The reason competitive players are angry at 343.

Games Other Halo
1

First of all, we’ve been completely disregarded since after the release of Halo 3. Bungie didn’t even make an attempt to satisfy us with Reach, and from the looks of things, Halo 4 will be no different. Oh yeah, and it’s been 5 friggin years. It’s not like we’re just impatient or something.

Also, we know that if Halo 4 is competitive, then casuals will love it too. However, if it’s casual, competitive players can’t enjoy it to the fullest. It makes absolutely no sense to cater to casuals. If you consider yourself to be a casual, and you enjoyed Halo 1, 2, and 3, you would without a doubt enjoy a competitive Halo 4, even if you’re only going to play casually. It’s very frustrating that 343 is choosing to cater to casuals after it was made abundantly clear in Reach that this is never a good idea.

Lastly, it’s very clear that 343 is going to split the community, again. In fact, it’s already split. They have to make “Classic” playlists and “New” playlists because they made a game that’s not competitive enough for the competitive community. In the two most successful MP Halo games (2/3), gameplay was identical across every playlist, and these games were made to be competitive. Everyone enjoyed it, and nobody ever complained that those games were unable to satisfy their competitive (or casual) needs. These games were equally enjoyed by hardcore and casual fans alike. This is most certainly not a coincidence.

If 343 chooses not to make changes, fine. Mark my words though, Halo 4, and every Halo game following it, will flop if changes aren’t made. It’s 343’s choice. They’ll either do the right thing or kill Halo for everyone.

Nothing is set in stone though. We have 20 seconds of gameplay, and if 343 decides to get rid of sprint, perks, armor effects in-game, and whatever other inconsistencies they’ve decided to cram into Halo 4, it’s not too late. That’s the most frustrating part though: They probably won’t.

2

Im in the middle of both Competative, and Casual play, due to me playing by a simple phrase.

’ You can take all the first place spots you want. But what happens when you force everyone else to ragequit out, and you have no one to share it with? Give the buggers a chance, make it fun for both ends. ’

3

calm down ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) it all gon be k

4

> ’ You can take all the first place spots you want. But what happens when you force everyone else to ragequit out, and you have no one to share it with? Give the buggers a chance, make it fun for both ends. ’

>Implying that if a game is competitive, it’s not fun for both ends, and if someone is losing, they automatically quit out.

5

I would also add that some people are not angry; they just don’t care altogether but still share these concerns. The idea that casual=fun=~competitive=random,unpredictable,undifferentiated,slow is the great plague of Reach (and 3 to a lesser extent). A lot of would-be competitive players just don’t care enough about the franchise anymore to vent on the forums. There are other titles to play.

The Sword is a great example. It was tremendously useful in competitive matches but apparently Bungie thought it created an excess tonnage of fun and needed to be balanced, making it useful to no one. Who plays Sword matches anymore? It’s slow as molasses. The Plasma Pistol was another. It was one of the best combos (weapon combinations is something that doesn’t exist in Halo anymore, you have a DMR and power secondary and that’s it) but it’s not even fun to do knockout matches with because of how neutered it is.

To whom is the sticky launcher fun? To whom is the focus rifle enjoyable? And which group enjoys excess aim acceleration rendering precise aiming impossible? Who squeals with delight when the SR spawns with one clip and no ammo on the map? All of the changes that were made are detrimental to fun and competition alike.

6

> > ’ You can take all the first place spots you want. But what happens when you force everyone else to ragequit out, and you have no one to share it with? Give the buggers a chance, make it fun for both ends. ’
>
> >Implying that if a game is competitive, it’s not fun for both ends, and if someone is losing, they automatically quit out.

Much of the time, it is that situation. I am not here to argue, simply here to state my opinion. :slight_smile: MInd you, Im not here to disprove yours either.

7

Competitive?

You mean narrow minded players, not competitive

8

> Competitive?
>
> You mean narrow minded players, not competitive

about as ignorant as it gets

9

> Competitive?
>
> You mean narrow minded players, not competitive

I’m assuming you didn’t read the OP, or you’re butthurt about the OP and have nothing to say to it, so you’re calling names instead. I could just as easily call all casual players narrow minded, but I like to actually formulate arguments as to why I think the way I do.

10

> > Competitive?
> >
> > You mean narrow minded players, not competitive
>
> I’m assuming you didn’t read the OP, or you’re butthurt about the OP and have nothing to say to it, so you’re calling names instead. I could just as easily call all casual players narrow minded, but I like to actually formulate arguments as to why I think the way I do.

No, what you label “casual” players are welcome to change.

What you label “competitive” players only like Halo 2 or Halo 3 style gameplay and nothing else. If thats not narrow minded, then the world must be made out of cheese.

Also you obviously dont know the definition of ignorant

11

> > > Competitive?
> > >
> > > You mean narrow minded players, not competitive
> >
> > I’m assuming you didn’t read the OP, or you’re butthurt about the OP and have nothing to say to it, so you’re calling names instead. I could just as easily call all casual players narrow minded, but I like to actually formulate arguments as to why I think the way I do.
>
> No, what you label “casual” players are welcome to change.
>
> What you label “competitive” players only like Halo 2 or Halo 3 style gameplay and nothing else. If thats not narrow minded, then the world must be made out of cheese.
>
> Also you obviously dont know the definition of ignorant

Competetive players like games where there are non random elements. Which in this case both Reach, and halo 4 seems to have.

