The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> For reasons, they’ll never say the phrase “Sprint will not be included.” Even if Sprint actually would not be included.
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> Saying that implies something is being taken away and is a clear negative, and people won’t like that - either they’re making a mistake now or they made a huge mistake in the past. They’ll either spin it to be a positive “Spartans are fighting machines that never stop shooting or fighting” (kinda like DOOM), or they’ll ignore it outright.
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> Things like Armor Abilities were never outright removed, Spartan Abilities were just the next “evolution”, even if the only one that made it across was Evade/Thruster Pack and Active Camo went back to being a power up again. Loadouts look like they were removed, but they were just transferred to Warzone and Arena had the “most finely tuned sandbox ever.”

I know they would never say it. It’s just frustrating. Thats why a gameplay reveal as soon as possible would be nice. And again, you’ve reaffirmed my point on why i don’t believe these features will be removed.

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> But again, what could ABL and RUN refer to? If enhanced mobility isn’t going to be in it, i would rather they just come straight out and say it. It would be better than all of this anticipation just to be potentially disappointed.

While I find this mildly concerning, I question how much faith we should put into a string of three letters that spends exactly a second on the screen among other pieces of text this early in development. Would the base mechanics be set in stone at this point? What was the motivation of whoever wrote these strings?

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> > But again, what could ABL and RUN refer to? If enhanced mobility isn’t going to be in it, i would rather they just come straight out and say it. It would be better than all of this anticipation just to be potentially disappointed.
>
> While I find this mildly concerning, I question how much faith we should put into a string of three letters that spends exactly a second on the screen among other pieces of text this early in development. Would the base mechanics be set in stone at this point? What was the motivation of whoever wrote these strings?

Sure, on their own you can’t say that it confirms anything one way or another. But coupled with the leaks i’ve read, and the fact that 343i didn’t remove sprint even when it made the most sense to (Halo 5), i’d say it’s a strong possibility.

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> > But again, what could ABL and RUN refer to? If enhanced mobility isn’t going to be in it, i would rather they just come straight out and say it. It would be better than all of this anticipation just to be potentially disappointed.
>
> While I find this mildly concerning, I question how much faith we should put into a string of three letters that spends exactly a second on the screen among other pieces of text this early in development. Would the base mechanics be set in stone at this point? What was the motivation of whoever wrote these strings?

Not to mention, if we go by “immersion/realism”, and take Halo 5 as a basis where thursters are the main component in pretty much all “abilities”, it’d be kind of odd to adress the thrusters as “Abilities” by the suit, as if there are pre-programmed actions in a suit of armor, which’s kind of limit the actions the user may think of doing other than the pre-programmed ones. That’s assuming it’s not a human error in thinking how it should be implemented into the UI for the user, or one of those “user friendly” things for the player.

One thing that did come to mind though was “ablative layer”, which may be a stretch considering the context and all, but ablative armor is a thing, and I don’t think it’d be impossible for a mjolnir to have an ablative later, which it checks the integrity of.

“Run” can mean a lot of things in terms of software.
Yes, sprint as an ability does fit the criteria of a “run check”.
But booting an armor could have a “run check” where it makes sure all programs are running as intended.

Stretching the seams of possabilities and wishful thinking, but still.

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> > > But again, what could ABL and RUN refer to? If enhanced mobility isn’t going to be in it, i would rather they just come straight out and say it. It would be better than all of this anticipation just to be potentially disappointed.
> >
> > While I find this mildly concerning, I question how much faith we should put into a string of three letters that spends exactly a second on the screen among other pieces of text this early in development. Would the base mechanics be set in stone at this point? What was the motivation of whoever wrote these strings?
>
> Sure, on their own you can’t say that it confirms anything one way or another. But coupled with the leaks i’ve read, and the fact that 343i didn’t remove sprint even when it made the most sense to (Halo 5), i’d say it’s a strong possibility.

