The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > The only argument you have left is “I don’t like it and I don’t want it” which is a terrible solution to any problem.
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> Nope, my argument is and always was "game design supercedes lore." Once you decide to address that part without linking me to someone else’s YouTube video about something entirely different, maybe we can get back to a proper discussion instead of focusing so hard about the concept of an argument.

There is no discussion with you. Your argument that your video of superior game design arguing that ludology always supersedes narratolgy has been in discussion of game design. If you watched the video from Errant Signal (which had nothing to do clamber by the way but much to do about design and lore) you would have noticed that. But instead you ignored my answer go with an argumentative equivalent of “I’m right and you’re wrong” which tells me that while you preach superior design philosophy you have no design philosophy which is inferior to any other design philosophy (even bad ones), so your position is now lower than lore something you have declared to be at the very bottom. but go ahead and hit that quote button again, after all You are always right and I am always wrong because I don’t hate the things you hate.

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> In which case let me direct you to another video on ludilogical vs naratological debates, and why they are not good arguments.

Can you point out which part of this video makes it not a good argument and explain why? Because as far as I can tell, the relevant part is addressed at the end: “some games might be more story focused, and some might be more mechanically inclined, and some might mix the two really well, but we have to look at what each game is trying to do and address it on its own terms instead of coming up with broad sweeping declarations about how all games should work.” The emhpasis is mine.

The video only arrives to the quite reasonable conclusion that games in general are not about gameplay or narrative, that in general one does not supersede the other. However as is quite clearly acknowledged in the above quotation, individual games can be seen one way or the other.

The issue at hand, and why it does make sense to discuss gameplay and narrative separately, is that gameplay can often be entirely self-supported even if separated from the narrative context. This is obviously not true in general—you’d find little meaning in point and click adventures without the narrative—but it’s obvious that you can play and enjoy the Halo multiplayer while being blissfully unaware of the human Covenant war, or what these people you’re fighting as are. In fact I’d expect that many people were introduced to Halo like that: mutliplayer void of all narrative context, but they still fell in love with the game.

If the gameplay is deep enough that it can be enjoyed separately from the narrative, you can see how a rift might start to form here. Some people see the gameplay as being in service to the narrative. However, others who appreciate the gameplay by itself may not see gameplay design decisions made for sake of narrative as justified if it negatively affects their gameplay experience. It’s a completely reasonable point of view to have. Narrative preference and gameplay preference are both completely valid points of view.

With that said, I think the argument that “Spartans should be able to climb walls like marines” is quite weak no matter how you view it. The issue is that it justifies the mechanic by superficial realism. It’s easy to see that no matter how you slice it, realism doesn’t automatically make for a better experience. Plenty of design decisions exist that go against what ought to be possible exist since making things realistic either conflicts with or is unnecessary for what the game is trying to accomplish. It’s clear that NPCs doing things the player can’t often serves a narrative purpose: even if you could generally clamber in Halo 3, you still wouldn’t be able to follow the marines up the cliff because the narrative of the game necessitates that your paths split.

On this note, NPCs having infinite ammo is not a software limitation. It wouldn’t be too much extra effort to add a counter for every NPC that checks how many shots they have fired and how many times they have reloaded. However, giving NPCs infinite ammo is understandable from a design point of view, for one because counting their ammo is extra work for a situation that would rarely occur, and because enemies eventually running out of ammo if the player just waits long enough could ruin how some encounters play out. It’s an example of a situation where more realism is more work for something that doesn’t necessarily make for a better experience.

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> > > > blah blah…
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> >
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> > > 2666640315087182;2479:
> > > The only argument you have left is “I don’t like it and I don’t want it” which is a terrible solution to any problem.
> >
> > Nope, my argument is and always was "game design supercedes lore." Once you decide to address that part without linking me to someone else’s YouTube video about something entirely different, maybe we can get back to a proper discussion instead of focusing so hard about the concept of an argument.
>
> There is no discussion with you. Your argument that your video of superior game design arguing that ludology always supersedes narratolgy has been in discussion of game design. If you watched the video from Errant Signal (which had nothing to do clamber by the way but much to do about design and lore) you would have noticed that. But instead you ignored my answer go with an argumentative equivalent of “I’m right and you’re wrong” which tells me that while you preach superior design philosophy you have no design philosophy which is inferior to any other design philosophy (even bad ones), so your position is now lower than lore something you have declared to be at the very bottom. but go ahead and hit that quote button again, after all You are always right and I am always wrong because I don’t hate the things you hate.

I actually think that not being able to clamber often times adds realism to the game, because realistically, how many objects and ledges could support a 1000+ pound Spartan in Mjolnir armor, certainly not a few vines that’s for sure.

I’d also like to bring up how at the end of Nightfall in Halo Reach you can see Noble six and Jun crawling prone. Here the game is showing that Spartans can go prone to the player, but it never allows them to do this themselves because it doesn’t work with the game design.

