The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
2542

What new generation Halo players don’t understand, is that Halo’s classic movement system worked so well with Halo because of the maps and how the base movement speed was adjusted to fit the playstyle for specific playlists. MLG for Halo 3 was intense as hell. Not only was the movement fast, but the maps were heavily designed behind the movement. So, the maps were perfectly sized and created a nice balance between distances. MLG was fast paced, and the gameplay was unique which required precision, skill, and teamwork to make plays happen. The gameplay made it possible to allow better players to come out on top of a 1v1 encounter. It wasn’t a run and gun, twitch shooter where whoever shot first wins. It was more of a tactical, precision, and skilled based game. The classic gameplay was perfect for live viewing tournaments because it was easy to follow. There was no bullsh*t armor abilities where players are constantly running around jumping halfway across the map and dashing left or right with jet packs, ground pounding the floor. Halo 5 is so damn annoying to watch tournaments.

Halo 3 was fast, intense, and the map design was well thought out.

So, Halo: Infinite needs to return to classic gameplay, period. The game needs to feel like an actual Halo game because right now 343i games feel like generic shooters that has copied from COD, Titanfall, and Destiny. Halo needs to become a unique game again. That is the only way Halo will come back to the top of the gaming charts. That’s how a game officially becomes a next gen console seller… (Just look at Halo 3’s launch.) And for the love of Guardians, get rid of the loot box/ micro-transactions and the sh*ty armor customization that’s tied to it. That garbage doesn’t keep players around. The fact that they released a low-tiered flash animated commercial ad about, “REQ” packs, was like a punch in the face to the fanbase.

Although the gameplay for Halo 3 was better than Halo: Reach, Reach destroys any 343i game. The life of Halo: Reach lasted a long damn time due to the playability and armor customization with how the way progression system worked. There was in-game credits where players can play and spend their hard earned credits on armors /effects, etc. That’s how you keep players in. Having better quality of content is better than a quantity of bad designed content. The way you earn something by playing the game is far more rewarding than paying money for something random. There’s nothing special about that.

After watching both the trailers from 2018 and 2019 E3, Halo: Infinite actually looks like an authentic Halo game so far. Lets just hope the game feels like Halo.

2543

I noticed the initial posters were remarking on slow movement. If I’m not mistaken, that impression is the result of a lower FoV. When playing any Halo game with a higher FoV, it’s not just a liberating experience, but also feels faster too.

To add my own input, although clamber has effectively sidelined crouch jumps, grenade jumps, etc., I still think that campaign Chief could really use the higher jump height he possessed in H2/H3. At the very least, campaign Chief shouldn’t be a mere copy and paste of the weaker multiplayer Spartan IVs. The degradation of his performance was very noticeable in Halo 4.

2544

I have been skipping around and reading this thread and realize there is a big split on what we want. I have enjoyed all the Halo games but some more than others. For me, a Halo game is a Halo game due to certain things. If we have even starts, 4v4, skilled shooting rather than twitch shooting like cod or battlefield, a reliance on combining gun work, grenades, melee, map movement and control are what makes halos games to me. For me, Halo 4 and reach were the farthest from being a Halo game. Reach was fun but it didn’t tick all the marks to what I look for in Halo, same with Halo 4. The advanced movement in Halo 5 did tick all the things I look for so it is great to me. I personally would like the same movement as Halo 5 without Spartan charge and ground pound. There is nothing bad about the old games but I just prefer the new movement. I feel a big part of Halo mp is decision making, advanced movement adds to it in its own way. Everyone has their own ideas of what a Halo game is to them. That’s why everyone will want something different.

2545

> 2533274809762193;2542:
> Halo 5 is so damn annoying to watch tournaments.