12

> > > Competitive?
> > >
> > > You mean narrow minded players, not competitive
> >
> > I’m assuming you didn’t read the OP, or you’re butthurt about the OP and have nothing to say to it, so you’re calling names instead. I could just as easily call all casual players narrow minded, but I like to actually formulate arguments as to why I think the way I do.
>
> No, what you label “casual” players are welcome to change.
>
> What you label “competitive” players only like Halo 2 or Halo 3 style gameplay and nothing else. If thats not narrow minded, then the world must be made out of cheese.
>
> Also you obviously dont know the definition of ignorant

The Aged Gouda continent is my favorite. To bad I live on the American Cheddar one.

13

> Competitive?
>
> You mean narrow minded players, not competitive

Hypocrisy at it’s finest, right here ladies and gentlemen.

14

> > > Competitive?
> > >
> > > You mean narrow minded players, not competitive
> >
> > I’m assuming you didn’t read the OP, or you’re butthurt about the OP and have nothing to say to it, so you’re calling names instead. I could just as easily call all casual players narrow minded, but I like to actually formulate arguments as to why I think the way I do.
>
> No, what you label “casual” players are welcome to change.
>
> What you label “competitive” players only like Halo 2 or Halo 3 style gameplay and nothing else. If thats not narrow minded, then the world must be made out of cheese.
>
> Also you obviously dont know the definition of ignorant

People who like Halo 2 and Halo and (questionably) Halo 3 also tend to enjoy the lively core mechanics in other FPS games. Quake, Unreal Tournament, R6, CoD, BF3, Counter-Strike, GoldenEye, and Perfect Dark are some more popular ones over the years. I’m sure Resistance and Crysis are similar. So it’s not just those two games. All these games were competitive and allowed for great fun and fooling around besides that. Reach is very different from every other game in existence in very, very, very bad ways in terms of weapon specialization and speed.

15

The playerbase was much smaller with Halo 2 and 3. The majority of players that played WERE competitive.

My problem is not that you guys have a grievance, it’s that you want the ENTIRE game to be ONE way, and no co-existance at all. You’ve got to realize that this fracture in the fanbase is here to stay. There must be compromise.

You’ll get your competitive lists with MLG and Classic.

Be happy with that.

16

> The playerbase was much smaller with Halo 2 and 3. The majority of players that played WERE competitive.
>
> My problem is not that you guys have a grievance, it’s that you want the ENTIRE game to be ONE way, and no co-existance at all. You’ve got to realize that this fracture in the fanbase is here to stay. There must be compromise.
>
> You’ll get your competitive lists with MLG and Classic.
>
> Be happy with that.

I am a competitive player, but I am pretty positive about Halo 4 because it will never be as bad as Reach, which I did still enjoy even though it wasn’t a very good Halo title but Halo 4 will be a lot better, well… that’s my guess on Halo 4.

17

> The playerbase was much smaller with Halo 2 and 3. The majority of players that played WERE competitive.
>
> My problem is not that you guys have a grievance, it’s that you want the ENTIRE game to be ONE way, and no co-existance at all. You’ve got to realize that this fracture in the fanbase is here to stay. There must be compromise.
>
> You’ll get your competitive lists with MLG and Classic.
>
> Be happy with that.

How would you feel if 343 made the game, the entire game had no perks/loadouts/AA’s except for a few playlists. What if 343 listened to parts of the community and made the game go back to it’s roots with classical Halos and this is how it ended up being? Would you be happy with just those few playlists? I’m not trying to sound mean, I’m just asking

18

> No, what you label “casual” players are welcome to change.
>
> What you label “competitive” players only like Halo 2 or Halo 3 style gameplay and nothing else. If thats not narrow minded, then the world must be made out of cheese.
>
> Also you obviously dont know the definition of ignorant

I think he’s right, if you believe competitive players, i.e good players, want H3 or H2 again. There’s a difference between welcoming changes and welcoming good changes, obviously you only want flash because it’s “cool” or whatever, I want a solid Halo game.

And by the way, CE>every other Halo combined. Don’t insult it by stating that good players find it to be worse than H2 and/or h3.

19

I don’t understand “competitive” players… they seem to complain sbout change and giving less skilled foes a chance at winning. I saw a complaint about the sniper not having enough ammo- if you’re in a team slayer game and your team has a lot more skill than the other team, than having less ammo in the sniper when you pick it up should make the game more fun for everyone.

I like rolling the dice. I like bloom- not knowing who will win, it gives a greater rush. I would say in the vast majority of the battles though the more skilled player will win.

The lame BR fights of Halo 3 got old so quick to me- whomever pulled the trigger first won.

20

> I don’t understand “competitive” players… they seem to complain sbout change and giving less skilled foes a chance at winning. I saw a complaint about the sniper not having enough ammo- if you’re in a team slayer game and your team has a lot more skill than the other team, than having less ammo in the sniper when you pick it up should make the game more fun for everyone.
>
> I like rolling the dice. I like bloom- not knowing who will win, it gives a greater rush. I would say in the vast majority of the battles though the more skilled player will win.
>
> The lame BR fights of Halo 3 got old so quick to me- whomever pulled the trigger first won.

Your ideals could not be more counter productive to a competitive Halo.

What I do not get is there are already games that fill your niche. I am curious, why you would want to change a traditionally competitive game into a random casual game? What did you find attractive about Halo multiplayer in 1-3?