The return of classic movement mechanics?

[deleted]

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> > > You know, I feel there’s a simple solution to all this that would satisfy most, if not all parties: Simply increase the base movement speedThis would allow for the fast mobility people perfer from the newer games, while catering to those who simply want to play halo how it used to be. clamber is fine as long as it can only be performed on places you can actually get to, but other than that, get rid of the Halo 5 spartan abilities, as they have been nothing but detrimental both to map design and the core Halo gameplay.
> >
> > While I agreee with having a slightly faster base speed (and increased FOV), it’s all an illusion really. At the end of the day, the developers can make a map as large or small, closed or open as they like. At that point, the only thing that’s really changing is the size of the Spartans on the map. Movement speed is almost irrelevant when you look at gameplay overall.
>
> yeah, but being unable to shoot while moving at top speed is definitely a major issue for some. coming off of the original games, it feels like a downgrade when you’re unable to do so.

Absolutely. I wouldn’t deny that. I was more just thinking aloud.

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> > One aspect to think about is “strafing” . I feel that in H5 there is no true stafing in 1v1 gunfights, most encounters are determined by who has the quicker 5 shot and people use tactics like crouch shooting and thrusting. Older Halos 1v1s had more flow and since the Battle Rifle is a multishot weapon it allows you to stafe through each shot. The base movement speed is a bit too slow in H5 relatively to allow proper strafing engagements. Theres something too about a single circle reticule on the old B.R. thats allows you to move with more flow versus the preciseness of the H5 BR, or H5 magnum.
> > On a separate note I personally like sprint in the gameplay as well as thrusters and stabilize. I theorize that if Base Movement Speed is increased a bit and sprint nerfed it promotes more of a classic movement feel while still being modern.
> > Halo is a huge Universe and I think Sprint has to be in the game on some level.
>
> Definitely agree with your first point. If you play the new Halo 3 throwback game mode, you can actually see how much aim assist affects gun fights. I was always a below average sniper in Halo, but I can land crazy headshots and 4 shots against good players. You can tell the game is revolved around armor abilities, which makes sense since everybody’s thrustering and sprinting. And yes, the double reticle messes me up more than it helps. It’s a distraction for the sake of looking cool.

I don’t call H5 armor abilities, they are spartan abilities, Armor abilities were part of the inventory system.

No one calls them equipment in Reach or H4. Now sprint in H4 is not an armor ability. It is the first spartan ability.

Shouldn’t happen that’s all 343 should make there own vision and not Bungies Art style fine acceptable but don’t full on copy bungie, 343 need a legacy of there own, not follow Bungies shadows.

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> Exiting a spawn point when you are outgunned requires unpredictable movement. I’m not sure simply increasing the BMR would help that much. The answer is spawning in a safe spot (which needs a bigger map with more options) or having some movement mechanics to aid an escape.

You were always able to move unpredictable before these mechanics were introduced, but you also had the ability to return fire and keep the spawn trappers down, while moving optimally.

Thrusters have a long cooldown, clamber is basically only usable on suitable ledges, and is sprint really that “unpredictable”? I’d imagine a competent player would calculate the earliest time a sprinting player would arrive at a specific location if that calculating player knew the other player’s starting location. If the sprinting player doesn’t arrive at the rough time, that player wasn’t sprinting, and as such can arrive at any moment, however, that does not make sprint in any way unique in that regard.
I could, for whatever reason I had, in any game not featuring a manual speed boost, slow down at any point to delay my arrival, I could stop and wait, to delay my arrival.

Not to mention, I wouldn’t implement a global mechanic which affect all modes of the entire game, for a specific issue which happens in some matches in the multiplayer mode.

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> Small intense maps lend themselves to limited spawn points and one side dominating through ‘map control’. No thanks.

That would come down to the problem being the map and/or the spawn system being insufficient for the recommended amount of players on the map.
Alternatively it could be that the skill difference in the match up is sufficiently big for that to happen, which would be in the realms of the MM system which pairs the teams together.

> 2535410586881024;2905:
> Shouldn’t happen that’s all 343 should make there own vision and not Bungies Art style fine acceptable but don’t full on copy bungie, 343 need a legacy of there own, not follow Bungies shadows.

