> 2533274825830455;2682:
> > 2535446427305943;2678:
> > If you want to be exactly 100% factual, Halo 5 and older (say Halo 2) are exactly the same speed at full sprint. In Halo 2 you can shoot, and do whatever you want without breaking top speed. in Halo 5, doing anything makes you slower.
> >
> > Enhanced Mobility is a Lie in 90 Seconds - YouTube is a good visual aide.
>
> This is false. The movement speeds of Halo games are as follows.
>
> Halo CE, 2, 3: base movement speed (BMS) 2.25 world units per second (WU/s)
> Halo Reach, 4: BMS 2.2 WU/s, sprint 3.63 WU/s
> Halo 5: BMS 2.6 WU/s, sprint 3.38 WU/s
>
> I can provide sources for Halo CE, 2, 3, 4, and 5 if necessary, as well as for BMS of Reach. The sprint speed of Reach I would need to recheck, but you get the point: the BMS of the original trilogy is definitely lower by quite a significant margin than the sprint speed of Halo 5 (and in fact it is lower than the BMS of Halo 5).
>
> You are a victim of a common misconception. The reason in the video you linked both players arrive at the same spot at the same time after seemingly taking the same path is that they didnât. Now, the reason is quite obvious when said explicitly: because Midship and Truth are not the same map. Crucially for this point, Truth is quite a bit larger than Midship, which is why the Halo 5 player takes as much time to move around despite moving at a significantly greater speed than the Halo 2 player.
>
> In terms of maximum movement speed, Halo 5 is in fact the third fastest Halo. In terms of base movement speed, Halo 5 is the fastest Halo.
Sounds to me, they took an already pre-existing map, changed the size, and named it something else, and called it a new mapâŚ
> 2533274794139417;12:
> > 2533274795123910;11:
> > > 2533274794139417;10:
> > > > 2535449076192416;9:
> > > > > 2533274794139417;8:
> > > > > Iâve been playing halo since the OG xbox but if sprint gone so am I. I canât go back to the slow movement of halo 3. If thatâs the case good bye halo I loved u so much
> > > >
> > > > What about the slow movement of CE?
>
> I hope not I canât think of a current fps with slow movement thatâs crazy that a lot of people want the H3 movement
What about Doom?
Edit: that didnât work as I hoped
> 2533274888477235;2696:
> > 2533274825830455;2682:
> >
>
> yes technically, but it doesnât matter because halo 5 maps are huge to accommodate sprint making the bms feel slow
I would argue that having an understanding of the facts matters so that we donât ascribe effects to the wrong causes. Iâd like this discussion to be well informed.
> 2533274859755618;2701:
> > 2533274985411302;2698:
> > > 2533274889489936;2:
> > > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
> >
> > No. As in the return of better designed maps and better gameplay.
>
> no one has ever been able to explain to me why theyâre badly designed other than pointing out how the design has changed in practical ways to accommodate the gameplay additions, which sounds⌠normal? and good?
When you give the player more options, it gives map designers more options to account for in any situation. This was a problem most prevalent in Reach, when Sprint wasnât a default ability. The Loadouts in Halo 4 still kept this as an issue, as not all players had the same abilities at all times. At least with the Spartan Abilities, there are set limitations to what all players can do at all times, which makes it easier to design the maps than in 4 and Reach.
However, we tend to find that the maps are stretched out to accommodate for Sprint, but the designers canât know when a player will be and wonât be sprinting. You donât always travel at top-speed, whereas you did in Halo:CE/2/3. So by giving the player more options, itâs more options to account for. Limiting all players to not being able to Sprint makes it easier to design maps. So theoretically, there would be more great maps. That isnât to say there canât be great maps with Sprint present, of course. Thereâs just likely to be fewer of them, because itâs more difficult to design them.
When youâre given fewer tools, you have to be more creative to get the most out of what youâre given.
If Sprint is coming back (which is likely) they should design maps around base movement speed, and then try those maps with Sprint. Then balance Sprint around those map designs. See how much Sprint really matters when playable spaces arenât designed around it.