Since discussing leaks is not allowed on the forums, I’m not going to ask you what leaks. But I do remind you that anyone can write a credible “leak”. They mean nothing.

I don’t see why Halo 5 is when removing sprint made the most sense. Halo 5 was born in an era when everyone was doing advanced movement mechanics, and it was aggressively pushing that type of gameplay. 343i was completely in the “we’re doing our own thing” mode and paying no attention to the roots of Halo. I’d say it makes more sense now than then, because at least now 343i seems to be actively looking to the past in terms of the art direction and going after the classic fans. The same definitely can’t be said about Halo 5.

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> Not to mention, if we go by “immersion/realism”, and take Halo 5 as a basis where thursters are the main component in pretty much all “abilities”, it’d be kind of odd to adress the thrusters as “Abilities” by the suit, as if there are pre-programmed actions in a suit of armor, which’s kind of limit the actions the user may think of doing other than the pre-programmed ones. That’s assuming it’s not a human error in thinking how it should be implemented into the UI for the user, or one of those “user friendly” things for the player.
>
> One thing that did come to mind though was “ablative layer”, which may be a stretch considering the context and all, but ablative armor is a thing, and I don’t think it’d be impossible for a mjolnir to have an ablative later, which it checks the integrity of.
>
> “Run” can mean a lot of things in terms of software.
> Yes, sprint as an ability does fit the criteria of a “run check”.
> But booting an armor could have a “run check” where it makes sure all programs are running as intended.
>
> Stretching the seams of possabilities and wishful thinking, but still.

These are questions I thought of, but didn’t bother to bring up. I agree that in-universe, referring to any component of the armor bios as “abilities” seems fishy for the reasons you mentioned. It’s kind of breaking the fourth wall, really. It’d either be poor thinking on the writer’s part or a very deliberate attention grabber. I feel like I should also point out at this point that Chief’s armor doesn’t appear to have thrusters. The protrusions are just the usual ones familiar from Mark VI that don’t have any obvious combustion chamber, a nozzle, or any way to direct thrust. Maybe it’s an artistic oversight, but if it is it’s pretty major.

However, I think “ablative layer” feels a bit far fetched. Maybe it’s not, but in the context it seems weirdly specific because other equally specific systems weren’t checked (e.g. shields, gel layer, etc.)

Regarding RUN, of course we had the “overrides safety regulators” explanation in Reach for Sprint, but I’m not sure if that explanation was used after that anymore. Regardless, if it refers to Sprint, then it again seems like the kind of overly gameplay centric thinking because 343i could’ve at any point decided that Spartans can actually run without needing some special system for it.

The check that all systems are running correctly seems congruent with its placement right at the end. But on the other hand, it’s clearly placed in a separate block with WPN and ABL, which makes it very questionable that the artist would somehow have been totally oblivious to how it would be interpreted.

To be honest, I can’t see it as anything other a joke, a tease, a troll. Because as said, I can’t see how they could not have been aware of the interpretation, and they of course knew that some people would go through the BIOS check frame by frame. It’s obscure enough and has enough plausible deniability that it doesn’t really matter how the final game plays. It’s exactly the kind of stuff you can put in to get people speculating without actually revealing anything.

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In regard to the HUD code, isn’t RUN kind of the opposite of SPRINT? I mean, running is what Spartans have always done in the classic Halo games. If the VISR codenamed something like ‘‘SPR’’ or ‘‘SPT’’ then it would have been a different story. The fact that it’s referred to as RUN, while 343 always referred to Sprint as Sprint in the past, is actually somewhat hopeful.

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[deleted]

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> I don’t see why Halo 5 is when removing sprint made the most sense. Halo 5 was born in an era when everyone was doing advanced movement mechanics, and it was aggressively pushing that type of gameplay. 343i was completely in the “we’re doing our own thing” mode and paying no attention to the roots of Halo. I’d say it makes more sense now than then, because at least now 343i seems to be actively looking to the past in terms of the art direction and going after the classic fans. The same definitely can’t be said about Halo 5.

