The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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I know this is a touchy subject, so, everyone, please be nice to each other. I personally think sprint isn’t the end of the world but I’ll explain why.
Some assumptions need to be made that can be argued if their valid or not.

Assumption 1: Projectile motion (H3 BR) is more fun and requires more skill to use. TL;DR You have to lead your shots, so getting a perfect kill is more satisfying (several other people can/have argue(d) this for me in other medias and posts)

A2: Games that have sprint must scale up the maps to fit the mechanic.

A3: Hit scan on smaller maps is too easy to use making the TTK (time to kill) significantly smaller.

A4: Projectile motion on bigger maps is too difficult to use and not reliable enough at long ranges.

A5: When a game is too difficult and unreliable, it is not fun. (Dark Souls is difficult, but not TOO difficult)

A6: You play Halo (over COD, Titanfall, Destiny, etc.) because its TTK is much longer. Otherwise you’re just playing a different version of those games.

Proposition 1: You can not have hit scan and smaller maps in the same game because of A3 and A6.

P2: You cannot have sprint and projectile motion in the same game because of A2 and A4.

P3: Because of A1, A4, and A5, Infinite needs smaller maps.

Conclusion: Because of P2, P3, and A2, sprint cannot be in Infinite.

I realize the biggest downfall to this argument is A1, but what this argument allows the community to do is to no longer argue between sprint and no sprint, but instead argue about hit scan and projectile motion.

Notice that you can have sprint and hit scan in the same game, so you’ll get a game like H5. I think H5 is good (at least it wasn’t as bad as H4 shutters), but not as good as H3.

TL; DR Projectile motion is needed = small maps = no sprint

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No classics movement for me its boring. The halo 5 movement was more challenging and interesting for me, cause you need to be more alert you can’t just challenge people cause you never know what scenario they have in store for you. I used to complain about spartan charge but with time i learnt how to dodge them with my spartan abilities by not rushing to someone who is also rushing to expecting him to stop and challenge me in a gunfight. All these mechanics added element of surprise cause you can’t predict how someone will react to your play style like in previous halo and also it allows you to getaway from awkward situation. By the way i have been playing halo since halo CE. As long the core element of halo are still in place which are: rechargeable shield, dodging bullet when in a gunfight, the sandbox physics and weapon on the map which you have to fight for am good.