> 2535419441797248;2705:
> > 2533274859755618;2701:
> > > 2533274985411302;2698:
> > > > 2533274889489936;2:
> > > > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
> > >
> > > No. As in the return of better designed maps and better gameplay.
> >
> > no one has ever been able to explain to me why theyâre badly designed other than pointing out how the design has changed in practical ways to accommodate the gameplay additions, which sounds⌠normal? and good?
>
> When you give the player more options, it gives map designers more options to account for in any situation. This was a problem most prevalent in Reach, when Sprint wasnât a default ability. The Loadouts in Halo 4 still kept this as an issue, as not all players had the same abilities at all times. At least with the Spartan Abilities, there are set limitations to what all players can do at all times, which makes it easier to design the maps than in 4 and Reach.
>
> However, we tend to find that the maps are stretched out to accommodate for Sprint, but the designers canât know when a player will be and wonât be sprinting. You donât always travel at top-speed, whereas you did in Halo:CE/2/3. So by giving the player more options, itâs more options to account for. Limiting all players to not being able to Sprint makes it easier to design maps. So theoretically, there would be more great maps. That isnât to say there canât be great maps with Sprint present, of course. Thereâs just likely to be fewer of them, because itâs more difficult to design them.
>
> Hopefully that makes sense to you.
i agree with the part about consistent abilities being important for the design, but in terms of âdonât know when the player is going to be sprintingâ, isnt that just an extension of the already existing unknowables related to player movement? how efficiently theyâll move through the map, if they stop to check sightlines and blind spots, if they beeline for specific weapons or not. sprint is just another gradation on top of that. not to mention that players could literally just most more slowly if they wanted to be cautious in the old analogue-only movement. I feel like this is just an evolution of the design, not a limitation.
and besides, its all well and good to talk about this as a hypothetical, but i personally have no issue with the map design in Halo 5. It has many of my fav halo maps, and they all play great with the mechanics the game has and encourage a varied use of them. it seems like a direct example of this thought process being flawed and gives lie to the idea that 343âs designers need some sort of handicap to make level design easier for them. they already seem very talented and creative, and it feels like they understand the game theyâve made.
> 2533274822068856;2706:
> If Sprint is coming back (which is likely) they should design maps around base movement speed, and then try those maps with Sprint. Then balance Sprint around those map designs. See how much Sprint really matters when playable spaces arenât designed around it.
Thatâs kind of like saying âthey should design the map around players not having jump, and then balance jumping around those map designsâ. Obviously, not quite as drastic, but you get the point. You canât just ignore a mechanic when designing a map, and then act smug when the mechanic needs to be rendered practically useless to not play poorly on the map. That sort of thought experiment proves nothing about the mechanic.
> 2533274825830455;2708:
> > 2533274822068856;2706:
> > If Sprint is coming back (which is likely) they should design maps around base movement speed, and then try those maps with Sprint. Then balance Sprint around those map designs. See how much Sprint really matters when playable spaces arenât designed around it.
>
> Thatâs kind of like saying âthey should design the map around players not having jump, and then balance jumping around those map designsâ. Obviously, not quite as drastic, but you get the point. You canât just ignore a mechanic when designing a map, and then act smug when the mechanic needs to be rendered practically useless to not play poorly on the map. That sort of thought experiment proves nothing about the mechanic.
The difference is that Halo was not originally designed around Sprint. CE - ODST didnât have it, and nobody was bothered by the lack of it because those playable spaces were designed in a specific way that played with the strengths of the base movement speeds of those games. Whenever you had to travel long distances with sporadic combat scenarios, you had vehicles. Halo 4 and 5 screw around with the way the game is played on a fundamental level, by designing maps that expect the player to be sprinting all the time, then forcing you to slow down when you want to shoot. This messes with the pacing of the game because there are two levels of movement, with the playable spaces being designed around the faster of the two. If you add Sprint to Halo 2, you get a broken mess. If you make those same maps bigger to accommodate sprint, you get constant slowdowns relative to map scale, when you are shooting (because you have to stop sprinting when you want to shoot), exactly like what you get in Call of Duty or Battlefield.
