The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > > But classic h1-3 movement mechanics won’t be making a return bungie and 343i are committed to enhanced movement mechanics .
> >
> > Says who? Do you have an official statement from 343i confirming that they are going forward with advanced movement in Infinite?
>
> Me , I just did in my subjective opinion.
> No I don’t have a 343i quote hence the subjective opinion comment if you read through to the end rather than cherry picking the parts you wish to debate

Both “classic h1-3 movement mechanics won’t be making a return” and “343i [is] committed to enhanced movement mechanics” about the state of reality. They’re testable statements and hence not subjective. If they’re something you believe but are not certain about, you could preface them with “I believe” or “I think”. However, if you believe these statements and don’t have any evidence to share with us, then why? What makes you believe that 343i will not give up advanced movement?

It’s fine to have opinions, but saying “these are my subjective opinions” doesn’t shield your comments from criticism if some of the claims you make are not subjective. It’s also good to have an understanding of which of your statements aren’t subjective and which are.

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> > 2535406126289417;2241:
> > > 2533274825830455;2240:
> > > > 2535406126289417;2239:
> > > > But classic h1-3 movement mechanics won’t be making a return bungie and 343i are committed to enhanced movement mechanics .
> > >
> > > Says who? Do you have an official statement from 343i confirming that they are going forward with advanced movement in Infinite?
> >
> > Me , I just did in my subjective opinion.
> > No I don’t have a 343i quote hence the subjective opinion comment if you read through to the end rather than cherry picking the parts you wish to debate
>
> Both “classic h1-3 movement mechanics won’t be making a return” and “343i [is] committed to enhanced movement mechanics” about the state of reality. They’re testable statements and hence not subjective. If they’re something you believe but are not certain about, you could preface them with “I believe” or “I think”. However, if you believe these statements and don’t have any evidence to share with us, then why? What makes you believe that 343i will not give up advanced movement?
>
> It’s fine to have opinions, but saying “these are my subjective opinions” doesn’t shield your comments from criticism if some of the claims you make are not subjective. It’s also good to have an understanding of which of your statements aren’t subjective and which are.

True , I certainly could have written and expressed my point of view with more clarity , although I do regard the audience here on waypoint are across all things halo and can intelligently decipher that my (claims ) are indeed just poorly worded opinions .
Too answer your question as to why I honestly think/believe that 343i won’t give up on enhanced movement mechanics for infinite
1.Experience 343i have been refining this feature since the bungie changeover , I am doubtful that with the knowledge gleaned up to this point they would suddenly abandon this mechanic in favour of straight classic movement which as a franchise isn’t really in their wheelhouse .
2 history , halo has had an enhanced movement mechanic since 2010 around half its gaming life
3evolution ,modern fps AAA gaming trends have all gone down an enhanced or at least up tempo Movement mechanics route . 343i are like all devs are slaves to trends as a commercial reality
3 media, by reading and watching the limited 343i media spots my interpretation of the messaging is one a enhanced mobility path is here to stay for the foreseeable future

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> 1.Experience 343i have been refining this feature since the bungie changeover , I am doubtful that with the knowledge gleaned up to this point they would suddenly abandon this mechanic in favour of straight classic movement which as a franchise isn’t really in their wheelhouse .

There has really only been one game thus far with advanced movement. I’m sure 343i has learned something from working with it, but the same could be said about loadouts and armor abilities. Could 343i have produced a better loadout Halo with the experience they gained from Halo 4? Probably, but they chose not to.

I don’t really agree that classic movement isn’t in their wheelhouse. Or rather, if classic movement isn’t in their wheelhouse, then they certainly aren’t capable of handling advanced movement. After all, classic movement is the purest form of FPS movement. It is the basics of FPS movement design. If you don’t have solid grasp of the basics, you’re not prepared to handle anything more complicated. I’d fully expect 343i to be able to design a classic Halo that plays at least as well as Halo 5. (Depending on one’s position, this may or may not say much.)

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> 2 history , halo has had an enhanced movement mechanic since 2010 around half its gaming life

That’s one way to look at it. The other way is that the mechanics of Halo have been in constant flux since 2010. 343i, in particular, has not been able to retain a gameplay formula for two games in a row. if Halo 5 took on a drastically different direction from Halo 4, who is to say that the same won’t happen with Halo Infinite?