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> > > > > > > > If sprint isn’t really needed or wanted or even considered a strategy to use when out gunned. Even nerfed to be limited or stopped due to damage. Why not hold that same standard to other mechanics? Lets say Sprint is the same as walking from point A to B just faster (not comparing remake maps from originals in older games).
> > > > > > > > . The same can be said for Reloading, the reload button is the same as empting the magazine then the game auto reloads. The gun gets reloaded either way so why have a reload button? Or since reloading with the button is an extra mechanic why not nerf it by taking longer if under fire suppression? Or totally cancelled if you take damage?
> > > > > > > > . Maybe the same could be said for jumping? What if you take damage as you jump? Could that knock someone out of their jump? Then people couldn’t “halo jump” as a defense while getting shot. Or why even have jump? Couldn’t the level designers make every level walkable?
> > > > > > > > . I’m sure there’s more nerfing or removal that could be done to the mechanics in the game, but why only hold sprint to a different stanard then all the other mechanics? Judge all equally.
> > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We don’t want nerfed. We want it removed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You missed my point. There are other mechanics like reload, jump, zoom, etc. That could be removed just like sprint. All the same points people use for their desire to remove one mechanic could be used to removed other mechanics aswell. The people trying to make some kind of justifaction for their opinion should use that same reasoning for all issues. Otherwise they invalidate their opinions from technical facts on gameplay to simply its what they want, and they just to be heard.
> > > > > > However if the same people that want sprint removed could explain why reload, jump, zoom should be removed aswell? Maybe I would accept that opinion more easily.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why shouldn’t we remove reload? Guns reload on their own when they are empty, so why the reload button?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If level designers want higher levels they can just use ramps, right? Why have jump?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If game designers just make a weapon like the sniper automatically zoomed in when its equipped. Why have zoom? Why have two zooming levels?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > H5 added seat switching in a vehicle. Why keep that?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A grenade switching feature, why have that?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If someone could argue these points to all be removed along with sprint I might cosider them to have justification in the points they are trying to make.
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re comparing a new, alien, and foreign mechanic like sprint which fundamentally changed Halo, to basic actions like reloading and jumping. This is the most desperate argument for sprint I’ve heard yet. I get it, not only do.you want sprint, but you want it how it was in Halo 4; sprinting around the map without consequences. There’s nothing wrong with your opinion. In fact, I’d rather 343 go all out and change everything about Halo like they did with 4. At least then Halo would “sort of” be it’s own thing, and cater to one group. It’s much better than mix matching like Halo 5, trying to please both crowds.
> >
> > At this point it’s not even new to Halo. Since sprint was included for quite literally half of the franchise’s lifetime, it’s unlikely and implausible that they’ll just remove it.
> >
> > If 343i have been listening, they’re probably looking into new ways to balance it that would (presumably) satisfy both parties, for and against.
>
> The only thing that would satisfy the anti-sprint crowd is to be able to move and shoot at all times, by allowing to shoot while sprinting you make the default speed worthless and the game feel clunky, at that point buffing move speed, strafe acceleration and field of view is the proper solution. Therefore there is no compromise. High kill times and cat and mouse gameplay don’t mix. The run and gun CoD style works great in instant killtime games, as sprinting is weaker than base speed, the opposite is true in Halo. Sprint is a solution to a problem a game poses, sprint was included in Halo to chase trends, not solve but create problems, it was done haphazardly. At least in Reach jetpack and evade kept it in check. Pull off the bandaid and radically alter Halo, start with the classics as a base and try new things, not undermine what was fun and underdeliver on new content.

Not to introduce a trend but to improve player movement. For example when people are camping for example the team which is losing is not walking to them but actually coming from different direction very fast which gives them an element of brute force. For instance when you stuck behind a rock because you took cover from a sniper the chance that he kills you when you rush out of your hideout by sprinting and sliding is reduce.

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> Not to introduce a trend but to improve player movement. For example when people are camping for example the team which is losing is not walking to them but actually coming from different direction very fast which gives them an element of brute force. For instance when you stuck behind a rock because you took cover from a sniper the chance that he kills you when you rush out of your hideout by sprinting and sliding is reduce.

Camping is a map design issue.
Entrances to an area is down to map design, you’re not automatically going to get more windows, hatches, doors and other openings to rooms just by adding movement mechanics.
And what happens when the aim assist on the sniper rifle aimed at your rock, is balanced around you sprinting and sliding?

> 2533274873198179;3123:
> As long the core element of halo are still in place which are: rechargeable shield, dodging bullet when in a gunfight, the sandbox physics and weapon on the map which you have to fight for am good.

And these are the core elements of Halo for everyone?

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> > 2533274873198179;3124:
> > Not to introduce a trend but to improve player movement. For example when people are camping for example the team which is losing is not walking to them but actually coming from different direction very fast which gives them an element of brute force. For instance when you stuck behind a rock because you took cover from a sniper the chance that he kills you when you rush out of your hideout by sprinting and sliding is reduce.
>
> Camping is a map design issue.
> Entrances to an area is down to map design, you’re not automatically going to get more windows, hatches, doors and other openings to rooms just by adding movement mechanics.
> And what happens when the aim assist on the sniper rifle aimed at your rock, is balanced around you sprinting and sliding?
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>
>
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> > 2533274873198179;3123:
> > As long the core element of halo are still in place which are: rechargeable shield, dodging bullet when in a gunfight, the sandbox physics and weapon on the map which you have to fight for am good.
>
> And these are the core elements of Halo for everyone?

i do understand sorry for me those are the core element of halo so far. In term of map design people will always complain about any change made about a game. Its always a blast playing halo 2 for me but sometimes i feel stuck in that armor after playing halo 5. If someone throws a grenade at you you can’t even move and you have to die no way around it, for me this was an issue that halo 5 answered by allowing me to dash a away and just take a bit of damage or even climb. Even Call of Duty copied Halo 5 by adding this without compromising the core element of their game and their fan are still supporting the game very well.

