The return of classic movement mechanics?

[Snockooz]

> 2533274888477235;2420:
> > 2533274825160595;2392:
> > > 2535467241366761;2391:
> > > I really feel that enhanced movement destroys the integrity of the combat, it takes elements like map control, the importance of vehicles, height advantage, etc. and throws those out the window and turns everything into a long range engagement. Classic Halo fans and new fans alike will have a hell of a lot of fun if Halo returns to its roots with movement and combat, just look at the reaction to the old art style! Even if some leave because they prefer enhanced movement, thousands more will flock back to the series because it will be the Halo they remember and true fans will stick with the series regardless.
> >
> > Map control requires maps that have areas you want to control. That’s a problem with halo 5s map design not spartan abilities. Have you even played a BTB match in Halo 5? Because vehicle are definitely still very important and can turn the tide of the intire match. Wait so it destroys hieght advantage and turns every fight into a long ranged engagement? You know those two go hand in hand right? Regardless both are wrong. Warzone is the only game mode with an abundance of long ranged engagements and even then your fighting over bases that require more close quarters combat to both capture and defend. However in mid sized map CQC is still just as prevalent if not more so than LRC and height advantage is probably more prevalent in halo 5 than other halos because of how vertical the maps are.
> >
> > Art style is not gameplay and if Halo infinite just goes back to Halo 2/3 combat then there will be plenty of people that are upset. The fact that this thread is still going proves that there is a lot of people on both sides of this arguement.
>
> Not really man it just proves this FORUM is divided. The other millions of players who liked halos classic gameplay left the franchise when it changed.

All of this is an assumption. I will agree that there is a large portion of players that have left because of modern gameplay mechanics alone. However, to assume that is the soul reason millions have left is ludacris.

Other reasons why people have left. Because bungie is no longer the developer. Adding bloom. Removing dual wielding. Using forge maps as MP maps at launching reach and 5. Using campaign areas as mp maps. Load outs in Halo 4 and reach. Lack of equal starts in reach and 4. Having players start with armor abilities instead of making them map pickups like equipment in 3. Kill streaks in 4. Art style changes. Removal of playable elites. Lackluster forge in 4. Xbox one’s terrible announcement and subsequent sales. MCC launching broken. Halo 5 launching with less content than Halo 2. Microtransactions. Bad armor customization in 5. Lackluster campaign in 5. Maps with 0 map control in 5. Removal of splitscreen in 5. Aging player base. Etc.

The assumption that the majority of people or even a very large chunk of people have left just left because the gameplay isn’t like 2/3’s is just that an assumption. It has not and can not be proven. The largest poll I’ve ever seen on this topic only had around 10,000 votes and about 70-80% were pro classic mechanics. However, 1. People who are upset by the modern mechanic are far more likely to seek out polls like this than people who arent. 2. The are very few forums that can stop people from make multiple account. 3. 10,000 is a fraction of the halo playerbase now and even less of the playerbase back in halo 3 days. 4. It is very unlikely that all of those people would be able to agree on what classic gameplay even is.

[fartwhisperer17]

