The removal of thrusters in Halo 6

Community General Discussion
1

I know a lot of people hate on a lot of (or all of) the Spartan Abilities in H5G. While I myself don’t have any personal qualms with them, I can understand people’s gripes. With that said, I think there’s a solution to keep the game “evolved” and not completely backtracking, while also giving a feel of return to a more simplistic time of Halo.

Here’s my idea (if you couldn’t guess from the title):

Remove thrusters (gasp!)
This isn’t as cut and dry as it seems at first glance, however. The removal of the thruster from Spartans would change the entire platform of the Spartan Abilities. Consider these changes:

  • Thruster pack: removed entirely - Spartan charge: majorly nerfed, while still limited to use only during sprint - Sprint: either A) speed will not be maintained indefinitely, instead, limited bursts of (nerfed) speed; or B) increase base movement speed (slightly) - Ground Pount: removed entirely - Slide: removed entirely - Smart Scope: replaced with HUD viewing (canonical!), possibly switch ADS (no advantage, no magnifier) if descoped (not sure about this at all, just throwing it out there) - Stabilize: removed entirely - Clamber: animation slowed to encourage more standard (crouch) jumping (only if map design priority isn’t for clamber use)The point of this is to make Spartan Abilities (as the name suggests) only revolving around what the Spartan, independent of their armor, could do.

This would help clear one button entirely (for use possibly w/ equipment, dual-wielding, or some new feature), plus the button combinations involving the thruster. This would slow down the gameplay while still allowing the player feel like a Spartan with a great many inherent capabilities.

What do you guys think? Other than the ones clamoring for just a remake of Halo 3, how do we/343i try and keep the feel of players being Spartans, while also attempting to return the feel of gameplay closer to a style resembling the Halo we all love?

2

With the exception of Spartan Charge, I really do enjoy the Spartan Abilities. The Ground Pound is surprisingly versatile as you can launch a surprise attack, finish off a damaged vehicle, traverse across a map in a single bound, or make a hasty escape.

3

no

4

> 2535429593088083;2:
> With the exception of Spartan Charge, I really do enjoy the Spartan Abilities. The Ground Pound is surprisingly versatile as you can launch a surprise attack, finish off a damaged vehicle, traverse across a map in a single bound, or make a hasty escape.

I agree that the Spartan Abilities (even just as they are in H5G) are extremely enjoyable. I think, however, because they are so divisive, they should be maintained/modified to be add-ons for custom games. I’m not sure how to implement this, but I feel like there has to be a balance, or we’re just doomed to continue walking down the path of dissatisfied “fans”.

> 2535453495391865;3:
> no

What are you responding to? Please respond specifically to what you disagree with, and why.

5

Wait. You’d get rid of thrusters. but keep spartan charge? I honestly think that’s really stupid. I’d rather keep Thrusters and Sprint bare minimum and throw Spartan Charge out the window. Gone, no spartan charge at all.

Slide is fine. (and fun with speed boosts)

stabilize is fine.

Clamber is eh. I don’t really care if it leaves or stays.

Aiming with Smart-Link and Smart-Scope only have really minor differences. So I don’t really care there.

> 2533274808000461;1:
> return the feel of gameplay closer to a style resembling the Halo we all love?

And this is purely subjective. Do not assume other’s gasp subjective opinions of what “halo we love” is, Halo I love is Halo 2. Not 3 or Reach as other’s are, and “classic” so vague, that to me classic is purely Halo: CE, not 2, 3, ODST, Reach, 4 or 5 that follow. So what “we love” is so subjective that if we go back to Grueling CE, Invincible Vehicles, good pistol, and a usable co-axial scorpion with no stupid pintel. then to quote mendoza from CE, “Fine by me.”

