The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> 2533274890331729;3260:
> i dont see the point in Making Halo 2/3 Style game when we can already play it in MCC anyway.

i dont see the point in making a Halo 5-style game when we can already play Halo 5 anyway…

> 2533274825160595;3259:
> No its not their just taking the population numbers of halo 3 comparing them to every halo game that came after and saying, “this proves that people only like Halo 3s gameplay.” Of course they would never compare halo 2s population and sales numbers even though it’s gameplay is practically identical cuz that would go against their agenda.

IIrc Halo used to be #1 on the XBL charts until H3 launched, H3 was #1 until Reach launched (over the entiere year, CoD4/WaW used to be #1 for a couple week every once in a while). Halo started dropping with Reach but still kept it’s place in the top 5 or so…I don’t have the numbers for H5 but didn’t people realize that H5 dropped out of the top10 after a couple of months already?!

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> > > > > > 2535466098043799;3233:
> > > > > > I’ve seen it argued H5 is slower paced than the older games? but never felt it that way
> > > > >
> > > > > In Halo 5, you are probably performing more actions per minute, because of constatly having to use Spartan Abilities and whatnot. However, people often mean pace as the rate at which the game progresses, which in Halo 5 isn’t demonstrably faster than in classic games. It comes down to what you mean by pace.
> > > > >
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> > > > > > 2535466098043799;3233:
> > > > > > Another thing (and this might just been a thing only I feel) is that H5 gameplay seems to, in some of the dev made maps, cause level architecture, especially in human environments, to be quite bizarre looking. Just like big weird objects and shapes put there for the sake of clambering over that make it hard to imagine humans walking around in these locations. Whereas with classic movement the levels could look more build for purpose.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is an interesting observation. I’m not sure which comes first, 343i’s architecture or Spartan Abilities, but it’s certainly true that having such a generous array of movement mechanics will significantly constrain the level design, and hence the architecture. But I find it hard to believe that this wouldn’t be completely avoidable with more creative level design.
> > > >
> > > > But when it comes to map creation why make ot harder than it has to be when clearly population wise people enjoyed sprintless Halo more.
> > >
> > > Is this fact? Not taking a position, just wondering what informed your statement.
> >
> > No its not their just taking the population numbers of halo 3 comparing them to every halo game that came after and saying, “this proves that people only like Halo 3s gameplay.” Of course they would never compare halo 2s population and sales numbers even though it’s gameplay is practically identical cuz that would go against their agenda.
>
> You realise that H2’s population was most probably bigger and for sure more stable than H5G, right? Same goes for og Reach btw. (but not the Steam version - it’s true that it blow H5 out of the water in the first two weeks or so, but it dropped and it dropped hard shortly after).
>
> As for how we know, while we don’t have the H5 population count of course, we do however have the positions of most played Live games over the months. We also have a fair amount of population info of many games around the same position as why we can make some reasonable assumptions. But sure, you’re right! it’s about agendas. You do you buddy…

> 2533274801973487;3262:
> > 2533274890331729;3260:
> > i dont see the point in Making Halo 2/3 Style game when we can already play it in MCC anyway.
>
> i dont see the point in making a Halo 5-style game when we can already play Halo 5 anyway…
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274825160595;3259:
> > No its not their just taking the population numbers of halo 3 comparing them to every halo game that came after and saying, “this proves that people only like Halo 3s gameplay.” Of course they would never compare halo 2s population and sales numbers even though it’s gameplay is practically identical cuz that would go against their agenda.
>
> IIrc Halo used to be #1 on the XBL charts until H3 launched, H3 was #1 until Reach launched (over the entiere year, CoD4/WaW used to be #1 for a couple week every once in a while). Halo started dropping with Reach but still kept it’s place in the top 5 or so…I don’t have the numbers for H5 but didn’t people realize that H5 dropped out of the top10 after a couple of months already?!

That’s nice. So where is the proof this has happen purely because of gameplay mechanics? Oh and hereHere halo 2s population. Yeah it also had nowhere near the population halo 3 had either. But if the gameplay was what the only reason it was popular then it surely would have a similar population to Halo 3. There are hundreds of reasons that the populations are lower now and there is zero evidence to suggest the main reason or even a significant reason is because of gameplay.

