I think we’ll see a refined version of the h5 mechanics. A toned down version of the thrusters, instead of using it to get to vantage points it could be used only for quick cover or breaking someone’s ankles
Some mechanics I hate in Halo 5 is the hovering and dashes. How I hate these dashes. The enemy is in front of you, you put the trigger but they avoid instantly. I don’t have any problems with sprint.
I think they can put big jumps without dodging in the air with effetcs of propulsion from the armors. Sprint can be used or speed twice the basic movements. I think they can put to shot the gun even if they’re running. That’s what i have in mind. The executions could be like doom when the enemy is fragile, to finish them off. That will make kills more faster and more competitive without the game being so unbalanced
if sprint makes it into this game then 343i has learned nothing at all
> 2533274825830455;229:
> > 2535444702990491;225:
> > But maps were smaller than they are today and technology limited developers with the amount of players that could even fit into MP maps. When Halo 3 came out maps got larger but without sprint players were forced to rely on vehicles to get across the maps which meant one BMS became restrictive and even boring for players (particularly with larger expanses of space).
>
> Do you happen to have any data to support this claim? If not, then it’s just meaningless speculation not founded in reality.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535444702990491;225:
> > It’s absolutely ridiculous for anyone to suggest that sprint somehow contributed to declining sales in future Halo titles. Anti sprinters present that idea as a self-serving bias; relying on deductive reasoning which cannot be proven in any way because (ultimately) it’s untrue…
>
> I can’t take you any more seriously than someone claiming that sprint is the sole reason for the decline in sales. Both represent highly emotionally biased views that don’t have any factual basis. One believes that because they like sprint, so must everyone else, apart from a small minority, while the other believes that everyone dislikes sprint with the same intesity as they do, apart from a small minority.
>
> **The truth is that there is no way to determine how significant the impact of sprint has been on the declien in sales. There never will be, because one can always attribute changes in popularity to other differences.**You’re free to try to drag anti-sprinters through the mud, but it doesn’t give any credence to your arguments. At most it makes you look like the kind of person who likes to drag others through the mud.
You can always do a survay targeting the effect of one specific factor (in this case sprint) to one specific outcome (sales). So I disagree; this is one way to determine if sprint had an impact on sales or not. It might not show how significant the impact is but it will, at least, show if there is an impact.
I’m not saying that it does or doesn’t; I’m saying that there is a way to find out.
> 2533275013370605;234:
> > 2535445636212194;231:
> > > 2533275013370605;226:
> > > > 2535445636212194;223:
> > > > > 2533274963936070;221:
> > > > > To be honest, I like classic Halo mechanics but would probably not enjoy them as much nowadays.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprint has become an essential component of most FPS games and Halo is not an exception. Also, sprint in Halo 5 was good because it stops shield recovery as long as you sprint thus not allowing players to run away from fights without a penalty.
> > > > >
> > > > > What I think sprint affected negatively in Halo is map design as it is clear that maps in Halo 5 are more norrow with less open areas compared to previous games without sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other spartan abilities, imo, should not be in future Halo games, ESPECIALLY SPARTAN CHARGE, as they alter the use of movements unique to Halo, such as crouch jumping which has less use in Halo 5 than in previous Halo games due to clamber.
> > > >
> > > > What about Counter-Strike and Overwatch, two of the most popular FPS games for eSports? I’d add Rainbow Six: Siege since sprint is rarely used competitively, but sprint is a part of the game. As for overall popularity, Crossfire (a free to play CS clone) is up there due to the Chinese and Korean market. Hell, even the Doom remake did pretty well, considering the idea of Doom 4 being dead for almost a decade and multiplayer being messed up. I’m not sure about Quake, but people seem to still be interested judging off of Bethesda’s admittedly cringey E3 Conference.
> > > >
> > > > I’d argue most people don’t really care about sprint, as long as the game makes sense with or without it.
>
> - You can sprint in real life why shouldn’t you in a game? You can clamber over obstacles why shouldn’t you in a game? - However the question of whether these changes are good or well implemented is another matter entirely. - The problem with games like Halo, and as we have experienced, when the developers try to introduce new aspects of the game in an effort to update, evolve or bring in new fans and audience their older fans usually have a negative reaction to this change. - Regardless all of this doesn’t change the fact that we have no idea what 343 has planned regarding Halo Infinite. - I would be extremely surprised if they went back to a classic style and I anticipate more of a hybrid system with only some Abilities making a return in one form or another.
1- It’s never a good thing to say you can do x in real life, why can’t you in a video game in my opinion. In real life I can run and shoot a gun, why can’t I in Halo? In real life I can lie flat on my stomach and shoot a gun, why can’t I in Halo? See what im getting at? Using real life comparisons to video games is dumb I feel, unless you’re building a game that is supposed to be as realistic as possible. Halo is far from being realistic as I’m sure we all can agree. First and foremost video games should be fun first.