The feature wasn’t well-liked in Reach and even less so in Halo 4. So it’s inclusion in Halo 5 was just 343i doubling down on a feature that they know wasn’t very popular. That’s why it made the most sense to get rid of it. Either way, this person claimed that they were talking about advanced customisation before it was announced. That’s all. Anyway, here’s my question: what if it’s true and they don’t remove it? What then?

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> The feature wasn’t well-liked in Reach and even less so in Halo 4. So it’s inclusion in Halo 5 was just 343i doubling down on a feature that they know wasn’t very popular. That’s why it made the most sense to get rid of it.

But that’s the thing, this far 343i has been very determined to do what they want despite facing criticism (see, e.g., the art direction which they also doubled down on with Halo 5). They’ve gone out of their way to distance themselves from classic Halo, but now with Infinite that has suddenly changed and now they’re embracing the legacy. Throughout the development of Halo 4 and 5 there seems to have been a strong culture of trying to aggressively make Halo their own, and only in the last couple of years (all after Halo 5) has there been a slow shift away from that.

In this context, it never made sense for 343i to remove sprint in the past because it is the symbol of new Halo. It is the most contested aspect that divides classic and modern fans. Holding on to sprint is only natural for the 343i that wants to hold on to their new Halo.

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> Anyway, here’s my question: what if it’s true and they don’t remove it? What then?

What do you mean? Obviously, people who were hoping for more classic gameplay will be sorely disappointed. I will lose most of my interest in the game. But if you’re asking what does it mean for Halo? How would I know? I’m not a fortune teller.

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> Halo 5 has a perfect gameplay, the best in the saga that is the only good thing he has. Halo infinite needs to have a gameplay that takes the goods thinghs of all halo gameplay

Very few agree with you on That

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I really hope the visor thing means nothing. I’m terrified that they’d actually consider putting abilities back in after so much of the fanbase has explicitly said they just want classic gameplay back.

I don’t mind them being optional for custom games like ‘That Halo PC Game’, but I’d definitely not like the game to be balanced around them at all or have them in standard multiplayer.

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This game has little to no chance of bringing back classic movements.

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> > > > If we have even starts, 4v4, skilled shooting rather than twitch shooting like cod or battlefield, a reliance on combining gun work, grenades, melee, map movement and control are what makes halos games to me.
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> > > Going by nothing but those things, you could just as well be talking about Gears of War…
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> > Even if, there is no denying that is the core of Halo multiplayer. I’m sure anyone would agree every Halo game should have these things
>
> I would disagree…some of those points might be part of what should be in a Halo game, but they are far from being the defining aspects, as I said, somewhat even starts small teams, skilled gunplay, combining gun work (I assume you are talking about using different weapon pick-up?), grenades, melee, map movement and control are key features of Gears as well but I’d never consider Gears and Halo to be the same…
> You working definition does not work…

Sorry but to say melee and grenades are a huge importance in gears is a bit of a stretch. All the skills that were needed to play Halo 1-3 were still very much needed in Halo 5. The new movement did not change that but only gave us more decisions that need to be made. I would still like to see Spartan charge removed and ground pound for me is 50/50 due to it being too difficult to pull off that the vast majority who play don’t even use it. I still want everything else to stay. Now I’m not saying I dislike the old movement. I did like and still like it as well but I now prefer to have tweaks to the Halo 5 system.