Opposite for me. And I’ve loved watching Halo tourneys dating all the way back to when Halo: Combat Evolved had a tournament aired on G4 TV allowing me to watch a so-called National Halo Championship FFA tournament back in 2002. With that I began to seek out anything I could follow regarding national Halo tournaments. I learned about Associates of Gaming Professionals (AGP) and Major League Gaming (MLG) and how they were hosting big Halo tournaments, but unfortunately I wasn’t able to attend those that came to Chicago or watch them at that time. I could only keep up with what information I could find online regarding the events and players. My friends and I attended whatever local events we had being put on near us. Often those were by the Funcoland store which eventually became Gamestop. Other events were the small ones we put on ourselves and those primarily just turned into fun Big Team Battles or Big Team FFA mayham since we had a group of over 30 people/friends who played.

I’ve continued to follow the Halo tournament scene ever since. During the Halo 2 days, I was stoked to find out that they were going to be broadcast on television. I watched what I could of early Halo 2 events on YouTube and caught every aired episode of the 2006 and 2007 Halo Pro Circuit. When it was announced that future events wouldn’t be broadcast on TV I subscribed to MLG.tv in order to continue watching. Seeing ESPN get in on the action with their Top 10 plays was awesome as well.

Throughout Reach I stopped following the scene as adamantly because I was so annoyed with what Reach offered game-play wise and the toxicity that seemed to make up a lot of the competitive crowd. My interest pretty much came to a halt at the time Halo 4 released even though I much preferred its social game-play to Reach game-play. However, when I watched the Halo 4 Global Championship it kind of re-sparked my interest and I started paying more attention to the competitive scene again; however, there wasn’t really much of a scene to follow until the announcement of the HCS and its inaugural season kicking off with Halo 2 Anniversary on the MCC. I watched all the events and appreciated the throwback nod to Halo 2, but I was ecstatic for the release of Halo 5 after playing the crap out of the Beta.

And I can say with confidence that of all the Halo tournament action I’ve watched none has been more enjoyable than watching the progress of pro play within Halo 5; although, Halo 2 (classic) comes really close. In my opinion, Halo 5 matches were by-far the most entertaining and enjoyable to spectate; especially, in its final year after all the adjustments were made to settings and the game’s meta was much more well understood. I’ve again lost most of my interest with the scene moving back to Halo 3. It just doesn’t get me hyped to watch or really follow. That Halo 3 Big Team Bonanza event was pretty cool though.

2546

> 2533274820483063;2544:
> If we have even starts, 4v4, skilled shooting rather than twitch shooting like cod or battlefield, a reliance on combining gun work, grenades, melee, map movement and control are what makes halos games to me.

Going by nothing but those things, you could just as well be talking about Gears of War…

2547

> 2533274801973487;2546:
> > 2533274820483063;2544:
> > If we have even starts, 4v4, skilled shooting rather than twitch shooting like cod or battlefield, a reliance on combining gun work, grenades, melee, map movement and control are what makes halos games to me.
>
> Going by nothing but those things, you could just as well be talking about Gears of War…

Even if, there is no denying that is the core of Halo multiplayer. I’m sure anyone would agree every Halo game should have these things

2548

yeah old movement around maps will be so much better then the way it is in H5 then the maps will be able to be played properly again

2549

The old movement was much better, more smooth, and everything worked great. Honestly no pleasing anyone though on this matter. If it comes down to it just do the original setting modes for the ones who want it and the 4-5 style for the other side.

2550

> 2533274820483063;2547:
> > 2533274801973487;2546:
> > > 2533274820483063;2544:
> > > If we have even starts, 4v4, skilled shooting rather than twitch shooting like cod or battlefield, a reliance on combining gun work, grenades, melee, map movement and control are what makes halos games to me.
> >
> > Going by nothing but those things, you could just as well be talking about Gears of War…
>
> Even if, there is no denying that is the core of Halo multiplayer. I’m sure anyone would agree every Halo game should have these things

I would disagree…some of those points might be part of what should be in a Halo game, but they are far from being the defining aspects, as I said, somewhat even starts small teams, skilled gunplay, combining gun work (I assume you are talking about using different weapon pick-up?), grenades, melee, map movement and control are key features of Gears as well but I’d never consider Gears and Halo to be the same…
You working definition does not work…

2551

I was typing out a long comment, but there’s honestly no point in talking to a wall of nostalgia. Series identity is important (that’s why the art style has changed), and everyone has a preference, but not having sprint isn’t a compromise.