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> > 2533274870929230;3256:
> > > 2533274825726490;3246:
> > > But when it comes to map creation why make ot harder than it has to be when clearly population wise people enjoyed sprintless Halo more.
> >
> > Is this fact? Not taking a position, just wondering what informed your statement.
>
> No its not their just taking the population numbers of halo 3 comparing them to every halo game that came after and saying, “this proves that people only like Halo 3s gameplay.” Of course they would never compare halo 2s population and sales numbers even though it’s gameplay is practically identical cuz that would go against their agenda.

Let’s not be so hasty. You’re probably correct that the ultimate reason people never bring up the popularity of Halo 2 is that the numbers look considerably not as impressive in the modern age as those of Halo 3. But there is a good reason to not bring up the population of Halo 2, namely, that it is not comparable to popularity of modern games because the circumstances were different. When Halo 2 relased, gaming wasn’t as popular, online play wasn’t as popular, and by extension Xbox Live wasn’t as popular. So, of course it should not come as a surprise to anyone that Halo 2 is significantly less popular than Halo 3. But this neglects the fact that if you compare the population relative to the number of players who had access to online play at that time, Halo 2 probably at least matches Halo 3. And I would argue that this is the more relevant metric: what portion of the potential available player base actually plays the game.

The circumstances for modern Halo are, of course, entirely different: online play has reached a saturation point. By all accounts, Halo Reach, 4, and 5 should at the very least be comparable to Halo 3, if not have an advantage. But we know that Halo Reach and 4 are less popular in absolute terms than Halo 3 was, and there is good reason to believe Halo 5 is also. So, they are definitely less popular relative to the available online population.

It is therefore correct at least to say “Sprintless Halo was more popular relative to the available online population at the time than Halo with sprint”. And if we accept that this is the only meaningful comparison between games from different time periods, we can drop the “relative to the available online population at the time”.

Of course, whether sprint has anything to do with this is completely unknown. It’s just that the statement, the way it is phrased, is true in the above sense by default since there has never been a Halo with sprint that has performed better relative to the potential available population than a Halo without sprint. You could replace “sprint” with, say, DMR and it would still be true.

> 2533274801973487;3262:
> IIrc Halo used to be #1 on the XBL charts until H3 launched, H3 was #1 until Reach launched (over the entiere year, CoD4/WaW used to be #1 for a couple week every once in a while). Halo started dropping with Reach but still kept it’s place in the top 5 or so…I don’t have the numbers for H5 but didn’t people realize that H5 dropped out of the top10 after a couple of months already?!

After CoD 4, CoD actually spent more weeks as 1st than Halo: see here.

> 2533274795098161;3261:
> But sure, you’re right! it’s about agendas. You do you buddy…

Well, it is. Anyone who has been around this discussion enough time can notice that people on both sides of the topic don’t exactly bring up data or arguments that would be in conflict with their agenda. And when something is brought up that is seemingly in conflict with their end goal, they either claim it isn’t true, or find a way to justify to themselves why it is not in conflict with their agenda.

I mean, just look at what I wrote above. Clearly, the statement of Frossst Bite is at best irrelevant, because even if it is true, there is no way to prove that its truth has anything to do with sprint. Yet I felt a need to point out that, in some sense, it is technically true, given some assumptions that make it unambiguous. Would I have felt that need had it not been fiercly denied by somone? Probably not.

Another example is the statement of DARTH CEDIOUS I quoted above. Would he have had as much confidence in that false statement if he didn’t have some deeper reason to? Would he perhaps have been more preserved given the uncertainty if there wasn’t some potential pay-off if it were true?

Let’s face it: this discussion is all about agenda. There is not a single person in this thread who would readily seek and bring up evidence that conflicts their agenda. if you want, I can bring up more examples of myself again and again not being as diligent as I should have been because I was worried that more evidence would ruin the thing I was trying to prove. So, either I am the least honest person in this thread, or this discussion is riddled with agenda.

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I have always felt that Halo Infinite, despite LOOKING like it did before, still has the ability to innovate and change instead of simply turning into Halo 1-3 remastered. One must remember that the 343 Developers said themselves that the game was a SPIRITUAL reboot, not an absolute 100% CLASSIC CALLBACK. So without any malice towards any member of this discussion, i simply state that sprint in all likely hood will return, just not as we remember it from Halo 5.