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> > > > > If we have even starts, 4v4, skilled shooting rather than twitch shooting like cod or battlefield, a reliance on combining gun work, grenades, melee, map movement and control are what makes halos games to me.
> > > >
> > > > Going by nothing but those things, you could just as well be talking about Gears of War…
> > >
> > > Even if, there is no denying that is the core of Halo multiplayer. I’m sure anyone would agree every Halo game should have these things
> >
> > I would disagree…some of those points might be part of what should be in a Halo game, but they are far from being the defining aspects, as I said, somewhat even starts small teams, skilled gunplay, combining gun work (I assume you are talking about using different weapon pick-up?), grenades, melee, map movement and control are key features of Gears as well but I’d never consider Gears and Halo to be the same…
> > You working definition does not work…
>
> Sorry but to say melee and grenades are a huge importance in gears is a bit of a stretch. All the skills that were needed to play Halo 1-3 were still very much needed in Halo 5. The new movement did not change that but only gave us more decisions that need to be made. I would still like to see Spartan charge removed and ground pound for me is 50/50 due to it being too difficult to pull off that the vast majority who play don’t even use it. I still want everything else to stay. Now I’m not saying I dislike the old movement. I did like and still like it as well but I now prefer to have tweaks to the Halo 5 system.

You could argue that there is a case of “Does there need to be a decision for X scenario?” If there is such a minute difference in enjoyment between whether it exists or not, and we are perfectly capable of designing both decisions in one action, why does it need to be split?

For example, every time I’m told that there needs to be a “Tactical” difference between combat readiness and faster movement, all I think is “why?” More options on a minute to minute basis isn’t always a good thing (more often than not it’s a bad thing, because you’re being too complex over too deep) and even the game itself doesn’t believe you should have that option, because once you’re in combat, you can’t switch to faster movement anymore.

And Spartan Charge & Ground Pound are themselves more decisions for the player to use, and the latter even has a very visible risk-reward system that people say is the reason Sprint needs to say. But what makes them different in the sense that those two are the ones that need to be removed?

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Why do some people say traditional gameplay has no chance of coming back? I have many issues with how 343i has handled the franchise but I can not at any point say that they don’t listen to fan feedback. It’s possible Halo Infinite might play exactly like Halo 5, but the fanbase is so split on it and 343 is obviously listening very closely I don’t see at all how anybody could brush it off completely like that. It’s closer to a 50/50 chance if anything, and while I’m not that willing to compromise on abilities I know many are so I’d say there’s a very high chance if it does come back it won’t be in the same form (some, like spartan charge, will probably be cut.)

The artstyle, split-screen and everything else 343 has stated should be proof enough that they aren’t going into this game with the exact same mindset as with 5.

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Classic was fun, and is fun. But I prefer having the option to sprint. It sounds weird to say, but it helps immerse. I play a super soldier why can I not sprint? I started off loving the ground pound and charge abilities. Halo 5 took a huge leap for me in making my character actually feel like a super soldier Spartan. I could leave the shoulder charge and personally don’t care for ground pound. But I do like sprint.

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> Classic was fun, and is fun. But I prefer having the option to sprint. It sounds weird to say, but it helps immerse. I play a super soldier why can I not sprint? I started off loving the ground pound and charge abilities. Halo 5 took a huge leap for me in making my character actually feel like a super soldier Spartan. I could leave the shoulder charge and personally don’t care for ground pound. But I do like sprint.

Wouldn’t Spartan Charge & Ground Pound be just as immersive as Sprint for this “super soldier”?

For these people who are wearing durable armor, why should they not be able to throw all their weight into everything they run into?

If we’re talking immersion, why do we always stop halfway if more of it is apparently good?

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> > Classic was fun, and is fun. But I prefer having the option to sprint. It sounds weird to say, but it helps immerse. I play a super soldier why can I not sprint? I started off loving the ground pound and charge abilities. Halo 5 took a huge leap for me in making my character actually feel like a super soldier Spartan. I could leave the shoulder charge and personally don’t care for ground pound. But I do like sprint.
>
> Wouldn’t Spartan Charge & Ground Pound be just as immersive as Sprint for this “super soldier”?
>
> For these people who are wearing durable armor, why should they not be able to throw all their weight into everything they run into?
>
> If we’re talking immersion, why do we always stop halfway if more of it is apparently good?