6

> 2535450981578803;5:
> Wait. You’d get rid of thrusters. but keep spartan charge? I honestly think that’s really stupid. I’d rather keep Thrusters and Sprint bare minimum and throw Spartan Charge out the window. Gone, no spartan charge at all.
>
> Slide is fine. (and fun with speed boosts)
> stabilize is fine.
>
> Clamber is eh. I don’t really care if it leaves or stays.
>
> Aiming with Smart-Link and Smart-Scope only have really minor differences. So I don’t really care there.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274808000461;1:
> > return the feel of gameplay closer to a style resembling the Halo we all love?
>
> And this is purely subjective. Do not assume other’s gasp subjective opinions of what “halo we love” is, Halo I love is Halo 2. Not 3 or Reach as other’s are, and “classic” so vague, that to me classic is purely Halo: CE, not 2, 3, ODST, Reach, 4 or 5 that follow. So what “we love” is so subjective that if we go back to Grueling CE, Invincible Vehicles, good pistol, and a usable co-axial scorpion with no stupid pintel. then to quote mendoza from CE, “Fine by me.”

I’d get rid of the potency of Spartan Charge, as I stated. If you remove the thruster aspect of it, it’d be more sluggish and just another method of melee. I’m not claiming to have all of this figured out, but looking at the gripes I’ve seen for Halo 5, I feel like if the entire concept of the thruster is removed, then that will adequately affect all other aspects of controls/gameplay to where there would be a sense of ease instead of continued hostility. Like I’ve said, I personally have no gripes with the current system, but I know/have read of many people who do.

I know that what people want from the game is subjective. I personally prefer Halo 2 over the other games, while others have enjoyed others more. Some might even enjoy 5 the most. But just b/c it is subjective does not mean that 343i should just automatically ignore these subjective opinions. What I was saying in what you quoted is that few people disliked Halo 2 or 3 outright the same way they do Halo 5 (not that even the majority dislike it, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to say it’s disliked a bit more than the older games). I don’t think Halo is dead and past the point of redemption, but I also don’t believe that it’s stronger than ever. There has to be some formula for building it back up to be as strong as it once was. What that is, I’m not positive, but that’s what I’m desiring.

Thanks for your comments.

7

I disagree with most of it thrusters are fine the only problem is that one person glitching out of map with it spartan charge needs to be nerfed or removed and slide doesn’t effect anything really ground pound is fine and as someone else said helps get away and destroy damaged vehicles this is just my opinion though

8

> 2533274808000461;4:
> > 2535429593088083;2:
> > …
>
>
>
> > 2535453495391865;3:
> > no
>
> What are you responding to? Please respond specifically to what you disagree with, and why.

I’m responding “no” to everything you said. Thrusters, spartan charge, ground pound, power slide, smart scope, stabilise and clamber – all these things make Halo 5 PvP so much more fun and engaging. And to remove these to slow down the game? No, no, and no. There are plenty of slow games without these features already. Play Halo 3 without any of these if you want the super slow feel! It’s back compat now! Or Destiny 2 for something newer and slightly faster (they have perma-sprint though and smart scope ha!). Halo 5 is the best PvP at the moment in many ways due to these features you are proposing to remove. So “no”. :slight_smile:

EDIT: Oh, and as for spartan charge, nothing is more satisfying than dodging the charge on the edge of a map so that your opponent falls off with a nice suicide; and equally few things are more infuriating if the sides are reversed. Or take a mid-air ground pound. Silly moments and fails like this makes Halo 5 PvP so great.