2552

> 2535419441797248;2551:
> I was typing out a long comment, but there’s honestly no point in talking to a wall of nostalgia. Series identity is important (that’s why the art style has changed), and everyone has a preference, but not having sprint isn’t a compromise.

So, if Infinite does not feature sprint, and in the case you came on here to offer your insight/feedback wanting sprint back, I could whiff it off as “a wall of nostalgia”?.

I suspect you’d just retort with “but that’s not nostalgia, that’s me wanting Infinite / the next Halo to play like I want it to play, nostalgia is longing for a period in time which has been. Wanting a game / product to be in a certain way I like it, has nothing to do with remenising times long gone.”

To which I’d answer: “Oh, so your feedback on wanting next Halo to include sprint is tied to how you like games to play, not that you want the game play like an older games because you long for those times? How silly of me to use the same argument to dismiss your feedback you used a number of years ago after the second Halo Infinite trailer had dropped during E3.”

Who’s looking for a compromise?

2553

> 2533274795123910;2552:
> > 2535419441797248;2551:
> > I was typing out a long comment, but there’s honestly no point in talking to a wall of nostalgia. Series identity is important (that’s why the art style has changed), and everyone has a preference, but not having sprint isn’t a compromise.
>
> So, if Infinite does not feature sprint, and in the case you came on here to offer your insight/feedback wanting sprint back, I could whiff it off as “a wall of nostalgia”?.
>
> I suspect you’d just retort with “but that’s not nostalgia, that’s me wanting Infinite / the next Halo to play like I want it to play, nostalgia is longing for a period in time which has been. Wanting a game / product to be in a certain way I like it, has nothing to do with remenising times long gone.”
>
> To which I’d answer: “Oh, so your feedback on wanting next Halo to include sprint is tied to how you like games to play, not that you want the game play like an older games because you long for those times? How silly of me to use the same argument to dismiss your feedback you used a number of years ago after the second Halo Infinite trailer had dropped during E3.”
>
> Who’s looking for a compromise?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I’m not fussed whether it’s in the game or not, because it doesn’t really matter. Halo can be Halo with or without it. But not having sprint isn’t a compromise for fans that have a preference of one system over another. A solution could involve sprint similar to how it is in Halo 5, or just not include it, and have a greater base movement speed.

Rather than trying to be witty, perhaps actually raise some valid counter points? Better luck next time though.

2554

> 2535419441797248;2553:
> > 2533274795123910;2552:
> > > 2535419441797248;2551:
> > > I was typing out a long comment, but there’s honestly no point in talking to a wall of nostalgia. Series identity is important (that’s why the art style has changed), and everyone has a preference, but not having sprint isn’t a compromise.
> >
> > So, if Infinite does not feature sprint, and in the case you came on here to offer your insight/feedback wanting sprint back, I could whiff it off as “a wall of nostalgia”?.
> > I suspect you’d just retort with “but that’s not nostalgia, that’s me wanting Infinite / the next Halo to play like I want it to play, nostalgia is longing for a period in time which has been. Wanting a game / product to be in a certain way I like it, has nothing to do with remenising times long gone.”
> > To which I’d answer: “Oh, so your feedback on wanting next Halo to include sprint is tied to how you like games to play, not that you want the game play like an older games because you long for those times? How silly of me to use the same argument to dismiss your feedback you used a number of years ago after the second Halo Infinite trailer had dropped during E3.”
> > Who’s looking for a compromise?
>
> Sorry to burst your bubble, but I’m not fussed whether it’s in the game or not, because it doesn’t really matter. Halo can be Halo with or without it. But not having sprint isn’t a compromise for fans that have a preference of one system over another. A solution could involve sprint similar to how it is in Halo 5, or just not include it, and have a greater base movement speed.
> Rather than trying to be witty, perhaps actually raise some valid counter points? Better luck next time though.