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At least in my view. :slight_smile:

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We know that generally comparing populations between iterations is ultimately a waste of time because it is impossible to isolate the variables. We can’t conclude that game population depends on the presence of sprint because there are a million uncontrolled confounds.

As far as I see it, the only real way to determine if sprint causes higher population counts is with a controlled experiment. At best, given the lack of access to labs and participants, we can come up with a correlation study using a survey, but then we would need to discuss methodology and statistical testing.

Short of using empirical methods, making broad claims like “sprint is unpopular as evidenced by population changes” is at best genuine ignorance and at worst willfully ignorant agenda-peddling.

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> 2533274825830455;3264:
> > 2533274801973487;3262:
> > IIrc Halo used to be #1 on the XBL charts until H3 launched, H3 was #1 until Reach launched (over the entiere year, CoD4/WaW used to be #1 for a couple week every once in a while). Halo started dropping with Reach but still kept it’s place in the top 5 or so…I don’t have the numbers for H5 but didn’t people realize that H5 dropped out of the top10 after a couple of months already?!
>
> After CoD 4, CoD actually spent more weeks as 1st than Halo: see here.

Thats intersting, where is that graph from? According to Major Nelson Halo 3 was XBL #1 in 2007, 2008 and 2009, could it be UU (anual top 10) vs time played (weekly top 10?)or something like this?!

> 2533274825160595;3263:
> That’s nice. So where is the proof this has happen purely because of gameplay mechanics? Oh and hereHere halo 2s population. Yeah it also had nowhere near the population halo 3 had either. But if the gameplay was what the only reason it was popular then it surely would have a similar population to Halo 3. There are hundreds of reasons that the populations are lower now and there is zero evidence to suggest the main reason or even a significant reason is because of gameplay.

Well I won’t argue that there are many reasons that Halos populariy dropped and I won’t try to pinpoint it’s fall on sprint alone but one cannot deny that Halo has lost some of it’s appeal starting with Reach.
Google OG Xbox and 360 sales. Raw sales a bad measurement, if 1000 people buy a console selling 500 copies of a single game is a success, if 100k people buy a console, selling 1000 copies of a game is more then 500 but worse in terms of relative success.

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> > > > > > 2533274825830455;3234:
> > > > > > > 2535466098043799;3233:
> > > > > > > I’ve seen it argued H5 is slower paced than the older games? but never felt it that way
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Halo 5, you are probably performing more actions per minute, because of constatly having to use Spartan Abilities and whatnot. However, people often mean pace as the rate at which the game progresses, which in Halo 5 isn’t demonstrably faster than in classic games. It comes down to what you mean by pace.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2535466098043799;3233:
> > > > > > > Another thing (and this might just been a thing only I feel) is that H5 gameplay seems to, in some of the dev made maps, cause level architecture, especially in human environments, to be quite bizarre looking. Just like big weird objects and shapes put there for the sake of clambering over that make it hard to imagine humans walking around in these locations. Whereas with classic movement the levels could look more build for purpose.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is an interesting observation. I’m not sure which comes first, 343i’s architecture or Spartan Abilities, but it’s certainly true that having such a generous array of movement mechanics will significantly constrain the level design, and hence the architecture. But I find it hard to believe that this wouldn’t be completely avoidable with more creative level design.
> > > > >
> > > > > But when it comes to map creation why make ot harder than it has to be when clearly population wise people enjoyed sprintless Halo more.
> > > >
> > > > Is this fact? Not taking a position, just wondering what informed your statement.
> > >
> > > No its not their just taking the population numbers of halo 3 comparing them to every halo game that came after and saying, “this proves that people only like Halo 3s gameplay.” Of course they would never compare halo 2s population and sales numbers even though it’s gameplay is practically identical cuz that would go against their agenda.
> >
> > You realise that H2’s population was most probably bigger and for sure more stable than H5G, right? Same goes for og Reach btw. (but not the Steam version - it’s true that it blow H5 out of the water in the first two weeks or so, but it dropped and it dropped hard shortly after).
> >
> > As for how we know, while we don’t have the H5 population count of course, we do however have the positions of most played Live games over the months. We also have a fair amount of population info of many games around the same position as why we can make some reasonable assumptions. But sure, you’re right! it’s about agendas. You do you buddy…
>
>
>
> > 2533274801973487;3262:
> > > 2533274890331729;3260:
> > > i dont see the point in Making Halo 2/3 Style game when we can already play it in MCC anyway.
> >
> > i dont see the point in making a Halo 5-style game when we can already play Halo 5 anyway…
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274825160595;3259:
> > > No its not their just taking the population numbers of halo 3 comparing them to every halo game that came after and saying, “this proves that people only like Halo 3s gameplay.” Of course they would never compare halo 2s population and sales numbers even though it’s gameplay is practically identical cuz that would go against their agenda.
> >
> > IIrc Halo used to be #1 on the XBL charts until H3 launched, H3 was #1 until Reach launched (over the entiere year, CoD4/WaW used to be #1 for a couple week every once in a while). Halo started dropping with Reach but still kept it’s place in the top 5 or so…I don’t have the numbers for H5 but didn’t people realize that H5 dropped out of the top10 after a couple of months already?!
>
> That’s nice. So where is the proof this has happen purely because of gameplay mechanics? Oh and hereHere halo 2s population. Yeah it also had nowhere near the population halo 3 had either. But if the gameplay was what the only reason it was popular then it surely would have a similar population to Halo 3. There are hundreds of reasons that the populations are lower now and there is zero evidence to suggest the main reason or even a significant reason is because of gameplay.

