> 2533274820483063;3280:
> The problem with the Halo 3 that people didn’t like is that you felt slow. Enemies running away looked slow as well. Even if it was because of the FOV, the point is it feels slow. That’s the main complaint. It’s not necessarily that we want Sprint, we just don’t want to feel slow. I hope that makes since.
I’m not sure what portion of proponents of sprint you’re representing there. Many people have turned down increased base movement speed and FoV as alternatives to sprint, alternatives which almost all opponents of sprint agree would be fine.
> 2533274825830455;3282:
> > 2533274820483063;3280:
> > The problem with the Halo 3 that people didn’t like is that you felt slow. Enemies running away looked slow as well. Even if it was because of the FOV, the point is it feels slow. That’s the main complaint. It’s not necessarily that we want Sprint, we just don’t want to feel slow. I hope that makes since.
>
> I’m not sure what portion of proponents of sprint you’re representing there. Many people have turned down increased base movement speed and FoV as alternatives to sprint, alternatives which almost all opponents of sprint agree would be fine.
I’m not sure. I see the most common complaint of “Feeling” slow. It’s the feeling that needs to be fixed. For me, I like both old and new but am happy to lose Sprint with a very high base movement speed.
I don’t like the FOV option because I always felt it just distorted the picture. I realize that it won’t be that big but still I do not prefer it.
And as you said, not everyone against Sprint will be happy with a high base movement speed but majority will and I feel the same for the Sprint supporters as well. It seems to be the best middle ground for to satisfy both new and classic styles. The only people left out will be the ones that take to the extreme sides.
The point being it’s important both sides give a little here and there to get the most people to play and be happy. For me the movement mechanics aren’t what make a Halo game. To me a Halo game is about long ttk (not a twitch shooter), even starts, focus on precision weapons, power weapons, and map movement/control. When I say map movement I mean being in the right places at the right time. These are the things I look for when I play Halo and why I like the series. Sprint in Halo 5 along with the other abilities were just tools that didn’t change the stuff I liked. Halo 4 though, as I said before was not Halo in many ways to me, Sprint not being one of then
> 2533274945422049;3281:
> > 2533274820483063;3280:
> > > 2535407747275549;3279:
> > > I’m just gonna leave this here but.
> > > can any of you sprint supporters explain to us why sprint is just soooo good and is an absolute requirement for future halo titles and please tell me how a “doom eternal style” movement system won’t “fix” this “issue”
> > > like stated before halo 2 and 3 were actually quite fast in terms of getting around the map but because the games fov is so low it gave of the illusion of turtle speed and for the record halo 2 didn’t feel slow one bit so again not seeing how this sprint argument even still holds any water. The issue is sprint simply isn’t halo and halo never needed or wanted it and for those saying it had to “evolve” are again arguing with no ground because halo was in a market full of games with sprint mechanics and still dominated the market and as for today we have DOOM being a perfect example of why sprint simply isn’t needed for a game to be fun or successful even in a market saturated with “standard” gameplay mechanics me personally the only reason people want sprint so bad is A: there cod players who can’t play anything different or B people who simply never played halo in its original form and have literally only played games with a sprint mechanic so they can’t adapt other than that I don’t see why people are so avid about sprint it’s a useless mechanic in halo Because the so called “problem” that people are saying needs to be fixed can be fixed with a simple base movement speed increase and FOV increase and I hate to be this guy but this is partly 343s fault for ever thinking it was a good idea to codify halo to begin with.tldr: sprint isn’t needed in anyway to make halo fast paced or fun doom csgo and the bungie halos prove this.
> >
> > The problem with the Halo 3 that people didn’t like is that you felt slow. Enemies running away looked slow as well. Even if it was because of the FOV, the point is it feels slow. That’s the main complaint. It’s not necessarily that we want Sprint, we just don’t want to feel slow. I hope that makes since.
> >
> > Lastly, adding Sprint does not turn Halo into cod. Sprint is in a ton of games and to say that one game mechanic turned Halo into cod is so over exaggerated. Halo 5 played nothing like cod and if you think so then thats on you.
> >
> > I loved all the Halo games with Halo 4 being the worst by a huge margin. That is a Halo that took too much from cod because of the multiple things that were added and took away what made a Halo mp feel like Halo.
> >
> > Lastly, I would be down for infinite to have a really high base movement speed. Something close to Halo 5 Sprint speed but a tad lower. With maps made for it I think it will be great for classic and new. I also think thrusters should stay because it is a great way to have a quick change of direction that makes firefights that more entertaining for me.
>
> so basicaly mythic slayer movement. i like it. in addition i would like to see a momentum based melee system return, a slight bounciness to spartans (for tricks an momentum usage) and a few extra percents of forward speed that automaticaly kick in after a few seconds of forward movement ( usefull for big maps, but not much else).