> 2533274825160595;2422:
> > 2533274888477235;2420:
> > > 2533274825160595;2392:
> > > > 2535467241366761;2391:
> > > > I really feel that enhanced movement destroys the integrity of the combat, it takes elements like map control, the importance of vehicles, height advantage, etc. and throws those out the window and turns everything into a long range engagement. Classic Halo fans and new fans alike will have a hell of a lot of fun if Halo returns to its roots with movement and combat, just look at the reaction to the old art style! Even if some leave because they prefer enhanced movement, thousands more will flock back to the series because it will be the Halo they remember and true fans will stick with the series regardless.
> > >
> > > Map control requires maps that have areas you want to control. That’s a problem with halo 5s map design not spartan abilities. Have you even played a BTB match in Halo 5? Because vehicle are definitely still very important and can turn the tide of the intire match. Wait so it destroys hieght advantage and turns every fight into a long ranged engagement? You know those two go hand in hand right? Regardless both are wrong. Warzone is the only game mode with an abundance of long ranged engagements and even then your fighting over bases that require more close quarters combat to both capture and defend. However in mid sized map CQC is still just as prevalent if not more so than LRC and height advantage is probably more prevalent in halo 5 than other halos because of how vertical the maps are.
> > >
> > > Art style is not gameplay and if Halo infinite just goes back to Halo 2/3 combat then there will be plenty of people that are upset. The fact that this thread is still going proves that there is a lot of people on both sides of this arguement.
> >
> > Not really man it just proves this FORUM is divided. The other millions of players who liked halos classic gameplay left the franchise when it changed.
>
> All of this is an assumption. I will agree that there is a large portion of players that have left because of modern gameplay mechanics alone. However, to assume that is the soul reason millions have left is ludacris.
>
> Other reasons why people have left. Because bungie is no longer the developer. Adding bloom. Removing dual wielding. Using forge maps as MP maps at launching reach and 5. Using campaign areas as mp maps. Load outs in Halo 4 and reach. Lack of equal starts in reach and 4. Having players start with armor abilities instead of making them map pickups like equipment in 3. Kill streaks in 4. Art style changes. Removal of playable elites. Lackluster forge in 4. Xbox one’s terrible announcement and subsequent sales. MCC launching broken. Halo 5 launching with less content than Halo 2. Microtransactions. Bad armor customization in 5. Lackluster campaign in 5. Maps with 0 map control in 5. Removal of splitscreen in 5. Aging player base. Etc.
>
> The assumption that the majority of people or even a very large chunk of people have left just left because the gameplay isn’t like 2/3’s is just that an assumption. It has not and can not be proven. The largest poll I’ve ever seen on this topic only had around 10,000 votes and about 70-80% were pro classic mechanics. However, 1. People who are upset by the modern mechanic are far more likely to seek out polls like this than people who arent. 2. The are very few forums that can stop people from make multiple account. 3. 10,000 is a fraction of the halo playerbase now and even less of the playerbase back in halo 3 days. 4. It is very unlikely that all of those people would be able to agree on what classic gameplay even is.

Theres no arguing these mechanics are good when theres only a fraction of the players left. Its simple. the players who like the new mechanics stayed, and those who didn’t (the vast majority) have left.

[tsassi]

> 2533274888477235;2423:
> Theres no arguing these mechanics are good when theres only a fraction of the players left. Its simple. the players who like the new mechanics stayed, and those who didn’t (the vast majority) have left.

What Snockooz is saying, and you’re ignoring, are the people who left for reasons other than the new mechanics. It’s true that people who stayed are at least fine with the new mechanics, but that’s all. It’s not necessarily true that everyone who likes the new mechanics stayed, or that everyone who left doesn’t like the new mechanics. You can’t infer anything about people’s feelings towards advanced movement from the popularity of Halo 5.

[Snockooz]

For those of you that say Halo’s sales are so low because of the new gameplay mechanics. Explain to me what the difference between Halo 2’s Gameplay and Halo 3’s is?
The Obvious is equipment. But those can change the course of a one on one fight drastically. Just as an example. Bobble shield, while nowhere near as bad armor lock, it still paused combat like armor lock and was a get out of jail free card just like thrusters or sprint. So, besides that whats the difference? Cuz I cant think of anything. But, Some how Halo 3 sold more than 6 million more copies than Halo 2. Also both Reach and 4 sold over 1 million more than Halo 2. Both of those had armor abilities. Now I’m not going to say that Halo 3, 4, and reach were more popular than 2 because of the added abilities. That would be stupid. But, clearly something happened with Halo 3 that Made is so much more popular than Halo 2. And there is now way it could have been the gameplay. Could it have possible been because of the marketing or the sheer hysteria around that game? News outlets where talking about people lining up for miles to buy a video game. This had never happened before and likely will never happen again. I can almost guarantee that there were at least of few people who had never played a video game that bought an 360 and Halo 3 just because of how many people were losing their minds and willing to wait hours if not days in a line to play a video game… But that’s just what i think and there is really no way to know for sure.

[Beckett_3B]

(with the risk of being pedantic) Why not have both?

Have separate playlists for both types. 1v1/2v2/4v4/BTB with classic movement speed (which lately I seem to be enjoying far more than H5 due to how strategical it makes the game feel, how it makes me feel like every move I do I have to plan out, almost like in a fighting game ala Street Fighter) and the same for Sprint gametypes.

With the divide being so clear, wouldn’t it be a shame to alienate either side of the fanbase? Wouldn’t it make more sense to try and bank on both fanbases?
There doesn’t even have to be a specific ‘lore’ reason for the divide between gametypes, let’s be real.

