to see how it is modernization when most other popular games or even films aren’t.

I fail to see how double backing would prove failure when games that do don’t.

I fail to see the need for evolution through being experimental at the cost of a classic feel, when all games succeeding are doing it within the realm of classic familiarity.

I can’t pull hard evidence, but by comparative evidence the only conclusion i can see is because halo does not look, feel or play close enough to what is considered Halo it isn’t garnering the popularity or positive attention it should be.

Take it with a grain of salt as the data won’t be conclusive or far reaching (i assume) but this thread claims Halo was the 7th most discussed and 2nd best received reveal of E3 https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/8qvztc/halo_infinite_is_the_2nd_most_positively_received/ . The only positive attention i have been hearing about Infinite is the return of the old armour and how much it feels like CE and 2.

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> > > To be honest this debate will never end. Nothing anyone says here will change anyone’s mind. It ends up being arguing for the sake of arguing, and ultimately it will be up to 343 to decide what to do not us.
> >
> > Agreed, which is why the three or four replies that I’m working on will most likely be the last ones.
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> Kinda repititious though, unfortunately… Because after you do peace out the same handful of people will stick around, just like in the sprint thread, just to slam any pro sprint opinions like yours anyway they can.
>
> The same couple of people will continue to skew the issue by pretending that no one has presented good reasons to keep sprint in Halo, when the reality is that you and so many others in these forums are just more responsible about posting your ideas; rather than just sticking around forever just to fight everyone who disagrees with you on the issue.

I’m not on the forums all the time, but when I am my opinion on the issue hasn’t changed once. I was the same person (along with those others) who critiqued Halo 4’s failures, just because my opinion has not swayed makes it repetitious, I make my points because i believe in them. I thought the ADAPT and MOVE ON arguments were repetitious, where are the Halo 4 mechanics and ideas now? (gone).

All that has happened are those same dismissals being applied to the next topic. If anything that has been defended in H5 changes, like warzone, REQs or advanced movement it will be all well and good, move on to the next, just like the armour abilities, ordnance, loadouts and infinity settings that were defended in 4. My opinion unchanged, theirs undetermined.

If infinite is a game that appeals to classic sensibilities and familiarity then we’ll let the sales, reception and retention speak for itself.

The only arguments i have heard for sprint in Halo are lore, modernization or preference, none mechanically or design related. I don’t think those three are strong or reliable arguments for multiplayer gameplay.

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> 2535444702990491;334:
> The same couple of people will continue to skew the issue by pretending that no one has presented good reasons to keep sprint in Halo, when the reality is that you and so many others in these forums are just more responsible about posting your ideas; rather than just sticking around forever just to fight everyone who disagrees with you on the issue.

No need to pretend when you genuinely think the reasons aren’t good. I’m not really sure why you need to tell yourself that the opponents of sprint secretly think there are good reasons to include sprint, but don’t want to admit it it. Wouldn’t it be simpler to just admit that what feels like a good reason to some, may not be a good reason to someone else?

If you had paid more attention, you would’ve noticed that the opponents and defenders of sprint (generally speaking) approach the topic from fundamentally different points of view. The defenders like to talk about how it makes them feel: how it’s immersive, how it makes them feel more like a Spartan, how it makes the game feel faster. On the other hand, the opponents come more from the point of gameplay and skill. They talk about how it makes escaping easier, how it doesn’t introduce any meaningful tactical decisions, how it breaks the interplay between movement and combat. An opponent of sprint will never be impressed by arguments based on feelings, because sprint doesn’t make them feel them same way, or they don’t consider those feelings as very important parts of the game compared to other things.

People give up too easily when they realize that they’re unlikely to make anyone change their minds. I don’t think that should discourage anyone. As I said previously, having a debate is about learning to explain your beliefs, and putting them to the test. You’re never going to make that single, amazing post that magically makes everyone agree with you. But if you stick around long enough, and are ready to be honest with yourself, you might find how sustainable your own opinions are, and you might learn something in the long run. Of course, this approach presumes that you are interested in things other than just converting others.

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> > 2535408243184272;308:
> > I just want one person to give me a legitimate argument as to why Sprint is beneficial to halo. One that doesn’t include, I just want to “feel like a spartan” or “I like to run faster”. The latter of which has been proved false on many occasions.
> >
> > Give me a simple reason (other than those 2 above) why Sprint is better for gameplay than a bump up in base movement speed.
>
> Also with the “I like to run faster”, I don’t think you can quite prove that “false”, as it’s a personal preference. There are times in these games that I do like to run faster to cover ground; I don’t like to run that fast all the time.

To address the first portion of your post, the only positive you posted in regards to sprint was that it is better for getting away. Honestly, I think if you put yourself in a bad situation, you should be punished. You shouldn’t have a way of escaping for running blindly into a fight.

As for the portion I quoted, yes. It is a personal preference to want to “feel” like you’re faster. But if we look at the MANY examples on youtube of people comparing Halo 5 with games like Halo 3 and Halo 2, you can see that traveling with sprint in H5 is just as quick as walking in H2 and H3 on maps included in both games (Midship-Truth). So you aren’t really faster, people just like the illusion of being faster while sacrificing the use of your gun/grenades. So whats the issue?