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> i do understand sorry for me those are the core element of halo so far.

Fair enough. Nobody wants to say your opinion is wrong or something. Just remember that to a lot of people, myself included, being able to shoot while running is a core element of Halo. H5G does not feel like Halo to me, not even in the slightest. It’s the farthest the gameplay has ever been from Halo.

> 2533274873198179;3126:
> Its always a blast playing halo 2 for me but sometimes i feel stuck in that armor after playing halo 5.

Again, just to give you a different perspective, I feel the exact opposite. 343’s games always prevent me from doing something that I was able to do before. Run and shoot at the same time. Move sideways and even backwards at max speed. Etc, etc.
Whenever I go back to the original trilogy, I feel unleashed. No longer do inherent gameplay mechanics gimp my abilities. No forcing weapons down just to run. No forcing me to look the same direction I’m running towards. And also (even though this is not tied to movement) not having to ADS evey second just to stop my guns from being useless. Not having to slow down so I can ADS.

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> > 2533274873198179;3126:
> > i do understand sorry for me those are the core element of halo so far.
>
> Fair enough. Nobody wants to say your opinion is wrong or something. Just remember that to a lot of people, myself included, being able to shoot while running is a core element of Halo. H5G does not feel like Halo to me, not even in the slightest. It’s the farthest the gameplay has ever been from Halo.
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>
>
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> > 2533274873198179;3126:
> > Its always a blast playing halo 2 for me but sometimes i feel stuck in that armor after playing halo 5.
>
> Again, just to give you a different perspective, I feel the exact opposite. 343’s games always prevent me from doing something that I was able to do before. Run and shoot at the same time. Move sideways and even backwards at max speed.

in which halo game were you able to run and shoot at the same time ?

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> > > i do understand sorry for me those are the core element of halo so far.
> >
> > Fair enough. Nobody wants to say your opinion is wrong or something. Just remember that to a lot of people, myself included, being able to shoot while running is a core element of Halo. H5G does not feel like Halo to me, not even in the slightest. It’s the farthest the gameplay has ever been from Halo.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274873198179;3126:
> > > Its always a blast playing halo 2 for me but sometimes i feel stuck in that armor after playing halo 5.
> >
> > Again, just to give you a different perspective, I feel the exact opposite. 343’s games always prevent me from doing something that I was able to do before. Run and shoot at the same time. Move sideways and even backwards at max speed.
>
> in which halo game were you able to run and shoot at the same time ?

halo 1, 2 and 3 have you running always (compared to marines) . in 3 the small FoV makes you feel slow. in reach the speed is lowered (and i don’t know about 4’s exact movement speed).
I’d like to see a 110% to 117% bms as standard for halo infinite without sprint. you would basicly sprint always.

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> in which halo game were you able to run and shoot at the same time ?

All of them before the introduction of sprint in Reach.

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> halo 1, 2 and 3 have you running always (compared to marines) . in 3 the small FoV makes you feel slow. in reach the speed is lowered (and i don’t know about 4’s exact movement speed).

Halo 4 at most has the same BMS as Reach, possibly slightly lower, there is some disagreement about the measurements.

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> As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?

you get around faster in the old games, there are plenty of videos demonstrating it. its just an animation that makes you think you’re getting around the map faster at the expense of taking away combat readiness.

