The real solution to frags "mini nukes"

I have come to realize while playing Reach the thing Bungie should have done and 343 should do with frag nades is increase the range not the damage.
The Halo 3 frags were good but they never really help when they are like 5 feet away.
I came to this conclusion when I was playing Reach.
I dropped a guy’s shields and then threw a last second grenade before dying. The grenande landed about 6-7 feet away from him but he didnt die and i dont think he took damage because no blood fell from him which is the usual indicator of damage.

I think the damage is too high but the range is too low. example:
One DMR shot and then a frag will kill you.
That is complete -Yoink-!

So 343 I say you should decrease the damage and increase the range in Halo 4,CE remake, whatever you are doing.

If you support this, please use this as some sort of petition and agree in the comments.

> I have come to realize while playing Reach the thing Bungie should have done and 343 should do with frag nades is increase the range not the damage.
> The Halo 3 frags were good but they never really help when they are like 5 feet away.
> I came to this conclusion when I was playing Reach.
> I dropped a guy’s shields and then threw a last second grenade before dying. The grenande landed about 6-7 feet away from him but he didnt die and i dont think he took damage because no blood fell from him which is the usual indicator of damage.
>
> I think the damage is too high but the range is too low. example:
> One DMR shot and then a frag will kill you.
> That is complete Yoink!!
>
> So 343 I say you should decrease the damage and increase the range in Halo 4,CE remake, whatever you are doing.
>
> If you support this, please use this as some sort of petition and agree in the comments.

To be honest I thought Halo 3 grenades were the best out of the series. When you threw a sticky on them it stuck, Frags were not nukes and the bounce was perfect. Reach frags stick in the ground at times and are covered in glue. And to top it off they are way to strong. I also disagree about the radius I feel that reach grenades have a huge range but just my opinion.

I totally agree that 1 DMR shot and a nade should not kill you.

I don’t have a problem with 'nades. But I would like to have Evade as a perma-ability where switch 'nades is and put that on the d-pad.
That way, everyone can jump outta da way of everything with proper timing and awareness.

I personally didn’t have a problem with the grenades in the Beta. They were the best. Much like CE.

> > I have come to realize while playing Reach the thing Bungie should have done and 343 should do with frag nades is increase the range not the damage.
> > The Halo 3 frags were good but they never really help when they are like 5 feet away.
> > I came to this conclusion when I was playing Reach.
> > I dropped a guy’s shields and then threw a last second grenade before dying. The grenande landed about 6-7 feet away from him but he didnt die and i dont think he took damage because no blood fell from him which is the usual indicator of damage.
> >
> > I think the damage is too high but the range is too low. example:
> > One DMR shot and then a frag will kill you.
> > That is complete Yoink!!
> >
> > So 343 I say you should decrease the damage and increase the range in Halo 4,CE remake, whatever you are doing.
> >
> > If you support this, please use this as some sort of petition and agree in the comments.
>
>
>
> To be honest I thought Halo 3 grenades were the best out of the series. When you threw a sticky on them it stuck, Frags were not nukes and the bounce was perfect. Reach frags stick in the ground at times and are covered in glue. And to top it off they are way to strong. I also disagree about the radius I feel that reach grenades have a huge range but just my opinion.
>
> I totally agree that 1 DMR shot and a nade should not kill you.

i agree with pharm. the area of effect of grenades in reach is HUGE. its essentially impossible to miss if you practice using them even a little bit.

this, paired with slow player speed across almost every playlist makes the game turn into a first person grenadier very fast.

grenades shouldnt be able to straight up kill you from full shields, if you have more than half health as well. in reach they can, which is frustrating to say the very least.

i like the halo 3 grenades the best.

things we need for grenades in my opinion are as follows
-a balanced range, shorter than the range in reach by a little bit
-less extreme damage, 1 grenade shouldnt kill you from 80% shields and full health, and it shouldnt kill you from 100% shields and more than 50% health.
-grenades that dont stick to the floor. pharm is right, they basically have glue on them in reach. lol
-grenades that bounce super well, this is one of the things that makes halo grenades unique, the ability to use them in a variety of different ways, like bouncing them around corners, and off of the floor, etc.
-the ability to dodge them, or dodge some of the damage at least. this can be done by making the damage on them a bit less if you jump before they explode, or simply make the damage in the center of the blast more than on the sides (but still not extreme, see point 2 of this list).