2- This very true. I just know that the more mechanics you have in a game,the harder it is to make it balanced, make it flow good, etc. There’s something to be said for simpler mechanics sometimes.
3- True…to a point. Fans generally have negative reactions because they’re trying to change the game so much that it doesn’t even play like the game they used to know at all. Reach started it and 4 really took it to the next level. Halo 5 definitely brought some things back to earth which was good, but did a bunch of things that were very questionable. Despite what a lot of pro sprint players think, people who don’t like Sprint don’t want another Halo 1 2 or 3 Clone. They are all for different things being added and that can include mechanics. Most people don’t have a huge problem for example with some form of thrusters or clamber. Look at Halo 1,2 and 3 all played similar but each one added new things to it and for the most part the majority of fans liked it. Some fans didn’t for sure, but the majority did, case in point the popularity and sales kept going up.
4- Agreed!
5- Also agree moreless. I wouldn’t be extremely surprised but somewhat. I would be however very impressed that they had the guts to do it.
Halos multiplayer is more of an Arena FPS, again I think we can all agree on that. So to me, it should play like one. My point and others is 343I have made a few Halo games now with the sprint animation. They’ve adding things that were very non Arena FPS/Halo. Most of it didn’t work at all and were horrible!! some of it wasn’t bad though, and some of it was implemented pretty decent even, but even after all this the Halo games has continued to go down in sales and popularity, so why not make a Halo game that doesn’t have the sprint animation again? What do they have to loose? There are some people that probably wouldn’t play new Halo game without the sprint animation sure… but I would argue that there are a lot of people out there that aren’t playing Halo right now that would be seriously interested in a Halo game that doesn’t have a sprint animation. If they did make a game without the the Sprint animation and the game as a whole was good, no bad launches or anything like this and it still didn’t do as good I say Halo 5, well then at least 343I can say “we tried it, and it didn’t work” but I would be seriously shocked if it didn’t do at least as good as Halo games with a sprint animation.
Myself, as well as many others and I suspect yourself will at least check out and most likely buy Halo 6. If we like it or not, who knows…
I can tell your not ain’t this or that so much, just saying what you think, as am I and others and I know you know this. I’m not attacking you or anything just bringing up points.
To me though, Halo is supposed to be the face of Xbox. When the face of your console isn’t even in the top 5 or 10 games being played or in sales for your console …to me that’s a major problem and something needs to change.
> 2533274815533909;240:
> > 2533275013370605;226:
> > > 2535464451695009;223:
> > > > 2533274963936070;221:
> > > > To be honest, I like classic Halo mechanics but would probably not enjoy them as much nowadays.
> > > >
> > > > Sprint has become an essential component of most FPS games and Halo is not an exception. Also, sprint in Halo 5 was good because it stops shield recovery as long as you sprint thus not allowing players to run away from fights without a penalty.
> > > >
> > > > What I think sprint affected negatively in Halo is map design as it is clear that maps in Halo 5 are more norrow with less open areas compared to previous games without sprint.
> > > >
> > > > Other spartan abilities, imo, should not be in future Halo games, ESPECIALLY SPARTAN CHARGE, as they alter the use of movements unique to Halo, such as crouch jumping which has less use in Halo 5 than in previous Halo games due to clamber.
> > >
> > > What about Counter-Strike and Overwatch, two of the most popular FPS games for eSports? I’d add Rainbow Six: Siege since sprint is rarely used competitively, but sprint is a part of the game. As for overall popularity, Crossfire (a free to play CS clone) is up there due to the Chinese and Korean market. Hell, even the Doom remake did pretty well, considering the idea of Doom 4 being dead for almost a decade and multiplayer being messed up. I’m not sure about Quake, but people seem to still be interested judging off of Bethesda’s admittedly cringey E3 Conference.
> > >
> > > I’d argue most people don’t really care about sprint, as long as the game makes sense with or without it.
> >
> > Honestly I don’t think you can compare Halo to games like Overwatch or Counter-Strike. They are very different game types. Also Halo has the disadvantage of being a longstanding franchise with many games under its belt so it has expectations and has to keep innovating in order to keep the franchise fresh are relevant to the modern market.
> > I’d argue that generally people expect a form or sprint in most FPS games that are non arena shooters.
>
> Bold - why not? Your not comparing the overall game of Halo to say Overwatch, Doom, Counter Strike, etc. Just the sprint mechanic. You said,
>
>
> > Sprint has become an essential component of most FPS games
>
> Well, people have named HIGHLY successful games, not only in sales but in popularity as well to say sprint isn’t an essential component for an FPS to do well or be popular. So in my opinion, your point has been proven wrong because people have proved that it isn’t essential with games they have named.
>
>
>
>
> > I’d argue that generally people expect a form or sprint in most FPS games that are non arena shooters.
>
> I pretty much agree with you there, but again Overwatch is far from an arena shooter and there’s no sprint animation in that, so…
Halo and CSGO cannot really be compared for very simple reasons.
