> 2585548714655118;2820:
> Adding some consequences to an action doesn’t automatically make it useless. Applied appropriately you are just balancing the risk vs reward. The drawbacks would have to be fairly substantial to punish you to the point where is completely unenjoyable.
The main reason people like sprint—if you listen to sprint fans—is that it gets you (or at least feels like it gets you) to combat fast. Guess what you can’t do if you make sprint eat away shields? That’s right, you either have to walk your way there, or wait a few seconds for your shields to recharge.
You see, the situation here is this: you have the people who dislike sprint inherently. They dislike it, in part, because of how fundamentally restrictive it is. You will not make these people any happier by nerfing sprint further. It’ll only give more fuel to their fire. Then, you have the people who actually like sprint for the aforementioned reasons: it makes them feel fast and powerful. And these people evidently hate waiting. They just want to sprint their way into combat as fast as they can, and you want to put speed bumps in their way.
Nobody likes sprint that actively discourages you from sprinting.
> 2585548714655118;2820:
> From a lore point of view… surely not being able to sprint at all is more unloreful (sic) then applying a bit of a power drain while doing so.
Considering no one’s arguing for not being able to sprint at all, from a lore point of view, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
The amount of people that want Sprint really scares me. There are so many YouTube videos explaining why it’s bad for halo. Hopefully 343i go full classic or full movement mechanics. Can’t cater to both crowds.
> 2585548714655118;2820:
> > 2533274833081329;2802:
> > The thing is, why are we including Sprint if we’re just going to add all these drawbacks just so you won’t use it? Why include the option if you don’t want them to actually take the option?
> >
> > People who actually do want to Sprint would just find it completely unenjoyable to do so. From an “expected game mechanic” standpoint, they’re being punished for doing something natural. From a “lore” standpoint, moving your legs shouldn’t increase the damage you take.
> >
> > It’s like the game is telling you “Go ahead and Sprint, it’ beneficial for you!”, and then when you listen it goes “How dare you, I’m punishing you for that.”
>
> Adding some consequences to an action doesn’t automatically make it useless. Applied appropriately you are just balancing the risk vs reward. The drawbacks would have to be fairly substantial to punish you to the point where is completely unenjoyable.
>
> From a lore point of view… surely not being able to sprint at all is more unloreful (sic) then applying a bit of a power drain while doing so.
I’m not saying Sprint becomes useless with those drawbacks, I’m saying that using these drawbacks as some sort of compromise detracts from why you’re including it in the first place.
Everyone talks about “risk vs reward” when it comes to Sprint, but people rarely question why this is something that is needed at all:
Why is this reward (going faster than the map intended) necessary?
Assuming we answer question #1, why is such a risk necessary to obtain it?
If you didn’t like Sprint before, you’re not going to like “super nerfed” Sprint because Sprint is still there and the actual issues weren’t even addressed.
If you did like Sprint before, you’re not going to like “super nerfed” Sprint because that thing you like doing is punishing you for using it when other games usually don’t.
It’s kinda the opposite of a compromise, now everyone dislikes it.
> 2533274826612929;2823:
> The amount of people that want Sprint really scares me. There are so many YouTube videos explaining why it’s bad for halo. Hopefully 343i go full classic or full movement mechanics. Can’t cater to both crowds.
Clarification: There are many YouTube videos attempting to explain why it’s bad for Halo.
I haven’t seen one yet that has convinced me that it’s an inherently “bad” mechanic in Halo and I’ve watched countless of these videos over the years.
While some of the older videos (going back to Reach) touched on a reasonable point relating to the ease of combat escape-ability I feel that the developers became acutely aware of those concerns and took active steps with the mechanic’s implementation in future titles to limit those concerns. Personally, I feel Halo 5 did a tremendous job at balancing the mechanic into its game-play.
Also, I 1000% disagree with you regarding attempts to cater to both crowds.
> 2775209234672000;2825:
> While some of the older videos (going back to Reach) touched on a reasonable point relating to the ease of combat escape-ability I feel that the developers became acutely aware of those concerns and took active steps with the mechanic’s implementation in future titles to limit those concerns. Personally, I feel Halo 5 did a tremendous job at balancing the mechanic into its game-play.