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In my opinion sprint should stay as a standard in Halo. I never understood why it wasn’t used earlier back in Halo 2 and 3. I do love both games, don’t get me wrong here. I really feel like many hardcore halo fans expect the future halo games to play and feel exactly like the previous parts. Where is the point in creating new halo games then? It would only attract to people who are familiar with halo. I never understood that kind of thinking in the past tho. I’m not expecting any new halo games to feel 100% different than the previous one. But it should at least offer new features which aren’t too far fetched out for an first person shooter. Wether you like it or not, halo is and will always be a first person shooter.

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I’d love to see the classic controls and movements come back as optional. :slight_smile:

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> In my opinion sprint should stay as a standard in Halo. I never understood why it wasn’t used earlier back in Halo 2 and 3. I do love both games, don’t get me wrong here. I really feel like many hardcore halo fans expect the future halo games to play and feel exactly like the previous parts. Where is the point in creating new halo games then? It would only attract to people who are familiar with halo. I never understood that kind of thinking in the past tho. I’m not expecting any new halo games to feel 100% different than the previous one. But it should at least offer new features which aren’t too far fetched out for an first person shooter. Wether you like it or not, halo is and will always be a first person shooter.

there are many things that could be added to halo despite sprint and ads

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> > 2533274873198179;3126:
> > i do understand sorry for me those are the core element of halo so far.
>
> Fair enough. Nobody wants to say your opinion is wrong or something. Just remember that to a lot of people, myself included, being able to shoot while running is a core element of Halo. H5G does not feel like Halo to me, not even in the slightest. It’s the farthest the gameplay has ever been from Halo.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274873198179;3126:
> > Its always a blast playing halo 2 for me but sometimes i feel stuck in that armor after playing halo 5.
>
> Again, just to give you a different perspective, I feel the exact opposite. 343’s games always prevent me from doing something that I was able to do before. Run and shoot at the same time. Move sideways and even backwards at max speed. Etc, etc.
> Whenever I go back to the original trilogy, I feel unleashed. No longer do inherent gameplay mechanics gimp my abilities. No forcing weapons down just to run. No forcing me to look the same direction I’m running towards. And also (even though this is not tied to movement) not having to ADS evey second just to stop my guns from being useless. Not having to slow down so I can ADS.

Some great points about how shooters like Halo 5/CoD are not actually faster paced as some claim.

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> 2533274914515494;3133:
> In my opinion sprint should stay as a standard in Halo. I never understood why it wasn’t used earlier back in Halo 2 and 3. I do love both games, don’t get me wrong here. I really feel like many hardcore halo fans expect the future halo games to play and feel exactly like the previous parts. Where is the point in creating new halo games then? It would only attract to people who are familiar with halo. I never understood that kind of thinking in the past tho. I’m not expecting any new halo games to feel 100% different than the previous one. But it should at least offer new features which aren’t too far fetched out for an first person shooter. Wether you like it or not, halo is and will always be a first person shooter.

I must say I see things very differently and disagree that the sprint animation should be a standard in Halo.

I see the sprint animation changing how Halo plays and feels. When Halo added loadouts, advance movement, killcams, ADS style zooming, the sprint animation and so forth, it became moreless like every other FPS out there. Why would anyone want to play it when there are x number of FPS that are just like it. By changing how Halo played, 343I pretty much alienated almost all the original fan base of Halo. Why would a company do that?? That makes no sense to me. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate Halo 5 and I like it’s multi player much more then Halo 4, but I definitely like Halo 1-3 style better. Keeping the core gameplay the same and building off THAT makes WAY more sense to me as you will keep your fans and draw in new ones. There is a whole generation out there that pretty much hasn’t even played or seen an Arena style FPS.