-Halo has many games types: Warzone, infection, slayer, BTB, Capture the flag as well as many custom games and campaign. CSGO only has 1. Its easier so have simpler mechanics for a simpler game. Also CSGO has very different gun play than Halo where one can die very quickly and so rewards slower and more tactical gameplay while the other is supposed more about outmanoeuvring the opponent and is generally more forgiving. CSGO is also a franchise that never changes and doesn’t need to as it is a very competitive game while Halo makes slight changes every game and keep updating and improving their formula. Ultimately Halo and CSGO are games that are made with different goals and play in mind and this is why I think it would be inaccurate to claim one’s feature is another’s failure.
Also I never claimed Halo NEEDED sprint, that’s a quote from Stranger302 not me. All I said was that generally players nowadays expect a form sprint for FPS games, but no one is going to have an aneurysm if the game doesn’t (unless it was already a well established mechanic of a prequel game).
I agree that Overwatch is not quite arena style but still has strong vibes of such a genre. The game also doesn’t require sprint as the maps aren’t large enough to need it as well as the fact that several heroes have extra movement options to move around the battlefield faster (Soldier 76 Sprint XD)
> 2533274963936070;244:
> > 2533274825830455;229:
> > > 2535444702990491;225:
> > > But maps were smaller than they are today and technology limited developers with the amount of players that could even fit into MP maps. When Halo 3 came out maps got larger but without sprint players were forced to rely on vehicles to get across the maps which meant one BMS became restrictive and even boring for players (particularly with larger expanses of space).
> >
> > Do you happen to have any data to support this claim? If not, then it’s just meaningless speculation not founded in reality.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2535444702990491;225:
> > > It’s absolutely ridiculous for anyone to suggest that sprint somehow contributed to declining sales in future Halo titles. Anti sprinters present that idea as a self-serving bias; relying on deductive reasoning which cannot be proven in any way because (ultimately) it’s untrue…
> >
> > I can’t take you any more seriously than someone claiming that sprint is the sole reason for the decline in sales. Both represent highly emotionally biased views that don’t have any factual basis. One believes that because they like sprint, so must everyone else, apart from a small minority, while the other believes that everyone dislikes sprint with the same intesity as they do, apart from a small minority.
> >
> > **The truth is that there is no way to determine how significant the impact of sprint has been on the declien in sales. There never will be, because one can always attribute changes in popularity to other differences.**You’re free to try to drag anti-sprinters through the mud, but it doesn’t give any credence to your arguments. At most it makes you look like the kind of person who likes to drag others through the mud.
>
> You can always do a survay targeting the effect of one specific factor (in this case sprint) to one specific outcome (sales). So I disagree; this is one way to determine if sprint had an impact on sales or not. It might not show how significant the impact is but it will, at least, show if there is an impact.
>
> I’m not saying that it does or doesn’t; I’m saying that there is a way to find out.
How do intend to conduct this survey if each Halo has a multitude of variables that define each?
> 2533274815533909;245:
> > 2533275013370605;234:
> > > 2535464451695009;231:
> > > > 2533275013370605;226:
> > > > > 2535464451695009;223:
> > > > > > 2533274963936070;221:
> > > > > > To be honest, I like classic Halo mechanics but would probably not enjoy them as much nowadays.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint has become an essential component of most FPS games and Halo is not an exception. Also, sprint in Halo 5 was good because it stops shield recovery as long as you sprint thus not allowing players to run away from fights without a penalty.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What I think sprint affected negatively in Halo is map design as it is clear that maps in Halo 5 are more norrow with less open areas compared to previous games without sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Other spartan abilities, imo, should not be in future Halo games, ESPECIALLY SPARTAN CHARGE, as they alter the use of movements unique to Halo, such as crouch jumping which has less use in Halo 5 than in previous Halo games due to clamber.
> > > > >
> > > > > What about Counter-Strike and Overwatch, two of the most popular FPS games for eSports? I’d add Rainbow Six: Siege since sprint is rarely used competitively, but sprint is a part of the game. As for overall popularity, Crossfire (a free to play CS clone) is up there due to the Chinese and Korean market. Hell, even the Doom remake did pretty well, considering the idea of Doom 4 being dead for almost a decade and multiplayer being messed up. I’m not sure about Quake, but people seem to still be interested judging off of Bethesda’s admittedly cringey E3 Conference.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’d argue most people don’t really care about sprint, as long as the game makes sense with or without it.
> >
> > - You can sprint in real life why shouldn’t you in a game? You can clamber over obstacles why shouldn’t you in a game? - However the question of whether these changes are good or well implemented is another matter entirely. - The problem with games like Halo, and as we have experienced, when the developers try to introduce new aspects of the game in an effort to update, evolve or bring in new fans and audience their older fans usually have a negative reaction to this change. - Regardless all of this doesn’t change the fact that we have no idea what 343 has planned regarding Halo Infinite. - I would be extremely surprised if they went back to a classic style and I anticipate more of a hybrid system with only some Abilities making a return in one form or another.