I won’t get into the population part as I feel Tsassi got into that pretty good and I agree with him.

As far as there being zero evidence that it’s because of gameplay why Halo isn’t as popular, I would have to disagree that there is, and some of it is player population and popularity. Now that’s not to say it’s the only reason why Halo isn’t as popular because it definitely is not and I think anyone with any common sense would agree with that.

Reasons like game features not being in, forge for example, People not liking game mechanics like ADS style zooming, AAs etc, changing the way Halo played by going to a more loadout/kill streaks type gameplay, People losing interest in video games in general for whatever reason, Not as many people buying Xbox, competition at the time of x Halo release, The Master Chief not being the main focus or even in the game and so forth.

If you go to forms, talk to people either online or in “real life” about issues that Halo has now, or what you don’t like about it or whatever…Almost always the main things that gets brought up are things like AAs and/or SAs, ADS style zooming and by far the biggest one, the sprint animation, So core mechanics. These are things that are definitely controversial in Halo because if they weren’t you wouldn’t hear about them. Just like for example when Halo got away from even starts, had loadouts, had kill streaks, had no skill ranking system anymore, people complained about these things A LOT too!! Where as now in Halo 5, 343I went back to even starts, have no loadouts (minus Warzone) have no kill streaks and have a skill ranking system, the majority of people praise them for this, Even people that don’t like Halo 5 overall.

So yes, there are lots of reasons as to why Halo isn’t as popular as it once was but I don’t think you can totally dismiss the change in the core gameplay as not being a reason, because it DEFINITELY is one, it just might not be the MAIN one, but there’s a lot of evidence out there that says otherwise. Just look at this topic for example. It doesn’t matter if you’re for a sprint animation or against it, look at the divide on it. So I think it’s pretty reasonable and logical to assume that what gameplay mechanics should be in Halo is definitely the most controversial topic. In saying that, One can also logically assume because people are so divided on gameplay mechanics, It would be a big reason as too why Halo hasn’t been as successful over the years.

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> 2533274801973487;3268:
> Well I won’t argue that there are many reasons that Halos populariy dropped and I won’t try to pinpoint it’s fall on sprint alone but one cannot deny that Halo has lost some of it’s appeal starting with Reach.
> Google OG Xbox and 360 sales. Raw sales a bad measurement, if 1000 people buy a console selling 500 copies of a single game is a success, if 100k people buy a console, selling 1000 copies of a game is more then 500 but worse in terms of relative success.

Yes Halo 3 sold very well we know this, but Halo 2 a game with practically the exact same gameplay only sold over 8 million. Less than Halo 3, Reach and 4. clearly Halo 3 sold very well but that wasn’t because of gameplay if it was Halo 2 would have sold just as well. Clearly something happened with Halo 3 that Made is so much more popular than Halo 2. And there is noway it could have been the gameplay. Could it have possible been because of the marketing or the sheer hysteria around that game? News outlets where talking about people lining up for miles to buy a video game. This had never happened before and likely will never happen again. I can almost guarantee that there were at least of few people who had never played a video game that bought an 360 and Halo 3 just because of how many people were losing their minds and willing to wait hours if not days in a line to play a video game… But that’s just what i think and there is really no way to know for sure.