Every single Halo game has had different behaviors between the cutscenes and the gameplay and it has never broke the immersion until Halo 5 where it looked like a poorly written cartoon. The quality of gameplay must always come before lore accurate gameplay, because lore accurate gameplay is often times harmful to the game design and you can never be 100% accurate to the lore or be 100% realistic.

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> > > > > blah blah…
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> > > > 2666640315087182;2479:
> > > > The only argument you have left is “I don’t like it and I don’t want it” which is a terrible solution to any problem.
> > >
> > > Nope, my argument is and always was "game design supercedes lore." Once you decide to address that part without linking me to someone else’s YouTube video about something entirely different, maybe we can get back to a proper discussion instead of focusing so hard about the concept of an argument.
> >
> > There is no discussion with you. Your argument that your video of superior game design arguing that ludology always supersedes narratolgy has been in discussion of game design. If you watched the video from Errant Signal (which had nothing to do clamber by the way but much to do about design and lore) you would have noticed that. But instead you ignored my answer go with an argumentative equivalent of “I’m right and you’re wrong” which tells me that while you preach superior design philosophy you have no design philosophy which is inferior to any other design philosophy (even bad ones), so your position is now lower than lore something you have declared to be at the very bottom. but go ahead and hit that quote button again, after all You are always right and I am always wrong because I don’t hate the things you hate.
>
> I actually think that not being able to clamber often times adds realism to the game, because realistically, how many objects and ledges could support a 1000lb+ Spartan in Mjolnir armor, certainly not a few vines that’s for sure.
>
> I’d also like to bring up how at the end of Nightfall in Halo Reach you can see Noble six and Jun crawling prone. Here the game is showing that Spartans can go prone to the player, but it never allows then to do this themselves because it doesn’t work with the game design.
>
> Every single Halo game has had different behaviors between the cutscenes and the gameplay and it has never broke the immersion until Halo 5 where it looked like a poorly written cartoon. The quality of gameplay must always come before lore accurate gameplay, because lore accurate gameplay is often times harmful to the game design and you can never be 100% accurate to the lore or be 100% realistic.

Well that is the thing, Halo 5 was poorly written and also poorly animated and poorly designed. Clamber is no exception to that. As for it would never be able to support the weight, the spartan can already get on top. All of the objects in Halo are very much rigid, even a wooden pallet supports a 10 ton spartan, and most are rated for more than 500 lbs.

I get why people don’t like it, it more than doubles the jump height, it makes the already flat maps even more like a flat football field, and the 3rd person animation just shows a spartan running up a wall while still facing it. The way it is put in Halo 5 is inexcusable, but then again that is H5 for you. If they could put in Clamber in a way that is much better (lower height, 2 sets of animations, 3rd person view of someone climbing up the wall instead of running) then it would be less of a problem. But so far all I get is the Meta Lame Gameplay argument and a bunch of searching for some other aspect that doesn’t really hold water. You know what ruined halo for me, it wasn’t bloom, it wasn’t armor lock, it was Rankings. That brought in all the cheaters all the people which now placed winning > fun (much like gameplay > lore) and the stupid MLG. Heck 343 even let MLG designed their own Halo game and it sucked. So this is why I see this as a pro-MLG argument and nothing more than that. So anything that gets rid of competitive scene and allows for more creativity, the better.

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> You know what ruined halo for me, it wasn’t bloom, it wasn’t armor lock, it was Rankings. That brought in all the cheaters all the people which now placed winning > fun (much like gameplay > lore) and the stupid MLG. Heck 343 even let MLG designed their own Halo game and it sucked. So this is why I see this as a pro-MLG argument and nothing more than that. So anything that gets rid of competitive scene and allows for more creativity, the better.

What in the world? Listen, if you don’t have a competitive bone in your body, there are still aspects of Halo to enjoy like campaign, forge, social matchmaking or custom games. But instead, you just want to remove an entire community. What a selfish, terrible viewpoint to have.

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As long as I’m still able to sprint and ADS with all weapons i’ll be okay. They can take spartan charge away for all I care

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> Well that is the thing, Halo 5 was poorly written and also poorly animated and poorly designed. Clamber is no exception to that. As for it would never be able to support the weight, the spartan can already get on top. All of the objects in Halo are very much rigid, even a wooden pallet supports a 10 ton spartan, and most are rated for more than 500 lbs.
>
> I get why people don’t like it, it more than doubles the jump height, it makes the already flat maps even more like a flat football field, and the 3rd person animation just shows a spartan running up a wall while still facing it. The way it is put in Halo 5 is inexcusable, but then again that is H5 for you. If they could put in Clamber in a way that is much better (lower height, 2 sets of animations, 3rd person view of someone climbing up the wall instead of running) then it would be less of a problem. But so far all I get is the Meta Lame Gameplay argument and a bunch of searching for some other aspect that doesn’t really hold water.