If there’s one thing 343i hasn’t been able to establish this far, it’s consistency, and I have reason to believe that hasn’t changed. Everything we know about Halo Infinite seems like a drastic departure from Halo 5 stylistically. The art direction is a pretty obvious one, but also how they’re marketing the game in the trailer. They’re not marketing the story (as they did with past games) as much as they are marketing the world. Moreover, both these things, according to their own words are inspired by classic Halo.

None of this necessarily implies anything about gameplay. But the point is that they’re clearly distancing themselves from Halo 5 in multiple ways, which suggests that the internal direction and attitudes within the studio might have changed yet again.

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> 3evolution ,modern fps AAA gaming trends have all gone down an enhanced or at least up tempo Movement mechanics route . 343i are like all devs are slaves to trends as a commercial reality

Advanced movement is more of a 2013 trend. The industry has moved on since then: CoD backed away and went to its roots, CSGO has become massive, battle royale games with relatively simple movement and slow pace are really popular. There is no discernible advanced movement trend anymore. In fact, I’d say that the shooter genre today seems much less unified in its direction than it was nine years ago. I could claim that establishing a unique style and doing your own thing is more important for surviving in today’s landscape than before.

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> 3 media, by reading and watching the limited 343i media spots my interpretation of the messaging is one a enhanced mobility path is here to stay for the foreseeable future

Any particular examples? Quotes?

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> > 2535406126289417;2239:
> > But classic h1-3 movement mechanics won’t be making a return bungie and 343i are committed to enhanced movement mechanics .
>
> Says who? Do you have an official statement from 343i confirming that they are going forward with advanced movement in Infinite?

Well, technically we do have a quote from Frankie about H5G’s multiplayer at the very least being the baseline for future titles:

> Halo 5’s core MP is a thing that would be refined and tuned in the future, not rebooted, reinvented or reset. That doesn’t preclude any number of improvements, additions or completely new modes and methods of play, but the team does recognize the core strengths, advantages and extensibility of the current MP tune.
>
> It’s elementary.

To be fair, that is not an end-all-be-all statement, and it was made almost three years ago and before a wave of layoffs and internal changes within 343, but it paints a picture that at least at that time, they wanted to go forward with the H5G-style gameplay. As for campaign, they’ve always been adamant that they don’t want to offer two different experiences, so it would follow suit. (Which is strange, given that mechanics already work differently between SP and MP in H5G, such as recharge delay from sprint, etc.)

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> > .
> > the other side wane keep it in the game.
>
> Again, why?
> Every time you get asked that question, you suddenly change your answer.
>
> If there is a problem with removing Sprint but giving you the same benefits, *explain what the problem is.*Stop dancing around the question and answer it directly.

i can give a full list off it with reasons there wane keep it in the game.
but if you scoll some page’s back and also look on the other thread about sprint that got a huge nummer off page’s longer then this thread then you read also that some off then not wane see it remove from the game.
my reasons are that i like it to stay it since i am use to it and go back to the crap basic moving speed only is for me not the halo game i know and its something i am used to have now in halo the sprint.
i was playling last few day’s the MCC on the halo 3 campaign and you know how it feels like it was from a good campaign back then feels it now more stupid to play snice i was used to play it with sprint and i have stop playing it since the feeling was more gone for the basic moving speed only.
halo reach,halo 4 and halo 5 have become more for me halo’s i like to play more then the old one.
for me it feels good to have sprint in the halo game and maybe thats also the reason some others have for it there like it better then without.

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> > 2533274825830455;2240:
> > > 2535406126289417;2239:
> > > But classic h1-3 movement mechanics won’t be making a return bungie and 343i are committed to enhanced movement mechanics .
> >
> > Says who? Do you have an official statement from 343i confirming that they are going forward with advanced movement in Infinite?
>
> Well, technically we do have a quote from Frankie about H5G’s multiplayer at the very least being the baseline for future titles:
>
>
> > Halo 5’s core MP is a thing that would be refined and tuned in the future, not rebooted, reinvented or reset. That doesn’t preclude any number of improvements, additions or completely new modes and methods of play, but the team does recognize the core strengths, advantages and extensibility of the current MP tune.
> > It’s elementary.
>
> https://www.neogaf.com/threads/halo-5-active-players-is-the-highest-since-halo-3-even-before-the-free-play-period.1244023/page-6To be fair, that is not an end-all-be-all statement, and it was made before a huge wave of layoffs and internal changes within 343, but it paints a picture that at least at that time, they wanted to go forward with the H5G-style gameplay. As for campaign, they’ve always been adamant that they don’t want to offer two different experiences, so it would follow suit. (Which is strange, given that mechanics already work differently between SP and MP in H5G, such as recharge delay from sprint, etc.)