> 2533274815533909;3269:
> I won’t get into the population part as I feel tsassi got into that pretty good and I agree with him.
>
> As far as there being zero evidence that it’s because of gameplay why Halo isn’t as popular, I would have to disagree that there is, and some of it is player population and popularity. Now that’s not to say it’s the only reason why Halo isn’t as popular because it definitely is not and I think anyone with any common sense would agree with that.
>
> Reasons like game features not being in, forge for example, People not liking game mechanics like ADS style zooming, AAs etc, changing the way Halo played by going to a more loadout/kill streaks type gameplay, People losing interest in video games in general for whatever reason, Not as many people buying Xbox, competition at the time of x Halo release, The Master Chief not being the main focus or even in the game and so forth.
>
> If you go to forms, talk to people either online or in “real life” about issues that Halo has now, or what you don’t like about it or whatever…Almost always the main things that gets brought up are things like AAs and/or SAs, ADS style zooming and by far the biggest one, the sprint animation, So core mechanics. These are things that are definitely controversial in Halo because if they weren’t you wouldn’t hear about them. Just like for example when Halo got away from even starts, had loadouts, had kill streaks, had no skill ranking system anymore, people complained about these things A LOT too!! Where as now in Halo 5, 343I went back to even starts, have no loadouts (minus Warzone) have no kill streaks and have a skill ranking system, the majority of people praise them for this, Even people that don’t like Halo 5 overall.
>
> So yes, there are lots of reasons as to why Halo isn’t as popular as it once was but I don’t think you can totally dismiss the change in the core gameplay as not being a reason, because it DEFINITELY is one, it just might not be the MAIN one, but there’s a lot of evidence out there that says otherwise. Just look at this topic for example. It doesn’t matter if you’re for a sprint animation or against it, look at the divide on it. So I think it’s pretty reasonable and logical to assume that what gameplay mechanics should be in Halo is definitely the most controversial topic. In saying that, One can also logically assume because people are so divided on gameplay mechanics, It would be a big reason as too why Halo hasn’t been as successful over the years.

I’ve been on forums since Halo 2 and Ive been talking about halo with people since 2002. The largest Thread i have ever seen with a poll about Sprints had just about 10,000 people voting on it and around 90% of the people voting disliked Sprint. Yes there Are a lot of people who don’t like the new mechanic but I don’t think their numbers are that big I just think the people in it are really loud. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that the major of people or even a large amount of people that left halo left because of gameplay mechanics. All I have ever seen is People who don’t like the machanics saying that Halo is in decline because of the mechanics they don’t like.

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> 2533274801973487;3268:
> Thats intersting, where is that graph from? According to Major Nelson Halo 3 was XBL #1 in 2007, 2008 and 2009, could it be UU (anual top 10) vs time played (weekly top 10?)or something like this?!

I made it. It’s just the information from old Major Nelson blog entries of weekly XBL activity in a graph form.

The difference here is just the difference between annual UU, and weekly UU. I’m not sure how well annual UU catches popularity, since a player would only have to sign in on January 1st and never play again until next year, and they would count as much towards the annual total as someone who was active throughout the year.

If you meant the yearly top 20 the whole time, I’m sorry for saying you’re wrong. I’m just used to assuming that when people talk about the XBL activity charts, they mean the weekly chart.

> 2533274815533909;3269:
> So yes, there are lots of reasons as to why Halo isn’t as popular as it once was but I don’t think you can totally dismiss the change in the core gameplay as not being a reason, because it DEFINITELY is one, it just might not be the MAIN one, but there’s a lot of evidence out there that says otherwise. Just look at this topic for example. It doesn’t matter if you’re for a sprint animation or against it, look at the divide on it. So I think it’s pretty reasonable and logical to assume that what gameplay mechanics should be in Halo is definitely the most controversial topic. In saying that, One can also logically assume because people are so divided on gameplay mechanics, It would be a big reason as too why Halo hasn’t been as successful over the years.

The crucial assumption of this argument is that the controversy scales up not just to all long time Halo fans, but to every player who might under some circumstances buy a Halo game. There are reasons why a forum population is a bad sample, let alone a single thread on a forum. It takes relatively few people on a forum to make so much noise as to make an issue look highly controversial, whether or not it is. I observed a concrete example of this long ago in the sprint thread on the Halo 5 forum, where the majority of the posts came from just 100 users, even though over 2,000 had replied to the thread. When you looked at just those 100 people, most were against sprint. When you looked at all the posters, the situation flipped, and the majority of opinions were in fact in favor of sprint. But you’d never guess that just looking at the thread on any given day.