9

> 2533274808000461;1:
> I know a lot of people hate on a lot of (or all of) the Spartan Abilities in H5G. While I myself don’t have any personal qualms with them, I can understand people’s gripes. With that said, I think there’s a solution to keep the game “evolved” and not completely backtracking, while also giving a feel of return to a more simplistic time of Halo.
>
> Here’s my idea (if you couldn’t guess from the title):
>
> Remove thrusters (gasp!)
> This isn’t as cut and dry as it seems at first glance, however. The removal of the thruster from Spartans would change the entire platform of the Spartan Abilities. Consider these changes:
> - Thruster pack: removed entirely - Spartan charge: majorly nerfed, while still limited to use only during sprint - Sprint: either A) speed will not be maintained indefinitely, instead, limited bursts of (nerfed) speed; or B) increase base movement speed (slightly) - Ground Pount: removed entirely - Slide: removed entirely - Smart Scope: replaced with HUD viewing (canonical!), possibly switch ADS (no advantage, no magnifier) if descoped (not sure about this at all, just throwing it out there) - Stabilize: removed entirely - Clamber: animation slowed to encourage more standard (crouch) jumping (only if map design priority isn’t for clamber use)The point of this is to make Spartan Abilities (as the name suggests) only revolving around what the Spartan, independent of their armor, could do.
>
> This would help clear one button entirely (for use possibly w/ equipment, dual-wielding, or some new feature), plus the button combinations involving the thruster. This would slow down the gameplay while still allowing the player feel like a Spartan with a great many inherent capabilities.
>
> What do you guys think? Other than the ones clamoring for just a remake of Halo 3, how do we/343i try and keep the feel of players being Spartans, while also attempting to return the feel of gameplay closer to a style resembling the Halo we all love?

Spartan charge is an abomination and at least for me ruined H5. Thrusters also contributed to that. I’ve said 1000 times. the more complicated the movement and abilties, the higher the skill gap, the LESS the casuals(largest population) is not going to want to play. Go ask Cliffy B how “Lawbreakers” is doing. i’ll save you the time, its not doing well. The game is simply too fast and to complicated for the larger casual gamer player demographic. Although H5 is obviously not that fast and complicated it is certainly more fast a complicated compared to every other halo title. Yeah, H5 has had a dedicated hardcore player base, but at what cost? Last I heard H5 sales were nowhere near that of H4. Thats very telling considering many on this board hate H4. Additionally look at COD:IW. although it sold well compared to a lot of games, compared to other COD games it didn’t do well at all, hence the return to “Boots on the ground”. Now it looks like yet again COD well sell thru the roof simply because it simple and easy to pickup and play. 343 could learn from that, but they won’t.

10

I would get rid of spartan charge and sprint, make base movement way faster but keep thrusters and everything else and you basically have a modern Halo game that can also appeal to fans of the old ones I think.

11

> 2535453495391865;8:
> > 2533274808000461;4:
> > > 2535429593088083;2:
> > > …
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2535453495391865;3:
> > > no
> >
> > What are you responding to? Please respond specifically to what you disagree with, and why.
>
> I’m responding “no” to everything you said. Thrusters, spartan charge, ground pound, power slide, smart scope, stabilise and clamber – all these things make Halo 5 PvP so much more fun and engaging. And to remove these to slow down the game? No, no, and no. There are plenty of slow games without these features already. Play Halo 3 without any of these if you want the super slow feel! It’s back compat now! Or Destiny 2 for something newer and slightly faster (they have perma-sprint though and smart scope ha!). Halo 5 is the best PvP at the moment in many ways due to these features you are proposing to remove. So “no”. :slight_smile:
>
> EDIT: Oh, and as for spartan charge, nothing is more satisfying than dodging the charge on the edge of a map so that your opponent falls off with a nice suicide; and equally few things are more infuriating if the sides are reversed. Or take a mid-air ground pound. Silly moments and fails like this makes Halo 5 PvP so great.

I get exactly what you’re saying, and I personally agree (that’s why I’d love for them to, minimally, be options somehow in Custom Games), but then there are plenty of people who have opinions like this as well:

> 2533274825101441;9:
> > 2533274808000461;1:
> > I know a lot of people hate on a lot of (or all of) the Spartan Abilities in H5G. While I myself don’t have any personal qualms with them, I can understand people’s gripes. With that said, I think there’s a solution to keep the game “evolved” and not completely backtracking, while also giving a feel of return to a more simplistic time of Halo.
> >
> > Here’s my idea (if you couldn’t guess from the title):
> >
> > Remove thrusters (gasp!)
> > This isn’t as cut and dry as it seems at first glance, however. The removal of the thruster from Spartans would change the entire platform of the Spartan Abilities. Consider these changes:
> > - Thruster pack: removed entirely - Spartan charge: majorly nerfed, while still limited to use only during sprint - Sprint: either A) speed will not be maintained indefinitely, instead, limited bursts of (nerfed) speed; or B) increase base movement speed (slightly) - Ground Pount: removed entirely - Slide: removed entirely - Smart Scope: replaced with HUD viewing (canonical!), possibly switch ADS (no advantage, no magnifier) if descoped (not sure about this at all, just throwing it out there) - Stabilize: removed entirely - Clamber: animation slowed to encourage more standard (crouch) jumping (only if map design priority isn’t for clamber use)The point of this is to make Spartan Abilities (as the name suggests) only revolving around what the Spartan, independent of their armor, could do.
> >
> > This would help clear one button entirely (for use possibly w/ equipment, dual-wielding, or some new feature), plus the button combinations involving the thruster. This would slow down the gameplay while still allowing the player feel like a Spartan with a great many inherent capabilities.
> >
> > What do you guys think? Other than the ones clamoring for just a remake of Halo 3, how do we/343i try and keep the feel of players being Spartans, while also attempting to return the feel of gameplay closer to a style resembling the Halo we all love?
>
> Spartan charge is an abomination and at least for me ruined H5. Thrusters also contributed to that. I’ve said 1000 times. the more complicated the movement and abilties, the higher the skill gap, the LESS the casuals(largest population) is not going to want to play. Go ask Cliffy B how “Lawbreakers” is doing. i’ll save you the time, its not doing well. The game is simply too fast and to complicated for the larger casual gamer player demographic. Although H5 is obviously not that fast and complicated it is certainly more fast a complicated compared to every other halo title. Yeah, H5 has had a dedicated hardcore player base, but at what cost? Last I heard H5 sales were nowhere near that of H4. Thats very telling considering many on this board hate H4. Additionally look at COD:IW. although it sold well compared to a lot of games, compared to other COD games it didn’t do well at all, hence the return to “Boots on the ground”. Now it looks like yet again COD well sell thru the roof simply because it simple and easy to pickup and play. 343 could learn from that, but they won’t.

As much as you or I may entirely want the Spartan Abilities to remain as-is, or instead be removed entirely, we can’t wish away the fact that there’s a divide amongst Halo fans, typically when talking in extremes. That’s why I was proposing some form of compromise; a way to keep some of the more basic features, tone down some others, and still yet remove others that seem to be too much change. That’s not to say that my proposal is perfect, or even altogether sound, but the principle behind why it was made I think is one worthy of at least our consideration. Even if it isn’t the aspect of thrusters (and their influence) being removed, how can there be compromise to give fans of the former games (and less of the latter) a feel of the former gameplay, while also providing some “evolved” aspects of the gameplay that other players have grown to enjoy (or possibly even prefer over the older titles)? How can we bridge what seems to be a generational gap without a culture shock one way or the other?

Ultimately, I know that there is no way to please everyone. I also realize that there are typically two major camps of fans: those of the older Halo games (CE, 2, 3), and those of the more modern era (Reach, 4, 5G), and then those few/more silent who enjoy both equally. I think it would be a disservice to pander fully to only one camp of fans (irregardless of which it were), and so a compromise seems like the best and least-harmful solution. Anything else is completely alienating entire sects of fans. Give us the best of both, and remove the worst of both.

EDIT: let it be known that while I sit more in the middle of this discussion (about which “camp” I’m in), I completely respect and can understand others’ positions for their preferences. I see the strengths and validations of both sides, which is why I find it hard to just unequivocally cast aside one side or the other.

12

> 2533274808000461;4:
> > 2535429593088083;2:
> > With the exception of Spartan Charge, I really do enjoy the Spartan Abilities. The Ground Pound is surprisingly versatile as you can launch a surprise attack, finish off a damaged vehicle, traverse across a map in a single bound, or make a hasty escape.
>
> I agree that the Spartan Abilities (even just as they are in H5G) are extremely enjoyable. I think, however, because they are so divisive, they should be maintained/modified to be add-ons for custom games. I’m not sure how to implement this, but I feel like there has to be a balance, or we’re just doomed to continue walking down the path of dissatisfied “fans”.
>
>
> > 2535453495391865;3:
> > no
>
> What are you responding to? Please respond specifically to what you disagree with, and why.