Yeah that would be cool. I like mythic Slayer but still want a bit of a higher base movement speed. I also feel most the maps are too crammed. Too many walls and corners that I dont like much but they are okay I guess. I prefer more open maps like Zanzibar or truth from halo 5. That’s probably why I want a higher base movement speed from mythic playlist
> 2533274820483063;3280:
> > 2535407747275549;3279:
> > tldr: sprint isn’t needed in anyway to make halo fast paced or fun doom csgo and the bungie halos prove this.
>
> The problem with the Halo 3 that people didn’t like is that you felt slow. Enemies running away looked slow as well. Even if it was because of the FOV, the point is it feels slow. That’s the main complaint. It’s not necessarily that we want Sprint, we just don’t want to feel slow. I hope that makes since
I’ve seen a lot of people both in and outside this website say that they explicitly want Sprint, even over an increased FOV (which is exactly what Reach-5 is, a game with increased FOV compared to Halo 3).
Especially since the FoV problem only really happens on Halo 2 and Halo 3, but people say Halo CE is even slower. Even with Reach being slower most of the time (because you don’t always have Sprint), people don’t say it’s slow.
If the problem was really this simple, the equally simple FOV slider would be all it take to eliminate this.
> 2533274833081329;3285:
> > 2533274820483063;3280:
> > > 2535407747275549;3279:
> > > tldr: sprint isn’t needed in anyway to make halo fast paced or fun doom csgo and the bungie halos prove this.
> >
> > The problem with the Halo 3 that people didn’t like is that you felt slow. Enemies running away looked slow as well. Even if it was because of the FOV, the point is it feels slow. That’s the main complaint. It’s not necessarily that we want Sprint, we just don’t want to feel slow. I hope that makes since
>
> I’ve seen a lot of people both in and outside this website say that they explicitly want Sprint, even over an increased FOV (which is exactly what Reach-5 is, a game with increased FOV compared to Halo 3).
>
> Especially since the FoV problem only really happens on Halo 2 and Halo 3, but people say Halo CE is even slower. Even with Reach being slower most of the time (because you don’t always have Sprint), people don’t say it’s slow.
>
> If the problem was really this simple, the equally simple FOV slider would be all it take to eliminate this.
most people think that the only option is slow with no sprint vs. fastmode sprint, as this is the most widespread movement mechanic. the option of higher bms to increase the gameplay speed doesn’t cross most peoples mind, as it is a very uncommon feature today.
IMO
343 Needs to focus on the sandbox.
Make the base mechanics as simple as possible and make a deep and complex sandbox. This is the philosophy for the original trilogy.
If 343 wants to capture that classic feel of Halo, then this needs to be at the forefront of infinite’s design. Whether or not that means sprint stays or goes is up to them. But Abilities such as armour abilities like in Halo 4 and Reach, and thrust, groundpound etc have no place in Halo.
If for some reason they feel compelled to keep these in, then make them pickups instead of base abilities, For example, you can pick up hologram and use it twice.
> 2533274963639252;3287:
> [CUT]
> If for some reason they feel compelled to keep these in, then make them pickups instead of base abilities, For example, you can pick up hologram and use it twice.
I believe that’s the only possibility to have AA in a functioning way IF Halo goes back to its classic roots. No wonder so many have asked for AA making a return as pick up items instead of loadouts! I would love it too frankly! It feels like a natural and more in depth evolution to equipments from H3. Also by doing so a lot of balancing issues would be avoided as well.
The only thing missing is a way to comunicate to other players what AA the Spartan or Elite is carrying with him. Maybe color-coding the lights on the armor? (If there are lights that is, doesn’t seem to be the case based on the trailer!)
With the return of mythic gameplay in h5, in the form of mythic rumble - I still stand by no sprint and removal of majority of spartan abilities (minus mythic variant of thrusters) .
Many ppl have suggested bringing back AA/SA in the form of temporary map pick ups - akin to equipment/power ups. I think this is a good idea, having these available in customs will go a long way with custom games. And having a select few in matchmaking (with appropriate map placements/timings), would encourage map movement akin to power weapons and power ups. However as someone pointed out we should be able to tell if someone is in possession of one, reduce the randomness/frustration of these.
I see, no reason for sprint to return at all tbf (with a bump in base movement speed like mythic), especially if we had a high speed power up - for instance. Bottom line, if these abilities return they need to be non intrusive to the core Halo experience. I’d be lying if I said I couldn’t see their value in custom games though.