>
> To me though, Halo is supposed to be the face of Xbox. When the face of your console isn’t even in the top 5 or 10 games being played or in sales for your console …to me that’s a major problem and something needs to change.
-
My point for this wasn’t that just because you can do something in real life means you should be able to do it in game. I meant it more in the sense of immersion. Also you can’t sprint at full speed and shoot at the same time, which is the point of sprint. Lying down is a feature 343 could indeed add to their game if they wanted, however as Halo is a run and gun type of game it wouldn’t work well and people wouldn’t use it much I’d wager. That said I agree that games should be fun first, as why else are we playing games other than to have fun?
-
True, there is nothing wrong with simple mechanics as long as the game flows well and is enjoyable. The problem with Halo, as many people have pointed out over the years, is that it is having an identity crisis. Should it return to its origin as a more simple game mechanically or should it continue along the path of complexity. With fans being so split on this issue the answer isn’t so easy to discern.
-
I agree here. Bungie tried to add something new to spice up the gameplay of Halo with the introduction of Armour Abilities, including Sprint, as an evolution of equipment (which I personally felt that many of them were underwhelming). As we know this was a controversial change, and perhaps Bungie would have changed things around (perhaps not considering Destiny) had they stayed but alas they didn’t and 343 took the reins and as a very new company they simply continued what Bungie had stated for their first game Halo 4. As people voiced their complaints (and I personally believe 343 wasn’t listening to the community as much as it does nowadays) and other games introduced advanced movement, 343 decided to put their own spin on it and give it a try and the results are history.
I’m curious, what is your opinion on all this? What do you want to stay? What do you want removed? -
Yay!
-
Well if it returns and it is a smashing success and fun then I’ll have no complaints. I often play Halo 3 so it would be very easy for me to jump in.
I will definitely buy Halo 6. It my favorite series and I’m far too in love with it. I’ve never hated any games so far. The only disappointment that I’ve experienced was Halo 5’s campaign story.
Don’t worry I know you are not attacking me. As you have deduced I don’t have a strong opinion on this matter and I’ll be content regardless but I still like engaging in the discussion in order to see what other people’s opinion are as well as learn more about the topic at hand. Ordinarily I would stay far away from the Classic vs Advanced Movement debacle as many discussions end up with insults and pointless round about arguments and at the end of the day no one changes anyone’s opinion as everyone thinks they are right. I made an exception this time as people seemed cordial enough and because 343 surprised me with this move.
To me Halo is Xbox its the main reason I got the console. Though I thought Halo was still in the top 10. Then again I don’t really check things like that.
> 2535444702990491;225:
> Sprint was actually found in the coding of Halo 2 and, had it been implemented, then I’m sure it would have made that great game even better.
>
> When XBL finally launched a few years later, Halo 2 again led the way by pushing consoles to their player limit with Big Team battles. But maps were smaller than they are today…
>
> When Halo 3 came out maps got larger but without sprint players were forced to rely on vehicles to get across the maps which meant one BMS became restrictive and even boring for players (particularly with larger expanses of space).
Well Bungie must’ve disagreed with your opinion since it wasn’t in the game. I believe the reasoning was that it affected the pacing of the game or something like that.
I’m not gonna bust out a tape measure, but I know just from playing on the maps that a lot of them are similar in size to H5’s maps or bigger. The maps that are definitely smaller would be Midship and maybe Wizard/Warlock.
They weren’t forced to rely on vehicles. BTB in general back then had maps with shortcuts in their layouts as well as man cannons and teleporters to help people traverse the map. Boring? I’ve never heard anyone say having to move around the map was boring. If you or anyone else thought it was boring at the time, then I have doubts the movement was the real issue. Now, I know people have said it’s too slow and I think even MLG raised the movement to 110%, but I think that’s different than saying it’s boring.
How do we settle this? Sure, we are all entitled to voice our opinions on the forums here-- But what is the solution. There will be casualties on both side regardless of the decision. All of us have taken in a little piece of each Halo game (if applicable) and held on to it, which is what makes this series so wonderful. Others may not have found that special piece to hold on to yet, and those are the people who have never played halo. Maybe Infinite is it…
Who hands in the envelope to 343 with the forum decision? (sarcasm) No but seriously, what do we do?
> 2727626560040591;249:
> > 2535444702990491;225:
> > Sprint was actually found in the coding of Halo 2 and, had it been implemented, then I’m sure it would have made that great game even better.
> >
> > When XBL finally launched a few years later, Halo 2 again led the way by pushing consoles to their player limit with Big Team battles. But maps were smaller than they are today…
> >
> > When Halo 3 came out maps got larger but without sprint players were forced to rely on vehicles to get across the maps which meant one BMS became restrictive and even boring for players (particularly with larger expanses of space).
>
> Well Bungie must’ve disagreed with your opinion since it wasn’t in the game. I believe the reasoning was that it affected the pacing of the game or something like that.