For someone who told me that all I did was “I’m right you’re wrong”, you sure are willing to be super reductive to my argument, and then dismiss it anyway.

We can make Clamber in any way imaginable, and there will still be a wall that you can’t Clamber over just because the game doesn’t want you to go that way. We’ll add Jetpacks to Halo 3 and you still won’t climb that wall in Halo 3 that the Marines can.

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> You know what ruined halo for me, it wasn’t bloom, it wasn’t armor lock, it was Rankings. That brought in all the cheaters all the people which now placed winning > fun (much like gameplay > lore) and the stupid MLG. Heck 343 even let MLG designed their own Halo game and it sucked. So this is why I see this as a pro-MLG argument and nothing more than that. So anything that gets rid of competitive scene and allows for more creativity, the better.

Wow, finally showing your true colors? You’ve managed to put out both factually incorrect statements and make a sweeping generalization based on nothing but your biased viewpoint towards competitive play.

  • MLG had zero connection to Halo 5 until 2018. - Competitive players in general had a hand in Halo 5, but they didn’t design the game from scratch. - 343i often times didn’t listen to those competitive players.You say Halo 5 sucks because “MLG” designed it, but people trying to make the game less like Halo 5 is making it…more MLG?

It sounds like your only argument for this is “I don’t like it and I don’t want it” which makes for a pretty terrible solution. I wonder where I heard that line from?

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> I just hope they keep clamber. That s**t is amazing.

Except it’s not.

All it is a fancy animation that affects gameplay in a negative manner. It doesn’t allow you to reach higher locations, maps are designed so that you have to use clamber to get to certain places; if you’re not meant to go there, you can’t. If clamber isn’t in the game you’ll still be able to get to that ledge, that ledge will just be accessible with a crouch jump if not a normal jump. You’ll still be unable to get anywhere higher.

Meanwhile while clambering I’m locked into an animation for a few seconds. I can’t aim or use my weapon, nor can I look and move around. I become nothing but a free target. Whereas without clamber, while making a jump I’m free to look around, fire my weapon at an enemy, and evade someone firing at me. I’m not inherently put at a disadvantage because I look cooler for a few seconds.

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Hopefully they get rid of (sliding, clambering, spartan charge, and ground pound) make movement more simple. I’m fine with sprint (even though I personaly hate using it) it can make campaign or BTB or certain maps/situations more fun and unpredictable. Also think thruster can be a unique tool to use in combat instead of only old school strafes

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> > Tbh Infinite is probably gonna be classic halo movement/gameplay, so people who really really really don’t like that well I guess you gotta like classic halo gameplay/movement or just stay on Halo 5.
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> Well the thing is Clamber was already in classic halo, it was just AI only.
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> I mean **a freaking human civilian can climb on top of a wall that a augmented super soldier can’t reach?!?!?**That being said, I do think the clamber animations need to be tighten up, maybe have 2 different animations (both 1st person and 3rd person), one for a low clamber, and on for a much higher that takes around twice as long. Clamber in 3rd person looks very cheap.

Clamber makes sense from a reality standpoint, but from a gameplay standpoint, crouch jump is so much better. It makes it harder for newer players to grasp, because it’s not an in game mechanic. They have to understand what a crouch jump is before they can do it. Clamber removes all the skill from it.

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Personally, I like the idea of mechanics similar to Halo 3, like:

No sprinting
Slow turning
Walking paced movements
Crouch Jumps to get on higher surfaces

It forces you to use your environment and already obtained weapons/vehicles to your advantage and forces you to not go guns blazing like call of duty, in other words, it relies on strategy.

However, I like the idea of halo progressing to include the following:

  • Proning (Let’s be honest, it’s about time it was implemented) - Like other shooters, the advantage of being prone is a much smaller exposed hitbox. The disadvantage is a large blind spot and the inability to look around quickly for those blind spots- YOU ARE PRONE TO BE FLANKED, nice pun yes. - High sensitivity (Let’s face it, as the competitive world gets larger, so do people who can handle “INSANE” rotational speeds, it’s a learnt skill, not a natural born talent) - Sprint- Redundant, right? I think this should stay in some game modes. But I don’t want the community to divide either. I like having sprint in game modes such as infection because it’s fun to have the adrenaline rush through you when you’re knowingly running away from much faster zombies and barely have time to look behind without being killed. Removing sprint puts zombies at a disadvantage like in Halo 3 where almost always you can stay out in the open and pick them off.
    In case I have to reason why we/ I need higher sensitivities

No one is forcing anyone to use higher sensitivity. Some people just practice with higher sensitivities to increase their reaction time. It’s not a natural born talent.

Disadvantage

  • harder to track moving opponentsAdvantage

  • Allows gamers who are adept with reaction time to obtain a reversal on an opponent

I’m not saying my opinion is right at all, just this is what I personally hope for.