> 2533274801176657;3289:
> With the return of mythic gameplay in h5, in the form of mythic rumble - I still stand by no sprint and removal of majority of spartan abilities (minus mythic variant of thrusters) .
>
> Many ppl have suggested bringing back AA/SA in the form of temporary map pick ups - akin to equipment/power ups. I think this is a good idea, having these available in customs will go a long way with custom games. And having a select few in matchmaking (with appropriate map placements/timings), would encourage map movement akin to power weapons and power ups. However as someone pointed out we should be able to tell if someone is in possession of one, reduce the randomness/frustration of these.
>
> I see, no reason for sprint to return at all tbf (with a bump in base movement speed like mythic), especially if we had a high speed power up - for instance. Bottom line, if these abilities return they need to be non intrusive to the core Halo experience. I’d be lying if I said I couldn’t see their value in custom games though.
a sprint module could be equipement ( limited uses, unless toggled in the gametype settings) for certain gametypes, effectively replicating the halo 5 sandbox. groundpound could also return as equipement.
the spartan should be slightly bouncy and have a slightly higher forward max speed ( that needs a decent buildup). this would allow for more movement chaining and possible slight wall bounces. thrusting in midair while crouching should enable a downward thrust. i think momentum should increase melee damage (dealt and taken).
> 2533274935111428;3291:
> id be happy for normal halo gameplay but i honestly dont think 343 would do it since a book said spartans go fast
I always was so confused that in the books Spartan’s were portrayed as being so fast that the eye had a hard time keeping up with them, and in Bungie’s OG trilogy, you could not even run.
In my view, sprint should be kept, and spartan abilities should go out the window.
> 2535438636443468;3292:
> I always was so confused that in the books Spartan’s were portrayed as being so fast that the eye had a hard time keeping up with them, and in Bungie’s OG trilogy, you could not even run.
You were running in the original trilogy. All the time. What do you think that 15mph is? The difference is that Spartans can shoot while running.
> 2535438636443468;3292:
> In my view, sprint should be kept, and spartan abilities should go out the window.
> 2533274801176260;3293:
> > 2535438636443468;3292:
> > I always was so confused that in the books Spartan’s were portrayed as being so fast that the eye had a hard time keeping up with them, and in Bungie’s OG trilogy, you could not even run.
>
> You were running in the original trilogy. All the time. What do you think that 15mph is? The difference is that Spartans can shoot while running.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535438636443468;3292:
> > In my view, sprint should be kept, and spartan abilities should go out the window.
>
> Sprint is a Spartan ability.
I don’t see what the point of this argument is. You said they run 15mph in the original trilogy. First of all that is not fast for a spartan. Any person can reach that speed.
The point is. When playing the game, seeing other Spartans and how fast you moved seemed slow. Imagine bungie said we were going 40mph in the original trilogy. That wouldn’t matter because the feeling you get while playing is slow. I feel that is the main thing in Halo that did not age well. When I hope back on and play Halo 3 or 2 anniversary, I felt like I was slower than I remember.
All I’m saying is the argument for or against Sprint should be focused on the feel of the game. Lore would not work at all for even Halo 5s Sprint is not like the lore. There is nothing wrong with the original trilogy making people feel slow. They were great games but that aspect did not age well. To me that is how it is.
I will still hold out for a very fast base movement speed being the best option for both sides. Maybe even as fast as Halo 5 Sprint can be base movement speed.
Also, I don’t want to hear about the limited FOV that made the games feel slower than they are. The games were made that way and I hate having to change a field of you to feel faster.
> 2535438636443468;3292:
> Indeed.
>
>
> > 2533274935111428;3291:
> > id be happy for normal halo gameplay but i honestly dont think 343 would do it since a book said spartans go fast
>
> I always was so confused that in the books Spartan’s were portrayed as being so fast that the eye had a hard time keeping up with them, and in Bungie’s OG trilogy, you could not even run.
>
> In my view, sprint should be kept, and spartan abilities should go out the window.
You were always sprinting while aiming in the first three Halos. Why do we have to press a button to do it all of the sudden? To be like other games?
> 2533274801973487;3294:
> > 2533274801176260;3293:
> > What do you think that 15mph is?
>
> A sign that one of the biggest nations in the world is too stubborn to adopt the metric system?
Actually, metric is pretty much used everywhere but in conversation. Science has been using metric since forever, economy uses it since the 60s or so, etc.
In this specific case, the exact movement speed is 7m/s, which is only roughly 15mph, so Bungie was using it too… however I felt the point would come across better.
> 2533274820483063;3295:
> I don’t see what the point of this argument is. You said they run 15mph in the original trilogy. First of all that is not fast for a spartan. Any person can reach that speed.