I would like to start by stating that I don’t like arguing about Halo. But I’m not going to let you tell me that a game developer “must’ve disagreed with [my] opinion…” just to flip it around with “[But] I believe…” That’s just annoying at best, facetious at worst.
No offense but the fact that Halo 2 didn’t include sprint doesn’t mean that Bungie disagreed with my opinion. Of course, my opinion really doesn’t have anything to do with Bungie’s decision about sprint from a game that launched 14 years ago when I was just a kid. There are a number of factors that likely went into their decision, as it is a well known fact that development for Halo 2 was hurried, divided between multiple teams (focusing on either campaign or multiplayer) and development for Halo 2 was ultimately cut short. Many levels, weapons, enemies, vehicles, and maps were scrapped during various stages of development so trying to look back and claim “they cut ‘x’ because of ‘y,’” isn’t really worth arguing. One thing that the community does agree with is that multiple things cut during the development of Halo 2 could have benefited the overall experience. Sprint, IMO, is one of those things that could have improved the Halo 2 experience.
I’m not going to tell you that your beliefs about it are wrong either but my belief is that they just didn’t have time to finish developing/balancing sprint. To me the fact that Bungie even developed sprint as early back as Halo 2 indicates that they thought sprint was an idea worth putting time, effort, and resources into and they were close to finishing sprint as early back as the second Halo game ever created. The same development studio later went on to add sprint into Halo just two AAA titles later with Reach; so the facts line up to support that they always intended to add sprint into Halo. However I’m willing to concede that perhaps you’re right about what happened during Halo 2… Perhaps not.
That said (pure speculation aside), the facts are such that Bungie was close to adding sprint during the development of Halo 2 and they did indeed add sprint into Halo Reach. Sprint has remained ingrained into the Halo experience with every Halo title that has launched since Reach; as it’s been tuned and tweaked with each iteration for balancing purposes to improve the movement system for players. Under this line of reasoning there’s no indication to support that Halo’s creators should drop sprint.
> 2533274811643195;247:
> > 2533274963936070;244:
> > > 2533274825830455;229:
> > > > 2535444702990491;225:
> > > > But maps were smaller than they are today and technology limited developers with the amount of players that could even fit into MP maps. When Halo 3 came out maps got larger but without sprint players were forced to rely on vehicles to get across the maps which meant one BMS became restrictive and even boring for players (particularly with larger expanses of space).
> > >
> > > Do you happen to have any data to support this claim? If not, then it’s just meaningless speculation not founded in reality.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2535444702990491;225:
> > > > It’s absolutely ridiculous for anyone to suggest that sprint somehow contributed to declining sales in future Halo titles. Anti sprinters present that idea as a self-serving bias; relying on deductive reasoning which cannot be proven in any way because (ultimately) it’s untrue…
> > >
> > > I can’t take you any more seriously than someone claiming that sprint is the sole reason for the decline in sales. Both represent highly emotionally biased views that don’t have any factual basis. One believes that because they like sprint, so must everyone else, apart from a small minority, while the other believes that everyone dislikes sprint with the same intesity as they do, apart from a small minority.
> > >
> > > **The truth is that there is no way to determine how significant the impact of sprint has been on the declien in sales. There never will be, because one can always attribute changes in popularity to other differences.**You’re free to try to drag anti-sprinters through the mud, but it doesn’t give any credence to your arguments. At most it makes you look like the kind of person who likes to drag others through the mud.
> >
> > You can always do a survay targeting the effect of one specific factor (in this case sprint) to one specific outcome (sales). So I disagree; this is one way to determine if sprint had an impact on sales or not. It might not show how significant the impact is but it will, at least, show if there is an impact.
> >
> > I’m not saying that it does or doesn’t; I’m saying that there is a way to find out.
>
> How do intend to conduct this survey if each Halo has a multitude of variables that define each?
I would do it for Halo 5 as it is the game in question now.
The simplest method would be to do a general survay beginning with the following question:
- Did you buy Halo 5? Yes/No
Did you like the following features? - Sprint: Yes/No
- Some other feature: Yes/No
- Etc…
Do a univariate analysis on sprint and see the percentage of those who did not like sprint and did not buy the game compared to those who did not like sprint but still bought the game–> if the first % is higher than the second % (statistically significant) then this might indicate that sprint impacted sales negatively.
> 2533274815533909;245:
> > 2533275013370605;234:
> > > 2535464451695009;231:
> > > > 2533275013370605;226:
> > > > > 2535464451695009;223:
> > > > > > 2533274963936070;221:
> > > > > > To be honest, I like classic Halo mechanics but would probably not enjoy them as much nowadays.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint has become an essential component of most FPS games and Halo is not an exception. Also, sprint in Halo 5 was good because it stops shield recovery as long as you sprint thus not allowing players to run away from fights without a penalty.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What I think sprint affected negatively in Halo is map design as it is clear that maps in Halo 5 are more norrow with less open areas compared to previous games without sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Other spartan abilities, imo, should not be in future Halo games, ESPECIALLY SPARTAN CHARGE, as they alter the use of movements unique to Halo, such as crouch jumping which has less use in Halo 5 than in previous Halo games due to clamber.