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> I like ground pound, charging, and clambering and I’d like to see even more abilities such as wall jumping, booster jumping, and wall running too.
>
> I’d also like to see the return of armor abilities, such as camouflage, projected shielding, and Promethean vision too.
>
> That said I have faith that 343 will do a good job with whatever direction they decide, whether it’s simpler or more complex game mechanics.

I’m just trying to imagine the controller scheme to accommodate all the new abilities , It would truly be an enhanced mobility game that’s for sure

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Personally, I’ve always found enhanced mobility to be logical throughout the Halo story. The UNSC, Spartans, are fighting a constantly evolving and changing enemy. Spartans have been limited to walking or sprinting for a very long time now, and at some point it wouldnt cut it for the Created or the Banished. Trying to walk through a battle where the enemy can teleport, charge, warp, or more would be a death sentence to anyone who cant make up for that with firepower, and I’m pretty sure S-IV’s wouldnt have enough guns on em to control that if all they did was walk. It was time for Spartans and their abilities to evolve to meet those problems. Additionally, technology is constantly evolving; Spartans walking through their battles for the entirety of Halo simply wouldnt make sense through the continuation of time; someone along the line would eventually think “Hey, why don’t we try making Spartans faster by making their suits even more useful than they already are?” Hence, something like Charge, Thrust or ground pound simply makes sense in my mind.

HOWEVER,
From a gameplay perspective, these same traits can make Halo go far too fast or quick to feel right or feel good for people who played earlier Halos. For me, sprint/armor abilities from Reach(except Armor Lock) was where I would’ve preferred the line to be drawn for enhanced movement and gameplay. They helped speed up and change the taste of Halo’s older gameplay styles, while keeping some traditional traits. Halo 5’s enhanced mobility sped things up a bit too fast for me, but even then I played it over time and started to feel okay with it around. Even still, that mobility can kinda ruin games.

I also saw a couple of messages about Clamber and crouch jump, so addressing those:
Clamber has been a thing that many criticize, even myself, of it getting rid of the skill that previous skills covered. It allows players to connect to walls before a fall and pick themselves back up from that ledge, which can kind of kill the point of crouch jumping. But, at the same time, crouch jump has its times where it can genuinely be more useful to turn to compared to clamber. There was a pretty solid video by Aozolai made about the synergy, or coexistence, of Clamber and Crouch Jump in Halo: 5 which touches on the capabilities of both and how they both can work and have their times in Halo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h1L2Kxj8qs
(Halo 5 | Clamber & Crouch Jump Synergy)

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> Personally, I’ve always found enhanced mobility to be logical throughout the Halo story. The UNSC, Spartans, are fighting a constantly evolving and changing enemy. Spartans have been limited to walking or sprinting for a very long time now, and at some point it wouldnt cut it for the Created or the Banished. Trying to walk through a battle where the enemy can teleport, charge, warp, or more would be a death sentence to anyone who cant make up for that with firepower, and I’m pretty sure S-IV’s wouldnt have enough guns on em to control that if all they did was walk. It was time for Spartans and their abilities to evolve to meet those problems. Additionally, technology is constantly evolving; Spartans walking through their battles for the entirety of Halo simply wouldnt make sense through the continuation of time; someone along the line would eventually think “Hey, why don’t we try making Spartans faster by making their suits even more useful than they already are?” Hence, something like Charge, Thrust or ground pound simply makes sense in my mind.
>
> darn, didn’t finish,

Humanity was fighting a war before the Created, against an enemy that was also more technologically advanced, better shields, and can straight up burn a planet when they feel like it.

They also had the ability to use Jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and use Armor Lock for a while. Even Spartan IIs can do that, so it’s not like Spartan IVs are technologically more advanced because their number is higher (look at Spartan IIIs).

This is also the same gameplay series where Spartans die the moment their heads are submerged in water, so all anyone has to do is cause flooding in some areas and they won the war against humanity.

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> > Personally, I’ve always found enhanced mobility to be logical throughout the Halo story. The UNSC, Spartans, are fighting a constantly evolving and changing enemy. Spartans have been limited to walking or sprinting for a very long time now, and at some point it wouldnt cut it for the Created or the Banished. Trying to walk through a battle where the enemy can teleport, charge, warp, or more would be a death sentence to anyone who cant make up for that with firepower, and I’m pretty sure S-IV’s wouldnt have enough guns on em to control that if all they did was walk. It was time for Spartans and their abilities to evolve to meet those problems. Additionally, technology is constantly evolving; Spartans walking through their battles for the entirety of Halo simply wouldnt make sense through the continuation of time; someone along the line would eventually think “Hey, why don’t we try making Spartans faster by making their suits even more useful than they already are?” Hence, something like Charge, Thrust or ground pound simply makes sense in my mind.
> >
> > darn, didn’t finish,
>
> Humanity was fighting a war before the Created, against an enemy that was also more technologically advanced, better shields, and can straight up burn a planet when they feel like it.
>
> They also had the ability to use Jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and use Armor Lock for a while. Even Spartan IIs can do that, so it’s not like Spartan IVs are technologically more advanced because their number is higher (look at Spartan IIIs).
>
> This is also the same gameplay series where Spartans die the moment their heads are submerged in water, so all anyone has to do is cause flooding in some areas and they won the war against humanity.