I disagree with that, especially when the average or even above average player will swear by Sprint being a viable means of escape.
Some people will go as far as to say that that’s Sprint’s biggest purpose, to escape fights or bad positioning. Despite 343i explicitly stating that their biggest problem is escapability, people will completely disregard their words and do it anyway…because it works.
> 2775209234672000;2825:
> > 2533274826612929;2823:
> > The amount of people that want Sprint really scares me. There are so many YouTube videos explaining why it’s bad for halo. Hopefully 343i go full classic or full movement mechanics. Can’t cater to both crowds.
>
> Clarification: There are many YouTube videos attempting to explain why it’s bad for Halo.
>
> I haven’t seen one yet that has convinced me that it’s an inherently “bad” mechanic in Halo and I’ve watched countless of these videos over the years.
Any video from Favyn. Seriously. The guy hits this topic right on the head.
An aggressive but entertaining video explaining why:
> 2533274833081329;2824:
> I’m not saying Sprint becomes useless with those drawbacks, I’m saying that using these drawbacks as some sort of compromise detracts from why you’re including it in the first place.
I guess I mis-read the tone of your post; “all these drawbacks… so you won’t use it… don’t want them to actually take the option… completely unenjoyable… they’re being punished… I’m punishing you for that.”
> 1. Why is this reward (going faster than the map intended) necessary?
Why are you going faster than the map intended? Maps would be balanced around the abilities at hand. If sprint is adjusted to have some sort of limit… then the maps would allow for this. It’s only a problem if you try and shoe-horn the current mechanics into 10 year old maps.
> If you did like Sprint before, you’re not going to like “super nerfed” Sprint because that thing you like doing is punishing you for using it when other games usually don’t. It’s kinda the opposite of a compromise, now everyone dislikes it.
That only holds if you continue dichotomising. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
> 2533274825830455;2822:
> > 2585548714655118;2820:
> > From a lore point of view… surely not being able to sprint at all is more unloreful (sic) then applying a bit of a power drain while doing so.
>
> Considering no one’s arguing for not being able to sprint at all, from a lore point of view, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
The context was replying to Vegeto’s post… as opposed to any definitive comment re: lore (which I imagine is a huge conversation in itself).
> 2585548714655118;2828:
> > 2533274833081329;2824:
> > I’m not saying Sprint becomes useless with those drawbacks, I’m saying that using these drawbacks as some sort of compromise detracts from why you’re including it in the first place.
>
> I guess I mis-read the tone of your post; “all these drawbacks… so you won’t use it… don’t want them to actually take the option… completely unenjoyable… they’re being punished… I’m punishing you for that.”
>
>
>
>
> > 1. Why is this reward (going faster than the map intended) necessary?
>
> Why are you going faster than the map intended? Maps would be balanced around the abilities at hand. If sprint is adjusted to have some sort of limit… then the maps would allow for this. It’s only a problem if you try and shoe-horn the current mechanics into 10 year old maps.
>
>
>
>
> > If you did like Sprint before, you’re not going to like “super nerfed” Sprint because that thing you like doing is punishing you for using it when other games usually don’t. It’s kinda the opposite of a compromise, now everyone dislikes it.
>
> That only holds if you continue dichotomising. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
You made a point to refer to the very successful maps of the original trilogy as “10-years old”. They were 5 years old when Halo 4 came out and players still didn’t like 343’s new maps and mechanics then. It literally breaks the constant flow of gameplay that was present in the original multiplayer.
Also no one I know has ever used the word “dichotomizing” before. I’ve never even seen it used in a book lol
> 2585548714655118;2828:
> I guess I mis-read the tone of your post; “all these drawbacks… so you won’t use it… don’t want them to actually take the option… completely unenjoyable… they’re being punished… I’m punishing you for that.”
I said the first part because of the sheer number of drawbacks that would be included to “discourage” Sprint, which is what the other person they were for. But it brings up a huge “why bother then?” when it happens.
> 2585548714655118;2828:
> Why are you going faster than the map intended? Maps would be balanced around the abilities at hand. If sprint is adjusted to have some sort of limit… then the maps would allow for this. It’s only a problem if you try and shoe-horn the current mechanics into 10 year old maps.