You know, i343’s first own vision of Halo was Halo 4, where every feature and mechanic introduced could be found in some way or form, in other at that time popular shooters, most prominently CoD. Keep in mind that they had made an early version which playtesters liked, which played like the “traditional Halo”, but to the developers it was “too traditional”, scrapped that and made their own version.
Halo 5 rolls out and, it had all sorts of issues, with mechanics yet again being one of the issues some have with the game.
Their legacy so far, is Halo 4 (CoD) with a multitude of PR hiccups and nightmares as well as questionable developer videos as far as the finished product goes.
Halo MCC launch disaster, Halo 5’s marketing campaign being so unrelated to the game it could very well have been for an entirely different product, Halo 5’s campaign, lack of content, and among other things, the mechanics again.

i343 was created by Microsoft to continue making Halo, it’d have been nice of i343 to say right there and then that they planned to make Halo which does not resemble what the fans were used to, in artstyle, game mechanics / experience and even sound design, because i343 wanted to make their own games with Halo slapped on top of it.
It has been “back to the roots”, “Halo fans will enjoy”, “Halo fans will be happy” and so forth.

Ironically to me, Bungie is almost only mentioned, or any of its titles, when someone pro-advanced movement, tells someone anti-advanced what they want, or when a person from the pro-group fails to understand that there aren’t many in the anti-group which are opposed to all change, and could see some of the new additions used in the future, or entirely other features and mechanics.

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> 2535469995091439;2901:
> One aspect to think about is “strafing” . I feel that in H5 there is no true stafing in 1v1 gunfights, most encounters are determined by who has the quicker 5 shot and people use tactics like crouch shooting and thrusting. Older Halos 1v1s had more flow and since the Battle Rifle is a multishot weapon it allows you to stafe through each shot. The base movement speed is a bit too slow in H5 relatively to allow proper strafing engagements. Theres something too about a single circle reticule on the old B.R. thats allows you to move with more flow versus the preciseness of the H5 BR, or H5 magnum.
> On a separate note I personally like sprint in the gameplay as well as thrusters and stabilize. I theorize that if Base Movement Speed is increased a bit and sprint nerfed it promotes more of a classic movement feel while still being modern.
> Halo is a huge Universe and I think Sprint has to be in the game on some level.

I’m sorry but I don’t really agree with your first point. Halo 3’s strafing was okay, but not that good overall and the problem was movement acceleration. Every time you start to move you aren’t moving instantly at top speed because you have to reach it first which takes an x amount of time. In H3 the acceleration is lower than, say, CE so in the end strafing feels a bit clunky, but you can still use it to shift your hitbox to the point where it gives you an advantage over not doing it.

Halo 5 has also an okay strafing, but a more responsive crouch allows to mix things up a bit more. I have no idea about the movement acceleration values as I couldn’t find them after a quick search, but they don’t feel that different. Overall I don’t feel like there’s a huge difference as you suggested. There are so many other reasons why you could feel this difference like projectile vs hitscan, hit detection, random spread in H3, etc.

> 2535426983406173;2908:
> In H3 the acceleration is lower than, say, CE so in the end strafing feels a bit clunky, but you can still use it to shift your hitbox to the point where it gives you an advantage over not doing it.

It’s been documented that Halo CE and 3 share the same strafe acceleration. See: https://web.archive.org/web/20140316222808/www.tiedtheleader.com/2012/11/16/halo-analysis-strafing/

> 2533274825830455;2909:
> It’s been documented that Halo CE and 3 share the same strafe acceleration. See: https://web.archive.org/web/20140316222808/www.tiedtheleader.com/2012/11/16/halo-analysis-strafing/

Wow this was a very interesting and surprising read. I always read that Halo CE had a faster movement acceleration and bla bla bla you probably know what I’m talking about. Any chance there is something similar about Halo 5 out there? I’d like to see a comparison with it too. This is very exhaustive for the games on the MCC I have to say.

It’s crazy how many facts we think as given are just an… illusion?

Also it’s a shame the video went lost, I’d have enjoyed watching it.

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> > 2533274825830455;2909:
> > It’s been documented that Halo CE and 3 share the same strafe acceleration. See: https://web.archive.org/web/20140316222808/www.tiedtheleader.com/2012/11/16/halo-analysis-strafing/
>
> Wow this was a very interesting and surprising read. I always read that Halo CE had a faster movement acceleration and bla bla bla you probably know what I’m talking about. Any chance there is something similar about Halo 5 out there? I’d like to see a comparison with it too. This is very exhaustive for the games on the MCC I have to say.
>
> It’s crazy how many facts we think as given are just an… illusion?