Yeah, Humanity was fighting a war before the created. Undoubtedly was the Covenant more advanced in many ways against the UNSC. But in those battles, they didnt fight an enemy that has been as technologically advanced as something like the Prometheans or the Created. The Covies didn’t have the ability to use on-hand teleportation or simply warp. They could charge and evade, but in ways that weren’t as mobile as Halo: 5’s enemies were. Even then, the Covenant(or what was left of it) wasn’t as mobile or capable of such movement as compared to the Prometheans. Now, the Covenant has basically collapsed, and what we’re left with is the enemy that would absolutely outpace our Spartans if they couldn’t sprint at the least.

By no means are some different spartan type more advanced because their number is higher. While yes, they can all do these fancy tools, it was the S-IV generation where the enhanced mobility of Halo: 5 that introduced it. S-IIs and S-IIIs can run. They can use jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and Armor Lock. But it was S-IVs that introduced the features of thrust, Ground Pound, and Charge as an actual feature in their suits. The UNSC is growing in tech and researching to face new threats, and the result of this research was the gear S-IVs have in their suits. S-IIIs and S-IIs can at least run, charge their body, and use armor abilities. But if they weren’t given this new generation of suits, it ain’t like their Mark IV/V would magically get an upgrade that gave them some fancy thrusters.

And yep. It is. But who knows, maybe in Infinite they’ll finally research some tech that allows spartans to walk under the water, lol.

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> > > Personally, I’ve always found enhanced mobility to be logical throughout the Halo story. The UNSC, Spartans, are fighting a constantly evolving and changing enemy. Spartans have been limited to walking or sprinting for a very long time now, and at some point it wouldnt cut it for the Created or the Banished. Trying to walk through a battle where the enemy can teleport, charge, warp, or more would be a death sentence to anyone who cant make up for that with firepower, and I’m pretty sure S-IV’s wouldnt have enough guns on em to control that if all they did was walk. It was time for Spartans and their abilities to evolve to meet those problems. Additionally, technology is constantly evolving; Spartans walking through their battles for the entirety of Halo simply wouldnt make sense through the continuation of time; someone along the line would eventually think “Hey, why don’t we try making Spartans faster by making their suits even more useful than they already are?” Hence, something like Charge, Thrust or ground pound simply makes sense in my mind.
> > >
> > > darn, didn’t finish,
> >
> > Humanity was fighting a war before the Created, against an enemy that was also more technologically advanced, better shields, and can straight up burn a planet when they feel like it.
> >
> > They also had the ability to use Jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and use Armor Lock for a while. Even Spartan IIs can do that, so it’s not like Spartan IVs are technologically more advanced because their number is higher (look at Spartan IIIs).
> >
> > This is also the same gameplay series where Spartans die the moment their heads are submerged in water, so all anyone has to do is cause flooding in some areas and they won the war against humanity.
>
> Yeah, Humanity was fighting a war before the created. Undoubtedly was the Covenant more advanced in many ways against the UNSC. But in those battles, they didnt fight an enemy that has been as technologically advanced as something like the Prometheans or the Created. The Covies didn’t have the ability to use on-hand teleportation or simply warp. They could charge and evade, but in ways that weren’t as mobile as Halo: 5’s enemies were. Even then, the Covenant(or what was left of it) wasn’t as mobile or capable of such movement as compared to the Prometheans. Now, the Covenant has basically collapsed, and what we’re left with is the enemy that would absolutely outpace our Spartans if they couldn’t sprint at the least.
>
> By no means are some different spartan type more advanced because their number is higher. While yes, they can all do these fancy tools, it was the S-IV generation where the enhanced mobility of Halo: 5 that introduced it. S-IIs and S-IIIs can run. They can use jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and Armor Lock. But it was S-IVs that introduced the features of thrust, Ground Pound, and Charge as an actual feature in their suits. The UNSC is growing in tech and researching to face new threats, and the result of this research was the gear S-IVs have in their suits. S-IIIs and S-IIs can at least run, charge their body, and use armor abilities. But if they weren’t given this new generation of suits, it ain’t like their Mark IV/V would magically get an upgrade that gave them some fancy thrusters.
>
> And yep. It is. But who knows, maybe in Infinite they’ll finally research some tech that allows spartans to walk under the water, lol.

The point of my comment is that you’re trying to mix game design with the “lore” of the series in ways that were never intended.

We can design Spartans in game to move as fast as we want and do as much crazy stuff as we want, but that just means the enemies will also be increased or decreased to accommodate. Elites will always be X% faster than you, Grunts will always be X% slower than you.