Halo used to set It’s self apart from so many FPS because it didn’t have those things I mentioned. When I buy a Halo game, I expect it to play and feel like a Halo game. So for me that’s even starts, no loadouts, weapons are on the maps as pick ups, absolutely no ADS style zooming look, no dancing or anything, my gun is ALWAYS up being able to shoot and so forth. When Halo stops doing this, it makes me want to play something else. I like what people refer to as Arena style FPS mainly.

Halo should offer new features, I agree. Features are much different then game play though. Features like new game types, forge back when, customizing the look of my Spartan etc but the core mechanics and how it plays should be like past games because that’s what made Halo, Halo. That’s why I played it over all these other FPS.

I hate COD and fortnite, like honestly hate them. I’m not big on Battlefield, Titanfall, PUBG and Apex. I don’t mind battlefront but that’s just because it’s star wars and I just like hearing all the sounds and stuff, I don’t take it seriously at all lol :joy:

I don’t like these games, not because they aren’t good or well produced, I don’t like them because I don’t like loadouts, I don’t like how my gun isn’t always up, I despise the look of ADS zooming, I hate quick TTK, I hate having to build up my character just so I can unlock that gun that everyone uses, I hate getting beat by someone online not because they did some great play or anything, no they just unlocked that armour at level 50 that lets them take 50% more damage and I’m only level 19…and so on. I do like Overwatch though and anyone who’s played it can make the obvious connections between it and what I’ve said here to see why I would like it.

So yeah, Halo is a FPS, but it was an Arena FPS for 3 glorious games then completely change and it’s popularity dropped like a stone. It’s not the only factor as to why it did but it definitely is a big one. It should go back to that style and stay that style.

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> > 2533274873198179;3128:
> > in which halo game were you able to run and shoot at the same time ?
>
> All of them before the introduction of sprint in Reach.

Guys am sorry it wasn’t sprint, the Master Chief never run he was just walking fast. When someone in the comment said he was running faster than the marines. First of all he is an augmented human so its obviously that he will walk faster than marines. So we weren’t running and shooting at the same time in the first 3 halo games just walking and shooting.

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> > 2533274801176260;3130:
> > > 2533274873198179;3128:
> > > in which halo game were you able to run and shoot at the same time ?
> >
> > All of them before the introduction of sprint in Reach.
>
> Guys am sorry it wasn’t sprint, the Master Chief never run he was just walking fast. When someone in the comment said he was running faster than the marines. First of all he is an augmented human so its obviously that he will walk faster than marines. So we weren’t running and shooting at the same time in the first 3 halo games just walking and shooting.

Whatever your definition of walking is I point out that in games prior to Reach the Spartans are moving at 6.9 meters (22.5 feet) per second. Regarding the definition of walking itself, at least one foot touching the ground at any given time is a requirement in the standard definition of walking, and when this requirement is not fulfilled, the gait is regarded as running. (By “standard” here I mean the definition that is generally used when discussing animal locomotion.) If you look at the run cycle of Spartans in any of the games from the original trilogy, there is a definite moment when neither of the feet is touching the ground. Therefore, according to the standard definition of “running”, the Spartans in the original trilogy are, in fact, running.

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> > > 2533274801176260;3130:
> > > > 2533274873198179;3128:
> > > > in which halo game were you able to run and shoot at the same time ?
> > >
> > > All of them before the introduction of sprint in Reach.
> >
> > Guys am sorry it wasn’t sprint, the Master Chief never run he was just walking fast. When someone in the comment said he was running faster than the marines. First of all he is an augmented human so its obviously that he will walk faster than marines. So we weren’t running and shooting at the same time in the first 3 halo games just walking and shooting.
>
> Whatever your definition of walking is I point out that in games prior to Reach the Spartans are moving at 6.9 meters (22.5 feet) per second. Regarding the definition of walking itself, at least one foot touching the ground at any given time is a requirement in the standard definition of walking, and when this requirement is not fulfilled, the gait is regarded as running. (By “standard” here I mean the definition that is generally used when discussing animal locomotion.) If you look at the run cycle of Spartans in any of the games from the original trilogy, there is a definite moment when neither of the feet is touching the ground. Therefore, according to the standard definition of “running”, the Spartans in the original trilogy are, in fact, running.