> > > > >
> > > > > What about Counter-Strike and Overwatch, two of the most popular FPS games for eSports? I’d add Rainbow Six: Siege since sprint is rarely used competitively, but sprint is a part of the game. As for overall popularity, Crossfire (a free to play CS clone) is up there due to the Chinese and Korean market. Hell, even the Doom remake did pretty well, considering the idea of Doom 4 being dead for almost a decade and multiplayer being messed up. I’m not sure about Quake, but people seem to still be interested judging off of Bethesda’s admittedly cringey E3 Conference.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’d argue most people don’t really care about sprint, as long as the game makes sense with or without it.
> >
> > - You can sprint in real life why shouldn’t you in a game? You can clamber over obstacles why shouldn’t you in a game? - However the question of whether these changes are good or well implemented is another matter entirely. - The problem with games like Halo, and as we have experienced, when the developers try to introduce new aspects of the game in an effort to update, evolve or bring in new fans and audience their older fans usually have a negative reaction to this change. - Regardless all of this doesn’t change the fact that we have no idea what 343 has planned regarding Halo Infinite. - I would be extremely surprised if they went back to a classic style and I anticipate more of a hybrid system with only some Abilities making a return in one form or another.
>
> 1- It’s never a good thing to say you can do x in real life, why can’t you in a video game in my opinion. In real life I can run and shoot a gun, why can’t I in Halo? In real life I can lie flat on my stomach and shoot a gun, why can’t I in Halo? See what im getting at? Using real life comparisons to video games is dumb I feel, unless you’re building a game that is supposed to be as realistic as possible. Halo is far from being realistic as I’m sure we all can agree. First and foremost video games should be fun first.
>
> 2- This very true. I just know that the more mechanics you having a game the harder it is to make it balanced, make it flow good, etc. There’s something to be said for simpler mechanics sometimes.
>
> 3- True…to a point. Fans generally have negative reactions because they’re trying to change the game so much that it doesn’t even play like the game they used to know at all. Reach started it and 4 really took it to the next level. Halo 5 definitely brought some things back to earth which was good, but did a bunch of things that were very questionable. Despite what a lot of pro sprint players think, people who don’t like Sprint don’t want another Halo 1 2 or 3 Clone. They are all for different things being added and that can include mechanics. Most people don’t have a huge problem for example with some form of thrusters or clamber. Look at Halo 1,2 and 3 all played similar but each one added new things to it and for the most part the majority of fans liked it. Some fans didn’t for sure, but the majority did, case in point the popularity and sales kept going up.
>
> 4- Agreed!
>
> 5- Also agree moreless. I wouldn’t be extremely surprised but somewhat. I would be however very impressed that they had the guts to do it.
>
> Halos multiplayer is more of an Arena FPS, again I think we can all agree on that. So to me, it should play like one. My point and others is 343I have made a few Halo games now with the sprint animation. They’ve adding things that were very non Arena FPS/Halo. Most of it didn’t work at all and were horrible!! some of it wasn’t bad though, and some of it was implemented pretty decent even, but even after all this the Halo games has continued to go down in sales and popularity, so why not make a Halo game that doesn’t have the sprint animation again? What do they have to loose? There are some people that probably wouldn’t play new Halo game without the sprint animation sure… but I would argue that there are a lot of people out there that aren’t playing Halo right now that would be seriously interested in a Halo game that doesn’t have a sprint animation. If they did make a game without the the Sprint animation and the game as a whole was good, no bad launches or anything like this and it still didn’t do as good I say Halo 5, well then at least 343I can say “we tried it, and it didn’t work” but I would be seriously shocked if it didn’t do at least as good as Halo games with a sprint animation.
>
> Myself, as well as many others and I suspect yourself will at least check out and most likely buy Halo 6. If we like it or not, who knows…
>
> I can tell your not ain’t this or that so much, just saying what you think, as am I and others and I know you know this. I’m not attacking you or anything just bringing up points.
>
> To me though, Halo is supposed to be the face of Xbox. When the face of your console isn’t even in the top 5 or 10 games being played or in sales for your console …to me that’s a major problem and something needs to change.
Well, I will play Halo games with or without sprint, anyway. The great question is about the new players…
And that’s a very risk decision to make. Launch a game without any upgrades or changes will affect the sales too. There’s too many FPS competitors with great appeal with their multiplayers. The Halo Infinite will sell well because of already designed target public base , but don’t expect to selling easily 10 millions or 30 millions in 3 days. Don’t forget about players actives too, the final-new users who will join the community for the rest of their life.