Personal intuition isn’t sufficient evidence. As much as I’d like to say with complete certainty that sprint is a factor in the loss of popularity, I can’t. Not without actual statistics that I have reason to believe represent the total population.

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> 2533274801973487;3262:
> > 2533274890331729;3260:
> > i dont see the point in Making Halo 2/3 Style game when we can already play it in MCC anyway.
>
> i dont see the point in making a Halo 5-style game when we can already play Halo 5 anyway…

Building on Halo 5’s movement system and improving it wouldnt make it just Halo 5 tho. What do you want from Halo Infinite to be diffrent then Halo 3 but also be the same ? Or you expect something completly new but closer to 3.

Its kinda makes more sense to have a more faster advanced Movement system but having as a Bonus some classic game mode with classic movement which is frankly not that hard to make so i dont think the game needs to focus only on that :smiley: and again i think MCC just has it and i cant imagine a new halo based on 2 or 3 which will improve it so much that i dont want to play Halo 2 or 3 on MCC (2A did improve on basic 2 in some way). But its possibl to improve on 5 in many ways i believe.

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> 2533274890331729;3272:
> > 2533274801973487;3262:
> > > 2533274890331729;3260:
> > > i dont see the point in Making Halo 2/3 Style game when we can already play it in MCC anyway.
> >
> > i dont see the point in making a Halo 5-style game when we can already play Halo 5 anyway…
>
> Building on Halo 5’s movement system and improving it wouldnt make it just Halo 5 tho…

And you could always build on Halo CE-3 that isn’t Halo 5.

We know it’s possible because people say Halo 5 does build off of Halo 3 (and Halo Reach and Halo 4 exist).

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> 2533274890331729;3272:
> > 2533274801973487;3262:
> > > 2533274890331729;3260:
> > > i dont see the point in Making Halo 2/3 Style game when we can already play it in MCC anyway.
> >
> > i dont see the point in making a Halo 5-style game when we can already play Halo 5 anyway…
>
> Building on Halo 5’s movement system and improving it wouldnt make it just Halo 5 tho. What do you want from Halo Infinite to be diffrent then Halo 3 but also be the same ? Or you expect something completly new but closer to 3.
>
> Its kinda makes more sense to have a more faster advanced Movement system but having as a Bonus some classic game mode with classic movement which is frankly not that hard to make so i dont think the game needs to focus only on that :smiley: and again i think MCC just has it and i cant imagine a new halo based on 2 or 3 which will improve it so much that i dont want to play Halo 2 or 3 on MCC (2A did improve on basic 2 in some way). But its possibl to improve on 5 in many ways i believe.

i would prefer a movement system based on halo 5 mythic arena. it is classic to its core but succesfully integrates advanced methodes, and makes sprint redundant.
a momentum based melee system could replace spartan charge and ground pound with a more emergent gameplay system. a slight wall bounciness could replace clamber and add additional gameplay options. having a +3% max extra forward speed ( that needs a few seconds to kick in) would additionaly fill the sprint- hole.

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> 2533274825160595;3270:
> Yes Halo 3 sold very well we know this, but Halo 2 a game with practically the exact same gameplay only sold over 8 million. Less than Halo 3, Reach and 4. clearly Halo 3 sold very well but that wasn’t because of gameplay if it was Halo 2 would have sold just as well.

At the time of Halo 2’s release, the OG Xbox had an install base of roughly 15 Million units.
At the time of Halo 3’s release, the Xbox 360 had an install base of roughly 13 Million units.
Halo 2 sold 5+ Million units within the first three weeks.
Halo 3 sold 4.92 Million units within the first three weeks.
Seems pretty similar to me.
The only reason why Halo 3 ended up outselling Halo 2 in the end is because the 360 reached total lifetime sales of 85.8 Million Units while the OG Xbox phased out at 25 Million units sold.
Meaning that in total attach rate, Halo 2 actually was more successful than its sequel.