[Ya_Boy_Leonidas]

What new movement mechanic would you add to Halo that you think would bolster the skill gap? (General question)

[tsassi]

> 2533274794648158;2427:
> What new movement mechanic would you add to Halo that you think would bolster the skill gap? (General question)

The honest answer is “I don’t know” because it’s not like I have the ability to prototype mechanics and see how they play out. However, if I had to bet on a single mechanic that hasn’t yet been in Halo, I would go for some form of wall jump. Specifically, not a wall run: there’s a single contact point, and the player can’t move along the wall while in midair.

There are a few advantages to wall jumps which I believe decrease the chances of detrimental effects. It’s tied to map geometry, so if there are no walls to take you anywhere, you won’t get anywhere. This means it has minimal effect on existing movement styles: it doesn’t make, e.g., a regular jump any easier. It’s a very controllable mechanic in map design, because it requires useful walls to be an advantage.

I don’t think it’s a mechanic that will immediately make gameplay depth go through the roof. I don’t believe that kind of mechanics exist. At worst it’s a gimmick that’s mostly just useful for strafing, which isn’t all that interesting. But if accounted for in map design with good understanding and creativity, there’s the potential of making movement a bit more interesting without giving players too much freedom.

[DARTH_CEDIOUS]

> 2533274825830455;2424:
> It’s true that people who stayed are at least fine with the new mechanics, but that’s all.

How would you define “stayed” though? Is buying H5 enough? Paying it for month, a years, until now?
I bought H5 based on it’s amazing marketing campaign that I was naive enough to fall for and on the hope of 343 beeing more open to change. I have to admit, I feel a little bit stupid but I’m most deffinitly not fine with the new mechanics despite buying the game.

> 2533274825830455;2428:
> However, if I had to bet on a single mechanic that hasn’t yet been in Halo, I would go for some form of wall jump. Specifically, not a wall run: there’s a single contact point, and the player can’t move along the wall while in midair.

I think it’s quite funny how many people (including myself) mention wall jump as an interesting idea to include some sort of advanced mobilty into Halo without tampering with it’s core formula while it is one of the few (if not only?) mechanic that 343 activly decided against during devolpment

[tsassi]

> 2533274801973487;2429:
> > 2533274825830455;2424:
> > It’s true that people who stayed are at least fine with the new mechanics, but that’s all.
>
> How would you define “stayed” though? Is buying H5 enough? Paying it for month, a years, until now?
> I bought H5 based on it’s amazing marketing campaign that I was naive enough to fall for and on the hope of 343 beeing more open to change. I have to admit, I feel a little bit stupid but I’m most deffinitly not fine with the new mechanics despite buying the game.

I mean, if we go there, I can say that the binary distinction people make between players who “left” and players who “stayed” is a pretty poor way to talk about the popularity of the game in the first place.

But if you want to know what I had in mind when I wrote that sentence, I mean anyone who comes back to the game to play another match at any meaningful degree of regularity. If you come back over and over again, you at least tolerate every mechanic in the game. You may not like them, you may wish they were removed, but if you return to the game again and again, you haven’t left. Which is why I said “at least fine”, though “at least tolerate” is a better phrasing in hindsight.

[Nuss902928]

> 2535438271253111;2426:
> (with the risk of being pedantic) Why not have both?
>
> Have separate playlists for both types. 1v1/2v2/4v4/BTB with classic movement speed (which lately I seem to be enjoying far more than H5 due to how strategical it makes the game feel, how it makes me feel like every move I do I have to plan out, almost like in a fighting game ala Street Fighter) and the same for Sprint gametypes.
>
> With the divide being so clear, wouldn’t it be a shame to alienate either side of the fanbase? Wouldn’t it make more sense to try and bank on both fanbases?
> There doesn’t even have to be a specific ‘lore’ reason for the divide between gametypes, let’s be real.

It’s not possible to built a game around both movement types. First of all, it would split the playerbase into their preferred playstyles which I think would hurt the longevity of the game, but more importantly it would be impossible to design maps and AI around both movement types.

Every lane and jump in a map has to be designed around the movement speed of the player, which is why enhanced movement is so hard to design maps around because the designers always have to keep two movements speeds in mind. Maps designed for either movement type wouldn’t work for the other and there’s no way that they will be putting twice as many maps in Halo Infinite just to divide the multiplayer base.

AI can’t be built around both movement types, because their accuracy needs to be based around being able to hit a target while it’s moving, and if the target isn’t always moving at the same speed then the AI is either going to be way too accurate or not accurate enough. This is another big problem with enhanced mobility, the AI is designed to be able to hit you while you are sprinting and as a consequence the AI are super accurate and can kill you once you stop sprinting almost immediately.