And don’t forget about the media. I don’t give so much credibility to them because they don’t show their ID/Gamertag, but their opinion can influence the casuals too, who never played videogame in their lifes. People will think ten times before buy between Halo, Battlefield and Call Of Duty. 1 Game Exclusive platform vs Multiplatforms best sellers. It’s a fight against the giants.
> 2533274829253443;250:
> How do we settle this? Sure, we are all entitled to voice our opinions on the forums here-- But what is the solution. There will be casualties on both side regardless of the decision. All of us have taken in a little piece of each Halo game (if applicable) and held on to it, which is what makes this series so wonderful. Others may not have found that special piece to hold on to yet, and those are the people who have never played halo. Maybe Infinite is it…
>
> No but seriously, what do we do?
There is no solution. All you can do is hope 343 goes in the direction that’s favorable to you. At the end of the day, 343 should just do whatever their vision is for H:I. Trying to please everyone will likely end up with disappointment on both sides.
> 2535444702990491;251:
> text
Well the known reason given for it being cut was a due to a negative game mechanic issue. That said, you are correct in that there could’ve been other reasons involved as well which we’ll likely never know.
> 2533274963936070;252:
> > 2533274811643195;247:
> > > 2533274963936070;244:
> > > > 2533274825830455;229:
> > > > > 2535444702990491;225:
> > > > > But maps were smaller than they are today and technology limited developers with the amount of players that could even fit into MP maps. When Halo 3 came out maps got larger but without sprint players were forced to rely on vehicles to get across the maps which meant one BMS became restrictive and even boring for players (particularly with larger expanses of space).
> > > >
> > > > Do you happen to have any data to support this claim? If not, then it’s just meaningless speculation not founded in reality.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2535444702990491;225:
> > > > > It’s absolutely ridiculous for anyone to suggest that sprint somehow contributed to declining sales in future Halo titles. Anti sprinters present that idea as a self-serving bias; relying on deductive reasoning which cannot be proven in any way because (ultimately) it’s untrue…
> > > >
> > > > I can’t take you any more seriously than someone claiming that sprint is the sole reason for the decline in sales. Both represent highly emotionally biased views that don’t have any factual basis. One believes that because they like sprint, so must everyone else, apart from a small minority, while the other believes that everyone dislikes sprint with the same intesity as they do, apart from a small minority.
> > > >
> > > > **The truth is that there is no way to determine how significant the impact of sprint has been on the declien in sales. There never will be, because one can always attribute changes in popularity to other differences.**You’re free to try to drag anti-sprinters through the mud, but it doesn’t give any credence to your arguments. At most it makes you look like the kind of person who likes to drag others through the mud.
> > >
> > > You can always do a survay targeting the effect of one specific factor (in this case sprint) to one specific outcome (sales). So I disagree; this is one way to determine if sprint had an impact on sales or not. It might not show how significant the impact is but it will, at least, show if there is an impact.
> > >
> > > I’m not saying that it does or doesn’t; I’m saying that there is a way to find out.
> >
> > How do intend to conduct this survey if each Halo has a multitude of variables that define each?
>
> I would do it for Halo 5 as it is the game in question now.
>
> The simplest method would be to do a general survay beginning with the following question:
> 1. Did you buy Halo 5? Yes/No
> Did you like the following features?
> 2. Sprint: Yes/No
> 3. Some other feature: Yes/No
> 4. Etc…
>
> Do a univariate analysis on sprint and see the percentage of those who did not like sprint and did not buy the game compared to those who did not like sprint but still bought the game–> if the first % is higher than the second % (statistically significant) then this might indicate that sprint impacted sales negatively.
I will love to do answer this kind of survey. This will help us to clarify what should we put on the game or not. That’s will solve the situation.
But, like any another democracy, some will lost, others will win XD. Hahahahaha.
> 2535444702990491;224:
> > 2533274972295362;222:
> > > 2533274852612179;211:
> > >
>
>
>
> Traversing across open spaces becomes incredibly boring; as it feels more like a chore with one BMS. Does anyone recall Avalanche in Halo 3? It was the huge snow level where players would ALWAYS betray each other at the spawn in a mad dash for the vehicles. Some left out of the vehicle dash would even rage quit versus having to walk across those vast open spaces of the map. If players simply had sprint this would not have been an issue, and the larger maps would have become much more enjoyable.
Good point, I’d forgotten about those huge (BTB) maps in halo 1. In my mind, I was thinking more of a longbow map, or Prison. These maps put more emphasis on map control rather than movement. And it satiates the need you present for easily traversing a map.
> 2533274972295362;256:
> > 2535444702990491;224:
> > > 2533274972295362;222:
> > > > 2533274852612179;211:
> > > >
> >
> > Traversing across open spaces becomes incredibly boring; as it feels more like a chore with one BMS. Does anyone recall Avalanche in Halo 3? It was the huge snow level where players would ALWAYS betray each other at the spawn in a mad dash for the vehicles. Some left out of the vehicle dash would even rage quit versus having to walk across those vast open spaces of the map. If players simply had sprint this would not have been an issue, and the larger maps would have become much more enjoyable.