I had forgotten about that comment, but I do feel like a lot has changed since 2016. However, I’m definitely not holding my breath one way or the other.

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> > 2533274801176260;2245:
> > > 2533274825830455;2240:
> > > > 2535406126289417;2239:
> > > > But classic h1-3 movement mechanics won’t be making a return bungie and 343i are committed to enhanced movement mechanics .
> > >
> > > Says who? Do you have an official statement from 343i confirming that they are going forward with advanced movement in Infinite?
> >
> > Well, technically we do have a quote from Frankie about H5G’s multiplayer at the very least being the baseline for future titles:
> >
> >
> > > Halo 5’s core MP is a thing that would be refined and tuned in the future, not rebooted, reinvented or reset. That doesn’t preclude any number of improvements, additions or completely new modes and methods of play, but the team does recognize the core strengths, advantages and extensibility of the current MP tune.
> > > It’s elementary.
> >
> > https://www.neogaf.com/threads/halo-5-active-players-is-the-highest-since-halo-3-even-before-the-free-play-period.1244023/page-6To be fair, that is not an end-all-be-all statement, and it was made before a huge wave of layoffs and internal changes within 343, but it paints a picture that at least at that time, they wanted to go forward with the H5G-style gameplay. As for campaign, they’ve always been adamant that they don’t want to offer two different experiences, so it would follow suit. (Which is strange, given that mechanics already work differently between SP and MP in H5G, such as recharge delay from sprint, etc.)
>
> I had forgotten about that comment, but I do feel like a lot has changed since 2016. However, I’m definitely not holding my breath one way or the other.

Frankie actually responded to that comment about “moving forward with advanced movement” on reddit and said it was taken out of context despite what he said. He also said nothing is set in stone and to take his words lightly, considering that post was originally made in 2016. Over 3 years ago.

Bit of googling can find his response that I’m referring to.

EDIT: Here is his response to that comment as of 3 months ago

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> > 2533274801176260;2245:
> > > 2533274825830455;2240:
> > > > 2535406126289417;2239:
> > > > But classic h1-3 movement mechanics won’t be making a return bungie and 343i are committed to enhanced movement mechanics .
> > >
> > > Says who? Do you have an official statement from 343i confirming that they are going forward with advanced movement in Infinite?
> >
> > Well, technically we do have a quote from Frankie about H5G’s multiplayer at the very least being the baseline for future titles:
> >
> >
> > > Halo 5’s core MP is a thing that would be refined and tuned in the future, not rebooted, reinvented or reset. That doesn’t preclude any number of improvements, additions or completely new modes and methods of play, but the team does recognize the core strengths, advantages and extensibility of the current MP tune.
> > > It’s elementary.
> >
> > https://www.neogaf.com/threads/halo-5-active-players-is-the-highest-since-halo-3-even-before-the-free-play-period.1244023/page-6To be fair, that is not an end-all-be-all statement, and it was made before a huge wave of layoffs and internal changes within 343, but it paints a picture that at least at that time, they wanted to go forward with the H5G-style gameplay. As for campaign, they’ve always been adamant that they don’t want to offer two different experiences, so it would follow suit. (Which is strange, given that mechanics already work differently between SP and MP in H5G, such as recharge delay from sprint, etc.)
>
> I had forgotten about that comment, but I do feel like a lot has changed since 2016. However, I’m definitely not holding my breath one way or the other.

I personally would welcome a classic halo. I started on the OG Xbox and still play CE and H2 on my original Xbox a crt TV. But I wouldn’t be upset with an enhanced movement mechanic either, the story and so many other game play elements really hold the key to a fun immersive halo game.

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> Frankie actually responded to that comment about “moving forward with advanced movement” on reddit and said it was taken out of context despite what he said. He also said nothing is set in stone and to take his words lightly, considering that interview was originally done in 2016. Over 3 years ago.
>
> Bit of googling can find his response that I’m referring to.

I guess this is what you’re referring to:

> Do you have a link to the story this screenshot is sourced from? Because those quotes are seriously decontextualized in this format and while I may well have said those things, I’d have been careful to avoid specific inferences or exclusions. That’s not going to stop people jumping to conclusions that they want to insist are true, but it’s not making them accurate either.