Unfortunately I don’t know of anyone having done it in Halo 5. Although I thought it can’t be that hard to do. I might try and see what I get.

Over the years I’ve learned that most of what people say about the movement and aiming in Halo games is anecdotal word of mouth, and therefore often wrong. Unless it’s backed by real data from the game files, or by in-game experiments, it’s good to take with a grain of salt.

> 2535426983406173;2910:
> Also it’s a shame the video went lost, I’d have enjoyed watching it.

If you’re talking about the embedded video in the article, it’s this one which you may or may not have seen at some point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se95M2ySzDI.

> 2533274825830455;2911:
> Unfortunately I don’t know of anyone having done it in Halo 5. Although I thought it can’t be that hard to do. I might try and see what I get.
>
> Over the years I’ve learned that most of what people say about the movement and aiming in Halo games is anecdotal word of mouth, and therefore often wrong. Unless it’s backed by real data from the game files, or by in-game experiments, it’s good to take with a grain of salt.

This is true, but some of us basically grew up with certain “facts” that sometimes you don’t even question them, when you always should like in everyday life. The thing that I found weird is that even though Halo has been so popular over the years some data, values, etc. are pretty hard to find or non-existent at all. While other stuff are very common knowledge and you can find so many sources about them. Anyway, let us know if you find/do anything about Halo 5 strafing speed, I’m sure it’d be interesting.

> 2533274825830455;2911:
> If you’re talking about the embedded video in the article, it’s this one which you may or may not have seen at some point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se95M2ySzDI.

Yeah, thanks!

> 2535426983406173;2912:
> > 2533274825830455;2911:
> > Unfortunately I don’t know of anyone having done it in Halo 5. Although I thought it can’t be that hard to do. I might try and see what I get.
> >
> > Over the years I’ve learned that most of what people say about the movement and aiming in Halo games is anecdotal word of mouth, and therefore often wrong. Unless it’s backed by real data from the game files, or by in-game experiments, it’s good to take with a grain of salt.
>
> This is true, but some of us basically grew up with certain “facts” that sometimes you don’t even question them, when you always should like in everyday life. The thing that I found weird is that even though Halo has been so popular over the years some data, values, etc. are pretty hard to find or non-existent at all. While other stuff are very common knowledge and you can find so many sources about them. Anyway, let us know if you find/do anything about Halo 5 strafing speed, I’m sure it’d be interesting.
>
>
> > 2533274825830455;2911:
> > If you’re talking about the embedded video in the article, it’s this one which you may or may not have seen at some point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se95M2ySzDI.
>
> Yeah, thanks!

I did some tests, and it appears that at 60 fps the maximum strafe speed is reached in 12 frames in Halo 5, which is consistent in a weird way with the earlier games, but essentially doubled since the TTL results were at 30 fps.

There’s a bit of uncertainty on at which frame exactly the maximum speed is reached because of some frame rate syncing issues, which causes duplicate frames in the footage.

> 2533274825830455;2913:
> I did some tests, and it appears that at 60 fps the maximum strafe speed is reached in 12 frames in Halo 5, which is consistent in a weird way with the earlier games, but essentially doubled since the TTL results were at 30 fps.
>
> There’s a bit of uncertainty on at which frame exactly the maximum speed is reached because of some frame rate syncing issues, which causes duplicate frames in the footage.

This is pretty interesting, so basically if what you found out is correct and I understood correctly they went with the same strafe speed even in Halo 5… which is consistent with the findings of the link you sent, so I wouldn’t be surprised. I wonder if they’ll do the same with Halo Infinite at this point? I’m kind of sad there aren’t more videos (other than “How to strafe”) on the matter since it’s pretty much a fundamental mechanic in FPS games and Halo, it would have been cool to see a direct and thoughtful comparison between games.

> 2535426983406173;2914:
> > 2533274825830455;2913:
> > I did some tests, and it appears that at 60 fps the maximum strafe speed is reached in 12 frames in Halo 5, which is consistent in a weird way with the earlier games, but essentially doubled since the TTL results were at 30 fps.
> >
> > There’s a bit of uncertainty on at which frame exactly the maximum speed is reached because of some frame rate syncing issues, which causes duplicate frames in the footage.
>
> This is pretty interesting, so basically if what you found out is correct and I understood correctly they went with the same strafe speed even in Halo 5… which is consistent with the findings of the link you sent, so I wouldn’t be surprised. I wonder if they’ll do the same with Halo Infinite at this point? I’m kind of sad there aren’t more videos (other than “How to strafe”) on the matter since it’s pretty much a fundamental mechanic in FPS games and Halo, it would have been cool to see a direct and thoughtful comparison between games.