I started off loving those as they DID give a more super soldier feeling. But I also get why people dislike those, and if I had to pick, I would lose those over sprint.

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> > > > > > If we have even starts, 4v4, skilled shooting rather than twitch shooting like cod or battlefield, a reliance on combining gun work, grenades, melee, map movement and control are what makes halos games to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Going by nothing but those things, you could just as well be talking about Gears of War…
> > > >
> > > > Even if, there is no denying that is the core of Halo multiplayer. I’m sure anyone would agree every Halo game should have these things
> > >
> > > I would disagree…some of those points might be part of what should be in a Halo game, but they are far from being the defining aspects, as I said, somewhat even starts small teams, skilled gunplay, combining gun work (I assume you are talking about using different weapon pick-up?), grenades, melee, map movement and control are key features of Gears as well but I’d never consider Gears and Halo to be the same…
> > > You working definition does not work…
> >
> > Sorry but to say melee and grenades are a huge importance in gears is a bit of a stretch. All the skills that were needed to play Halo 1-3 were still very much needed in Halo 5. The new movement did not change that but only gave us more decisions that need to be made. I would still like to see Spartan charge removed and ground pound for me is 50/50 due to it being too difficult to pull off that the vast majority who play don’t even use it. I still want everything else to stay. Now I’m not saying I dislike the old movement. I did like and still like it as well but I now prefer to have tweaks to the Halo 5 system.
>
> You could argue that there is a case of “Does there need to be a decision for X scenario?” If there is such a minute difference in enjoyment between whether it exists or not, and we are perfectly capable of designing both decisions in one action, why does it need to be split?
>
> For example, every time I’m told that there needs to be a “Tactical” difference between combat readiness and faster movement, all I think is “why?” More options on a minute to minute basis isn’t always a good thing (more often than not it’s a bad thing, because you’re being too complex over too deep) and even the game itself doesn’t believe you should have that option, because once you’re in combat, you can’t switch to faster movement anymore.
>
> And Spartan Charge & Ground Pound are themselves more decisions for the player to use, and the latter even has a very visible risk-reward system that people say is the reason Sprint needs to say. But what makes them different in the sense that those two are the ones that need to be removed?

I see what you mean and it makes since but I do not see the new movement to be more complex rather than deep. While clamber can be useful for many players there are many jumps that don’t need it and you can benefit from. It is not a night and day difference but it rewards players who take the time to know how to avoid using it. At the same time it is still inviting to a casual player. Just as there was crouch jumping before there are similar jumps that use it still and some also require stabilization. Is it needed in the game, no, can it be useful for those who learn it, yes. These to me are just build ups to what we had in Halo 1-3. Sprint is seldomly used because sprinting all the time makes you an easy target. It’s used to get into combat or go to aid a teammate. You could argue then why have it at all which is fine. I still think having that option is good without having to make incredibly hard decisions. Knowing a map helps because there are areas where Sprint is easy due to different sight lines. There is a risk reward with Sprint and to me that is fine. I like the extra thought I have to put into using it carefully.

Spartan charge is too powerful. Here is why in my opinion. A bad use of Sprint can easily be corrected by Spartan charge. It takes down your shield and it’s hotbox is too big. It is an escape goat for people using Sprint poorly. It’s rewards are far out wieghing it’s risks. As for ground pound I am split 50/50 on it. I think it’s balanced thus far and adds a little to the game. It’s the one ability I feel we have not seen it’s full potential yet. Whether it stays or goes does not bother me.

Overall I don’t feel that the new movement is overly complex without being deep but really the opposite. For me it is an extension of what I loved in Halo 1-3. Can there be tweaking, off course. I feel most likely we will get something between the new and old movement with infinite. Thrusters will stay im sure but the rest is up for grabs. Sprint will either return or we will bet a bump in base movement speed. Time will tell