Well luckily there’s an ‘incase’ in there somewhere…
How it was implemented into Halo 5 isn’t considered that good by many of those who are not fond of sprint, so how would that then be a compromise if there are no changes at all? Increased BMS has been argued for over a looong period of time instead of including sprint, other options that has also been mentioned to go along with an increased BMS is increased FoV, slight motion blur and slightly heavier bobing at full speed.
First off, it worked, there’s no mention of nostalgia or even an attempt at even the slightest rebutal. Second, valid counter points against, what, exactly?
You mentioned a long text but decided against it, nothing but an anecdote.
Then your reason for not posting a long text is shared, which is nothing more than the “nostalgia dismissal” card for the x:th time, which I did adress, not really sure if the point of view change was recieved as intendent.
Next is identity importantnce and how everyone has a preference. Why should I counter any of these?
Last it’s about compromise, without ever going any deeper into who’s asking for one or what a compromise would be. Sprint not included not being a compromise can mean a lot of things. Henche why I asked who’s looking/asking for one.
As I see nothing to counter, what exactly am I supposed to “provide valid counters” against?

2555

> 2533274795123910;2554:
> > 2535419441797248;2553:
> > > 2533274795123910;2552:
> > > > 2535419441797248;2551:
> > > > I was typing out a long comment, but there’s honestly no point in talking to a wall of nostalgia. Series identity is important (that’s why the art style has changed), and everyone has a preference, but not having sprint isn’t a compromise.
> > >
> > > So, if Infinite does not feature sprint, and in the case you came on here to offer your insight/feedback wanting sprint back, I could whiff it off as “a wall of nostalgia”?.
> > > I suspect you’d just retort with “but that’s not nostalgia, that’s me wanting Infinite / the next Halo to play like I want it to play, nostalgia is longing for a period in time which has been. Wanting a game / product to be in a certain way I like it, has nothing to do with remenising times long gone.”
> > > To which I’d answer: “Oh, so your feedback on wanting next Halo to include sprint is tied to how you like games to play, not that you want the game play like an older games because you long for those times? How silly of me to use the same argument to dismiss your feedback you used a number of years ago after the second Halo Infinite trailer had dropped during E3.”
> > > Who’s looking for a compromise?
> >
> > Sorry to burst your bubble, but I’m not fussed whether it’s in the game or not, because it doesn’t really matter. Halo can be Halo with or without it. But not having sprint isn’t a compromise for fans that have a preference of one system over another. A solution could involve sprint similar to how it is in Halo 5, or just not include it, and have a greater base movement speed.
> > Rather than trying to be witty, perhaps actually raise some valid counter points? Better luck next time though.
>
> Well luckily there’s an ‘incase’ in there somewhere…
> How it was implemented into Halo 5 isn’t considered that good by many of those who are not fond of sprint, so how would that then be a compromise if there are no changes at all? Increased BMS has been argued for over a looong period of time instead of including sprint, other options that has also been mentioned to go along with an increased BMS is increased FoV, slight motion blur and slightly heavier bobing at full speed.
> First off, it worked, there’s no mention of nostalgia or even an attempt at even the slightest rebutal. Second, valid counter points against, what, exactly?
> You mentioned a long text but decided against it, nothing but an anecdote.
> Then your reason for not posting a long text is shared, which is nothing more than the “nostalgia dismissal” card for the x:th time, which I did adress, not really sure if the point of view change was recieved as intendent.
> Next is identity importantnce and how everyone has a preference. Why should I counter any of these?
> Last it’s about compromise, without ever going any deeper into who’s asking for one or what a compromise would be. Sprint not included not being a compromise can mean a lot of things. Henche why I asked who’s looking/asking for one.
> As I see nothing to counter, what exactly am I supposed to “provide valid counters” against?

Well as luck would have it, there was a ‘similar’ in there somewhere, when I mentioned Halo 5’s sprint…

I dismiss fans knee-deep in nostalgia because you aren’t going to change their minds, due to said nostalgia. It eventually ends in pointless aggression, which is what I wanted to avoid. It can also lead to elitism, which it has done in some of the 2554 comments thus far, and I don’t abide by it.