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No way. I’ve played Halo since the the very first day and I have to say I always missed the option to sprint.
Besides, after reading the books knowing how strong Spartans really are it was refreshing to actually see the new physical abilities in Halo 5. I‘m no big fan of Halo 5‘s story but I have to admit that I like the abilities. Before Halo 5 you never had the feeling of being a super soldier. Seriously, you were just someone who could take more shots due to your shield and armour but the great and brutal strength of a Spartan never appeard (accept when you cracked a wraith with your hands).

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> 2533274834504968;3276:
> No way. I’ve played Halo since the the very first day and I have to say I always missed the option to sprint.
> Besides, after reading the books knowing how strong Spartans really are it was refreshing to actually see the new physical abilities in Halo 5. I‘m no big fan of Halo 5‘s story but I have to admit that I like the abilities. Before Halo 5 you never had the feeling of being a super soldier. Seriously, you were just someone who could take more shots due to your shield and armour but the great and brutal strength of a Spartan never appeard (accept when you cracked a wraith with your hands).

*Physical Disabilities, fixed it for you

First of all, we were moving very fast in the first 3 games to begin with. It just isn’t portrayed well in the games, due to the low FOV.
And I don’t know which books you’ve read, but Spartans are able to shoot and move at a very high speed.

But according to your words, we were not able to sprint in the first three games. So, let’s assume that we were just able to walk in the first three games - this means that spartans are not able to speed up 20% / 30% without letting their guns down? Wow. This means that I myself am way closer to a “Super Soldier”, than a Spartan in the last few Halo Titles.

Lore doesn’t support the Sprint-Disability from Halo Reach, 4 and 5, it is just straight up wrong.
People need to stop believing that we’re just sprinting if we shake our arms from left to the right.

3278

> 2533274825830455;3271:
> I made it. It’s just the information from old Major Nelson blog entries of weekly XBL activity in a graph form.
>
> The difference here is just the difference between annual UU, and weekly UU. I’m not sure how well annual UU catches popularity, since a player would only have to sign in on January 1st and never play again until next year, and they would count as much towards the annual total as someone who was active throughout the year.
>
> If you meant the yearly top 20 the whole time, I’m sorry for saying you’re wrong. I’m just used to assuming that when people talk about the XBL activity charts, they mean the weekly chart.

Thanks, never really took the time to go through every weekly top 10 and assumed that the yearly top 20 would reflect the overall popularity just as well (I mean, it’s not that big of a difference but still…).

3279

I’m just gonna leave this here but.
can any of you sprint supporters explain to us why sprint is just soooo good and is an absolute requirement for future halo titles and please tell me how a “doom eternal style” movement system won’t “fix” this “issue”
like stated before halo 2 and 3 were actually quite fast in terms of getting around the map but because the games fov is so low it gave of the illusion of turtle speed and for the record halo 2 didn’t feel slow one bit so again not seeing how this sprint argument even still holds any water. The issue is sprint simply isn’t halo and halo never needed or wanted it and for those saying it had to “evolve” are again arguing with no ground because halo was in a market full of games with sprint mechanics and still dominated the market and as for today we have DOOM being a perfect example of why sprint simply isn’t needed for a game to be fun or successful even in a market saturated with “standard” gameplay mechanics me personally the only reason people want sprint so bad is A: there cod players who can’t play anything different or B people who simply never played halo in its original form and have literally only played games with a sprint mechanic so they can’t adapt other than that I don’t see why people are so avid about sprint it’s a useless mechanic in halo Because the so called “problem” that people are saying needs to be fixed can be fixed with a simple base movement speed increase and FOV increase and I hate to be this guy but this is partly 343s fault for ever thinking it was a good idea to codify halo to begin with.tldr: sprint isn’t needed in anyway to make halo fast paced or fun doom csgo and the bungie halos prove this.