[King_of_Brunch]

> 2533274825830455;2428:
> > 2533274794648158;2427:
> > What new movement mechanic would you add to Halo that you think would bolster the skill gap? (General question)
>
> The honest answer is “I don’t know” because it’s not like I have the ability to prototype mechanics and see how they play out. However, if I had to bet on a single mechanic that hasn’t yet been in Halo, I would go for some form of wall jump. Specifically, not a wall run: there’s a single contact point, and the player can’t move along the wall while in midair.
>
> There are a few advantages to wall jumps which I believe decrease the chances of detrimental effects. It’s tied to map geometry, so if there are no walls to take you anywhere, you won’t get anywhere. This means it has minimal effect on existing movement styles: it doesn’t make, e.g., a regular jump any easier. It’s a very controllable mechanic in map design, because it requires useful walls to be an advantage.
>
> I don’t think it’s a mechanic that will immediately make gameplay depth go through the roof. I don’t believe that kind of mechanics exist. At worst it’s a gimmick that’s mostly just useful for strafing, which isn’t all that interesting. But if accounted for in map design with good understanding and creativity, there’s the potential of making movement a bit more interesting without giving players too much freedom.

It is hard to speculate without being able to do any sort of testing. I think a double jump would prove interesting.

[tsassi]

> 2533274814210937;2432:
> > 2533274825830455;2428:
> > > 2533274794648158;2427:
> > > What new movement mechanic would you add to Halo that you think would bolster the skill gap? (General question)
> >
> > The honest answer is “I don’t know” because it’s not like I have the ability to prototype mechanics and see how they play out. However, if I had to bet on a single mechanic that hasn’t yet been in Halo, I would go for some form of wall jump. Specifically, not a wall run: there’s a single contact point, and the player can’t move along the wall while in midair.
> >
> > There are a few advantages to wall jumps which I believe decrease the chances of detrimental effects. It’s tied to map geometry, so if there are no walls to take you anywhere, you won’t get anywhere. This means it has minimal effect on existing movement styles: it doesn’t make, e.g., a regular jump any easier. It’s a very controllable mechanic in map design, because it requires useful walls to be an advantage.
> >
> > I don’t think it’s a mechanic that will immediately make gameplay depth go through the roof. I don’t believe that kind of mechanics exist. At worst it’s a gimmick that’s mostly just useful for strafing, which isn’t all that interesting. But if accounted for in map design with good understanding and creativity, there’s the potential of making movement a bit more interesting without giving players too much freedom.
>
> It is hard to speculate without being able to do any sort of testing. I think a double jump would prove interesting.

I don’t. A double jump essentially just increases jump distances. It’s a replacement and a fix mistakes button for regular jumps. I think it offer little possibilities for interesting gameplay dynamics. It’s pretty much everything I tried to avoid by suggesting a wall jump. I don’t think double jump is a useful mechanic to have in a game unless you absolutely need players to be able to make huge jumps.

[Beckett_3B]

> 2535441307847473;2431:
> > 2535438271253111;2426:
> > (with the risk of being pedantic) Why not have both?
> >
> > Have separate playlists for both types. 1v1/2v2/4v4/BTB with classic movement speed (which lately I seem to be enjoying far more than H5 due to how strategical it makes the game feel, how it makes me feel like every move I do I have to plan out, almost like in a fighting game ala Street Fighter) and the same for Sprint gametypes.
> >
> > With the divide being so clear, wouldn’t it be a shame to alienate either side of the fanbase? Wouldn’t it make more sense to try and bank on both fanbases?
> > There doesn’t even have to be a specific ‘lore’ reason for the divide between gametypes, let’s be real.
>
> It’s not possible to built a game around both movement types. First of all, it would split the playerbase into their preferred playstyles which I think would hurt the longevity of the game, but more importantly it would be impossible to design maps and AI around both movement types.
>
> Every lane and jump in a map has to be designed around the movement speed of the player, which is why enhanced movement is so hard to design maps around because the designers always have to keep two movements speeds in mind. Maps designed for either movement type wouldn’t work for the other and there’s no way that they will be putting twice as many maps in Halo Infinite just to divide the multiplayer base.
>
> AI can’t be built around both movement types, because their accuracy needs to be based around being able to hit a target while it’s moving, and if the target isn’t always moving at the same speed then the AI is either going to be way too accurate or not accurate enough. This is another big problem with enhanced mobility, the AI is designed to be able to hit you while you are sprinting and as a consequence the AI are super accurate and can kill you once you stop sprinting almost immediately.