Once we got the ability to use Armor Lock in game, Brutes also had that same ability. In games that take place months in the future, where we don’t use Armor Lock in game, Brutes can no longer use Armor Lock.

In Halo 4, when we had access to Promethean Vision and Auto Turrets, Promethean Knights also have that power. In Halo 5 where we don’t have that power, the Prometheans don’t either.

According to the lore, Spartans can swim in their suits. According to the game, you die.

We’ve somehow managed to have a technological breakthrough, lose said research, gain them back, and lose them again while finding different ones all in about 10 years.

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> > > > Personally, I’ve always found enhanced mobility to be logical throughout the Halo story. The UNSC, Spartans, are fighting a constantly evolving and changing enemy. Spartans have been limited to walking or sprinting for a very long time now, and at some point it wouldnt cut it for the Created or the Banished. Trying to walk through a battle where the enemy can teleport, charge, warp, or more would be a death sentence to anyone who cant make up for that with firepower, and I’m pretty sure S-IV’s wouldnt have enough guns on em to control that if all they did was walk. It was time for Spartans and their abilities to evolve to meet those problems. Additionally, technology is constantly evolving; Spartans walking through their battles for the entirety of Halo simply wouldnt make sense through the continuation of time; someone along the line would eventually think “Hey, why don’t we try making Spartans faster by making their suits even more useful than they already are?” Hence, something like Charge, Thrust or ground pound simply makes sense in my mind.
> > > >
> > > > darn, didn’t finish,
> > >
> > > Humanity was fighting a war before the Created, against an enemy that was also more technologically advanced, better shields, and can straight up burn a planet when they feel like it.
> > >
> > > They also had the ability to use Jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and use Armor Lock for a while. Even Spartan IIs can do that, so it’s not like Spartan IVs are technologically more advanced because their number is higher (look at Spartan IIIs).
> > >
> > > This is also the same gameplay series where Spartans die the moment their heads are submerged in water, so all anyone has to do is cause flooding in some areas and they won the war against humanity.
> >
> > Yeah, Humanity was fighting a war before the created. Undoubtedly was the Covenant more advanced in many ways against the UNSC. But in those battles, they didnt fight an enemy that has been as technologically advanced as something like the Prometheans or the Created. The Covies didn’t have the ability to use on-hand teleportation or simply warp. They could charge and evade, but in ways that weren’t as mobile as Halo: 5’s enemies were. Even then, the Covenant(or what was left of it) wasn’t as mobile or capable of such movement as compared to the Prometheans. Now, the Covenant has basically collapsed, and what we’re left with is the enemy that would absolutely outpace our Spartans if they couldn’t sprint at the least.
> >
> > By no means are some different spartan type more advanced because their number is higher. While yes, they can all do these fancy tools, it was the S-IV generation where the enhanced mobility of Halo: 5 that introduced it. S-IIs and S-IIIs can run. They can use jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and Armor Lock. But it was S-IVs that introduced the features of thrust, Ground Pound, and Charge as an actual feature in their suits. The UNSC is growing in tech and researching to face new threats, and the result of this research was the gear S-IVs have in their suits. S-IIIs and S-IIs can at least run, charge their body, and use armor abilities. But if they weren’t given this new generation of suits, it ain’t like their Mark IV/V would magically get an upgrade that gave them some fancy thrusters.
> >
> > And yep. It is. But who knows, maybe in Infinite they’ll finally research some tech that allows spartans to walk under the water, lol.
>
> The point of my comment is that you’re trying to mix game design with the “lore” of the series in ways that were never intended.
>
> We can design Spartans in game to move as fast as we want and do as much crazy stuff as we want, but that just means the enemies will also be increased or decreased to accommodate. Elites will always be X% faster than you, Grunts will always be X% slower than you.
>
> Once we got the ability to use Armor Lock in game, Brutes also had that same ability. In games that take place months in the future, where we don’t use Armor Lock in game, Brutes can no longer use Armor Lock.
>
> In Halo 4, when we had access to Promethean Vision and Auto Turrets, Promethean Knights also have that power. In Halo 5 where we don’t have that power, the Prometheans don’t either.
>
> According to the lore, Spartans can swim in their suits. According to the game, you die.
>
> We’ve somehow managed to have a technological breakthrough, lose said research, gain them back, and lose them again while finding different ones all in about 10 years.

You and your lame game design concept. This is why I don’t like the meta arguments, you guys have no concept of exploration. I know Halo is a FPS therefore there should only be one type of game play killing. But you know what, in the game that is to be the Halo to end all halos, I’d say bring everything back, re-adjust them to fit in the game but bring it back. But that would be too much for you to comprehend!