> > > I have come to realize while playing Reach the thing Bungie should have done and 343 should do with frag nades is increase the range not the damage.
> > > The Halo 3 frags were good but they never really help when they are like 5 feet away.
> > > I came to this conclusion when I was playing Reach.
> > > I dropped a guy’s shields and then threw a last second grenade before dying. The grenande landed about 6-7 feet away from him but he didnt die and i dont think he took damage because no blood fell from him which is the usual indicator of damage.
> > >
> > > I think the damage is too high but the range is too low. example:
> > > One DMR shot and then a frag will kill you.
> > > That is complete Yoink!!
> > >
> > > So 343 I say you should decrease the damage and increase the range in Halo 4,CE remake, whatever you are doing.
> > >
> > > If you support this, please use this as some sort of petition and agree in the comments.
> >
> >
> >
> > To be honest I thought Halo 3 grenades were the best out of the series. When you threw a sticky on them it stuck, Frags were not nukes and the bounce was perfect. Reach frags stick in the ground at times and are covered in glue. And to top it off they are way to strong. I also disagree about the radius I feel that reach grenades have a huge range but just my opinion.
> >
> > I totally agree that 1 DMR shot and a nade should not kill you.
>
> i agree with pharm. the area of effect of grenades in reach is HUGE. its essentially impossible to miss if you practice using them even a little bit.
>
> this, paired with slow player speed across almost every playlist makes the game turn into a first person grenadier very fast.
>
> grenades shouldnt be able to straight up kill you from full shields, if you have more than half health as well. in reach they can, which is frustrating to say the very least.
>
> i like the halo 3 grenades the best.
>
> things we need for grenades in my opinion are as follows
> -a balanced range, shorter than the range in reach by a little bit
> -less extreme damage, 1 grenade shouldnt kill you from 80% shields and full health, and it shouldnt kill you from 100% shields and more than 50% health.
> -grenades that dont stick to the floor. pharm is right, they basically have glue on them in reach. lol
> -grenades that bounce super well, this is one of the things that makes halo grenades unique, the ability to use them in a variety of different ways, like bouncing them around corners, and off of the floor, etc.
> -the ability to dodge them, or dodge some of the damage at least. this can be done by making the damage on them a bit less if you jump before they explode, or simply make the damage in the center of the blast more than on the sides (but still not extreme, see point 2 of this list).

I don’t have a problem with them. I do think it’s hilarious though, that everyone complains about them and then they come out with a classic playlist where the grenades are 100x worse and everyone is like “this is how Reach was meant to be!” lol

> > > > I have come to realize while playing Reach the thing Bungie should have done and 343 should do with frag nades is increase the range not the damage.
> > > > The Halo 3 frags were good but they never really help when they are like 5 feet away.
> > > > I came to this conclusion when I was playing Reach.
> > > > I dropped a guy’s shields and then threw a last second grenade before dying. The grenande landed about 6-7 feet away from him but he didnt die and i dont think he took damage because no blood fell from him which is the usual indicator of damage.
> > > >
> > > > I think the damage is too high but the range is too low. example:
> > > > One DMR shot and then a frag will kill you.
> > > > That is complete Yoink!!
> > > >
> > > > So 343 I say you should decrease the damage and increase the range in Halo 4,CE remake, whatever you are doing.
> > > >
> > > > If you support this, please use this as some sort of petition and agree in the comments.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To be honest I thought Halo 3 grenades were the best out of the series. When you threw a sticky on them it stuck, Frags were not nukes and the bounce was perfect. Reach frags stick in the ground at times and are covered in glue. And to top it off they are way to strong. I also disagree about the radius I feel that reach grenades have a huge range but just my opinion.
> > >
> > > I totally agree that 1 DMR shot and a nade should not kill you.
> >
> > i agree with pharm. the area of effect of grenades in reach is HUGE. its essentially impossible to miss if you practice using them even a little bit.
> >
> > this, paired with slow player speed across almost every playlist makes the game turn into a first person grenadier very fast.
> >
> > grenades shouldnt be able to straight up kill you from full shields, if you have more than half health as well. in reach they can, which is frustrating to say the very least.
> >
> > i like the halo 3 grenades the best.
> >
> > things we need for grenades in my opinion are as follows
> > -a balanced range, shorter than the range in reach by a little bit
> > -less extreme damage, 1 grenade shouldnt kill you from 80% shields and full health, and it shouldnt kill you from 100% shields and more than 50% health.
> > -grenades that dont stick to the floor. pharm is right, they basically have glue on them in reach. lol
> > -grenades that bounce super well, this is one of the things that makes halo grenades unique, the ability to use them in a variety of different ways, like bouncing them around corners, and off of the floor, etc.
> > -the ability to dodge them, or dodge some of the damage at least. this can be done by making the damage on them a bit less if you jump before they explode, or simply make the damage in the center of the blast more than on the sides (but still not extreme, see point 2 of this list).
>
> I don’t have a problem with them. I do think it’s hilarious though, that everyone complains about them and then they come out with a classic playlist where the grenades are 100x worse and everyone is like “this is how Reach was meant to be!” lol

i dont think that way. halo has never been a throw a grenade then shoot them once before it explodes game. maybe the other way around, but this way is entirely too easy. you dont even have to get a headshot this way lol.