While I understand your reasoning, I don’t necessarily agree.
First off I was only referring to H:I’s MP, I honestly don’t care as much which mechanics they implement in its SP campaign, so designing the AI around it is something not important to me, I’m fine with either. Same goes for Firefight/Warzone/etc, I’m only primarily talking about the pure PvP gamemodes.
Second, would you be splitting the playerbase if the players are still playing the same game/product? I think that by your same logic, the playerbase has been split between people that only play Casual game modes, sweaty Ranked gamemodes, and custom games. They’re still playing the same game, and occasionally some might dabble into other gamemodes they would otherwise avoid. I don’t see how it would split its longevity, but I haven’t given much thought to that. Wouldn’t you, a game company, want your game to have as wide of a playerbase appeal as you could? I do agree that more maps with different designs would have to be made, but seeing as how lack of maps has been a constant complaint for the past few Halo games, I would hope 343i would work on ameliorating this problem for one of the most anticipated titles of at least one platform (the Xbox).
The MCC splits its playerbase all the time, I’m sure there are people who only play H3/H2C/H4/etc and no other gamemodes on the regular. In fact, it can split the playerbase for the exact same reason that started this conversation: people that want classic gameplay would play H1/2/3, those who wanted the more modern approach play H4. Does that have a negative impact on the game’s longevity? It’s possible, but without data, I can’t but speculate.

[Ya_Boy_Leonidas]

> 2533274825830455;2428:
> The honest answer is “I don’t know” because it’s not like I have the ability to prototype mechanics and see how they play out. However, if I had to bet on a single mechanic that hasn’t yet been in Halo, I would go for some form of wall jump. Specifically, not a wall run: there’s a single contact point, and the player can’t move along the wall while in midair.
>
> There are a few advantages to wall jumps which I believe decrease the chances of detrimental effects. It’s tied to map geometry, so if there are no walls to take you anywhere, you won’t get anywhere. This means it has minimal effect on existing movement styles: it doesn’t make, e.g., a regular jump any easier. It’s a very controllable mechanic in map design, because it requires useful walls to be an advantage.
>
> I don’t think it’s a mechanic that will immediately make gameplay depth go through the roof. I don’t believe that kind of mechanics exist. At worst it’s a gimmick that’s mostly just useful for strafing, which isn’t all that interesting. But if accounted for in map design with good understanding and creativity, there’s the potential of making movement a bit more interesting without giving players too much freedom.

This is a neat idea that I could get behind.

1. Would you make the wall jumps stackable similar to Mario games? I imagine this could turn a bit silly in maps with narrow corridors, but maybe each subsequent jump could have a stricter timing window. Also, would it be specific walls only, or would any piece of geometry manage so long as it’s 90 degrees?

2. For strafe purposes, I can picture two options. Once you make contact with the wall, a) leave your left joystick in a more neutral position for a normal floaty jump arc, or b) tilt your left joystick opposite the wall for a more horizontal lateral move.

[tsassi]

> 2533274794648158;2435:
> 1) Would you make the wall jumps stackable similar to Mario games? I imagine this could turn a bit silly in maps with narrow corridors, but maybe each subsequent jump could have a stricter timing window. Also, would it be specific walls only, or would any piece of geometry manage so long as it’s 90 degrees?

It’d have to be chainable. If it’s too easy, making the timing of subsequent jumps stricter could be useful. But in any case, I don’t think a wall jump that’s limited artificially is nearly as interesting.

It should also be possible to pull off on any piece of geometry with the desired properties. I think the best opportunities for interesting jumps are in places that don’t immediately look like they should be possible. There you can reward the people who can develop an understanding of the game’s mechanics and make the connection “hey, this isn’t a wall, but there’s a large enough piece of geometry that it might be possible”.

Of course, once you get down to it, there are a lot of questions about how it interacts with geometry. What sort of angle should a surface triangle have in order to behave like a wall? What do you do with wall geometry that’s clearly a wall, but very uneven because the artists want it that way? What kind of angle to the surface normal the player needs to perform a wall jump? What part of the character needs to be “in contact” with the surface to perform a wall jump? Then there’s of course the question of what kind of timing should you demand from the player. All these implementation details that get really difficult to discuss in the abstract have a huge impact on what kind of wall jump you end up with.