Counter points against sprint, whether it can be implemented as a compromise feature or not, and how, if it can be, implemented as a compromise feature. I’m sorry I didn’t make it clearer. I wrongly assumed you’d be able to read between the lines.

2556

<p>

2557

> 2535419441797248;2555:
> I dismiss fans knee-deep in nostalgia because you aren’t going to change their minds, due to said nostalgia.

Have you ever considered that people dislike sprint not because of nostalgia but because they are interested in how a game plays?

> 2535419441797248;2555:
> Counter points against sprint, whether it can be implemented as a compromise feature or not, and how, if it can be, implemented as a compromise feature.

This thread is filled with Counter points against sprint, whether it can be implemented as a compromise feature or not, and how, if it can be, implemented as a compromise feature…

2558

> 2533274801973487;2557:
> > 2535419441797248;2555:
> > I dismiss fans knee-deep in nostalgia because you aren’t going to change their minds, due to said nostalgia.
>
> Have you ever considered that people dislike sprint not because of nostalgia but because they are interested in how a game plays?

I know there are genuine reasons as to why people dislike sprint. I didn’t say nor imply that there wasn’t. I’m sorry if you inferred that. I implied that some of those that dislike sprint do so because of nostalgia, but not all.

> 2533274801973487;2557:
> > 2535419441797248;2555:
> > Counter points against sprint, whether it can be implemented as a compromise feature or not, and how, if it can be, implemented as a compromise feature.
>
> This thread is filled with Counter points against sprint, whether it can be implemented as a compromise feature or not, and how, if it can be, implemented as a compromise feature…

Thank you for pointing this out, but I already know it is. However, I was talking to an individual, not the thread.

2559

> 2535419441797248;2555:
> I dismiss fans knee-deep in nostalgia because you aren’t going to change their minds, due to said nostalgia. It eventually ends in pointless aggression, which is what I wanted to avoid. It can also lead to elitism, which it has done in some of the 2554 comments thus far, and I don’t abide by it.

Yes, I also dislike elitism. That’s why I always quickly dismiss opinions I don’t agree with or understand. I find that showing the superiority of my views by being dismissive really curbs the elitism.

2560

> 2533274825830455;2559:
> > 2535419441797248;2555:
> > I dismiss fans knee-deep in nostalgia because you aren’t going to change their minds, due to said nostalgia. It eventually ends in pointless aggression, which is what I wanted to avoid. It can also lead to elitism, which it has done in some of the 2554 comments thus far, and I don’t abide by it.
>
> Yes, I also dislike elitism. That’s why I always quickly dismiss opinions I don’t agree with or understand. I find that showing the superiority of my views by being dismissive really curbs the elitism.

I dismiss the opinions of those that dismiss the opinions of others because they think their opinion matters more. I don’t believe my own views to be superior to anyone else’s non-elitist views. For example, I dismiss fascists, but that doesn’t make me a fascist myself.

2561

> 2535419441797248;2555:
> Well as luck would have it, there was a ‘similar’ in there somewhere, when I mentioned Halo 5’s sprint…

Certainly not in the first post of yours in this quote chain.

> 2535419441797248;2555:
> I dismiss fans knee-deep in nostalgia because you aren’t going to change their minds, due to said nostalgia. It eventually ends in pointless aggression, which is what I wanted to avoid. It can also lead to elitism, which it has done in some of the 2554 comments thus far, and I don’t abide by it.

So, your course of action is pointing out you have a long post, but not wanting to share it at all. Instead you choose to dismiss any potential argument against your not-posted long post by pulling the “nostalgia card”, and not posting your long post.

> 2535419441797248;2555:
> Counter points against sprint, whether it can be implemented as a compromise feature or not, and how, if it can be, implemented as a compromise feature. I’m sorry I didn’t make it clearer. I wrongly assumed you’d be able to read between the lines.

You mentioned sprint once…
After you dismissed any potential argument by pulling the nostalgia card and not posting your long post.

What kind of discussions were you hoping to acheive by not posting whatever long thing you had, make a dismissive remark, further amplified by not posting whatever you had to say, and make a short short statement regarding sprint?