3280

> 2535407747275549;3279:
> I’m just gonna leave this here but.
> can any of you sprint supporters explain to us why sprint is just soooo good and is an absolute requirement for future halo titles and please tell me how a “doom eternal style” movement system won’t “fix” this “issue”
> like stated before halo 2 and 3 were actually quite fast in terms of getting around the map but because the games fov is so low it gave of the illusion of turtle speed and for the record halo 2 didn’t feel slow one bit so again not seeing how this sprint argument even still holds any water. The issue is sprint simply isn’t halo and halo never needed or wanted it and for those saying it had to “evolve” are again arguing with no ground because halo was in a market full of games with sprint mechanics and still dominated the market and as for today we have DOOM being a perfect example of why sprint simply isn’t needed for a game to be fun or successful even in a market saturated with “standard” gameplay mechanics me personally the only reason people want sprint so bad is A: there cod players who can’t play anything different or B people who simply never played halo in its original form and have literally only played games with a sprint mechanic so they can’t adapt other than that I don’t see why people are so avid about sprint it’s a useless mechanic in halo Because the so called “problem” that people are saying needs to be fixed can be fixed with a simple base movement speed increase and FOV increase and I hate to be this guy but this is partly 343s fault for ever thinking it was a good idea to codify halo to begin with.tldr: sprint isn’t needed in anyway to make halo fast paced or fun doom csgo and the bungie halos prove this.

The problem with the Halo 3 that people didn’t like is that you felt slow. Enemies running away looked slow as well. Even if it was because of the FOV, the point is it feels slow. That’s the main complaint. It’s not necessarily that we want Sprint, we just don’t want to feel slow. I hope that makes since.

Lastly, adding Sprint does not turn Halo into cod. Sprint is in a ton of games and to say that one game mechanic turned Halo into cod is so over exaggerated. Halo 5 played nothing like cod and if you think so then thats on you.

I loved all the Halo games with Halo 4 being the worst by a huge margin. That is a Halo that took too much from cod because of the multiple things that were added and took away what made a Halo mp feel like Halo.

Lastly, I would be down for infinite to have a really high base movement speed. Something close to Halo 5 Sprint speed but a tad lower. With maps made for it I think it will be great for classic and new. I also think thrusters should stay because it is a great way to have a quick change of direction that makes firefights that more entertaining for me.

3281

> 2533274820483063;3280:
> > 2535407747275549;3279:
> > I’m just gonna leave this here but.
> > can any of you sprint supporters explain to us why sprint is just soooo good and is an absolute requirement for future halo titles and please tell me how a “doom eternal style” movement system won’t “fix” this “issue”
> > like stated before halo 2 and 3 were actually quite fast in terms of getting around the map but because the games fov is so low it gave of the illusion of turtle speed and for the record halo 2 didn’t feel slow one bit so again not seeing how this sprint argument even still holds any water. The issue is sprint simply isn’t halo and halo never needed or wanted it and for those saying it had to “evolve” are again arguing with no ground because halo was in a market full of games with sprint mechanics and still dominated the market and as for today we have DOOM being a perfect example of why sprint simply isn’t needed for a game to be fun or successful even in a market saturated with “standard” gameplay mechanics me personally the only reason people want sprint so bad is A: there cod players who can’t play anything different or B people who simply never played halo in its original form and have literally only played games with a sprint mechanic so they can’t adapt other than that I don’t see why people are so avid about sprint it’s a useless mechanic in halo Because the so called “problem” that people are saying needs to be fixed can be fixed with a simple base movement speed increase and FOV increase and I hate to be this guy but this is partly 343s fault for ever thinking it was a good idea to codify halo to begin with.tldr: sprint isn’t needed in anyway to make halo fast paced or fun doom csgo and the bungie halos prove this.
>
> The problem with the Halo 3 that people didn’t like is that you felt slow. Enemies running away looked slow as well. Even if it was because of the FOV, the point is it feels slow. That’s the main complaint. It’s not necessarily that we want Sprint, we just don’t want to feel slow. I hope that makes since.
>
> Lastly, adding Sprint does not turn Halo into cod. Sprint is in a ton of games and to say that one game mechanic turned Halo into cod is so over exaggerated. Halo 5 played nothing like cod and if you think so then thats on you.
>
> I loved all the Halo games with Halo 4 being the worst by a huge margin. That is a Halo that took too much from cod because of the multiple things that were added and took away what made a Halo mp feel like Halo.
>
> Lastly, I would be down for infinite to have a really high base movement speed. Something close to Halo 5 Sprint speed but a tad lower. With maps made for it I think it will be great for classic and new. I also think thrusters should stay because it is a great way to have a quick change of direction that makes firefights that more entertaining for me.

so basicaly mythic slayer movement. i like it. in addition i would like to see a momentum based melee system return, a slight bounciness to spartans (for tricks an momentum usage) and a few extra percents of forward speed that automaticaly kick in after a few seconds of forward movement ( usefull for big maps, but not much else).