2499

> 2666640315087182;2498:
> > 2533274833081329;2497:
> > > 2535412047994244;2496:
> > > > 2533274833081329;2495:
> > > > > 2535412047994244;2494:
> > > > > Personally, I’ve always found enhanced mobility to be logical throughout the Halo story. The UNSC, Spartans, are fighting a constantly evolving and changing enemy. Spartans have been limited to walking or sprinting for a very long time now, and at some point it wouldnt cut it for the Created or the Banished. Trying to walk through a battle where the enemy can teleport, charge, warp, or more would be a death sentence to anyone who cant make up for that with firepower, and I’m pretty sure S-IV’s wouldnt have enough guns on em to control that if all they did was walk. It was time for Spartans and their abilities to evolve to meet those problems. Additionally, technology is constantly evolving; Spartans walking through their battles for the entirety of Halo simply wouldnt make sense through the continuation of time; someone along the line would eventually think “Hey, why don’t we try making Spartans faster by making their suits even more useful than they already are?” Hence, something like Charge, Thrust or ground pound simply makes sense in my mind.
> > > > >
> > > > > darn, didn’t finish,
> > > >
> > > > Humanity was fighting a war before the Created, against an enemy that was also more technologically advanced, better shields, and can straight up burn a planet when they feel like it.
> > > >
> > > > They also had the ability to use Jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and use Armor Lock for a while. Even Spartan IIs can do that, so it’s not like Spartan IVs are technologically more advanced because their number is higher (look at Spartan IIIs).
> > > >
> > > > This is also the same gameplay series where Spartans die the moment their heads are submerged in water, so all anyone has to do is cause flooding in some areas and they won the war against humanity.
> > >
> > > Yeah, Humanity was fighting a war before the created. Undoubtedly was the Covenant more advanced in many ways against the UNSC. But in those battles, they didnt fight an enemy that has been as technologically advanced as something like the Prometheans or the Created. The Covies didn’t have the ability to use on-hand teleportation or simply warp. They could charge and evade, but in ways that weren’t as mobile as Halo: 5’s enemies were. Even then, the Covenant(or what was left of it) wasn’t as mobile or capable of such movement as compared to the Prometheans. Now, the Covenant has basically collapsed, and what we’re left with is the enemy that would absolutely outpace our Spartans if they couldn’t sprint at the least.
> > >
> > > By no means are some different spartan type more advanced because their number is higher. While yes, they can all do these fancy tools, it was the S-IV generation where the enhanced mobility of Halo: 5 that introduced it. S-IIs and S-IIIs can run. They can use jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and Armor Lock. But it was S-IVs that introduced the features of thrust, Ground Pound, and Charge as an actual feature in their suits. The UNSC is growing in tech and researching to face new threats, and the result of this research was the gear S-IVs have in their suits. S-IIIs and S-IIs can at least run, charge their body, and use armor abilities. But if they weren’t given this new generation of suits, it ain’t like their Mark IV/V would magically get an upgrade that gave them some fancy thrusters.
> > >
> > > And yep. It is. But who knows, maybe in Infinite they’ll finally research some tech that allows spartans to walk under the water, lol.
> >
> > The point of my comment is that you’re trying to mix game design with the “lore” of the series in ways that were never intended.
> >
> > We can design Spartans in game to move as fast as we want and do as much crazy stuff as we want, but that just means the enemies will also be increased or decreased to accommodate. Elites will always be X% faster than you, Grunts will always be X% slower than you.
> >
> > Once we got the ability to use Armor Lock in game, Brutes also had that same ability. In games that take place months in the future, where we don’t use Armor Lock in game, Brutes can no longer use Armor Lock.
> >
> > In Halo 4, when we had access to Promethean Vision and Auto Turrets, Promethean Knights also have that power. In Halo 5 where we don’t have that power, the Prometheans don’t either.
> >
> > According to the lore, Spartans can swim in their suits. According to the game, you die.
> >
> > We’ve somehow managed to have a technological breakthrough, lose said research, gain them back, and lose them again while finding different ones all in about 10 years.
>
> You and your lame game design concept. This is why I don’t like the meta arguments, you guys have no concept of exploration. I know Halo is a FPS therefore there should only be one type of game play killing. But you know what, in the game that is to be the Halo to end all halos, I’d say bring everything back, re-adjust them to fit in the game but bring it back. But that would be too much for you to comprehend!

I really hope you’re not just attacking me instead of my argument. Can’t be having that now.

You don’t know what mechanics I do and don’t want. Don’t make assumptions, you’ve already done that when you wanted everything competitive to be removed from the game, when many of us haven’t said anything about rankings at all.