Because either the map is made for regular movement, which means Sprint is a speed faster than the map intended, or the map is made for Sprinting movement, which makes everything outside of Sprint slower than the map intended. Then it starts to affect the weapon sandbox, player traits, and everything else.
> 2585548714655118;2828:
> That only holds if you continue dichotomising. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
Because at the most basic point, it is one or the other. Sprint is a binary “It exists” or “It doesn’t exist.” There’s no “it half exists” unless you can provide such example.
We didn’t go with trying to please both communities when it came to something like Dual Wielding. It exists, and now it doesn’t exist. We didn’t make an arbitrary “a weapon and a half” to try and appease everyone.
Can you provide a realistic way to include yet remove this mechanic at the same time? You’re basically asking someone to turn left and right at the same time, and the cheeky half-way points like “look straight down the middle” ends up pleasing nobody.
> 2533274823912857;2830:
> > 2585548714655118;2828:
> > > 2533274833081329;2824:
> > > I’m not saying Sprint becomes useless with those drawbacks, I’m saying that using these drawbacks as some sort of compromise detracts from why you’re including it in the first place.
> >
> > I guess I mis-read the tone of your post; “all these drawbacks… so you won’t use it… don’t want them to actually take the option… completely unenjoyable… they’re being punished… I’m punishing you for that.”
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 1. Why is this reward (going faster than the map intended) necessary?
> >
> > Why are you going faster than the map intended? Maps would be balanced around the abilities at hand. If sprint is adjusted to have some sort of limit… then the maps would allow for this. It’s only a problem if you try and shoe-horn the current mechanics into 10 year old maps.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > If you did like Sprint before, you’re not going to like “super nerfed” Sprint because that thing you like doing is punishing you for using it when other games usually don’t. It’s kinda the opposite of a compromise, now everyone dislikes it.
> >
> > That only holds if you continue dichotomising. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
>
> You made a point to refer to the very successful maps of the original trilogy as “10-years old”. They were 5 years old when Halo 4 came out and players still didn’t like it then. It literally breaks the constant flow of gameplay that was present in the original multiplayer.
>
> Also no one I know has ever used the word “dichotomizing” before. I’ve never even seen it used in a book lol
Having a super nerfed sprint that punishes you makes sense. People shouldn’t be able to use sprint to rush around and get themselves into bad situations without consequences.
> 2535449554348038;2832:
> > 2533274823912857;2830:
> > > 2585548714655118;2828:
> > > > 2533274833081329;2824:
> > > > I’m not saying Sprint becomes useless with those drawbacks, I’m saying that using these drawbacks as some sort of compromise detracts from why you’re including it in the first place.
> > >
> > > I guess I mis-read the tone of your post; “all these drawbacks… so you won’t use it… don’t want them to actually take the option… completely unenjoyable… they’re being punished… I’m punishing you for that.”
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 1. Why is this reward (going faster than the map intended) necessary?
> > >
> > > Why are you going faster than the map intended? Maps would be balanced around the abilities at hand. If sprint is adjusted to have some sort of limit… then the maps would allow for this. It’s only a problem if you try and shoe-horn the current mechanics into 10 year old maps.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > If you did like Sprint before, you’re not going to like “super nerfed” Sprint because that thing you like doing is punishing you for using it when other games usually don’t. It’s kinda the opposite of a compromise, now everyone dislikes it.
> > >
> > > That only holds if you continue dichotomising. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
> >
> > You made a point to refer to the very successful maps of the original trilogy as “10-years old”. They were 5 years old when Halo 4 came out and players still didn’t like it then. It literally breaks the constant flow of gameplay that was present in the original multiplayer.
> >
> > Also no one I know has ever used the word “dichotomizing” before. I’ve never even seen it used in a book lol
>
> Having a super nerfed sprint that punishes you makes sense. People shouldn’t be able to use sprint to rush around and get themselves into bad situations without consequences.
It doesn’t matter if its super nerfed or if its normal, sprint in its self just for being sprint destroys the game because its not compatible with the Halo formula just like all the other abilities, in another game sure you can have them but not in Halo because it’s not like any other game, stop trying to please everyone because its not possible, its either full in or full out there is no in-between,
if they do go for a middle ground they will end up with a badly designed game and people who are pissed of from both sides of the isle
> 2775209234672000;2825:
> > 2533274826612929;2823:
> > The amount of people that want Sprint really scares me. There are so many YouTube videos explaining why it’s bad for halo. Hopefully 343i go full classic or full movement mechanics. Can’t cater to both crowds.