>
> Good point, I’d forgotten about those huge (BTB) maps in halo 1. In my mind, I was thinking more of a longbow map, or Prison. These maps put more emphasis on map control rather than movement. And it satiates the need you present for easily traversing a map.
Even people that hate Sprint fully agree with this. Traversing large expanses in CE is extremely tedious, especially away from a teleporter.
You gotta understand it’s not because of the lack of Sprint, though. In fact, prior to Sprint we had options that were MUCH faster than Sprint. Of course you had teleporters, but most importantly, you had man-cannons at spawn if vehicles were not available, which were always tuned to send players right back into the map and right back into the action, instantly. These things just nailed home Halo’s Sci-fi feel too.
Halo CE had no man-cannons in the majority of maps, however. The fall damage system would kill you if you had the slightest bit of hangtime and it was decided in Halo 2 and 3 to scrap that in favor of swirling boost pads that are extremely satisfying to use and extremely unique to Halo… but yeah, every Halo game afterward was much better at allowing players to navigate large expanses due to this.
I can live with Sprint BTB for the most part, but I can’t shake the feeling that it’s removing a lot of cool map interaction like that. Those gave maps a lot of personality aside from ‘large open field’.
> 2535460843083983;257:
> > 2533274972295362;256:
> > > 2535444702990491;224:
> > > > 2533274972295362;222:
> > > > > 2533274852612179;211:
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Traversing across open spaces becomes incredibly boring; as it feels more like a chore with one BMS. Does anyone recall Avalanche in Halo 3? It was the huge snow level where players would ALWAYS betray each other at the spawn in a mad dash for the vehicles. Some left out of the vehicle dash would even rage quit versus having to walk across those vast open spaces of the map. If players simply had sprint this would not have been an issue, and the larger maps would have become much more enjoyable.
> >
> > Good point, I’d forgotten about those huge (BTB) maps in halo 1. In my mind, I was thinking more of a longbow map, or Prison. These maps put more emphasis on map control rather than movement. And it satiates the need you present for easily traversing a map.
>
> Even people that hate Sprint fully agree with this. Traversing large expanses in CE is extremely tedious, especially away from a teleporter.
>
> I can live with Sprint BTB for the most part, but I can’t shake the feeling that it’s removing a lot of cool map interaction like that. Those gave maps a lot of personality aside from ‘large open field’.
Yeah I’ll bet there could be an easy compromise for this in Halo Infinite.
I’d say sprint should be default in Campaign but players could alternatively equip a “classic,” play style controller configuration which offers one BMS instead of sprint; while providing an overall equivalentish speed to move.
In MP there could be playlists which have sprint and classic ones which don’t. It would also provide an interesting and fair comparison to 343i (via player population) and potentially even the entire community to actually see if players prefer sprint and the new movement system. 343i could also choose to supplement additional data to determine this with community surveys.
The debate whether or not Infinite should have advanced movement shall henceforth be known as The Great Schism.
> 2533274963936070;244:
> > 2533274825830455;229:
> > > 2535444702990491;225:
> > > But maps were smaller than they are today and technology limited developers with the amount of players that could even fit into MP maps. When Halo 3 came out maps got larger but without sprint players were forced to rely on vehicles to get across the maps which meant one BMS became restrictive and even boring for players (particularly with larger expanses of space).
> >
> > Do you happen to have any data to support this claim? If not, then it’s just meaningless speculation not founded in reality.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2535444702990491;225:
> > > It’s absolutely ridiculous for anyone to suggest that sprint somehow contributed to declining sales in future Halo titles. Anti sprinters present that idea as a self-serving bias; relying on deductive reasoning which cannot be proven in any way because (ultimately) it’s untrue…
> >
> > I can’t take you any more seriously than someone claiming that sprint is the sole reason for the decline in sales. Both represent highly emotionally biased views that don’t have any factual basis. One believes that because they like sprint, so must everyone else, apart from a small minority, while the other believes that everyone dislikes sprint with the same intesity as they do, apart from a small minority.
> >
> > **The truth is that there is no way to determine how significant the impact of sprint has been on the declien in sales. There never will be, because one can always attribute changes in popularity to other differences.**You’re free to try to drag anti-sprinters through the mud, but it doesn’t give any credence to your arguments. At most it makes you look like the kind of person who likes to drag others through the mud.
>
> You can always do a survay targeting the effect of one specific factor (in this case sprint) to one specific outcome (sales). So I disagree; this is one way to determine if sprint had an impact on sales or not. It might not show how significant the impact is but it will, at least, show if there is an impact.
>
> I’m not saying that it does or doesn’t; I’m saying that there is a way to find out.
Obviously there are ways you can find the answer in theory. My wording might have been a bit misleading. I meant to say that there is no way to determine the impact based on available data, and there never will be because no one will ever carry out the survey you’re suggesting. This was simply a comment to the people who think they already have the answer.