2500

> 2533274833081329;2499:
> > 2666640315087182;2498:
> > > 2533274833081329;2497:
> > > > 2535412047994244;2496:
> > > > > 2533274833081329;2495:
> > > > > > 2535412047994244;2494:
> > > > > > Personally, I’ve always found enhanced mobility to be logical throughout the Halo story. The UNSC, Spartans, are fighting a constantly evolving and changing enemy. Spartans have been limited to walking or sprinting for a very long time now, and at some point it wouldnt cut it for the Created or the Banished. Trying to walk through a battle where the enemy can teleport, charge, warp, or more would be a death sentence to anyone who cant make up for that with firepower, and I’m pretty sure S-IV’s wouldnt have enough guns on em to control that if all they did was walk. It was time for Spartans and their abilities to evolve to meet those problems. Additionally, technology is constantly evolving; Spartans walking through their battles for the entirety of Halo simply wouldnt make sense through the continuation of time; someone along the line would eventually think “Hey, why don’t we try making Spartans faster by making their suits even more useful than they already are?” Hence, something like Charge, Thrust or ground pound simply makes sense in my mind.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > darn, didn’t finish,
> > > > >
> > > > > Humanity was fighting a war before the Created, against an enemy that was also more technologically advanced, better shields, and can straight up burn a planet when they feel like it.
> > > > >
> > > > > They also had the ability to use Jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and use Armor Lock for a while. Even Spartan IIs can do that, so it’s not like Spartan IVs are technologically more advanced because their number is higher (look at Spartan IIIs).
> > > > >
> > > > > This is also the same gameplay series where Spartans die the moment their heads are submerged in water, so all anyone has to do is cause flooding in some areas and they won the war against humanity.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, Humanity was fighting a war before the created. Undoubtedly was the Covenant more advanced in many ways against the UNSC. But in those battles, they didnt fight an enemy that has been as technologically advanced as something like the Prometheans or the Created. The Covies didn’t have the ability to use on-hand teleportation or simply warp. They could charge and evade, but in ways that weren’t as mobile as Halo: 5’s enemies were. Even then, the Covenant(or what was left of it) wasn’t as mobile or capable of such movement as compared to the Prometheans. Now, the Covenant has basically collapsed, and what we’re left with is the enemy that would absolutely outpace our Spartans if they couldn’t sprint at the least.
> > > >
> > > > By no means are some different spartan type more advanced because their number is higher. While yes, they can all do these fancy tools, it was the S-IV generation where the enhanced mobility of Halo: 5 that introduced it. S-IIs and S-IIIs can run. They can use jetpacks, slam their bodies into things, and Armor Lock. But it was S-IVs that introduced the features of thrust, Ground Pound, and Charge as an actual feature in their suits. The UNSC is growing in tech and researching to face new threats, and the result of this research was the gear S-IVs have in their suits. S-IIIs and S-IIs can at least run, charge their body, and use armor abilities. But if they weren’t given this new generation of suits, it ain’t like their Mark IV/V would magically get an upgrade that gave them some fancy thrusters.
> > > >
> > > > And yep. It is. But who knows, maybe in Infinite they’ll finally research some tech that allows spartans to walk under the water, lol.
> > >
> > > The point of my comment is that you’re trying to mix game design with the “lore” of the series in ways that were never intended.
> > >
> > > We can design Spartans in game to move as fast as we want and do as much crazy stuff as we want, but that just means the enemies will also be increased or decreased to accommodate. Elites will always be X% faster than you, Grunts will always be X% slower than you.
> > >
> > > Once we got the ability to use Armor Lock in game, Brutes also had that same ability. In games that take place months in the future, where we don’t use Armor Lock in game, Brutes can no longer use Armor Lock.
> > >
> > > In Halo 4, when we had access to Promethean Vision and Auto Turrets, Promethean Knights also have that power. In Halo 5 where we don’t have that power, the Prometheans don’t either.
> > >
> > > According to the lore, Spartans can swim in their suits. According to the game, you die.
> > >
> > > We’ve somehow managed to have a technological breakthrough, lose said research, gain them back, and lose them again while finding different ones all in about 10 years.
> >
> > You and your lame game design concept. This is why I don’t like the meta arguments, you guys have no concept of exploration. I know Halo is a FPS therefore there should only be one type of game play killing. But you know what, in the game that is to be the Halo to end all halos, I’d say bring everything back, re-adjust them to fit in the game but bring it back. But that would be too much for you to comprehend!
>
> I really hope you’re not just attacking me instead of my argument. Can’t be having that now.
>
> You don’t know what mechanics I do and don’t want. Don’t make assumptions, you’ve already done that when you wanted everything competitive to be removed from the game, when many of us haven’t said anything about rankings at all.

I wasn’t going to reply to you on this thread until I see you attacking a post someone else made just because it counters your bias. So I’ll just leave you with THIS.

2501

> 2666640315087182;2498:
> You and your lame game design concept. This is why I don’t like the meta arguments, you guys have no concept of exploration. I know Halo is a FPS therefore there should only be one type of game play killing. But you know what, in the game that is to be the Halo to end all halos, I’d say bring everything back, re-adjust them to fit in the game but bring it back. But that would be too much for you to comprehend!

So, No explanation on that software limitation which was asked about earlier.

As for the “Halo to end all Halos”, what exactly would would the controll scheme look like?