the real problem is they cant turn off the horrible game mechanics in the classic playlist. no bleed melees will stay, and will feel horrible regardless of settings. now, instead of the intuitive 2 melee kills WITH BLEED melees, you get the 3 melee kill, which just feels horrible. its like a derp fest.

i derp him, he derps me, i derp him, he derps me, i derp him, he dies.

sure this never really happens, but i strongly feel that game mechanics should work by themselves before being integrated with the other mechanics.

good examples of this epic failing are the DMR and grenades.

grenades used to be a tool to AID in players getting kills. now they are better than any primary weapon spawn. if you dont have a power weapon, they are the first thing you use damn near every time. why? because not only will they STRAIGHT UP KILL PEOPLE, they are damn near impossible to miss with (they stick to the ground for gods sake lol). grenades are a good example of game mechanics NOT working with other things removed.

the best example of this is the DMR, however. where at any range up until mid range spamming is optimal, effectively making the vast majority of 1v1 DMR encounters A COIN FLIP.

halo reach is just terrible across the board. the classic playlist is a nice refresher, but the bad game mechanics are still present.

Yeah I agree that Halo 3 nades were the best.

Bungie claimed to follow the “If it aint broke dont fix it” policy buy I think the followed the “If it works, break it policy”
EX:
Vehicle combat: Snipers are anti vehicular weapons now. NOBODY wanted that! H3 vehicles were perfect then they had to go and break them in Reach.

Nades: no one complained about H3 nades. But they had to break em in Reach.

Mobility: No one asked for slower and weaker spartans.

Melee: What the hell is melee without bleedthrough.

I have to add to the last post: perhaps a game developer with many tools used to collect data has a better understanding of what is broken by design and what is or isn’t OPed within the player community. Some people complain, if their complaints are warranted by the data, things change (most likely, unless the change ends up making things worse).

Remember, frags do 1 bar of damage less in Reach than in Halo3 (unless you’re fragging your teammate… then it can be an insta-betrayal). The splash zone is larger but the damage is less.

> I have to add to the last post: perhaps a game developer with many tools used to collect data has a better understanding of what is broken by design and what is or isn’t OPed within the player community. Some people complain, if their complaints are warranted by the data, things change (most likely, unless the change ends up making things worse).
>
> Remember, frags do 1 bar of damage less in Reach than in Halo3 (unless you’re fragging your teammate… then it can be an insta-betrayal). The splash zone is larger but the damage is less.

ok? the damage might be less, but in halo 3 you can actually dodge grenades. in reach its damn near impossible to dodge a grenade from a good player in the vast majority of playlists.

> > I have to add to the last post: perhaps a game developer with many tools used to collect data has a better understanding of what is broken by design and what is or isn’t OPed within the player community. Some people complain, if their complaints are warranted by the data, things change (most likely, unless the change ends up making things worse).
> >
> > Remember, frags do 1 bar of damage less in Reach than in Halo3 (unless you’re fragging your teammate… then it can be an insta-betrayal). The splash zone is larger but the damage is less.
>
> ok? the damage might be less, but in halo 3 you can actually dodge grenades. in reach its damn near impossible to dodge a grenade from a good player in the vast majority of playlists.

Armor lock. Evade. That’s the whole point of these armor abilities.

> > I have come to realize while playing Reach the thing Bungie should have done and 343 should do with frag nades is increase the range not the damage.
> > The Halo 3 frags were good but they never really help when they are like 5 feet away.
> > I came to this conclusion when I was playing Reach.
> > I dropped a guy’s shields and then threw a last second grenade before dying. The grenande landed about 6-7 feet away from him but he didnt die and i dont think he took damage because no blood fell from him which is the usual indicator of damage.
> >
> > I think the damage is too high but the range is too low. example:
> > One DMR shot and then a frag will kill you.
> > That is complete Yoink!!
> >
> > So 343 I say you should decrease the damage and increase the range in Halo 4,CE remake, whatever you are doing.
> >
> > If you support this, please use this as some sort of petition and agree in the comments.
>
>
>
> To be honest I thought Halo 3 grenades were the best out of the series. When you threw a sticky on them it stuck, Frags were not nukes and the bounce was perfect. Reach frags stick in the ground at times and are covered in glue. And to top it off they are way to strong. I also disagree about the radius I feel that reach grenades have a huge range but just my opinion.
>
> I totally agree that 1 DMR shot and a nade should not kill you.