[baaask]

> 2533274825160595;2425:
> For those of you that say Halo’s sales are so low because of the new gameplay mechanics. Explain to me what the difference between Halo 2’s Gameplay and Halo 3’s is?
> The Obvious is equipment. But those can change the course of a one on one fight drastically. Just as an example. Bobble shield, while nowhere near as bad armor lock, it still paused combat like armor lock and was a get out of jail free card just like thrusters or sprint. So, besides that whats the difference? Cuz I cant think of anything. But, Some how Halo 3 sold more than 6 million more copies than Halo 2. Also both Reach and 4 sold over 1 million more than Halo 2. Both of those had armor abilities. Now I’m not going to say that Halo 3, 4, and reach were more popular than 2 because of the added abilities. That would be stupid. But, clearly something happened with Halo 3 that Made is so much more popular than Halo 2. And there is now way it could have been the gameplay. Could it have possible been because of the marketing or the sheer hysteria around that game? News outlets where talking about people lining up for miles to buy a video game. This had never happened before and likely will never happen again. I can almost guarantee that there were at least of few people who had never played a video game that bought an 360 and Halo 3 just because of how many people were losing their minds and willing to wait hours if not days in a line to play a video game… But that’s just what i think and there is really no way to know for sure.

Except you didn’t spawn with the bubble shield already. It was placed on the map to be fought over. Equipment didn’t change the fundamental movement mechanics set forth by the previous Halo’s.

[Nuss902928]

> 2535438271253111;2434:
> > 2535441307847473;2431:
> > > 2535438271253111;2426:
> > > (with the risk of being pedantic) Why not have both?
> > >
> > > Have separate playlists for both types. 1v1/2v2/4v4/BTB with classic movement speed (which lately I seem to be enjoying far more than H5 due to how strategical it makes the game feel, how it makes me feel like every move I do I have to plan out, almost like in a fighting game ala Street Fighter) and the same for Sprint gametypes.
> > >
> > > With the divide being so clear, wouldn’t it be a shame to alienate either side of the fanbase? Wouldn’t it make more sense to try and bank on both fanbases?
> > > There doesn’t even have to be a specific ‘lore’ reason for the divide between gametypes, let’s be real.
> >
> > It’s not possible to built a game around both movement types. First of all, it would split the playerbase into their preferred playstyles which I think would hurt the longevity of the game, but more importantly it would be impossible to design maps and AI around both movement types.
> >
> > Every lane and jump in a map has to be designed around the movement speed of the player, which is why enhanced movement is so hard to design maps around because the designers always have to keep two movements speeds in mind. Maps designed for either movement type wouldn’t work for the other and there’s no way that they will be putting twice as many maps in Halo Infinite just to divide the multiplayer base.
> >
> > AI can’t be built around both movement types, because their accuracy needs to be based around being able to hit a target while it’s moving, and if the target isn’t always moving at the same speed then the AI is either going to be way too accurate or not accurate enough. This is another big problem with enhanced mobility, the AI is designed to be able to hit you while you are sprinting and as a consequence the AI are super accurate and can kill you once you stop sprinting almost immediately.
>
> While I understand your reasoning, I don’t necessarily agree.
> First off I was only referring to H:I’s MP, I honestly don’t care as much which mechanics they implement in its SP campaign, so designing the AI around it is something not important to me, I’m fine with either. Same goes for Firefight/Warzone/etc, I’m only primarily talking about the pure PvP gamemodes.
> Second, would you be splitting the playerbase if the players are still playing the same game/product? I think that by your same logic, the playerbase has been split between people that only play Casual game modes, sweaty Ranked gamemodes, and custom games. They’re still playing the same game, and occasionally some might dabble into other gamemodes they would otherwise avoid. I don’t see how it would split its longevity, but I haven’t given much thought to that. Wouldn’t you, a game company, want your game to have as wide of a playerbase appeal as you could? I do agree that more maps with different designs would have to be made, but seeing as how lack of maps has been a constant complaint for the past few Halo games, I would hope 343i would work on ameliorating this problem for one of the most anticipated titles of at least one platform (the Xbox).
> The MCC splits its playerbase all the time, I’m sure there are people who only play H3/H2C/H4/etc and no other gamemodes on the regular. In fact, it can split the playerbase for the exact same reason that started this conversation: people that want classic gameplay would play H1/2/3, those who wanted the more modern approach play H4. Does that have a negative impact on the game’s longevity? It’s possible, but without data, I can’t but speculate.