Reaching yes… maintaining it indefinitely? Not so much…
> 2533274820483063;3295:
> All I’m saying is the argument for or against Sprint should be focused on the feel of the game.
No. Absolutely not. That is the one thing this argument shouldn’t be focused on.
Feelings are subjective. They not only vary from person to person, but they even change over time. You yourself said that the original trilogy didn’t feel slow at the time, but does now. That alone should tell you that catering to feelings is a high-risk gamble at best.
Dual wielding feels great. However, it is horrible to balance and arguably breaks the entire weapon sandbox. It was removed because the objective balance of the gameplay weighs higher than the subjective perception thereof.
Sprint needs to be held to that same standard.
> 2533274820483063;3295:
> Also, I don’t want to hear about the limited FOV that made the games feel slower than they are. The games were made that way and I hate having to change a field of you to feel faster.
The games were also made on the dawn of console shooters and at a time when 3:4-CRTs with 480by640px were the norm. People were just getting accustomed to moving in 3D-space with controllers on small screens. Of course they could handle faster movement nowadays on their 80-inch 4K-TVs.
> 2533274801176260;3297:
> > 2533274801973487;3294:
> > > 2533274801176260;3293:
> > > What do you think that 15mph is?
> >
> > A sign that one of the biggest nations in the world is too stubborn to adopt the metric system?
>
> Actually, metric is pretty much used everywhere but in conversation. Science has been using metric since forever, economy uses it since the 60s or so, etc.
> In this specific case, the exact movement speed is 7m/s, which is only roughly 15mph, so Bungie was using it too… however I felt the point would come across better.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274820483063;3295:
> > I don’t see what the point of this argument is. You said they run 15mph in the original trilogy. First of all that is not fast for a spartan. Any person can reach that speed.
>
> Reaching yes… maintaining it indefinitely? Not so much…
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274820483063;3295:
> > All I’m saying is the argument for or against Sprint should be focused on the feel of the game.
>
> No. Absolutely not. That is the one thing this argument shouldn’t be focused on.
> Feelings are subjective. They not only vary from person to person, but they even change over time. You yourself said that the original trilogy didn’t feel slow at the time, but does now. That alone should tell you that catering to feelings is a high-risk gamble at best.
> Dual wielding feels great. However, it is horrible to balance and arguably breaks the entire weapon sandbox. It was removed because the objective balance of the gameplay weighs higher than the subjective perception thereof.
> Sprint needs to be held to that same standard.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274820483063;3295:
> > Also, I don’t want to hear about the limited FOV that made the games feel slower than they are. The games were made that way and I hate having to change a field of you to feel faster.
>
> The games were also made on the dawn of console shooters and at a time when 3:4-CRTs with 480by640px were the norm. People were just getting accustomed to moving in 3D-space with controllers on small screens. Of course they could handle faster movement nowadays on their 80-inch 4K-TVs.
What I mean by the feel of the game was misunderstood. It’s not a subjective feeling. You were slow in the old Halo games. I said you always felt slow. That never changed, I just said that it didn’t age well for me today.
I’m not for or against Sprint. I just want them to make a game where movement is fast. I should also mention I like slightly open ended maps like empire in Halo 5. I’m not a fan of maps with too many walls and corners like the current mythic playlist. They feel too maze like. Zanzibar is a map I like. This is the main reason I want faster movement whether it be basemovent speed or Sprint as long as it was like Halo 5, not Halo 4 or reach.
This is an old vid that is so relevant to this prolonged discussion. It’s only 90 secs, but succinctly explains why H5’s “enhanced mobility” is very restrictive, compared to classic gameplay. I encourage you to watch:
This is why despite fun being subjective, you can’t objectively say that h5 (mythic being an exception) hasn’t removed fundamental tools from the arena shooter roots classic halo was grounded in. And Imfinite seems to be drawing inspiration heavily from classic halo’s, so I hope they do the right thing
> 2533274801176657;3300:
> This is an old vid that is so relevant to this prolonged discussion. It’s only 90 secs, but succinctly explains why H5’s “enhanced mobility” is very restrictive, compared to classic gameplay. I encourage you to watch:
>
> Here, take this link on the go! This is why despite fun being subjective, you can’t objectively say that h5 (mythic being an exception) hasn’t removed fundamental tools from the arena shooter roots classic halo was grounded in. And Imfinite seems to be drawing inspiration heavily from classic halo’s, so I hope they do the right thing
I linked the video for 'ya, but frankly everyone visiting the forum half-regularly here has seen it already. Multiple times in fact!
It get re-posted every five pages or so, with good reasons though, I give you that. I’ve a hard time understanding who still defends sprint and climb after watching it… Even if you disagree, you should at least be able to understand why we’re against sprint in Halo!