> 2533274803493024;5:
> > 2535449076192416;1:
> > There is absolutely no way this game wonât have the classic gameplay
>
> Thatâs purely speculation. Making assumptions like this is goofy at best.
>
>
> > 2535449076192416;1:
> > the oldest of Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
>
> I think the first part of this statement is biased based on the second part. There are plenty of older Halo fans that like the new mechanics.
Halo population counts indicate youâre referring to a small minority.
> 2533274859755618;2701:
> > 2533274985411302;2698:
> > > 2533274889489936;2:
> > > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
> >
> > No. As in the return of better designed maps and better gameplay.
>
> no one has ever been able to explain to me why theyâre badly designed other than pointing out how the design has changed in practical ways to accommodate the gameplay additions, which sounds⌠normal? and good?
It isnât a coincidence that since they added Sprint to Halo that the population and the popularity of Halo died off. All the maps in Halo Reach , Halo 4 and 5 are a complete mess and just forgettable honestly. The population of Halo peaked In Halo 3 which had the best maps , best ranking system, best sandbox of weapons and vehicles and NO sprint. Casuals please stick to campaign and fight Prometheans because clearly you donât know what youâre talking about.
> 2533274985411302;2711:
> It isnât a coincidence that since they added Sprint to Halo that the population and the popularity of Halo died off.
I assume that since you are so convinced that it is not a coincidence, you have very good evidence to convince the rest of us that it is not a coincidence.
> 2533274985411302;2711:
> The population of Halo peaked In Halo 3 which had the best maps , best ranking system, best sandbox of weapons and vehicles and NO sprint.
Those are some controversial opinions youâve got there. Such a shame that the ranking system, weapon sandbox, and vehicles donât have much to do with sprint.
> 2533274985411302;2711:
> Casuals please stick to campaign and fight Prometheans because clearly you donât know what youâre talking about.
If you have any intentions to stick around, you better drop that attitude.
> 2533274859755618;2707:
> > 2535419441797248;2705:
> > > 2533274859755618;2701:
> > > > 2533274985411302;2698:
> > > > > 2533274889489936;2:
> > > > > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
> > > >
> > > > No. As in the return of better designed maps and better gameplay.
> > >
> > > no one has ever been able to explain to me why theyâre badly designed other than pointing out how the design has changed in practical ways to accommodate the gameplay additions, which sounds⌠normal? and good?
> >
> > When you give the player more options, it gives map designers more options to account for in any situation. This was a problem most prevalent in Reach, when Sprint wasnât a default ability. The Loadouts in Halo 4 still kept this as an issue, as not all players had the same abilities at all times. At least with the Spartan Abilities, there are set limitations to what all players can do at all times, which makes it easier to design the maps than in 4 and Reach.
> >
> > However, we tend to find that the maps are stretched out to accommodate for Sprint, but the designers canât know when a player will be and wonât be sprinting. You donât always travel at top-speed, whereas you did in Halo:CE/2/3. So by giving the player more options, itâs more options to account for. Limiting all players to not being able to Sprint makes it easier to design maps. So theoretically, there would be more great maps. That isnât to say there canât be great maps with Sprint present, of course. Thereâs just likely to be fewer of them, because itâs more difficult to design them.
> >
> > Hopefully that makes sense to you.
>
> i agree with the part about consistent abilities being important for the design, but in terms of âdonât know when the player is going to be sprintingâ, isnt that just an extension of the already existing unknowables related to player movement? how efficiently theyâll move through the map, if they stop to check sightlines and blind spots, if they beeline for specific weapons or not. sprint is just another gradation on top of that. not to mention that players could literally just most more slowly if they wanted to be cautious in the old analogue-only movement. I feel like this is just an evolution of the design, not a limitation.