I completely agree with this point.

13

I don’t support this idea. I can’t accept a compromise that retains Clamber, Spartan Charge, or Sprint. In fact, the maximal set of Spartan Abilities I might be able to live with would be Stabilizer, Ground Pound, and Thruster Pack. With that said, I’m strongly against any compromise that retains any collection of Spartan Abilities, because they all represent what I consider to be bad design, and I firmly believe that every Halo player could enjoy a properly made Halo game with a much simpler set of movement mechanics. And ultimately, I have very little interest in a Halo game that retains any Spartan Abilities, so I really have nothing to lose, so I might as well not accept any compromises.

> 2533274825101441;9:
> I’ve said 1000 times. the more complicated the movement and abilties, the higher the skill gap, the LESS the casuals(largest population) is not going to want to play.

I guess that depends on what you mean by “skill gap”. While it’s true that a game with more complex set of mechanics may be more difficult for new players to get into, the more complex mechanics don’t necessarily create any more interesting gameplay at the higher level than a game with a fairly simple set of mechanics. It may even be the case that giving the player too much freedom in what they can actually makes the game less interesting at a higher level compared to some game that restricts the player more.

So, really, complicated movement mechanics help no one Players of all levels benefit from simplicity, while high level players need depth, which is not an automatic consequence of complexity. Good game design is all about creating a deep experience from a simple set of rules (i.e., mechanics). And that’s largely independent of who we’re targeting the game at—with the only caveat being that players with limited capabilities, such as very young children, may require extremly simple mechanics at the expense of depth.

14

I think the H3 playlist is showing again that you don’t need abilities to feel like a Spartan. All it needs is a couple tweaks with movement/shields and it would be good to go. The jump height is a good example. It’s a lot higher than H5 (I can jump high because I’m a Spartan, woo.) and negates the need for clamber.

15

Spartan Charge and Smart aim are my biggest issues but, Thrusting is pretty cool probably the best part of h5 for me. sprint sliding and thrusters add to the coolness in halo 5

16

I like the mobility Spartan abilities and hate offensive ones. If Spartan charge died in a fire I’d be as giddy as a school girl.

17

The kinestetics of H5 are my favourites of the series, but I do know that there are a ton o people thet would like spartan abilities to be removed entierly so this sounds like a fair middle ground.

What about removing sprint while increasing drasticly the movement speed but with thrusters?

18

IMO opposite is better. Remove everything but keep thrusters. No need for sprint when we can simply go back to classic map design and buff base speed.

Sprint is so 2010. Its irrelevant in FPS games now. It only makes sense for games like battlefield or destiny with open maps.

19

> 2533274920741579;10:
> I would get rid of spartan charge and sprint, make base movement way faster but keep thrusters and everything else and you basically have a modern Halo game that can also appeal to fans of the old ones I think.

Few problems here though.

Keeping clamber= removing skill jumps, and having maps designed around it.
Keeping ADS= advantage for aiming (more accuracy). Should go back to classic zoom+descope.
Ground pound/slide/stabilizer= These are fine as variety options or for customs, but not arena. Create too many problems for map design.

These abilities dont belong in Halo. A dead giveaway is the fact that 343 had to redesign the whole game form the ground up around them. All they had to do was keep the classic formula and innovate around it. The classic formula NEVER failed. Not directing this at you, more at the people who are in favour of armor abilities.

20

I honestly could go either way, I enjoy all the halo play styles (though I might prefer them all a little more than odst) and wouldn’t mind them being kept or removed, but I would prefer the scopes go back to how they use to be and stabilizing be removed. I also like your suggestion for sprint, the base movement has been slowed over the years just to make sprint look better and it should definitely be brought back up.