I do understand everything you said but the feeling isn’t there, while in reach or H5 you can feel it so for me he is not. So i guess its a sense if appreciation depending on the individual.

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> 2533274914515494;3133:
> In my opinion sprint should stay as a standard in Halo. I never understood why it wasn’t used earlier back in Halo 2 and 3.

It was considered and tested for Halo 2.
They got some animations in but ultimately cut it from Halo 2 becauase they felt it caused pacing issues.
As far as I can tell, no information has been released on if sprint was tested for Halo 3.

> 2533274914515494;3133:
> I really feel like many hardcore halo fans expect the future halo games to play and feel exactly like the previous parts.

This has been on the walls quite a few times already, and it’s not a short explanation.

First; there’s a common idea floating around that if something should be removed, something else must take its place. I’d attribute this to those liking, say sprint, would want something of equal value back to replace what they’ve lost. While those who dislike sprint, see it as it is better having nothing, over having something bad. This often result in the scenario where you’d be displeased, and you put the responsibility of your happiness, on those with a different opinion than yours, to make you happy.
Now you’ve made it their job to come up with a replacement, and explain it well enough, so that you, most likely already biased against the same people you demand a replacement from, can from the theoretical explanation imagine how the new feature / mechanic would work, and what kind of experience you’d draw from it.

Second; In the event that someone actually suggest something, it is almost always looked over. No one actually cares in the end. That’s the reason threads with ideas extremely rarely go double digits in page numbers, and no, I do not count wishlist threads. I’m talking about a thread dedicated to a single idea. It’s difficult conveying a thought / concept through words and words alone, anyone who reads must be open to it. Then, what’s going to be discussed? The harsh reality is that very few are actually interested in what ideas others cook up.
Now, in the unlikely case that someone has commented on provided examples of what’s wanted instead of, say sprint, the response has been “it’s just Halo X.5”, and I kid you not when I say that it doesn’t matter what, or how many, suggestion(s) has been made, it’s going to be, Halo X.5.

Third: a lack of ideas are seen as an objection to all change. Dislike Sprint, and got nothing to replace it with other than an increased BMS? Oh you just want Halo 3.

A single post does not in any way convey what anyone wants from a game. No one breaks out their personal game design document the instance they’re displeased with something.

> 2533274914515494;3133:
> Where is the point in creating new halo games then? It would only attract to people who are familiar with halo.

I’m going to entertain this;
New story, new weapons and grenades, new vehicles, new maps, new game modes ( Both multiplayer modes and PvE modes), more custom games options, new tools to utilise ( like Forge and theatre for Halo 3 ), more in-depth customization. Improving what was succesful previously, for instance.

It’s quite amazing that we’re sitting here pondering what the idea is with a new game if it’s like an older one, when we have power-games like CS:GO, DotA, LoL which still manage to attract new players.

Attracting new players, what does that mean to you. Take it in, consider it, what are your thoughts around it. Are your ideas on things to use to attract new players, a reflection on what you yourself want in Halo? Do you think sprint is needed to attract new players, because you want sprint?

Halo 4 changed things up quite a bit with a lot of “modern fearures”, yet it didn’t go too well with the game now did it?

Perhaps lost at some point, but maybe the idea to build a good playerbase, is making a game which as a whole is attracting players, rather than chasing players with target features.
You do not win, by trying to be what you’re trying to beat.

> 2533274914515494;3133:
> I never understood that kind of thinking in the past tho. I’m not expecting any new halo games to feel 100% different than the previous one. But it should at least offer new features which aren’t too far fetched out for an first person shooter. Wether you like it or not, halo is and will always be a first person shooter.

And adding gameplay features for the sake of adding them, is pretty much what has led Halo to its current situation.