>
> and besides, its all well and good to talk about this as a hypothetical, but i personally have no issue with the map design in Halo 5. It has many of my fav halo maps, and they all play great with the mechanics the game has and encourage a varied use of them. it seems like a direct example of this thought process being flawed and gives lie to the idea that 343âs designers need some sort of handicap to make level design easier for them. they already seem very talented and creative, and it feels like they understand the game theyâve made.
No, because when you use Sprint, you canât aim. Sprinting is different to travelling at top-speed in Halo CE/2/3.
I literally said thereâs great maps? But it is still easier to design maps without Sprint being present, regardless of how great the maps in Halo 5 are. You can butter bread with a sword, but using a knife is just easier. Youâre interpreting what I said as a complaint about 343, which isnât the case at all.
There are several reasons why sprint is terrible for gameplay.
It diminishes the importance of good map movement - Being in the right place at the right time is important for any FPS. Prior to sprint, if you were in a poor position, there were no movement mechanics that allowed you to relocate and compensate for your poor positioning. If your team was in a fight but you werenât there, your teammates would be fighting at a number disadvantage. If your teammates pulled the flag or oddball but you werenât holding the right angle to cover them, they would likely die as a consequence. The point is, your poor positioning meant you (or your team) were penalised in some way. Sprint allows players to relocate to the ideal position only after realising they are in a poor position, often negating this penalty. Hence, in this sense, sprint allows for sloppy map movement compared to no sprint.
It diminishes the significance of understanding spawn control and makes breaking spawn traps obscenely easy - One of the most unique aspects of Halo is its respawn system, and at the highest level of play understanding how spawns work is essential. This means knowing where the spawn locations are, how to manipulate them (by blocking them) and hence predict enemy spawns after killing them. Prior to sprint, when a team gained control of a map, they could position appropriately to capitalise on enemy respawns, either to spawn kill/trap them, or to block respawns to allow the flag carrier to run on that side of the map. Sprint throws this into disarray. Being able to sprint off spawn means that in a matter of seconds after spawning, a player can be on the enemies side of the map, avoiding any kind of spawn trap or containment. This is BAD as a mechanic because it lowers the skill ceiling - If you die, you should be penalised. If you killed the enemy and understand respawns you should be rewarded. This was how pre-sprint Halo was, but changed drastically after it was introduced. The result was a scrappy fiesta, where people would sprint off spawn to all corners of the map, making the game far more disjointed.
Sprint is a get out of jail free card - Similar to the first point, if you find yourself out of position, such as an open space with no cover, and get shot at, you can now sprint back to safety. 343 attempted to fix this particular issue in H5 so it is less significant.
It negatively dictates map design - Iâve only read a few pages but from what Iâve seen, this issue has been covered fairly extensively by the comments and videos, so I wonât say any more on that except for the fact that it is a HUGE negative.
In summary, sprint significantly lowers the skill ceiling on several fronts, which is disenfranchising to players who want to play competitively but also negatively impacts map design.
> 2533274805175435;2714:
> 2) It diminishes the significance of understanding spawn control and makes breaking spawn traps obscenely easy - One of the most unique aspects of Halo is its respawn system, and at the highest level of play understanding how spawns work is essential. This means knowing where the spawn locations are, how to manipulate them (by blocking them) and hence predict enemy spawns after killing them. Prior to sprint, when a team gained control of a map, they could position appropriately to capitalise on enemy respawns, either to spawn kill/trap them, or to block respawns to allow the flag carrier to run on that side of the map. Sprint throws this into disarray. Being able to sprint off spawn means that in a matter of seconds after spawning, a player can be on the enemies side of the map, avoiding any kind of spawn trap or containment. This is BAD as a mechanic because it lowers the skill ceiling - If you die, you should be penalised. If you killed the enemy and understand respawns you should be rewarded. This was how pre-sprint Halo was, but changed drastically after it was introduced. The result was a scrappy fiesta, where people would sprint off spawn to all corners of the map, making the game far more disjointed.