Considering this is over two and a half years after the original comment, I’m not sure whether Frankie even recognized where this quote was from. It’s certainly a strange response, considering that if you look at the original NeoGAF thread, there’s really no further context. Frankie isn’t even quoting anyone, so the comment is entirely self-contained. There is no additional context to the comment that’d change its interpretation. It’s a pretty clear “yup, the core of Halo 5 MP is the way forward”. The only thing keeping it vague is the exact meaning of “core”.

If I were one to jump into conclusions—and I’m not—I might suggest that what Frankie had said in the NeoGAF post didn’t hold true three months ago, which would prompt Frankie to try to mitigate his own words.

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> > 2533274833081329;2236:
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> > > .
> > > the other side wane keep it in the game.
> >
> > Again, why?
> > Every time you get asked that question, you suddenly change your answer.
> >
> > If there is a problem with removing Sprint but giving you the same benefits, *explain what the problem is.*Stop dancing around the question and answer it directly.
>
> i can give a full list off it with reasons there wane keep it in the game.
> but if you scoll some page’s back and also look on the other thread about sprint that got a huge nummer off page’s longer then this thread then you read also that some off then not wane see it remove from the game.
> my reasons are that i like it to stay it since i am use to it and go back to the crap basic moving speed only is for me not the halo game i know and its something i am used to have now in halo the sprint.
> i was playling last few day’s the MCC on the halo 3 campaign and you know how it feels like it was from a good campaign back then feels it now more stupid to play snice i was used to play it with sprint and i have stop playing it since the feeling was more gone for the basic moving speed only.
> halo reach,halo 4 and halo 5 have become more for me halo’s i like to play more then the old one.
> for me it feels good to have sprint in the halo game and maybe thats also the reason some others have for it there like it better then without.

So at the end of the day, getting down to the nitty gritty, you’re just more used to Sprint.

It’s not about gameplay balance, or what 343 thinks, or difficulty or how a “shooter” works, you are just more used to Sprint so no matter what Sprint has to stay.

Even if we made some magical ability that was better than Sprint in every possible way, doesn’t matter because it’s not Sprint and therefore you won’t see reason to accept it.

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> 2533274833081329;2251:
> So at the end of the day, getting down to the nitty gritty, you’re just more used to Sprint.It’s not about gameplay balance, or what 343 thinks, or difficulty or how a “shooter” works, you are just more used to Sprint so no matter what Sprint has to stay.Even if we made some magical ability that was better than Sprint in every possible way, doesn’t matter because it’s not Sprint and therefore you won’t see reason to accept it.

that was my own reason why i like to see sprint stay in halo all there use the halo reach sprint system then i am still happy about it or there have it in diffrend way i not care what for type mechanic there gone add sprint so long it has sprint i am still happy with it since i not like to see the basic moving speed only in the game since its then looking old for me what a new game has become.

and for the other comunnety members that like also sprint to stay in halo have there own reasons why there like to see sprint stay in the game thats there reason there wane see sprint again in the halo game.

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> 2533274823394867;2252:
> > 2533274833081329;2251:
> > So at the end of the day, getting down to the nitty gritty, you’re just more used to Sprint.It’s not about gameplay balance, or what 343 thinks, or difficulty or how a “shooter” works, you are just more used to Sprint so no matter what Sprint has to stay.Even if we made some magical ability that was better than Sprint in every possible way, doesn’t matter because it’s not Sprint and therefore you won’t see reason to accept it.
>
> that was my own reason why i like to see sprint stay in halo all there use the halo reach sprint system then i am still happy about it or there have it in diffrend way i not care what for type mechanic there gone add sprint so long it has sprint i am still happy with it since i not like to see the basic moving speed only in the game since its then looking old for me what a new game has become.
>
> and for the other comunnety members that like also sprint to stay in halo have there own reasons why there like to see sprint stay in the game thats there reason there wane see sprint again in the halo game.

Despite all those reasons you or anyone else could come up with, that’s why I consistently ask the same question and rarely get an answer. **What is it about Sprint that no other alternative can fulfill?**If it’s the speed, the controller layout, the design, etc. then in theory, some other mechanic should be able to do the same thing, if not better.

But if you only want it for familiarity or other superficial reasons, there’s nothing to argue about. It’s not to benefit or change the game, it’s to change your perception of the game. I mean, you’re willing to go to a self-proclaimed inferior version of Sprint just so you can say there is Sprint…somewhere.

> since i not like to see the basic moving speed only in the game since its then looking old for me what a new game has become.