No, what the result implies is that Halo 5 gets to maximum strafe speed twice as fast as previous games. I’d assume it’s deliberate, but the coincidence almost seems like an artifact of going from 30 to 60 fps, as if it was hardcoded to increment by a certain percentage every frame. But that’s just speculation. In any case, since Halo Infinite will be on a completely new engine, they would end up redoing the movement, and coincidentally end up with a different movement acceleration. I guess the holy grail would be to get it as a custom game parameter.

> 2535410586881024;2905:
> Shouldn’t happen that’s all 343 should make there own vision and not Bungies Art style fine acceptable but don’t full on copy bungie, 343 need a legacy of there own, not follow Bungies shadows.

Sadly the classic crowd don’t care about that. They want 343 to make a 1 for 1 clone of a Bungie game and thats it. Be it a clone of Halo 2 or Halo 3.

> 2533274795123910;2906:
> Their legacy so far, is Halo 4 (CoD) with a multitude of PR hiccups and nightmares as well as questionable developer videos as far as the finished product goes.
> Halo MCC launch disaster, Halo 5’s marketing campaign being so unrelated to the game it could very well have been for an entirely different product, Halo 5’s c

Halo 4 wasn’t COD but hey keep stringing that narrative also what questionable dev videos?

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> > 2535410586881024;2905:
> > Shouldn’t happen that’s all 343 should make there own vision and not Bungies Art style fine acceptable but don’t full on copy bungie, 343 need a legacy of there own, not follow Bungies shadows.
>
> Sadly the classic crowd don’t care about that. They want 343 to make a 1 for 1 clone of a Bungie game and thats it. Be it a clone of Halo 2 or Halo 3.

Agreed I think classic style 343 movement mechanics, simple.

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> > > 2535410586881024;2905:
> > > Shouldn’t happen that’s all 343 should make there own vision and not Bungies Art style fine acceptable but don’t full on copy bungie, 343 need a legacy of there own, not follow Bungies shadows.
> >
> > Sadly the classic crowd don’t care about that. They want 343 to make a 1 for 1 clone of a Bungie game and thats it. Be it a clone of Halo 2 or Halo 3.
>
> Agreed I think classic style 343 movement mechanics, simple.

I don’t want that. I like the modern playstyle over the turtle style that was H2/H3.

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> > > > 2535410586881024;2905:
> > > > Shouldn’t happen that’s all 343 should make there own vision and not Bungies Art style fine acceptable but don’t full on copy bungie, 343 need a legacy of there own, not follow Bungies shadows.
> > >
> > > Sadly the classic crowd don’t care about that. They want 343 to make a 1 for 1 clone of a Bungie game and thats it. Be it a clone of Halo 2 or Halo 3.
> >
> > Agreed I think classic style 343 movement mechanics, simple.
>
> I don’t want that. I like the modern playstyle over the turtle style that was H2/H3.

Yea but you have to think you are further in the future with in each halo game, obviously there is going to be thrusters and obviously they are going to be sprint. I’m a Hardcore Halo fan and I don’t necessary hate Halo 4/5 it’s just that those two games don’t bring me nostalgia and good fun memories like classics did I mean classics where my childhood.

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> > > > 2535410586881024;2905:
> > > > Shouldn’t happen that’s all 343 should make there own vision and not Bungies Art style fine acceptable but don’t full on copy bungie, 343 need a legacy of there own, not follow Bungies shadows.
> > >
> > > Sadly the classic crowd don’t care about that. They want 343 to make a 1 for 1 clone of a Bungie game and thats it. Be it a clone of Halo 2 or Halo 3.
> >
> > Agreed I think classic style 343 movement mechanics, simple.
>
> I don’t want that. I like the modern playstyle over the turtle style that was H2/H3.

So does that mean that you want infinite to be a clone of Halo 5? If wanting a classic Halo game means wanting a clone of Halo 2 or 3 to you, does that same logic apply to your preference of the modern style?