The mere fact that both the campaign and Warzone Firefight would have to be based around one type of movement type would cause a huge rift in the community. You may not care either way but most people do. People aren’t going to like having to play with a completely different movement style to play campaign and Warzone Firefight then they do in multiplayer. People will feel like they aren’t as important if the campaign is designed in a different way then how they like to play in multiplayer and they won’t replay the campaign for fun anywhere near as often. At the same time the people who play with the same movement type in multiplayer will most likely get very smug about it, which is one of the reasons why I think the multiplayer playerbase will be split.

The other reasons why I think the multiplayer playerbase would be split is that there is usually a general consensus on what the best and worst maps are, and if one movement type has a better or worse average of good and bad maps then they may not retain their playerbase as long or they will feel like the map quality between the two playerbases is unfair. Secondly, most people are very set in which movement type they prefer, and they will only play the other movement playlists every once in a while or maybe to unlock some achivments and challenges. Lastly, it’s almost certain that one of the playlists will be less popular and will lose it’s playerbase much faster than the other, and at that point it will seem like the game is partially empty and any challenges or achievments made for those playlists will be very hard to unlock.

Also, I don’t think that making a game for the widest audience possible is a good idea, because the game will have to be changed to have appeal for a wider audience which will damage the quality of the game overall and the enjoyment of most hardcore fans. That and most new/casual players won’t keep playing the game for nearly as long, so it really doesn’t even help the community much at all.

[Snockooz]

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> > For those of you that say Halo’s sales are so low because of the new gameplay mechanics. Explain to me what the difference between Halo 2’s Gameplay and Halo 3’s is?
> > The Obvious is equipment. But those can change the course of a one on one fight drastically. Just as an example. Bobble shield, while nowhere near as bad armor lock, it still paused combat like armor lock and was a get out of jail free card just like thrusters or sprint. So, besides that whats the difference? Cuz I cant think of anything. But, Some how Halo 3 sold more than 6 million more copies than Halo 2. Also both Reach and 4 sold over 1 million more than Halo 2. Both of those had armor abilities. Now I’m not going to say that Halo 3, 4, and reach were more popular than 2 because of the added abilities. That would be stupid. But, clearly something happened with Halo 3 that Made is so much more popular than Halo 2. And there is now way it could have been the gameplay. Could it have possible been because of the marketing or the sheer hysteria around that game? News outlets where talking about people lining up for miles to buy a video game. This had never happened before and likely will never happen again. I can almost guarantee that there were at least of few people who had never played a video game that bought an 360 and Halo 3 just because of how many people were losing their minds and willing to wait hours if not days in a line to play a video game… But that’s just what i think and there is really no way to know for sure.
>
> Except you didn’t spawn with the bubble shield already. It was placed on the map to be fought over. Equipment didn’t change the fundamental movement mechanics set forth by the previous Halo’s.

I know that. My point, that you seem to have ignored, is that the only real change to halo 3’s gameplay from halo 2 is equipment. And even though they spawn on the map they still added a level of randomness to the gameplay. halo 3 sold 6 million more copies than halo 2 yet the both have practically the same movement mechanics. So, its wasnt because of “classic movement mechanics”. Both halo reach and 4 sold better than 2 and they did fundamentally change movement mechanics. Also like I said before i also don’t think it was because of equipment or armor abilities either. Another thing, while not as drastic, gravity lift and drop shield both could change how a player could move on map.

[Ya_Boy_Leonidas]

I’m not sure why sales numbers are even coming up in this conversation. People buy games before experiencing them in any meaningful capacity. A much more relevant statistic would be player retention.

[V4L4KH]

I really don’t get why this have to be a damn issue, I mean, they can code BOTH gameplay styles isn’t it?, then just give the player the chance to walk around pointing their gun and falling from ledges like the good old days, and give the chance to change to modern mechanics like sprint, grab ledges and have more movement animations, HELL it would be -Yoinking!- awesome have a red vs blue match one team with classic mechanics vs team with modern mechanics just for the hell of it. Even further you can have TWO GAMES in by the price of one, just go trough the campaign on classic, THEN replay on modern, that would be ZOMG teh BEAST!

PD - One game already did this an is called DEAD SPACE 3, may not be the most popular, but I enjoyed it when it was released