But Sprint is 20+ years old. Sprint is older than Halo. Why is a game with Sprint not old by your very definition?

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All we need to keep is sprint. Everything else can go away.

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Played Halo 3 today with movement speed set to 110%. Felt absolutely great.
Walking at half-speed felt the same as Halo 5’s bms. And walking normally felt like Halo 5’s sprint. But I could still shoot, grenade, and melee.

Sprint is not needed in Halo. It’s unnecessary.

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> 2533274823912857;2255:
> Played Halo 3 today with movement speed set to 110%. Felt absolutely great.
> Walking at half-speed felt the same as Halo 5’s bms. And walking normally felt like Halo 5’s sprint. But I could still shoot, grenade, and melee.
>
> Sprint is not needed in Halo. It’s unnecessary.

Thank you for pointing this out! this needs to be heard

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> All we need to keep is sprint. Everything else can go away.

sprint is game breaking

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> 2533274823912857;2255:
> Played Halo 3 today with movement speed set to 110%. Felt absolutely great.
> Walking at half-speed felt the same as Halo 5’s bms. And walking normally felt like Halo 5’s sprint. But I could still shoot, grenade, and melee.

Your feelings are of course yours, but between the Halo 3 110% speed being still lower than Halo 5 BMS, and the narrow field of view, I doubt most people would feel the same way.

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Build a wall! keep out the Sprint supporters! Make Halo great again!!!

JK jk

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> 2533274825830455;2258:
> > 2533274823912857;2255:
> > Played Halo 3 today with movement speed set to 110%. Felt absolutely great.
> > Walking at half-speed felt the same as Halo 5’s bms. And walking normally felt like Halo 5’s sprint. But I could still shoot, grenade, and melee.
>
> Your feelings are of course yours, but between the Halo 3 110% speed being still lower than Halo 5 BMS, and the narrow field of view, I doubt most people would feel the same way.

Halo 5’s maps are stretched out to accommodate the difference. That + the FOV is why you feel like you’re going faster but you’re actually not.
Example: Enhanced Mobility is a Lie in 90 Seconds - YouTube

Example: Movespeed Comparisons - Halo 3 and Halo 5 - YouTube

Sprint is an illusion.

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> 2533274823912857;2260:
> > 2533274825830455;2258:
> > > 2533274823912857;2255:
> > > Played Halo 3 today with movement speed set to 110%. Felt absolutely great.
> > > Walking at half-speed felt the same as Halo 5’s bms. And walking normally felt like Halo 5’s sprint. But I could still shoot, grenade, and melee.
> >
> > Your feelings are of course yours, but between the Halo 3 110% speed being still lower than Halo 5 BMS, and the narrow field of view, I doubt most people would feel the same way.
>
> Halo 5’s maps are stretched out to accommodate the difference. That + the FOV is why you feel like you’re going faster but you’re actually not.
> Example: Enhanced Mobility is a Lie in 90 Seconds - YouTube
>
> Also Halo 3’s base movement speed is actually faster than Halo 5’s. The sprint only makes you slightly faster than Halo 3’s bms when in use.
> Example: Movespeed Comparisons - Halo 3 and Halo 5 - YouTube
>
> Halo 3 BMS: 7.53
> Halo 5 BMS: 10.46
> Halo 5 BMS + Sprint: 8.43

You are correct that Halo 5 maps are generally larger than Halo 3 maps. In particular, Truth is larger than its predecessor Heretic. However, you’re incorrect about everything else.

First, the fact that maps in Halo 5 are generally larger doesn’t make you feel faster. It’s the exact opposite: having more ground to cover makes it seem like you’re moving slower. Hence the Halo 5 BMS doesn’t feel as fast as it actually is.

This gets us to the topic of BMS and the videos you posted. In Halo 3 it takes less time than Halo 5 to take the corresponding route, because Heretic is a smaller map than Truth. These videos, by themselves, tell us nothing about the relation between the base movement speeds of the two games.

As I said, the base movement speed in Halo 3 is in fact lower than in Halo 5. In the original trilogy, the base movement speed is 2.25 world units per second (see the description of this video). In Halo 5 it is 2.6 world units per second (see this video and the description). The Halo 5 sprint speed is in fact 3.38 world units per second. Hence the Halo 5 BMS is about 116% of Halo 3 BMS (thus slightly faster than Halo 3 at 110%), and the Halo 5 sprint speed is as much as 150% of the Halo 3 BMS.