This is actually one of the main reasons why I like sprint / enhanced movement.
Spawn control may have been a âskillâ⌠but it just takes the fun out of the game.
Classic Halo 3 style mechanics - Slightly faster movement - Thruster ala Halo 5 which should not recharge faster than Halo 4âs - Hover ability (toggle option included) - No sprint, No ADS, No Ground pound, No spartan charge - Undecided on Clamber XDHaters gonna hate
The modern sprint is just so useless in Halo 5, itâs basically just as fast the old movement speed (lots of comparison videos out there). If they implement sprint into Infinite again it should be MUCH faster to 1. be more useful, 2. make for faster games and 3. it would be more in line with the lore in which Spartans apparently can cross a hundred meters in mere seconds when they REALLY sprinted.
There was no time to stop. He glanced at his shield bar; it was completely drained, but it slowly began to recharge. He dodged and weaved back and forth. He couldnât take many more hits like that. âHurry,â Kelly said. He crossed the remaining hundred meters in seconds and jumped into a crater where there had once been a gate house and the secure entrance to ONIâs underground base.
I wouldnât mind the removal of Sprint, maps can be designed in ways where they are easily and quickly navigated through normal walking speed, however thrusters need to stay in my opinion. I think they provide so many more outcomes in firefights compared to what you get in Halo 1-3. In my opinion Halo 3 suffers greatly from how slow it is. Once youâve jumped in H3 that decision is set and most of the time youâre dead before youâve hit the ground, with thrusters I can boost forward, backwards, left or right each potentially allowing me to survive and outplay the opponent. Clamber is pretty useful when paired with thrusters but isnât a vital or necessarily important mechanic, for me clamber just helps with the annoyance of missing a jump but at the same time gives people a free pass for messing up a jump; take it or leave it. I just want to see a mixture, although I think enhanced mobility provides something I enjoy more I understand people have wanted something closer to classic Halo for nearly a decade now so I hope 343i is somehow able to create something that satisfies both sides.
All I know is I donât mind the Classic way making a return as long as its only in Arena Matchmaking then in Warzone have all the extra new style of gameplay. That way everyone is happy. If your a Competitive Player play Arena Classic Gameplay Experience. Then if your Casual fan that doesnât mind something different then play Warzone. Having both styles of gameplay is the best choice instead of one over the other.
I highly doubt theyâll completely abandon everything from Halo 5 and refer back to classic gameplay, they are likely to leave some of the mechanics from Halo 5 but will keep the gameplay relatively similar.
> 2585548714655118;2715:
> This is actually one of the main reasons why I like sprint / enhanced movement.
>
> Spawn control may have been a âskillâ⌠but it just takes the fun out of the game.
Iâd argue that the difficulty of setting up a spawn trap is attributed to how the spawn system works and map design, far more so than than what movement mechanics are in use.
> 2533274804280158;2719:
> All I know is I donât mind the Classic way making a return as long as its only in Arena Matchmaking then in Warzone have all the extra new style of gameplay. That way everyone is happy. If your a Competitive Player play Arena Classic Gameplay Experience. Then if your Casual fan that doesnât mind something different then play Warzone. Having both styles of gameplay is the best choice instead of one over the other.
First off, at Halo 5âs launch they did have something to say about the mechanics being used across the whole game, and that was âconsistencyâ. i343 wanted the game to be consistent through and through. Getting used to the game playing a certain way, only to jump into another mode and discover that it has different base mechanics, or lack of them, can be jarring. Imagine playing a racer with one complete mode being Mario Kart, and then jumping into another mode in the same game whichâd play like Forza.
Second, no, not everyone would be happy, competitive and causal arenât specific lists of items/mechanics required to keep that type of player entertained. Additionally, keeping the âcompetitive modeâ a watered down version of the full game, never allows the âcompetitive modeâ to be its own thing with its own new additions, it will never be the full version of the game. There are plenty of new things to consider implementing if you flush these ideas that there are âmust have mechanics for the game to sellâ.