>
> Also, I 1000% disagree with you regarding attempts to cater to both crowds.
Let’s agree to disagree on Sprint being good or bad for halo.
How would having both classic gameplay and advanced high speed unhalo movement work?
Having a playlist for classic isn’t good enough, and having a playlist with advanced movement isn’t good enough for the new halo crowd. Half doing both is worse then going fully classic or fully Titanfall/Anthem/not halo.
<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
> 2585548714655118;2829:
> > 2533274825830455;2822:
> > > 2585548714655118;2820:
> > > From a lore point of view… surely not being able to sprint at all is more unloreful (sic) then applying a bit of a power drain while doing so.
> >
> > Considering no one’s arguing for not being able to sprint at all, from a lore point of view, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
>
> The context was replying to Vegeto’s post… as opposed to any definitive comment re: lore (which I imagine is a huge conversation in itself).
Welcome to the dogpile on this thread. it doesn’t matter if it was Vegeto, tsassi, Naqser or anyone else who is in that take it out camp. They are adamant to quash any support for anything other than Halo 3, and they got YouTube videos to back them up.
As the problem with this thread it is all or none there is no middle ground or compromise. I didn’t have a problem with sprint when it was part of the inventory meaning if you wanted something else like Hologram you had to switch it out. When H4 made it a default action (because Call of Duty had it and Call of Duty was more popular than Halo at that time) that is when it went too far into the advance movement. Further when Spartan Abilities made all armor abilities standard much like sprint the whole system went upside down.
Either way I wish we could talk about something more important, like how would playing as Elites in Halo Infinite work.
<mark>Do not comment on this post here.</mark> This is an announcement that has no relevance to the topic at hand. If you have something to say about it, you can send me a PM. <mark>If you comment on this here, your post will be moderated.</mark>
@Marinealver
That’s enough. If you feel like you’ve been treated poorly, you can privately contact the people involved, an impartial moderator, or whoever you want. This is not the place to express your frustration with people. If you want to discuss movement mechanics, you should discuss movement mechanics. However, you should understand that this is an open discussion, which means that if you say something, anyone else is free to respond to it, and that’s how the discussion flows. If you find that bothers you, then I suggest maybe not take part in the discussion.
> 2666640315087182;2836:
> Either way I wish we could talk about something more important, like how would playing as Elites in Halo Infinite work.
I understand that there is a major split in the community on this topic.
I’ve been playing Halo since the beginning, being 32 I’ve seen the game evolve and change.
Personally I enjoy sprint and Spartan slam. I don’t think it would make a lot of sense that our characters have been able to do these things in the last few games and then suddenly they can’t in Halo infinite.
I think that 343 are doing enough to try and capture that old school vibe with the art style they’ve teased. I do hope they keep sprint and other Spartan abilities in the game.
> 2533274820195416;2838:
> I don’t think it would make a lot of sense that our characters have been able to do these things in the last few games and then suddenly they can’t in Halo infinite.
To name a few.
Sprint could easily get a short simple explanation as to why “it isn’t possible” anymore.
New BMS is fast, Spartans are able to move as quickly as they can while retaining full accuracy. Going faster would severely damage their bodies.
> 2533274795123910;2839:
> > 2533274820195416;2838:
> > I don’t think it would make a lot of sense that our characters have been able to do these things in the last few games and then suddenly they can’t in Halo infinite.
>
> -Dual Wielding
> -Grenade indicators
> -Armor Abilities
> -Sword blocking
>
> To name a few.
> Sprint could easily get a short simple explanation as to why “it isn’t possible” anymore.
> New BMS is fast, Spartans are able to move as quickly as they can while retaining full accuracy. Going faster would severely damage their bodies.
“A new stabilization firmware in the GEN3 armor allows the wearer aim accurately even at full sprint. Improvements to the force multiplying circuits also enable the wearer to perform strafe and backtracking maneuvers without sacrificing speed, allowing them to keep sight on the enemy in any situation.”