I agree with Halo 3 grenades being the best but grenades that actually stick in Halo 3? What? The plasma grenade would sometimes bounce right off the person or it would just say I stuck him and then say I missed him. The network code in Halo 3 sucked which could of been a part of it though.

Personally, I feel like Reach grenades have Halo CE power and radius, but the fuse time is sooooo short. I’m totally convinced you can’t get away from grenades in this game sometimes.

> > > I have to add to the last post: perhaps a game developer with many tools used to collect data has a better understanding of what is broken by design and what is or isn’t OPed within the player community. Some people complain, if their complaints are warranted by the data, things change (most likely, unless the change ends up making things worse).
> > >
> > > Remember, frags do 1 bar of damage less in Reach than in Halo3 (unless you’re fragging your teammate… then it can be an insta-betrayal). The splash zone is larger but the damage is less.
> >
> > ok? the damage might be less, but in halo 3 you can actually dodge grenades. in reach its damn near impossible to dodge a grenade from a good player in the vast majority of playlists.
>
> Armor lock. Evade. That’s the whole point of these armor abilities.

so when you take out the outside factors the game falls on its face?

no. you design games to have each core game mechanic work BY ITSELF, then add it to the rest of the equation to see how it blends elsewhere.

you shouldnt have to be playing a gametype that has 1 of the 3 god-tier armor abilities just so grenades arent mini nukes in it.

“well i’d like to use a different armor ability, but grenades are nukes so i have to use these”

facepalm.

It makes me laugh how people whine that an anti-personnel explosive device… really is just to effective at killing them…

…oh the irony.

It’s fine exactly the way it is, if you’re dying from frags all the time it leads me to assume that you’re someone that just charges in with no real game strategy other than “kill blue/red man”.

As has already been mentioned there are numerous armour abilities which can help you escape or dampen the effects of grenades Armour Lock, Evade, Jetpack, Drop Shield and to an extent Active Camo and Sprint can as well… so pretty much every armour ability available.

If you think there’s a problem with grenades you’re wrong, it’s your playstyle.

How to fix grenades:

Have less of them. Where there are two grenades now, have one.

> How to fix grenades:
>
> Have less of them. Where there are two grenades now, have one.

that doesnt fix anything. people will still actively seek mini nukes because they are the next best thing if you dont have a power weapon.

even if you start with 0 mini nukes, they are still mini nukes.

> It makes me laugh how people whine that an anti-personnel explosive device… really is just to effective at killing them…
>
> …oh the irony.
>
> It’s fine exactly the way it is, if you’re dying from frags all the time it leads me to assume that you’re someone that just charges in with no real game strategy other than “kill blue/red man”.
>
> As has already been mentioned there are numerous armour abilities which can help you escape or dampen the effects of grenades Armour Lock, Evade, Jetpack, Drop Shield and to an extent Active Camo and Sprint can as well… so pretty much every armour ability available.
>
> If you think there’s a problem with grenades you’re wrong, it’s your playstyle.

um. no.

grenades are mini nukes regardless of your playstyle.

also, you shouldnt have to be forced to use an armor ability just so you dont get owned by a game mechanic being terrible. mechanics should work by themselves, and, quite frankly, grenades dont.

I agree the halo 3 grenades were alot better then reaches. Reaches I feel at times may have to large of a blast radius but that may be Bungie B.S. which were all used to. But The other day I died three times from frags that were next to me. A frag shouldn’t kill you, it should knock your shield and most ur health bar but not kill u when ur completely full. Having a a frag able to kill someone at full health and shields takes away any acpect of skill. Grenades is what COD kids use to kill each other with, I pride myself on my dmr and snipe skills, even though they broke the dmr but that another topic. We should nurf grenades so that kids that didn’t stand a chance of killing u just because instead of actually firing their weapon they decided to toss a grenade!

The real solution would have been to return to the health/shield system in CE where the health and shield had equal hitpoints before the game was released

In CE health and shield both had 75 hitpoints. In Halo 2/3/Reach it is closer to 45 health and 70 shields. Because of this change damage to your shield has a much larger effect on your grenade survivability(In Reach) and melee survivability(In Halo 3) than it should.

Reach grenades and H3 melee would have been fine had the health.shield system been in place.

As it is now I would rather keep strong grenades than have them become weak H2/3 grenades.

But Plasma Grenades?

Those things are the real nukes and need to be nerfed back to H3 levels.